On the subject of Tarquin.

[Darth Paul]

Isn't that EXACTLY what tipped Elan off to the illusion? That they didn't do anything about Tarquin? Wouldn't that be pretty terrible story writing?

They did do something about it. Ian is leading a secret rebellion against the Vector Legion.

And at that point, Tarquin was still an active adversary. Now he is left miles behind.

This could be a years-long storyline that is resolved well after the events of the Order's story have concluded. Not to say the VL might not be reintroduced at some point- just that it's not neccesary. I personally am satisfied with Tarquin being left as he is.

[littlebum2002]

This isn't the story of "How the Order of the Stick solved every problem that came in front of them eventually" though. They may be able to deal with Tarquin and friends, but they probably aren't going to radically change the political situation in the Western Continent by themselves.

Which is why they enlisted Ian, and again, left a huge smoking Checkov's gun which would be terribly unfulfilling if we never fin out how Ian is helping to overthrow him.

They did do something about it. Ian is leading a secret rebellion against the Vector Legion.

And at that point, Tarquin was still an active adversary. Now he is left miles behind.

This could be a years-long storyline that is resolved well after the events of the Order's story have concluded. Not to say the VL might not be reintroduced at some point- just that it's not neccesary. I personally am satisfied with Tarquin being left as he is.

That's OK that you are. And I'm sure there are lots of people who have no interest in finding out what the MitD is, or what Haley "is not exactly what you would call...", but I personally don't like to see plot threads left hanging, and I think doing so is terrible storywriting. I think it is almost guaranteed that all three of these questions will be answered in-comic before it is done.


IF the scene with Ian hadn't occurred, and IF Elan hadn't pointed out how bad of an idea it was to let Tarquin keep reigning, then I would agree with you 100%. But once you introduce those elements, simply ending the story without mentioning them again and saying "oh yeah they get worked out eventually" is pretty bad writing.

[Keltest]

Which is why they enlisted Ian, and again, left a huge smoking Checkov's gun which would be terribly unfulfilling if we never fin out how Ian is helping to overthrow him.







That's OK that you are. And I'm sure there are lots of people who have no interest in finding out what the MitD is, or what Haley "is not exactly what you would call...", but I personally don't like to see plot threads left hanging, and I think doing so is terrible storywriting. I think it is almost guaranteed that all three of these questions will be answered in-comic before it is done.

That's just it. They aren't left hanging. For the moment at least, Tarquin's story is no longer the Order's story. If Rich decides to bring their paths back together some time in the future, that's his call, but there is no eminent threat to the Order by Tarquin, and so his arc is resolved. You might as well call Lord of the Rings poorly written because it doesn't explain what Tom Bombadil is, or what happened to the Elven Rings of power, or where Men's souls go when they die.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

That's just it. They aren't left hanging. For the moment at least, Tarquin's story is no longer the Order's story. If Rich decides to bring their paths back together some time in the future, that's his call, but there is no eminent threat to the Order by Tarquin, and so his arc is resolved. You might as well call Lord of the Rings poorly written because it doesn't explain what Tom Bombadil is, or what happened to the Elven Rings of power, or where Men's souls go when they die.

The thing is, those are explicitly made out to be things that are never answered (well, except the Rings, but I think it's pretty obvious that were destroyed when the One was). The events that littlebum refers to are things that have been hinted at and in at least one case is explicitly guessable. To me, it would be very unsatisfactory if things went unresolved.

[littlebum2002]

That's just it. They aren't left hanging. For the moment at least, Tarquin's story is no longer the Order's story. If Rich decides to bring their paths back together some time in the future, that's his call, but there is no eminent threat to the Order by Tarquin, and so his arc is resolved. You might as well call Lord of the Rings poorly written because it doesn't explain what Tom Bombadil is, or what happened to the Elven Rings of power, or where Men's souls go when they die.

