Magic for a Novel Setting

[Ninjadeadbeard]

After reading the responses in this thread, as well as asking friends elsewhere their opinions, I have revised the system. Spoiler'd for length. There is the original post at the bottom.

Spoiler: Magic

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The world is composed of invisible, intangible Strings/Strands. These come in three types: Form, Function, and Fate, and those who learn how (focus properly) can see them. If one observes Strings, they can affect the Strings.

Fate Strings appear to fill the entire world like a three dimensional loom. Strings pass up and down, along the North to South and East to West Axis, as well as the four directions in between. They appear to be made of gold or silver light, and are largely ephemeral (translucent) unless one focuses to see them. Fate Strings represent the natural forces in the world that affect it. These include, but are not necessarily limited to Heat, Electromagnetism, Kinetic Force, Time, and Gravity. Gravity and Kinetics are closely related and are sometimes called Force. Heat and Magnetism are very closely related and sometimes "tug" on one another.

Form Strings control What You Are. They appear as a web of knots and strings in an enclosed system overlaid the physical form of things and people. They are often described as Red or Orange, but otherwise similar in makeup to Fate Strings. These control such things as what material something is made from, as well as density, appearance, gender, race, species, size, etc.

Function Strings control Who You Are. They appear as a Purple or Blue network similar to Form Strings, though these congregate around the brain of a creature. These control such things as personality, intelligence, memories, loves, hates, and perception. Several of these strings radiate out from some beings to others, demonstrating awareness of one another, and in the case where knots form between two beings, powerful emotional bonds.

Unless otherwise stated, all Living Things of sufficient complexity (Humans at top) are composed of a Sixknot Web. Therefore, there are usually Six Knots which make up one's Function, and Six Knots that compose one's Form. It is theorized that the Gods are actually Sevenknots, which is an otherwise impossible number of Knots in a Web.

A Weaver is someone who can Weave String into Threads, sometimes called Spells. These Threads allow Weavers to perform amazing and terrifying feats. Unfortunately, no Thread lasts forever, and like loose threads in a loom, magical Threads are unmade after a little time. In order for a spell to last, the Thread must be tied into a Knot. A Knot is a strong spell that will last for a long time, perhaps centuries or even forever with maintenance. Multiple Knots tied together create a Web, which is an incredibly powerful spell of sometimes world-changing significance. Between Two and Six Knots can be bound into a Web at once (Sevenknots, as mentioned, are only theoretical). The amount of skill, concentration, and power required to form a Web goes up exponentially for every Knot, making Sixknots one of the rarest and most powerful spells in existence.

Costs: Time is a major constraint on a Weaver. Weaving is actually very dangerous, and mastering each step in one’s training is paramount. It takes years to become Proficient in Weaving, and that is a long way from Good. Threads also require great concentration to create and maintain, and tying knots takes more time as well.

Weaknesses/Limitations: Weaving is very, very dangerous. First, Weavers are still connected to the Weave, the loom of the universe. There is always a danger of Feedback from using a Thread, which is usually lethal or worse. Feedbacks are somewhat unpredictable in nature, meaning that a Fire Thread could backlash against the wielder, either burning or freezing them to death. It is hard to predict which. Messing with someone's Function could open the Weaver up to having his or her own mind read by their victim, or they would suffer brain damage on a feedback.

Second, high Affinity for Weaving makes you a better Weaver, but it also makes you more vulnerable to Weaving from others. While a high affinity would allow, say, a Magnetic Weaver to affect metal with incredible ease, unless he has multiple layers of defenses around himself (see below for why he would not) a simple Perception thread would allow anyone to fool him with an illusion.

Three, any use of Weaving will start to Fray. Fraying is bad. If the Strings Fray, there is the chance of a Snarl. Weavers must constantly watch for Frays and fix them before they grow out of control. Defensive Knots also contribute to fraying, and thus no Weaver in their right mind would have more than one web of defensive weaving active at once.

