Melee Wilder Help

[Vattic]

Hey guys, any advice for a fella that wants to make a melee Wilder? Game is starting at 4th level, it's Pathfinder plus any 3rd edition stuff we want, stats are 4d6 drop lowest, DM has said that lowest roll will be turned into an 18 if we didn't roll one naturally, so that we will be solid in at least one stat.

I'm attracted to this concept, initially I wanted to make a psychic warrior but the Dreamscarred Press Wilder gets an almost identical chassis and way more power points at the expense of powers known.

I already know some tricks, like getting a psi crystal, vigor and share pain. What I'm really looking for are racial suggestions, feat selections and so on to make a Wilder capable in a medium op group. Party contains a Dwarven Ranger (archer) a halfling Wildmage (he sucks, already killed some kids we were trying to rescue with an ill timed wild magic roll) and a Catfolk Paladin who so far just smites the ever-loving bejeesus out of everything.

I was looking pretty hard at either Maenad or Elan. I really like the fluff of the Maenad, sans the crystal skin bs, but Elan just looks mechanically ridiculously bad ass.

Any help would be much appreciated!

[ZeroSpace9000]

Played with another person who ran a melee wilder, and on the whole it was quite potent. Couple of things off my head:

Rage Surge: Gain Rage as a barbarian, rage powers at a slower rate, can only surge in rage. With the right selection of powers, this gives quite a boost.

Inevitable Strike: A first level power, it mimics True Strike, but can also be manifested as a swift action for a smaller bonus. It can be augmented, which with Rage Surge means AC offers little defence against you.

Beyond those things, it was relatively standard melee stuff, like a big meaty weapon, power attack, stuff like that. There was also the option for Psionic feats, the Psionic Weapon line is good, as is Expanded Knowledge to swipe powers off the Psychic Warriors list. Expansion and Strength of my Enemy instantly come to mind.

Hope that helps.

EDIT: Sorry, missed the line about race choice. Human is always good, +1 feat, stat bump anywhere. Suli is also great, as it gives a bonus to Strength and Charisma. Maenads look pretty good, giving you extra rounds of rage if you take the Rage Surge, while Elans give you more known powers, overcoming the biggest weakness of the wilder.

[Vattic]

thanks for the help, ZeroSpace9000! I'll definitely look into those. What kind of powers and feat combos would you suggest? Also, how does Elan give more powers known?

**edit***i think i will go with Elan, raging surge, and some kind of big weapon. just stuck on feats and powers right now, any help is greatly appreciated!

[Tulya]

The Unlocked Talent feat can be taken by any Naturally Psionic race*, and gives you +2 power points per day, and any 1st level power.
Minor Metamorphosis is a superb power for the early game with martial buffing, utility, and action economy all in one package. As early as level 2 with Wild Surge, you can snag a size increase, +2 enhancement bonus to Strength, and a Bite or Slam attack with one manifestation. By the time Minor Metamorphosis is truly obsoleted by gear and higher level powers, you'll have access to Psychic Reformation and can trade away the feat.
NOTE: Minor Metamorphosis is actually on the Wilder list already, but as a 2nd level power.
Expansion is strictly worse early on, but you can snag the double size increase as early as level 4 (4 base manifester level +2 from Wild Surge + 1 from Psigifted trait = 7 manifester level), and manifest it as a swift action on top of that at level 9. [Or vice-versa as needed].

*Although Naturally Psionic races that take levels in manifesting classes trade away Wild Talent for Psionic Talent, the prerequisite received errata stating,
"Change the prerequisites to read:
Prerequisites: Naturally psionic or Wild Talent"


As to Elans and Powers Known, Human and Elan Wilders have an alternate favored class bonus granting +1 additional power every 4th level you take it, with the restrictions that it has to be at least one power level below your maximum power level, and that they come from the normal wilder power list. Thus, you can take one extra 1st level power at 4th, one 3rd level power at 8th, one 5th level power at 12th, one 7th level power at 16th, and one 8th level power at 20th.

[Vattic]

As to Elans and Powers Known, Human and Elan Wilders have an alternate favored class bonus granting +1 additional power every 4th level you take it, with the restrictions that it has to be at least one power level below your maximum power level, and that they come from the normal wilder power list. Thus, you can take one extra 1st level power at 4th, one 3rd level power at 8th, one 5th level power at 12th, one 7th level power at 16th, and one 8th level power at 20th.

Oh, I see! Thank you, that's really quite helpful, as was all of your advice on powers.

I'll meet with the GM later on this week to roll stats, I'll try and post again soon with a build to critique.

[Vattic]

Ok, so I met with the GM, and after some dice rolling, I arrived at some very nice stats. The guy was being extremely generous with stat generation and I'm not one to argue.

So at level four, including racial bonuses (Elan) this is what I ended up with:

Str : 18
Dex: 12
Con: 16
Wis: 16
Cha: 20

Base Attack is +3, saves are Fort: +1 Ref: +1 Will: +3

I have 29 power points, and know 2 level 1 powers and 1 level 2, can Wild Surge to increase Manifester Level up to +2, and can choose 2 feats.

What I'd still very much like help with are choosing 2 traits, 2 feats and 3 powers that will help me be a good Melee Wilder. I picked the Raging Surge ability to help out with that, and have 6000gp to spend to gear up.

Any suggestions on feats/powers/traits/gear?

[pi4t]

You might want to consider some way to become undead, for cha>con, and immunity to most fortitude save things.