But at no point did a character say "Man, it would be a really bad idea to not find out where the rings of power went"

A character in this comic EXPLICITLY stated that it would be entirely out of character for The Order of the Stick to let Tarquin keep reigning. Obviously, this will probably happen after the Rift issue is handled, but considering this is a story about the Order of the Stick, not the rift, it would be well within their story to do the thing they explicitly stated they HAD to do.

And yes, we are left hanging as to what the contents of Elan's letter to Ian was.

Did the LotR end when Frodo destroyed the ring? Or did they go back home and finish up all the other story arcs? Using your logic, everything after the main quest in LotR ended shouldn't have happened. We didn't need to see Aragon get crowned and married. We didn't need to see the shire get enslaved and freed. We didn't need to see Frodo's life after these events.

But we did. Why? Because those books were not about Sauron, they were about the Fellowship. So once the ring was destroyed, their story didn't end. We got to see what adventures they went on afterwards.

This story is not about Xykon or the rifts. It is about the Order of the Stick. And since one of the members explicitly stated that they would destroy Tarquin's empire after saving the world, again, it would be terrible storytelling not to show it. Just as bad as if J.R.R. Tolkien mentioned Aragon's royal heritage and not shown him getting crowned.



(FYI if you want to use an example of a book that ends after the main plotline is finished, LotR is probably one of the worst examples you can use)

[theNater]

Isn't that EXACTLY what tipped Elan off to the illusion? That they didn't do anything about Tarquin?

That was a hint, and Elan called it "weird". However, it was subordinate to the larger point of his family being irreparably screwed up and broken; the first real indication he had was Nale not trying to interfere with the wedding.

[Keltest]

That was a hint, and Elan called it "weird". However, it was subordinate to the larger point of his family being irreparably screwed up and broken; the first real indication he had was Nale not trying to interfere with the wedding.

Furthermore, it was well after the rifts had been taken care of in the dream world. After the story, Roy and co may very well go back and check up on Ian to see how he is doing. However there is nothing that says that that must be part of the story the Giant is telling right now.

[littlebum2002]

Furthermore, it was well after the rifts had been taken care of in the dream world. After the story, Roy and co may very well go back and check up on Ian to see how he is doing. However there is nothing that says that that must be part of the story the Giant is telling right now.

And nothing says that we MUST find out what the MitD is. The entire story could end with him never leaving the darkness or doing anything else relevant.

But both of those would be truly awful storytelling, which is why I'm sure Rich will do neither.

[Keltest]

And nothing says that we MUST find out what the MitD is. The entire story could end with him never leaving the darkness or doing anything else relevant.

But both of those would be truly awful storytelling, which is why I'm sure Rich will do neither.

You think its awful storytelling to have background characters doing their own thing off screen? It seemed to me that scene was resolving questions like "What happened to Ian?", not create more. This isn't Tarquin's story, no matter what he may think, and leaving the dictatorship intact with traces of rebellion stirring is perfectly fine, because this isn't about the dictatorship.

[littlebum2002]

You think its awful storytelling to have background characters doing their own thing off screen? It seemed to me that scene was resolving questions like "What happened to Ian?", not create more. This isn't Tarquin's story, no matter what he may think, and leaving the dictatorship intact with traces of rebellion stirring is perfectly fine, because this isn't about the dictatorship.

Really? You never once looked at that scene and wondered what was on the paper? Rich could have easily explained what Elan's plan was, but didn't. Why? Because he wants to keep us guessing for later. Same reason he hasn't shown the MitD yet.

Leaving the dictatorship intact is NOT fine, because Roy and Elan both made an agreement to end it. Leaving it intact would mean they broke their agreement, and then Rich would need to explain why.

This story is about Roy and Elan (and the others), and they have explicitly agreed that they will end the dictatorship, therefore that is part of this story and should be told. It is awful storytelling to set up something and never conclude it. That's why not explaining the MitD is awful storytelling, not explaining what Haley "is not exactly what you would call...." is awful storytelling, and never explaining what was on the paper is awful storytelling.