A Fray is where reality starts to break down. Weaving in a Fray has a dramatically increased chance of Feedback, and a higher chance that ‘Plucking’ any Strings will snag other, unintended Strings, causing outright magical chaos. A Snarl is when reality actually breaks. This usually results in physics completely breaking down for a short while, proportional to how much Fraying took place. A really bad Snarl could Zero Sum an area. Zero-Summing is when a part of reality becomes so Snarled that it falls outside of the universe for a while. While Zeroed, an area and all its current inhabitants cease to exist, and even family and friends will forget they existed until the damage subsides and the area is restored. This almost always results in catastrophic damage to property, and incurable mutations, mutilations, and insanity for anyone trapped when the Zero-Sum occurred.

After a Snarl has recovered, any number of things within the are could have become Tangled. A Tangle is anything that has had a Reality Thread burned into it due to a Snarl. These are permanently magical things, though with odd enchantments and unpredictable abilities. Some people pay a fortune to collect them, making Snarls both terrifying, and lucrative to the right people.


Actual limitations of Weaving include: 1)You cannot raise the dead. One might be confused considering how prevalent Undead are, but there is a remarkable difference. Draugr, Vampires, and Ghosts are Undead. They are created using weaving, but they are not the same person they once were. Draugr are reanimated corpses, and they continue to rot as they exist. They hunger for the living and are jealous of what they have lost. While they remember some things they once knew, these Revenants are considered malevolent corruptions of those they once were. Vampires are created when one attempts to live forever by directly manipulating one's life force. Vampirism itself is a sort of corruption or disease of the soul, and it has many drawbacks and advantages. Chief among the downsides is that the life force of the afflicted begins bleeding out, necessitating stealing it from others. Ghosts are shades of people who once lived. They are created through great trauma or through weaving their Function into a place or object. They have no defense against weaving, may be good or evil, and typically guard something precious to them in life. No one has ever actually come back from the dead. The closest you could get would be to preserve their Function and then burn it into another person's Form. This is never tolerated by law.


2)You cannot travel through time. The Weave does not record nor predict that which lies outside of the present. Thus, actual travel through time is impossible, except the long way. Perceiving time, however, is possible. Someone could view past events through a medium, though such visions are known to be highly distorted due to not actually being recorded anywhere, and are instead renderings made by "jogging" the Weave's memory.


Not everyone can become a Weaver. While anyone, with proper time, patience, and affinity can learn to focus and manipulate the Weave, there are some who are uniquely handicapped: Hobbes and Norns. Hobbes (sometimes called Warlocks) cannot perceive the Weave at all, and yet possess the ability to Weave still. They are rare, partly because few survive to adulthood before blowing themselves up with their power, and partly because many communities destroy children found to be Draedoldur, or 'Threadburners'. Hobbes can feel only the most immediate Weave around them, but possess an unnaturally powerful sense of Strings. They are able to manipulate strings very powerfully and with great precision, although only those a few feet from their bodies. They are still restricted to the usual limits of Weaving, and a lack of understanding will swiftly lead them to their deaths, often tragically. Again, very few survive to adulthood.

A Norn, on the other hand, is treated far differently than a Hobb. Norns are born without the ability to affect strings at all. But they are capable of seeing the Weave in far greater detail than all but the most gifted Weavers, and even then Norns may do so with little effort where a Master Weaver would require a terrible amount of focus. Norns perception allows them to perceive Weaving, whilst retaining some small amount of resistance to its effects. A Norn can only cut a Thread, not manipulate it in any other fashion, and even then he often requires a tool such as an enchanted/Knotted Dagger or other cutting implement. Their Sight allows a Norn to see 'ripples' in the Weave. These subtle motions can inform them on subjects such as the Past and the Future. Visions from a Norn are usually correct.

Spoiler: Examples

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Example 1: An Apprentice tries to unravel a Function Knot (Passion) between a girl and her boyfriend, and binds her to himself with his own Knot. Unfortunately, she disliked the Apprentice, and the Knot increases that exponentially. She slays the Apprentice in a murderous rage. The Master Weaver reconnects the previous Knot and proceeds to lay a web of Fourknot around the girl’s memories of the murder, preventing her from remembering anything of the incident.

Example 2: A Weaver wishes to fly unnoticed. She takes hold of the knots which make up her Form and alter them so as to read “Eagle” instead of “Human”. As Form Strings and Function Strings mirror each other, she will slowly become more eagle-like the more she uses this ability and the longer she remains in this form. Eventually, she might become entirely an eagle, forgetting her former life.

