Another thread on race ideas - non-beefcake

[veti]

If you really want to make up new races... I suggest looking to the animal world for inspiration.

Consider squirrels:
- Solitary lifestyle
- Incredibly agile
- Cunning - excellent problem-solving skills
- Very short attention span and poor memory

Sounds like a viable template for a thief-oriented race.

Or rabbits:
- Social lifestyle, strong dependency on others
- Great improvisers, can make do and survive almost anywhere
- Not strong or particularly agile, but alert and fast

A stereotypical rabbit could be a cleric, or possibly a ranger or bard.

The common housecat:
- Lazy, self-centred
- Highly territorial
- Cruel streak
- Vain, and attach great importance to grooming

Versatile race, could be most classes, but I would think more intellectually- than physically-oriented because of the laziness factor.

If you go this way - don't, whatever you do, make the races look like the animals that inspired them. Making a squirrel-inspired race and then giving them fluffy tails and pointy ears would IMO be a huge mistake. Make them look like gnomes (by which I mean, those tacky figures who sit around in gardens with nonfunctional fishing rods) or something - basically, distract from their origins, don't accentuate them.

[Nargrakhan]

Making a squirrel-inspired race and then giving them fluffy tails and pointy ears would IMO be a huge mistake.

The Fur is strong in you. Why deny it? Give in... accept your Furriness. Give in to the Furry Side!!!

[Zrak]

At least give them an optional alternate ability where they can dazzle creatures with darkvision by shaking their butts, as an homage to one of nature's goofiest defense mechanisms.

[ReaderAt2046]

No, the gender ratios at birth are even. Over half of the population is female due to women living longer.

Actually, from what I understand, the gender ratio at birth (or shortly thereafter), is skewed towards men, since sex-selective abortion and female infanticide are huge problems in certain parts of the world.

[Nargrakhan]

At least give them an optional alternate ability where they can dazzle creatures with darkvision by shaking their butts, as an homage to one of nature's goofiest defense mechanisms.

Your idea of a squirrel-girl and my idea of a squirrel-girl are definitely different. I would call that a mating call.

[Solaris]

Actually, from what I understand, the gender ratio at birth (or shortly thereafter), is skewed towards men, since sex-selective abortion and female infanticide are huge problems in certain parts of the world.

Yes, but that's an entirely different conversation and not one germane to the point that humans (like most mammals) have an even gender ratio due to the way gametes are formed, and the relatively greater number of females is due to their living longer.

[Metahuman1]

This actually beings to mind an interesting question about the idea of a race with extreme sexual dimorphism.
What if the male and female representatives of a race were so vastly different they have mechanical benefits and detriments completely distinct from each other.

What if there was a common misconception that there are no female orcs because an orcish female is actually something like a wood nymph? What if there's no such thing as a female dwarf or a male elf because they're actually the same race?

Don't be silly, only girls have wings.

You know, I suddenly have an idea for a race were males get wings and flight and a nice dex boost, maybe some stealth or magic help, and females get fast healing and DR and Size Cat Large and a nice Str/Con boost.

[Zrak]

Your idea of a squirrel-girl and my idea of a squirrel-girl are definitely different. I would call that a mating call.

Squirrels distract snakes (and other predators) by heating up their tail and whipping it around like crazy, which messes with their organ that senses infrared radiation. Depending on who you ask, it's either intimidating or just confusing. While the notion that it sends a signal to the snake that the squirrel is aware of it and willing to defend itself (basically eliciting a "not worth it, bro" response from the snake) is probably a little more sound, the idea that it's just really disorienting and the snake just kind of gets weirded out and leaves is much funnier, so I went with that.

[DoomHat]

You know, I suddenly have an idea for a race were males get wings and flight and a nice dex boost, maybe some stealth or magic help, and females get fast healing and DR and Size Cat Large and a nice Str/Con boost.