Roy and Elan both agreed that the story would not be complete without toppling the dictatorship, therefore, ending the story without toppling the dictatorship would also be awful storytelling.

[Keltest]

Really? You never once looked at that scene and wondered what was on the paper? Rich could have easily explained what Elan's plan was, but didn't. Why? Because he wants to keep us guessing for later. Same reason he hasn't shown the MitD yet.

Leaving the dictatorship intact is NOT fine, because Roy and Elan both made an agreement to end it. Leaving it intact would mean they broke their agreement, and then Rich would need to explain why.

This story is about Roy and Elan (and the others), and they have explicitly agreed that they will end the dictatorship, therefore that is part of this story and should be told.

Of course I have wondered, but never once have I thought "Rich better tell me what was on that paper, or it will ruin OOTS."

Yes, the story is about the Order, but you know what? We aren't following them throughout their every moment for the rest of their lives. We can assume they will attempt to take care of it because they said they would. The how is not a critical part of the story, as far as we have seen it, any more than the Resistance's exact plan for driving out the hobgoblins from Azure City was.

[littlebum2002]

Of course I have wondered, but never once have I thought "Rich better tell me what was on that paper, or it will ruin OOTS."

Yes, the story is about the Order, but you know what? We aren't following them throughout their every moment for the rest of their lives. We can assume they will attempt to take care of it because they said they would. The how is not a critical part of the story, as far as we have seen it, any more than the Resistance's exact plan for driving out the hobgoblins from Azure City was.

So do you think it would be perfectly acceptable to never explain who the MitD is? He's not critical to the story.

They also said they would take care of the gates, so why show that?

[Peelee]

Really? You never once looked at that scene and wondered what was on the paper? Rich could have easily explained what Elan's plan was, but didn't. Why? Because he wants to keep us guessing for later.

Just like how we didn't know what was in Marcellus Wallace's briefcase, and then found out at the end of the movie!

It was diamonds.

[LuisDantas]

My take on Tarquin is that he absolutely believes in himself - or, seeing it by the complementary perspective, he is liable to believe in his own con job.

He also has a good dramatic sense, a touch of meta-awareness, and accepts his own ways unapologetically.

For good or worse, people like that are interesting.

[Keltest]

So do you think it would be perfectly acceptable to never explain who the MitD is? He's not critical to the story.

They also said they would take care of the gates, so why show that?

The MitD is a totally different situation. He is very definitely a long-term character with his own story going on. Tarquin's story is done.

As for the gates, Rich is writing about them because that is the quest he chose to have them focus on. It is the motivator for the story. The reason that the Order is doing what theyre doing. As he has pointed out once or twice, the exact threat is arbitrary, as long as it is a motivation for the characters to do what theyre doing. Tarquin is not one of the characters anymore. His story is finished. If Rich wants to write a sequel*, that's his prerogative, but theres nothing forcing him to (I hope).

*I am being metaphorical. Sequel meaning Tarquin having a second arc with the order, not another series of books.

[Murk]

I find this discussion pretty interesting. I remember that during and shortly after the arcs of DStP according to a lot of people "the Azurites" were the main story. I saw countless of posts and threads who thought that The Resistance would be enormously plot critical, and that after resolving this little thing with the gates, the Order would go back to Azure city to fight the epic battle for liberation of slaves and reclaim Azure City.
Which didn't happen. It might, still, and I agree that Gobbotopia will be more resolved in some way, but I don't think it will ever be the focus of the Order.

The same goes for the rebellion under Tarquin. It seemed like side figures to me, showing the impact the Order has had on a region, without the Order themselves actually having to be involved. Things just running their course in the background. We might hear something about it - they might even be allies who will affect the end arc -, but I think it is more a symbolisation of consequences than an actual plot point (or hole, if not resolved). But maybe that just shows how callous I am for not really caring about those poor people

Having said that, I do think Tarquin will be featured again. We still need an epic battle against Shoulder Pad Guy.