Example 3: The Court Weaver hides the infant Princess as her father is slain and their kingdom conquered. The Weaver creates a Sixknot of Time around the princess, shielding her from all others save for himself. Anyone who sees her will fail to connect her with the lost princess, if they are capable of remembering there was a princess to be lost. The Weaver eventually Unweaves the knot, just in time for the princess to lead her people in rebellion.

Example 4: A battle has broken out between two armies, each with Weavers in their ranks. A young but talented Weaver takes hold of the Fate of Heat and weaves a Thread with it. He uses this to ignite a warrior attacking him, sending the man shrieking to the ground. The Weaver is unable to weave enough Force in time to deflect an arrow, however, and he bleeds out from the neck.

Example 5: A Hobb works as muscle for a criminal gang. She uses a Form Thread to increase her size and strength to near-Giant proportions. With this massive strength, she is able to obliterate several rival gangsters with little effort, literally juicing their bodies with her powerful strikes. She later is ambushed in the street by a Weaver. The Hobb tries to thread heat, but the shot misses, even with careful aim. As long as the Weaver remains a few feet away, he is nearly untouchable. She tries to get away, threading gravity downward in an attempt to fly. As she cannot feel strings too far away, she is unable to sense how weak the surrounding building is, and it collapses on top of her.

Spoiler: OLD POST

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I tend to make a lot of settings, for a multitude of purposes. This time, I am looking to build a setting to write short stories in. One major aspect of any world, I think, is the Magic. Magic can be one of the greatest forces in a world, and so it needs to be developed. What I have here is a skeleton of a Magic System. I am looking for feedback. Specifically, I am looking for potential weaknesses and limitations for the system (can't think of any at the moment) to make it more rounded. As well, I am hoping someone will see a way to break or game the system. I need to know this so that either I can fix the stupid errors, or so the characters in the stories can abuse the hell out of it too!

Please let me know what you think, even if you think your comment would be inconsequential, glib, or critical. Any comment helps me improve!

Spoiler: Da system of Magick

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The world is composed of strings. These strings come in three varieties: Form, Force, and Function. Form Strings control What Things Are. Solid or permeable, human or animal, tall or short, man or woman, stone or flesh. Function Strings control Who You Are. Memories, love, hate, perception, intelligence. Force Strings control the Forces Which Act Upon You. Heat, electromagnetism, gravity, time.

A Weaver is someone who can perceive and ‘pluck’ these strings. Weavers can push or pull on strings, or they can control how the string functions, or they can alter the thread itself into something else. This is called Weaving or Threading. A Thread is a cluster of strings being Threaded at once, also known to some as a Spell. It is also another term for The Weave, the field of strings that fill the visible and invisible universe. Threads last only as long as the Weaver concentrates on them.

A Weaver can tie threads and strings of any sort into Knots. A Knot is a permanent spell, or an enchantment. While all magic fades in time, knots in the Thread hold a spell in place for years or even centuries (depending on the Weaver’s skill and power). Knots must be carefully Unwoven in order to be undone, and some are designed to activate when altered by someone other than their Weaver, such as an Alarm Knot. They can also be Cut, but this is difficult without a tool meant for such work (a magic blade, for instance). Knots can be woven together into a Web, which is a number of Knots working together to create complex spells. Some Knots can be made manifest and bound to a particular item or bauble, or into a physical knot on a rope cord. Unbinding the physical knot can release or cancel the spell, depending on how it was woven.

Spoiler: Examples In Action

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An Apprentice Weaver is in love with a girl. She is in love with another man. The Apprentice plucks the Function Strings which connect her to the man she loves and redirects them to himself. He ties a Sixknot, which is very powerful, in order to make her love him unconditionally. He isn’t well-trained enough to make this happen, and instead all her passion is redirected to the apprentice. Due to his mistake, she HATES him, leading to her knifing him to death.

As a counter example, the apprentice’s Master Unweaves the Knot and returns the girl to normal. He also creates a Fourknot around her memories of the incident, effectively cutting off those memories, allowing her to live a normal life, free from the guilt of murder.