That would actually work awesomely for a bird or reptile race! That's so great I'm tempted to go try and make it actualized over in the homebrew thread right now.

[Nargrakhan]

You know, I suddenly have an idea for a race were males get wings and flight and a nice dex boost, maybe some stealth or magic help, and females get fast healing and DR and Size Cat Large and a nice Str/Con boost.

To paraphrase a movie quote:

"Wings? I don't have wings!"

"Of course not. You're a girl."

[Metahuman1]

I was under the impression many insects and arachnids also had such features, as well as a number of aquatic species, including Mammals.


And for course, D&D, so, you can do weird stuff by just saying "Oh, the race is monstrous humanoid/draconic/outsider/abberation/whatever based."

But hey, let me know if you wanna hammer with it abit, we can maybe do that.



Nargrakhan:

"Girls are the one's who don't stay hurt for more then a minute when you hit them in the stomach with a warhammer." If were playing fully with the idea.

[MalcolmReynolds]

@metahuman1

The mutos from godzilla? still, something with that kind of marked sexual dimorphism could be interesting.


@Zrack

i get what youre saying, and i reckon dwarves would have to be super cleanly or else the entire mountainhome would stink awefully. these things arent binary, and people's perceptions will be based on which traits they associate most strongly with the race.



As far as another idea, how do people see gensai/elemental people? people have already mentioend dryads/nymphs, and the idea i have kind of crosses them with dragonslayers in fairytail (fire dragon slayer eats fire -> can then use fire to fight), also kind of looking at the elementals in adventuretime.

having done biology this year the idea of this based around crossing genetics intrigues me. the 4 fire/water/earth/air elements are basic, but then if mama and papa are earth and water, baby gets 1 gene water 1 gene earth, they end up being a plant elemental/nymph.

also reckon that consuming their element causes strong emotion that can get out of control, eg. fire being passionate, earth being stubborn or whatever lines up.

[BeerMug Paladin]

No, the gender ratios at birth are even. Over half of the population is female due to women living longer.

Ah, I remembered a thing wrong. According to wikipedia, males are slightly more common at birth. I recalled the opposite for some reason.

Maybe I ought to fact check my science jokes before I try to make them.

[Metahuman1]

@metahuman1

The mutos from godzilla? still, something with that kind of marked sexual dimorphism could be interesting.

Not quite what I had in mind, but yeah, they do use that particular aspect of biology for them in that movie as I understand. (It's on my "Gotta get around to watching it list.")

[Sartharina]

... You cannot go wrong with cat/foxgirls. Those are the perfect fit for any campaign.

[Admiral Squish]

... You cannot go wrong with cat/foxgirls. Those are the perfect fit for any campaign.

Sorry, but I have to comment that this is provably untrue. I have seen both cat- and fox- people go very, very wrong, and while the races themselves are not to blame, there is a certain potential for them not to work in many campaign settings.
Besides, I have to say, I feel like animal-races are just too easy. Everyone's done them, and unless you pick a very unusual base-animal, or focus on an atypical aspect there-of, there's not a lot of new territory to explore.

I'll ponder on this topic while I'm out running errands and come back with some ideas for you.

[Tarlek Flamehai]

No, the gender ratios at birth are even. Over half of the population is female due to women living longer.

My reading indicates that this varies in humans by genetic/ethnic background. Mind you, I have not made a study of it. I have not gone and checked primary sources, nor am I a geneticist (in short I may have been misled). All that said, there are variances in coloration, height and numerous other physical characteristics; so variances in male to female birth ratio make sense to me.

[Solaris]

My reading indicates that this varies in humans by genetic/ethnic background. Mind you, I have not made a study of it. I have not gone and checked primary sources, nor am I a geneticist (in short I may have been misled). All that said, there are variances in coloration, height and numerous other physical characteristics; so variances in male to female birth ratio make sense to me.

You have been misled if you think it due to anything other than certain cultures practicing infanticide and aborting female children.