[Tulya]

I'd consider some of the following options for a melee Wilder at 4th level. They're by no means intended to be exhaustive, but to give ideas for shaping out a more specific build concept.

Offensive
Claws of the Beast (Costs Unlocked talent feat) - Swift action to manifest, and lasts hours/level. With Psigifted trait and a size increase, you can have a pair of 3d6 primary natural attacks now.
Expansion (Costs Unlocked Talent feat, only worthwhile with Psigifted at this level) - Effectively 2d6+3 weapon damage, +10 feet of reach, modest combat maneuver bonuses. Standard action + 5 pp to manifest, lasts full combat.
Inevitable Strike (Costs 1st level power) - Large bonus to-hit on next attack as a swift action. One of very few swift-action offensive powers.
Minor Metamorphosis (Costs 2nd level power or Unlocked Talent feat) - Only one size increase to Expansion's two, but gives a natural attack, and has defensive options and out-of-combat utility. Standard action + 3 pp to manifest, last full combat.

Defensive
Minor Metamorphosis (Costs 2nd level power or Unlocked Talent feat) - Its defensive options are poor by 4th level and never scale in effectiveness, but it effectively offers action economy in that you get them alongside the offensive options. That is, getting the effect of Vigor at 1 pp is not a good use of a standard action by 4th level, but getting Expansion, Bite of the Wolf, and Vigor all at their 1 pp values for a standard action is more respectable.
Natural Healing (Costs Unlocked Talent feat) - Switches the damage management focus to out-of-combat. No pp cost when healing yourself once per 10 minutes by expending psionic focus on a Wild Surge. Can singlehandedly enable you to perform the healer role for your party for the rest of the game with reasonable efficiency with via Share Power feat. (Share Power Ultimate Psionics errata reduces cost of sharing as a touch to psionic focus alone.)
Share Pain (Costs 2nd level power) - Doubles effective health of a linked creature, commonly used with Vigor and a Psicrystal. Costs a standard action, but hours/ml duration makes it an always-on pre-buff.
Vigor (Costs 1st level power) - Provides a large health buffer at the cost of a standard action and pp, doubled effectiveness when shared with a Psicrystal along with Share Pain. May soak Raging Surge enervation damage, depending on how it's adjudicated.


For example, you could aim for stacking natural attacks to go with the high mobility of psionic characters once they get Hustle/Psionic Lion's Charge. In that case, Minor Metamorphosis and Claws of the Beast grant you 3 natural attacks with boosted damage immediately - a 1d10 slam attack and two 3d6 claw attacks as a full-attack. At 5th level, you can select the Lesser Fiend Totem for a 1d8 gore attack (2d6 while large), and spend a feat on Animal Fury for a 1d6 bite attack. At 6th level, you'll be able to hustle into position to make full attacks with all five attacks nearly every round.


You have the Charisma to also support mixing in some battlefield control, and your melee orientation opens up additional options many other manifesters won't consider. If you have open power slots after supporting your martial capabilities, I'd suggest looking at:
Ectoplasmic Sheen (1st level power)
Slumber (1st level power) [Needs Endowed Mind feat to scale DC]
Mental Disruption (2nd level power) [Needs Endowed Mind feat to scale DC if you want to increase AoE and dazed duration]

[Madhava]

As to Elans and Powers Known, Human and Elan Wilders have an alternate favored class bonus granting +1 additional power every 4th level you take it, with the restrictions that it has to be at least one power level below your maximum power level, and that they come from the normal wilder power list. Thus, you can take one extra 1st level power at 4th, one 3rd level power at 8th, one 5th level power at 12th, one 7th level power at 16th, and one 8th level power at 20th.

Did you mean educated Wilder ACF from the old TME site? Because that hasn't got any racial requirement. You just trade it for volatile mind, which is fairly useless.

Educated Wilder

You have had formal psionic training.
Level: 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th.
Replaces: You lose the volatile mind class ability at all levels listed above.

Benefit: You have received some formal psionic training and as such, you have unlocked psionic powers most wilders never dream of. You gain the Expanded Knowledge feat at all of the above levels. But due to the training involved, your mind is not as untamed as most wilders and you lose the defensive ability volatile mind.

Also, as far as recommendations: Try to fit dimension hop in, somewhere onto your powers-known list. It's a level 1 power which isn't normally available to Wilder (take it via the ACF above, or with hidden talent feat).

It will be your best friend ever.

Or, at least just-as-best as vigor & expansion.

Hustle + psionic meditation feat is always a nifty combo, when used with anything that makes you expend your focus (linked power, psionic weapon, etc).

[Dusk Eclipse]

That is fairly solid advise, but it is for 3.5, while the OP is asking about th Pathfinder's Wilder.

[Tulya]

Did you mean educated Wilder ACF from the old TME site? Because that hasn't got any racial requirement. You just trade it for volatile mind, which is fairly useless.

Pathfinder tagged topic. Though I totally forgot they also mention 3e content being available in the body text, so that's a lot of extra options that I haven't perused in ages.

[Vattic]

Thanks for all of the help so far guys, Tulya especially. I do like the idea of going with claws of the beast as my primary mode of melee, so those suggestions are well taken.

Does anyone have any advice for talents? I haven't seen too many psionic based ones.

[Vattic]

Hey Playground, just wanted to say that all of your advice was killer, I got the chance to play the character this weekend and it was the most fun I've had in years! Finally got to play an effective, but not overpowered, melee character and I really appreciate the feed back and advice.

Thanks again!