[littlebum2002]

The MitD is a totally different situation. He is very definitely a long-term character with his own story going on. Tarquin's story is done.

As for the gates, Rich is writing about them because that is the quest he chose to have them focus on. It is the motivator for the story. The reason that the Order is doing what theyre doing. As he has pointed out once or twice, the exact threat is arbitrary, as long as it is a motivation for the characters to do what theyre doing. Tarquin is not one of the characters anymore. His story is finished. If Rich wants to write a sequel*, that's his prerogative, but theres nothing forcing him to (I hope).

*I am being metaphorical. Sequel meaning Tarquin having a second arc with the order, not another series of books.

Tarquin's story is done? Not according to Roy and Elan, who specifically said his story is NOT done until they have defeated him. If Tarquin's story was done, why was that line included?

"The fight for the gates" is as much the main plot of this story as "the quest to destroy the ring" was in LotR. And just like how that story did not end at the end of the main plot, this story almost certainly will not, either. If LotR ended after he destroyed the ring, thus ending the main plot, it would not be nearly as endearing of a story. But he did not do that, he ended up closing all the loose plot threads concerning the characters we grew to love and care about deeply.

Roy and Elan have made it a point that destroying Tarquin is a "big deal" for them, regardless of whether or not it is for you. SO maybe you don't care about Tarquin anymore, but THEY DO. Therefore, it would be entirely out of character for them to just let him keep going, they obviously have to go destroy him. And since they are the main characters, their loose plot threads should be wrapped up just like the felowship's was after the ring was destroyed.

Think about it this way. You are right, Tarquin IS irrelevant. HIS story is over. I agree with that 100%. But Elan's isn't. And Elan has made it perfectly clear that defeating Tarquin is part of HIS story. And since this story is the Order's story, then it must be shown, if only to give Elan his "happy ending".

Not letting Elan defeat his father would be just as unsatisfying as not letting Roy defeat Xykon, or Haley defeat Crystal, or V defeat/outsmart the IFCC, or Durkon defeat the HPoH. Everyone in this story has their nemesis, and just letting them run free after the story about the rifts is over just doesn't wrap everything up the way it should.

I find this discussion pretty interesting. I remember that during and shortly after the arcs of DStP according to a lot of people "the Azurites" were the main story. I saw countless of posts and threads who thought that The Resistance would be enormously plot critical, and that after resolving this little thing with the gates, the Order would go back to Azure city to fight the epic battle for liberation of slaves and reclaim Azure City.
Which didn't happen. It might, still, and I agree that Gobbotopia will be more resolved in some way, but I don't think it will ever be the focus of the Order.

The same goes for the rebellion under Tarquin. It seemed like side figures to me, showing the impact the Order has had on a region, without the Order themselves actually having to be involved. Things just running their course in the background. We might hear something about it - they might even be allies who will affect the end arc -, but I think it is more a symbolisation of consequences than an actual plot point (or hole, if not resolved). But maybe that just shows how callous I am for not really caring about those poor people

Having said that, I do think Tarquin will be featured again. We still need an epic battle against Shoulder Pad Guy.

Same thing here. It's not about TARQUIN, it's about ELAN. To him, defeating Tarquin is a very important goal, and therefore it is important to us.

The order never really had a stake in Azure City. I mean, sure they wanted to help out Paladins, and sure they wanted to defend the gate, but once all that was over, Azure City is over. No one in the Order swore an oath to go back and liberate Azure City once they defeated Xykon.

