Stalwart Battle Sorcerer - worth it?

[Tiri]

As we put it in my group, you traded some of your ability to make the laws of reality your bitch to be able to swing a pointy metal stick. Are you happy?

You could also swing a club or a quarterstaff.

[Sir Chuckles]

As we put it in my group, you traded some of your ability to make the laws of reality your bitch to be able to swing a pointy metal stick. Are you happy?

Yes. Yes I am.

I've played a Stalwart Battle Domain Sorcerer. Made for an...interesting time as a Swiftblade. It was low-op, so the Spinning Halberd build I went with worked well.
So ultimately: there are faaaar better ways of doing what SBS tries to do. At tables where the optimization allows you to pull of ridiculous things like Minotaur Stalwart Battle Sorcerer/Swiftblade, it can be fun and contribute greatly as a beatstick.

@heavyfuel:
Would you, by your ruling that variant classes are different classes, state that Zhentarim Fighter does not qualify for Fighter feats, such as Greater Weapon Focus?

[Kazyan]

Since there's ambiguity about whether the ACFs can be combined that I wasn't aware of beforehand, I'd added a note about that to the handbook.

[Extra Anchovies]

@heavyfuel:
Would you, by your ruling that variant classes are different classes, state that Zhentarim Fighter does not qualify for Fighter feats, such as Greater Weapon Focus?

Those are sub levels, not a class variant.

[Sir Chuckles]

Those are sub levels, not a class variant.

...let's just pretend that I said "Thug Fighter" or "Any of the Dragon Mag Fighters".

[heavyfuel]

@heavyfuel:
Would you, by your ruling that variant classes are different classes, state that Zhentarim Fighter does not qualify for Fighter feats, such as Greater Weapon Focus?

...let's just pretend that I said "Thug Fighter" or "Any of the Dragon Mag Fighters".

Again, it's not a matter of how I would rule. I would rule this as ok. It's a matter that the class name isn't "Fighter", not even "Thug Fighter", it's "Thug". And despite it being a Fighter variant, if something requires X levels of "Fighter", you need, by RAW, to be a "Fighter", not a "Thug".

I understand that most DMs, myself included, ignore this rule at least most of the time. But it still needs to be taken into consideration that the DM of whoever is asking for advice might like to follow it.

[LentilNinja]

Since there's ambiguity about whether the ACFs can be combined that I wasn't aware of beforehand, I'd added a note about that to the handbook.

Oh hey my post accomplished something in someone's guide. Well don't I feel dandy

Anyway, I'm seeing some valid points for both sides. I personally am also on the side that combining ACFs and Class Variants is fair (I once played a replace-all-the-things Ranger) because no DM I know would allow a player to go Fighter 2 / Thug 2 / Corsair (Drag Mag) 2 / Bodyguard 2 / etc you get the idea. Since you wouldn't be allowed to take those, I see the variant as the same class as the original.

[CaPtMalHammer]

I really like stalwart and metamagic specialist variants for sorcerer. not sure about battle because well not something I have dealt with much. as for swiftblade etc. the build is up to you and what is allowed. I know in most my local groups webbased and dragon magazine stuff is not allowed. they tend to keep it to printed book. abjurant champion and eldritch knight are great for this type of build. I think that favored soul almost takes it though over a straight stalwart build but only just. as for stalwart. losing 1 high level spell to gain a weapon focus and 2 hp per level it great. metamagic is better in that you lose the familiar which is a hinderence anyway to gain spontaneous metamagic which is awesome for blasty goodness and even for buffing. quicken is a huge asset.