Where variances in coloration, height, and numerous other physical characteristics are derived from multiple genes, gender is derived from just one chromosome that comes from one of the parental gametes - the father's sperm cell. In 99.99% of these cells, they bear either a X or Y chromosome (sometimes they have XX or XY, or none at all). Thanks to the magic of meiosis, they are present in perfectly even proportions - even those rare aberrant sex chromosome counts work out to be just about even in the presented genders, and are too rare to skew the statistics appreciably to begin with (though they'll work more towards phenotypically female than phenotypically male).

Mammal gametes (which of course include human sperm and egg cells) are produced through the process of meiosis. This is, in essence, a two-stage division wherein a single diploid cell gives rise to four haploid daughter cells. With eggs, all but one is discarded (and they'd only carry an X chromosome to begin with). With the sperm, two of these daughter cells carry X chromosomes, and two carry Y chromosomes. Thus, no matter the race, ethnicity, or genetic background, the child has a 50-50 chance of being male or female upon conception.

[Sartharina]

You have been misled if you think it due to anything other than certain cultures practicing infanticide and aborting female children.

... Since when did the cultures of the U.S. and Western Europe and every other culture ever start practicing infanticide and abortion of female children?

Where variances in coloration, height, and numerous other physical characteristics are derived from multiple genes, gender is derived from just one chromosome that comes from one of the parental gametes - the father's sperm cell. In 99.99% of these cells, they bear either a X or Y chromosome (sometimes they have XX or XY, or none at all). Thanks to the magic of meiosis, they are present in perfectly even proportions - even those rare aberrant sex chromosome counts work out to be just about even in the presented genders, and are too rare to skew the statistics appreciably to begin with (though they'll work more towards phenotypically female than phenotypically male).

Mammal gametes (which of course include human sperm and egg cells) are produced through the process of meiosis. This is, in essence, a two-stage division wherein a single diploid cell gives rise to four haploid daughter cells. With eggs, all but one is discarded (and they'd only carry an X chromosome to begin with). With the sperm, two of these daughter cells carry X chromosomes, and two carry Y chromosomes. Thus, no matter the race, ethnicity, or genetic background, the child has a 50-50 chance of being male or female upon conception.

It's a hell of a lot more complex than that. Meiosis is only one part of the process.

[Metahuman1]

... Since when did the cultures of the U.S. and Western Europe and every other culture ever start practicing infanticide and abortion of female children?

I'm of the understanding that this happens in country's that have 1 child laws and still have costumes rigged to allow men to have things like family name and so on passed to them.

[Eldan]

You know, I suddenly have an idea for a race were males get wings and flight and a nice dex boost, maybe some stealth or magic help, and females get fast healing and DR and Size Cat Large and a nice Str/Con boost.

I suggest scale insects as an inspiration. The females are large, heavily armoured and immobile, while hte males are short-lived, have legs and can fly.

... You cannot go wrong with cat/foxgirls. Those are the perfect fit for any campaign.

That's a pet peeve of mine. People take animals with interesting traits for their inspiration and then the best they can come up with is slightly modified human with caricature of that trait.

Stop using primate body structure for everything people! There's things out there other than tetrapods!

[Sartharina]

That's a pet peeve of mine. People take animals with interesting traits for their inspiration and then the best they can come up with is slightly modified human with caricature of that trait.

Stop using primate body structure for everything people! There's things out there other than tetrapods!

Once you stop using primate body structure and thought pattern, it starts bringing in all sorts of complications that tend to render the race unplayable, and it becomes a Monster instead.

[Admiral Squish]

Right, I had a couple of ideas, though their appeal may vary based on what exactly you're looking for in your setting.