[Keltest]

Littlebum, what makes you assume that, because they plan on doing something, it MUST be shown in the story? Presumably in universe the Order are not simply going to phase out of existence once Xykon is defeated. They all have goals and ambitions beyond winning this fight. But we don't need to see Roy open a fighter college of his own, or Haley turning Greysky into a Chaotic Good utopia, or Elan finally get Banjo a girlfriend, or whatever else they may possibly want to do. Roy at least still has 60+ years of his life left, allowing for resurrection spells when necessary, but nobody is arguing that we should see every action during every single one of them.

[littlebum2002]

Littlebum, what makes you assume that, because they plan on doing something, it MUST be shown in the story? Presumably in universe the Order are not simply going to phase out of existence once Xykon is defeated. They all have goals and ambitions beyond winning this fight. But we don't need to see Roy open a fighter college of his own, or Haley turning Greysky into a Chaotic Good utopia, or Elan finally get Banjo a girlfriend, or whatever else they may possibly want to do. Roy at least still has 60+ years of his life left, allowing for resurrection spells when necessary, but nobody is arguing that we should see every action during every single one of them.

The same reason Aragon's crowning was shown in the story, the freeing of the Shire was shown in the story, and Frodo's sailing off into the sunset was shown. Because it was explained that it was of great importance to one of the main characters, and therefore it is relevant to the story, regardless of its irrelevancy to the main plot.

None of the things you mentioned were sworn to be accomplished by the characters before they are done. Defeating Tarquin was.


There are only 2 lines in this comic on which i rest my case. Otherwise, I would agree with you completely.

"What about dad's evil empire? Roy, don't you find it weird that after we beat Xykon, we just sorta didn't worry about it?"

"Elan, if we manage to defeat Xykon and the world is safe, we'll figure out something to do about your father's empires. You have my word"

[Keltest]

The same reason Aragon's crowning was shown in the story, the freeing of the Shire was shown in the story, and Frodo's sailing off into the sunset was shown. Because it was explained that it was of great importance to one of the main characters, and therefore it is relevant to the story, regardless of its irrelevancy to the main plot.

None of the things you mentioned were sworn to be accomplished by the characters before they are done. Defeating Tarquin was.

What makes you think it was irrelevant to the main plot? LOTR is as much about the journey and experiences happening to Frodo and the Fellowship as it is to dropping the ring in the volcano.

Anyway, I think youre reading way too much into that vow. Just because they say theyre going to do something, doesn't mean it will happen in-comic, and it certainly doesn't mean it *must* happen.

Edit for your edit: No, that is nothing remotely like what im suggesting. Im suggesting that it wont be shown in comic, because that is a side issue to the main plot. Something can still happen in universe if there isn't a book devoted to it.

[littlebum2002]

What makes you think it was irrelevant to the main plot? LOTR is as much about the journey and experiences happening to Frodo and the Fellowship as it is to dropping the ring in the volcano.

Anyway, I think youre reading way too much into that vow. Just because they say theyre going to do something, doesn't mean it will happen in-comic, and it certainly doesn't mean it *must* happen.

And Order of the Stick is just as much about the journey and experiences happening to the Order as it is about stopping Xykon.

If one does not care about the protagonists or antagonists and is not emotionally invested in their struggles—whether those struggles are external or internal, relevant to the MacGuffin plot or not—and all one cares about is the resolution of the MacGuffin chase, then you will almost certainly be bored with a lot of the material I'm producing. And more importantly, I won't care. The Snarl plot is part of the armature upon which I hang the characters' conflicts; it is not the whole of the story. The strip is titled The Order of the Stick, not The Chase for the Snarl or even Saving the World. Ultimately, it seems like you want the story to be about things it is not going to be about, so it's unlikely you are ever going to enjoy it.

Basically, you are arguing that Rich should do exactly what he explicitly said he will not do: make the story solely about the Chase for the Gates.

[Keltest]

And Order of the Stick is just as much about the journey and experiences happening to the Order as it is about stopping Xykon.



Basically, you are arguing that Rich should do exactly what he explicitly said he will not do: make the story solely about the Chase for the Gates.