A Weaver lives alone in a small cottage just outside of town. He seems very happy there, and no one bothers him. His house is always noisy with parties he throws for his friends. Too many friends to possibly fit in one house. If one were to open his door, they would find that he had Knotted (still thinking of limit of knots) the door so that it led from the cottage to his real home, a mansion by the sea. He bound the space between the two locations with a knot.

Another counter example, the cottage is larger on the inside, but it is still the cottage. The Weaver bound several interior spaces he has lived in together in a cord of knots he carries around with him. Upon entering a new home, he unravels the knots, creating more interior space than exterior.

A Weaver wishes to fly unnoticed. She takes hold of the knots which make up her Form and alter them so as to read “Eagle” instead of “Human”. As Form Strings and Function Strings mirror each other, she will slowly become more eagle-like the more she uses this ability and the longer she remains in this form. Eventually, she might become entirely an eagle, forgetting her former life.

Counter: An old Weaver, after a long time planning how he would do it, tries to Weave the Time out of his Form. He grows younger and younger, until he disappears entirely, having made a small error in his weaving that prevented a new Knot from catching and stopping the process at a point of his choosing.

A Weaver working as an assassin focuses on the Function strings that connect him to others around him. He creates a Sixknot of Perception, which intercepts and traps the strings going to him from other people. This effectively makes him invisible to their awareness without actually making himself invisible. He would have to force his way into someone’s attention to be noticed while the Knot lasts.

Counter: The Court Weaver hides the infant Princess as her father is slain and their kingdom conquered. The Weaver creates a Sixknot of Time around the princess, shielding her from all others save for himself. Anyone who sees her will fail to connect her with the lost princess, if they are capable of remembering there was a princess to be lost. The Weaver eventually Unweaves the knot, just in time for the princess to lead her people in rebellion.

A battle has broken out between two armies, each with Weavers in their ranks. A young but talented Weaver takes hold of the Force of Heat and weaves a Thread with it. He uses this to ignite a warrior attacking him, sending the man shrieking to the ground. The Weaver is unable to weave enough Force in time to deflect an arrow, however, and he bleeds out from the neck.

Counter: An experience War Weaver uses a touch of Heat to weave a firestorm that carries off a company of men. He threads electromagnetism into a spark of raw power and then flings it down a length of string, straight into the heart of an enemy commander. There is already a Sixknot of Force around the Weaver, which deflects any puny arrows that come his way. He weaves Gravity to fly high above the battle, and then he weaves a second thread of Gravity to crush one of the enemy warmachines into the ground.

[avr]

Counter: An old Weaver, after a long time planning how he would do it, tries to Weave the Time out of his Form. He grows younger and younger, until he disappears entirely, having made a small error in his weaving that prevented a new Knot from catching and stopping the process at a point of his choosing.

You know, this is exactly the sort of thing that would have been tried a million times before (assuming that the magic isn't new to this world) and would have books written/stories told about it. Immortality is a very popular dream. So - there will be a lot of immortal weavers, unless you postulate some force or group of people making it not work.

As for potential limitations, a weaver is made of strings like anything else in this world, right? Maybe pulling on a string casually pulls back at the strings that make you. Without care blasting something with fire could easily burn you to death too.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

You know, this is exactly the sort of thing that would have been tried a million times before (assuming that the magic isn't new to this world) and would have books written/stories told about it. Immortality is a very popular dream. So - there will be a lot of immortal weavers, unless you postulate some force or group of people making it not work.

I assume that messing with time is always a bad idea, especially one's own personal time. The example was probably exactly what people tell each other when warning them not to try it. I expect people still try. I would say that only the most powerful/skilled Weaver could ever do it due to the complexity of creating an immortal body/Time has a crapton of inertia to overcome. And it's still so complex that they might screw it up. It's like a 9th level spell, or an Epic one. Only half a dozen people can actually cast it, and it ain't cheap or easy.

It's far easier to make an immortal spirit by reweaving your Function to an object or space. But then you're a ghost. And I would imagine they have little resistance against being threaded by other people.