For our first option, we have a race that seems 'typical' on the surface. Amazons. Basically, a race of human-like females that reside in a dense rainforest. Basically standard level of societal development, with staple-crop agriculture and semi-passive environmental modification, supplemented by hunting and foraging for variety. Probably bronze tech pre-contact, but they rapidly took up ironworking when exposed to it. On the surface, they look like a standard human society, though there is one notable distinction. There are, normally, no males in amazon society. Females fill all societal roles. Outsiders might believe they just come from nowhere, or kidnap males to mate with, but the truth is much more strange. For about three months out of the year, the amazons experience their mating season. Most experience relatively minor changes, but about one in ten amazons undergoes a dramatic physical change, becoming a male for the next three months. These individuals are treated well and cared for, but they essentially lose their ability to function properly in society, losing almost all self-control and becoming highly distracted, unable to contribute to the society as a whole. The amazon word for these individuals has connotations of perversion, simple-mindedness, and uselessness, and upon contacting humans for the first time, they applied the word to the human males. The word continues to see use, and while amazons who spend time among the humans understand their males are not quite as bad as amazon males, most amazons see little difference between the two, and regard them similarly. Even those understanding ones will generally regard men as a lower social standing, and usually prefer to interact with women. Amazons are somewhat infamous for not tolerating males who behave crudely or try to order them around, but in truth, opinions vary, and some even see the presence of males year-round as a luxury to be taken advantage of.

The second option is decidedly less human. Fey, in fact. Think pixie/dryad hybrid. Tiny sized females which resemble humanoid females with some minor, insect-like traits, but delicately carved out of wood, and carried air by four wings that resemble the samara (or 'helicopters') of maple trees. Where dryads and treants may protect the trees, these little ladies actively spread the forests wherever they can. What they do is they find a certain type of tree they're particularly fond of, and enter it much like a dryad does. When they emerge, they bear a pregnant-looking belly. They don't actually suffer the normal effects of pregnancy, the belly is, in fact, full of a few dozen seeds. They can reach into said belly much like they can reach into trees, and pull out the seeds to plant. Typically they simply flutter about performing their task, but the truth is, they are somewhat distractable. They often will entertain themselves by spying on or following around the mortals that happen to pass by. Considering their infinite lifespan and natural cleverness, it's not surprising that many pick up some adventuring skills, and, when sufficiently motivated, can be fearsome opponents and powerful allies.

[shameless plugs]
Alternately, you could use ideas from some of my previous 'brews.

Thirtysixes are a race of octopus/starfish things that are aquatic and arboreal, radially symmetrical, and communicate via sign-language since they don't have lungs. Also, they have three genders, and can change between them depending on their circumstances.

Gibberlings are a race of small, furry humanoids that live their lives as inseparable units of three siblings, know as 'sprouts'.

Sslak a race of sentient, amorphous slimes that can 'wear' skeletons to take on many more efficient forms.

Tenaxi a race of plants that are very, very difficult to permanently kill, and can rarrange their grasslike fibers to take on a variety of forms.
[/shameless plugs]

[Themrys]

im sorry, i should have explained this a little better.

In short, im looking for something that the stereotypical female would be drawn to to play.

i am aware that this is a touchy topic and it could be easy to drop into sexism, but i am trying to avoid that. i feel that you have straw manned me a little with the awesome vs matriarch thing, but i will reiterate that i DONT agree with that (capital is emphasis, not yelling).

The struggle i am facing is as follows. i am male myself, and thus find it a lot easier to create races/species that I, from a male perspective, would be more drawn to play (dwarfs and orcs for example, while they can be male or female, embody generally more masculine traits.). however, i have difficulty trying to create / find /make a spin on something so that the race embodies feminine traits. the example for a more feminine race would be elves. again, can be male or female, but i would argue that the stereotypical elf is more feminine than masculine.

i also realize it isn't binary, im more looking on a sliding scale.

i brought up the example of the matriarchy (drow) as something i want to avoid, as i dont think the answer to 'how do i make/find a feminine race' should be 'make them all/the important ones female' (there are exceptions to this, but you get my point. dont straw man me here).