But there needs to be a cutoff point. Rich presumably does not want to go on writing this story forever, until all the main characters die of old age. Theyre adventurers. There is always going to be another quest around the corner, and that quest may affect them as much as the Gate quests does.

And again, I am not arguing that Rich cannot add that to the story, simply that it is perfectly capable of existing without a second book devoted to dealing with Tarquin.

Edit: I personally think it is unlikely that Rich will write about that conflict. If he chooses to prove me wrong by doing so, that is his prerogative (though I would hope he has a better reason for writing than proving me wrong at that point).

[littlebum2002]

Edit for your edit: No, that is nothing remotely like what im suggesting. Im suggesting that it wont be shown in comic, because that is a side issue to the main plot. Something can still happen in universe if there isn't a book devoted to it.

I realized I was incorrect and therefore erased my edit.

But there needs to be a cutoff point. Rich presumably does not want to go on writing this story forever, until all the main characters die of old age. Theyre adventurers. There is always going to be another quest around the corner, and that quest may affect them as much as the Gate quests does.

And again, I am not arguing that Rich cannot add that to the story, simply that it is perfectly capable of existing without a second book devoted to dealing with Tarquin.

Edit: I personally think it is unlikely that Rich will write about that conflict. If he chooses to prove me wrong by doing so, that is his prerogative (though I would hope he has a better reason for writing than proving me wrong at that point).

I agree, it won't be another book. I think it will be just. like. LotR. They will finish the main plot, then go spend a hundred strips or so cleaning up loose ends. I don't have the LotR books, but if I had to guess, the "main plot" ended about 3/4 of the way through the last book? Which means 11/12th of the story was the "main plot" and 1/12th was "stuff after that".

So if this story lasts 1200 strips (it will certainly be more, but the math is easier this way), then spending a hundred strips cleaning up all their loose ends would both give a similar length denouement to LotR, as well as give them plenty of time to finish all the things they find important. We will almost certainly find out what Ian is doing, as well as finally see Elan triumph over his father. Hopefully there will be some closure to the "what Bozzock said while shaving" question, he's apparently not through his arc yet. We'll find out what happens to Gobbotopia and the Azurites. Maybe even see a little of Eugene and Julio Scoundrel again.

[Keltest]

I realized I was incorrect and therefore erased my edit.



I agree, it won't be another book. I think it will be just. like. LotR. They will finish the main plot, then go spend a hundred strips or so cleaning up loose ends. I don't have the LotR books, but if I had to guess, the "main plot" ended about 3/4 of the way through the last book? Which means 11/12th of the story was the "main plot" and 1/12th was "stuff after that".

So if this story lasts 1200 strips (it will certainly be more, but the math is easier this way), then spending a hundred strips cleaning up all their loose ends would both give a similar length denouement to LotR, as well as give them plenty of time to finish all the things they find important. We will almost certainly find out what Ian is doing, as well as finally see Elan triumph over his father. Hopefully there will be some closure to the "what Bozzock said while shaving" question, he's apparently not through his arc yet. We'll find out what happens to Gobbotopia and the Azurites. Maybe even see a little of Eugene and Julio Scoundrel again.

And that's why I don't think it will be in the story. The Empire scheme is a big problem. I highly doubt that a fraction of 100 strips will be able to do justice to Elan's plan, and frankly I think if it does it seriously undermines Tarquin as a villain, if he can be dealt with as an afterthought by a couple of people.

[Murk]

If it's now about thinking what will happen, rather than what you think should happen, I think you quoted the answer already, Littlebum: if this conflict with Xykon gets solved and everyone is still OK, the Order would go on to then defeat the Empire, finish of the Thieves guild, and another few sidequests they had to ignore. I don't think the conflict with Xykon will get solved without those issues being adressed, though.
We don't know yet what will happen at the last gate, but I highly doubt the Order will finds Xykon there, kill him, rebuild the other gates and be happy. I think the world will drasticly change, or at least the Order, and I also think there will be other people involved than just Team Stick and Team Evil.
I don't think the dream sequence - because that is actually what you are describing - is a fair prediction for the future of the comic.