As for potential limitations, a weaver is made of strings like anything else in this world, right? Maybe pulling on a string casually pulls back at the strings that make you. Without care blasting something with fire could easily burn you to death too.

Could it have the opposite effect on you? Like, would it make sense that to set something on fire, you grow colder? I admit, burning to death is a great limitation/cost. I might stick with that.

But then what happens when you tug on memories or the body of someone else?

[the_david]

You mentioned 9th level/epic spells, which means you're using D&D 3 or 3.5 I guess. How are you gonna use this fluff? Is it just fluff, or are you gonna rebuild the entire d20 magic system?

The first thing I see is a words of power system where you should be able to make your own spells. (Like in Ultimate Magic for Pathfinder.) I would prefer spontaneous spellcasters over prepared spellcasters for this.
The second thing I see is that this could be a completely new system. Forget about ranged touch attacks, saves and spell resistance. All you'd need to do is roll higher than the DC of the spell you want to cast. Failure means the spell doesn't work. Failure by 5 or more is a fumble and something bad happens.
The third thing I see are players who don't like it if you just add critical fumbles to 3.5 spellcasting. Nerfing casters because they are more powerful is not always a good idea, especially if your players like their casters the way they are.

I also see a red dragon who suddenly has a weakness to fire... I can see potential in this system...

[Landis963]

You mentioned 9th level/epic spells, which means you're using D&D 3 or 3.5 I guess. How are you gonna use this fluff? Is it just fluff, or are you gonna rebuild the entire d20 magic system?

The first thing I see is a words of power system where you should be able to make your own spells. (Like in Ultimate Magic for Pathfinder.) I would prefer spontaneous spellcasters over prepared spellcasters for this.
The second thing I see is that this could be a completely new system. Forget about ranged touch attacks, saves and spell resistance. All you'd need to do is roll higher than the DC of the spell you want to cast. Failure means the spell doesn't work. Failure by 5 or more is a fumble and something bad happens.
The third thing I see are players who don't like it if you just add critical fumbles to 3.5 spellcasting. Nerfing casters because they are more powerful is not always a good idea, especially if your players like their casters the way they are.

I also see a red dragon who suddenly has a weakness to fire... I can see potential in this system...

It's for a book. Not a D&D campaign.

[the_david]

Huh, somehow I read novel as new.

Well then, the worst thing you could do is turn the main character into Mary Sue. Just beware of that and you'd do fine.

Now if you don't mind, I'll be stealing this idea and figure out some way to add it to a RPG.

[avr]

I assume that messing with time is always a bad idea, especially one's own personal time. The example was probably exactly what people tell each other when warning them not to try it. I expect people still try. I would say that only the most powerful/skilled Weaver could ever do it due to the complexity of creating an immortal body/Time has a crapton of inertia to overcome. And it's still so complex that they might screw it up. It's like a 9th level spell, or an Epic one. Only half a dozen people can actually cast it, and it ain't cheap or easy.

It's far easier to make an immortal spirit by reweaving your Function to an object or space. But then you're a ghost. And I would imagine they have little resistance against being threaded by other people.

Rich old guys who are worried about what comes after death will cling onto life with their very fingernails. My maternal grandfather had a lot on his conscience and paid a lot for another year or two of life, even though the quality wasn't much. For renewed youth he'd have done anything, paid anything.

If it might as well be impossible then it's not a big deal.

Could it have the opposite effect on you? Like, would it make sense that to set something on fire, you grow colder? I admit, burning to death is a great limitation/cost. I might stick with that.

But then what happens when you tug on memories or the body of someone else?

You're making the rules. If the opposite, freezing to death, sounds more appropriate to you then that's what happens. Burning careless weavers to death is still a possibility if they try to use ice magic I guess, or maybe if they try to turn an enemy to stone.

If you're trying to wipe memories perhaps some of your own risk being pulled into the subject. If you're trying to block them perhaps you risk confusing your own with the reaction to those clever little tugs and knots.

Empathic healing, where injuries are healed by being shared with the spellcaster, is a thing in quite a bit of fiction and at least one RPG (Rolemaster). So is life-stealing magic. And it might be that if you want to turn someone into a bird, it helps to have a bird handy to turn into a human.