I also do not want the entire game to be dominated by the politics of sex, i want to balance out the world so that there is adequate player choice, and not pidgeon holing people.

hopefully that has cleared stuff up

And thankyou jaydubs, those might be some things to look into. i do like the goblins comic, so nagas are actually a pretty good idea i reckon

I am not going to read the other posts here, due to lack of time; I don't want to get into a discussion now.

So, drow are (sorry, drow-lovers) a quite ****ty example of matriarchy, and nothing that would appeal to female players such as myself.

I like beefcake characters (female!). If you are a slender, small woman in real life, it is fun to be able to solve problems by hitting enemies with a big sword, it's a change. The character has to be female. (My first character was a stereotyped-viking type, a race that got a bonus on strength and is taller than others, and their culture has been purged of the sexism. As human women are physically exactly as strong as men in the setting, the value those pseudo-vikings place on physical strength is not quite as off-putting as it would otherwise be)

What is wrong with elves, though?
Other fantasy creatures (humans would be fine, really, just take away the patriarchy-as-default, it dominates the play way too much) would include:

- Huldra
- Merpeople (Selkies, for example, can walk on land, which is useful)
- Dryads (without trees)
- Nymphs
- Fauns (stereotypically they're all male, but hey, why cling to that? I have seen quite a few very pretty female fauns in larp)
- Werecreatures (Foxes are typically female in Japanese mythology)
- Catpeople
- Centaurs (Culture suggestion: Copy the lifestyle of horses, they live in groups lead by a female horse, usually)
- Leotaurs (They might be copyrighted, I only ever saw them in the Quest for Glory series. Basically, centaurs, but with lion bodies and heads. Ruled by a male king but all-female parliament in that game)
- whatever Maleficent was in that new movie (technically, she's a fairy, but that's a quite broad definition)

As you are not likely to ever enounter a stereotypically female player, my recommendation is to just make sure that you get away from patriarchy (and trust me, if you never tried to do something about it, your fantasy society is most likely patriarchal).

I, a female player, albeit not a stereotypical one, do not like stereotypically masculine races that value people who are capable of killing above all else. It just does not make sense to me. Ending a life is much easier than creating one. (Comes with less pain per person, on average, too!) So, no barbarian "the strongest one is the leader" tribes for me. Other than that, I play pretty much everything.

Dwarves who value arts and crafts are okay, although you might have to stay away from female beards for your stereotypical female player. (I like beards. You can plait them and decorate them with shiny gems. Very feminine!)
Take a look at Tolkien. He was actually quite good at appealing to women. There is lots of war in his books, true, but it is emphasized that pretty much no one really likes killing, or thinks it defines a person. Everyone loves poetry and song. Not just the elves, humans and dwarves, too, even hobbits, although their poetry is a bit less refined. Gimli is so proud of the masonry of the mines of Moria, that he falls in love/admiration with Galadriel after she declares her appreciation for it. There is, of course, a load of sexism in Tolkien's works, but he does a good job at staying away from the Gary Stue main character that is just an avatar for insecure male readers. (I am quite sure that the male power fantasy that has no artistic value whatsoever is what keeps women away from some kinds of fantasy. If you're not a man, it looks just so very stupid.)I am a bit stereotypical as woman, though not as female player, and I love me some culture and art. Basically, a dwarf who wants to kill orcs with a big axe so that she can get back to her very important work on that big, impressive stone statue of the dwarf queen, would very much appeal to me. If there is killing to be done, it should be done, without much fuss, in order to be able to work in peace on more important things.

Matriarchal cultures are a nice thing, too, you just have to get it right. For starters, you can just genderflip Tolkien's Middle Earth culture. (If you didn't notice the very oppressive patriarchy in Middle Earth, good - the genderflip will be subtle enough to not get in the way of gameplay) If you want to world-build a bit more, you can change some things, like for example, women might not be as obsessed with men's chastity the same way as vice versa, as women always know if it is their child or not. (Of course, jealousy is still a thing, so you can take both paths)

[Eldan]

Once you stop using primate body structure and thought pattern, it starts bringing in all sorts of complications that tend to render the race unplayable, and it becomes a Monster instead.