Oh, and since you like the comparison with LoTR: I understand the cleansing of the Shire was a necessary step in the character development of mostly Frodo - nothing being the same, not fitting in, etc. - I still question it as a suitable ending. It wouldn't have been the ending I would choose, and for me it isn't the most satisfactory ending. Just saying.

[littlebum2002]

And that's why I don't think it will be in the story. The Empire scheme is a big problem. I highly doubt that a fraction of 100 strips will be able to do justice to Elan's plan

You know what Elan's plan is?

and frankly I think if it does it seriously undermines Tarquin as a villain, if he can be dealt with as an afterthought by a couple of people.

I agree completely. And one of the more popular theories on this board, that I personally agree with, is that the best way to defeat Tarquin is to undermine him. He wants to be defeated with an entire book devoted to him. But if. instead, Elan's plan to Ian involved somehow defeating Tarquin in a non-dramatic fashion to ensure he won't have a "cool" legacy, and takes, i dunno, 54 strips to do it? Then "defeating Tarquin's empire" would have as many strips devoted to it as "The Battle of Azure City". If 54 strips is enough to dedicate to the entire epic battle fighting for a gate which is of literally universal significance (and the length of which was even lampshaded), then I think that should be more than enough strips to defeat a second stringer like Tarquin.

On a related note: Do you think we'll find out what Haley meant in her "talk" with Elan? Do you think we'll find out what Roy told Roy's Archon to do while he was gone?

Rich has a history of dropping puzzles into the comic, giving us clues, then solving the puzzles at an exciting moment. The familicide killing the Draketooths, the scrying eye in the desert, Elan contacting Julio, Lien's discussion with Hinjo, etc. So it is entirely in keeping with his history of the strip that he has dropped puzzles like these, and will solve them when the time is appropriate. I firmly think we will find out what Ian's strategy is, and what Bozzock's plan for Haley is, and what Haley "is not exactly", and what Roy told Roy's Archon, because that's just the type of writer Rich is. If Quentin Tarintino was writing this, again, I'd completely agree with you. But since Rich has a history of being enigmatic only to fully explain later in the story, I see no reason why that would stop now. There has been no "clue" similar to Elan's note to Ian which hasn't been explained, or isn't obviously going to be explained later, so I don't see why he would stop now.

And that's why I don't think it will be in the story. The Empire scheme is a big problem. I highly doubt that a fraction of 100 strips will be able to do justice to Elan's plan, and frankly I think if it does it seriously undermines Tarquin as a villain, if he can be dealt with as an afterthought by a couple of people.

If it's now about thinking what will happen, rather than what you think should happen, I think you quoted the answer already, Littlebum: if this conflict with Xykon gets solved and everyone is still OK, the Order would go on to then defeat the Empire, finish of the Thieves guild, and another few sidequests they had to ignore. I don't think the conflict with Xykon will get solved without those issues being adressed, though.
We don't know yet what will happen at the last gate, but I highly doubt the Order will finds Xykon there, kill him, rebuild the other gates and be happy. I think the world will drasticly change, or at least the Order, and I also think there will be other people involved than just Team Stick and Team Evil.
I don't think the dream sequence - because that is actually what you are describing - is a fair prediction for the future of the comic.

Oh, and since you like the comparison with LoTR: I understand the cleansing of the Shire was a necessary step in the character development of mostly Frodo - nothing being the same, not fitting in, etc. - I still question it as a suitable ending. It wouldn't have been the ending I would choose, and for me it isn't the most satisfactory ending. Just saying.

I completely agree.

Remember what the oracle told Elan? Yes, for you at least. Will everyone in the Order have a completely happy ending? Almost certainly not. Will Elan? Yes. Is it possible for Elan to have a happy ending without defeating his father? He has explicitly stated that it is not.

And the Oracle told him that this story will have a happy ending, which means that the defeat of Tarquin will be part of this story.

[Murk]

Huh? I knew Haley's "I'm not what you'd call..." was subject to a lot of jokes about Haley being Trigak, or the daughter of Snarl, but I didn't know yet there was actually anyone seriously considering it to be of importance.

Not saying it's stupid or you shouldn't, I just didn't know that was actually a thing. I think it's one of those panels that won't ever be relevant again, because even though the Giant might have a history of dropping hints, he also has a history of putting in silly little gags just for fun. I don't think the hat store will be of any importance either.

But this one is just a case of "we'll see", I guess.

[littlebum2002]

Huh? I knew Haley's "I'm not what you'd call..." was subject to a lot of jokes about Haley being Trigak, or the daughter of Snarl, but I didn't know yet there was actually anyone seriously considering it to be of importance.

Not saying it's stupid or you shouldn't, I just didn't know that was actually a thing. I think it's one of those panels that won't ever be relevant again, because even though the Giant might have a history of dropping hints, he also has a history of putting in silly little gags just for fun. I don't think the hat store will be of any importance either.

But this one is just a case of "we'll see", I guess.

Oh.

Oh, no it couldn't be THAT could it? Even V doesn't know that one...

No, Haley, this is important. Tell him.

Elan, it turns out I may not be exactly what you would call.....



I mean, to me it is pretty obvious that this isn't just a one off gag. There is obviously some huge, deep dark secret that she is so ashamed of that she hasn't even told her best friend. That's slightly more important than a random hat shop. Again, if you ask me, in a literary sense it would be a pretty bad idea to drop a huge clue about a huge part of one of the main character's deep-dark secret about her life and never speak about it again. (and since it wasn't funny it makes a pretty poor gag, anyway)


I don't know, to me I can look through this comic and tell pretty easily which clues are "important" and which are not.

A hat shop? Obviously a gag. Trigak returning? gag.

A secret the main character is hiding even from her best friend and boyfriend? Important. Roy's parting words to his Archon? Important. The gang going out of their way, and Elan risking his neck, to give advice to a secondary character about overthrowing a villian that the main characters have vowed to defeat? It just screams important.

EDIT: Another example: Laurin's favor. There was no WAY she was going to mention something like that and have it just never come up again.

I don't really know how to explain it. Maybe I've just read the comic enough to know Rich's style, but I just can tell you pretty easily when he's dropping a clue and when he's just doing a one-off.

[Murk]

Has there been any discussion whether it wasn't just the whole "I need 200.000 gold for my father in a prison?"-thing?
If so, I don't want to rile up old Haley-discussions in a Tarquinbased thread. Sorry about that :p

And I do agree Tarquin and his empire will probably be (scream) important. Just not as an afterthought of the story, because I think that would very much draw attention away from the final confrontation with Xykon. I'm Always happy to let the Giant surprise me, though :)

[littlebum2002]

Has there been any discussion whether it wasn't just the whole "I need 200.000 gold for my father in a prison?"-thing?
If so, I don't want to rile up old Haley-discussions in a Tarquinbased thread. Sorry about that :p

No, it's a good thing to mention, because I think it was a clue just like Elan's note to Ian. And no, that wasn't it, because she already mentioned that:

"My dad is being held ransom by an evil dictator."

(and also "I'm not really in the Thieves' Guild anymore.")

Considering those two were clues, I see no reason to think the last one is not as well.

(And, yes, I believe "I cheat at solitaire" and "I kissed a girl" were just gags. Again, I can just tell)

And I do agree Tarquin and his empire will probably be (scream) important. Just not as an afterthought of the story, because I think that would very much draw attention away from the final confrontation with Xykon. I'm Always happy to let the Giant surprise me, though :)

Totally agree.