But it's just so boring. And disappointing. There's so much life out there. And people always stick bilateral symmetry and four limbs and a head on everything. No one ever comes up with anything creative.

[Solaris]

... Since when did the cultures of the U.S. and Western Europe and every other culture ever start practicing infanticide and abortion of female children?

Westerners don't. Other cultures do.
A couple of these cultures are really, really populous. Significantly more so than the U.S. and Western Europe combined, in fact.
The US's birth ratio is 1.05, meaning 105 boys to every 100 girls. You plug that into a Chi-square test, it comes up being right at the critical level for determining whether we have a statistically significant variation from the expected 1:1 ratio. To posit a conclusion, while there may be an environmental effect skewing slightly towards boys, it's not enough to overwhelm the natural inclination towards a 1:1 ratio.
China and India, on the other hand, have 1.12 - which is a statistically significant variation, and is easily explained by their practices of gendercide.

It's a hell of a lot more complex than that. Meiosis is only one part of the process.

For conception or for birth?
'Cause sperm X-or-Y is what determines at conception. Other factors (both natural and anthropogenic) play a role in whether or not the child gets carried to term or not. Don't forget, some twenty percent of human pregnancies end in a spontaneous abortion due to unviability for some reason or another. If those factors determining viability are environmental and favor one gender over another, then it's hardly a stretch of the imagination to see where the slight imbalance on the gender ratio at birth comes from.

But it's just so boring. And disappointing. There's so much life out there. And people always stick bilateral symmetry and four limbs and a head on everything. No one ever comes up with anything creative.

Yeah - but most people really lack the creativity to get into a character so vastly alien from themselves. I'll put monstrous races into my settings, but I'd be shocked and amazed if a player wanted to run one. Gotta have the usual humanoids for your usual players to play, otherwise the game gets rather dull.

[BeerMug Paladin]

With regards to fantasy races, it's easier to understand a character if they are closer to human in physical senses, abilities and needs than not. That's probably why you generally don't see lots of amorphous slime creatures or magical flying crystals as player races.

While I like the idea of how our senses and our natural abilities influence our conception of the world around us, that doesn't strike me as a topic especially suitable for a fantasy setting. It would work better in a science fiction setting.

Or horror. The game vampire generally gets this thing right, with how the humans inside the monster must constantly fight back against their now natural senses and urges and resist becoming the worst monsters they could one day become.

And/or how they lose their connection with humanity as the centuries press on and all their old human connections fade away, and are unlikely to be replaced by new ties binding them to humanity.

[goto124]

Admittingly, it would be a lot easier to see OP's problems if he shard with us at least 1 of the races he came up with.
Maybe he doesn't really have major problems after all. Hard to tell until OP returns.

[JetThomasBoat]

Yeah - but most people really lack the creativity to get into a character so vastly alien from themselves. I'll put monstrous races into my settings, but I'd be shocked and amazed if a player wanted to run one. Gotta have the usual humanoids for your usual players to play, otherwise the game gets rather dull.

Actually brings up an interesting point. I was trying to work out mechanics for a creature that spent most of its time on all fours for fast movement but could also weild weapons in its front paws. Then again, it was for a fake TTRPG in a story I was writing, so it was mostly just a mental exercise.

[TaintedDeity]

With regards to bees and 'male' and 'female', it's a bit of a misnomer to call them that. There isn't male and female bees, it would be more accurate to say there are drone, worker and queen bees. Calling them 'male' and 'female' is imposing an anthropocentric outlook on them that doesn't really achieve much.

If you want to make a bee race or insectoid race, it can be worth keeping in mind these (perhaps quite alien to us) cultural differences.