[Balyano]

The process of weaving the strings and threads, is it done with thought, voice, movements, tools, ect.
I would assume a mixture, and would think movements and tools would be most important.

What if the weavers hands are the most important part, what if the power of manipulating strings is best focused with hand movements. If tying a knot literally involves moving your hands in the same manner that you would tie a real knot in rope. This would mean that the loss of a finger or two could be all but crippling for some spells. Of course they could just remake their own form strings to undo the loss of fingers, but what if an enemy takes them all, or restrains their fingers, they would be powerless. Binding their hands or cutting off fingers may be the standard way to imprison a weaver.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

I've got a magic for my novel thread going also. Would you like to trade PEACHings/brainstorming?

Yours is a lot less to read than mine, but I might be able to help, or inspire!

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Sorry I haven't updated til now. It was Christmas, afterall.

New main post is up. Let's just go down the comments I've missed.

You mentioned 9th level/epic spells, which means you're using D&D 3 or 3.5 I guess. How are you gonna use this fluff? Is it just fluff, or are you gonna rebuild the entire d20 magic system?

It's for a book. Not a D&D campaign.

Huh, somehow I read novel as new.

Yup. Sorry. I meant "Novel" as in "Book".

Now if you don't mind, I'll be stealing this idea and figure out some way to add it to a RPG.

I've been told by a friend that this system is almost identical to Mage: The Ascension, just with a different flavor.

Rich old guys who are worried about what comes after death will cling onto life with their very fingernails. My maternal grandfather had a lot on his conscience and paid a lot for another year or two of life, even though the quality wasn't much. For renewed youth he'd have done anything, paid anything.

I'm more open to the idea of Immortality being attainable in this system. It's still difficult, and it's still both time and resource intensive, but if you got the skill, and you're not using a method that kills people, there shouldn't be a problem. But again, rare and hard to do right.

You're making the rules. If the opposite, freezing to death, sounds more appropriate to you then that's what happens. Burning careless weavers to death is still a possibility if they try to use ice magic I guess, or maybe if they try to turn an enemy to stone.

If you're trying to wipe memories perhaps some of your own risk being pulled into the subject. If you're trying to block them perhaps you risk confusing your own with the reaction to those clever little tugs and knots.

Empathic healing, where injuries are healed by being shared with the spellcaster, is a thing in quite a bit of fiction and at least one RPG (Rolemaster). So is life-stealing magic. And it might be that if you want to turn someone into a bird, it helps to have a bird handy to turn into a human.

I'm gonna stick with something intuitive. If you try to magic someone, a feedback could result in that spell, or its thematic-opposite occurring to you. Lighting someone on fire could either burn or freeze yourself to death. Trying to alter memories risks amnesia in the wielder or giving the target some of your memories. Turning someone into a bird could accidently turn your bones brittle and hollow. Etc, etc.

I feel that, in the case of empathic healing, that would be seen as an inefficient way to manage it. Perhaps Weavers could move injuries onto nearby objects as well? Or, as I would probably handle it, you can convert raw materials into flesh while increasing the patient's "Health Knot". Like, if there's a boulder next to someone who lost an arm. You can remove material from the boulder to fashion a new arm, and it can attach by ramping up the patient's healing factor. Downsides include the fact that it's still f^&&*ing stone! If you didn't do it 100% correctly, that guy's arm might shatter, or rock will get into his bloodstream and give him a heart attack.

The process of weaving the strings and threads, is it done with thought, voice, movements, tools, ect.
I would assume a mixture, and would think movements and tools would be most important.

What if the weavers hands are the most important part, what if the power of manipulating strings is best focused with hand movements. If tying a knot literally involves moving your hands in the same manner that you would tie a real knot in rope. This would mean that the loss of a finger or two could be all but crippling for some spells. Of course they could just remake their own form strings to undo the loss of fingers, but what if an enemy takes them all, or restrains their fingers, they would be powerless. Binding their hands or cutting off fingers may be the standard way to imprison a weaver.

Weaving is accomplished by hand movement and gestures alone (outside of "focus", of course). Tools and words mean nothing to a Weaver.

I love the idea of binding or removing hands and fingers of criminal weavers. There's probably a good mystery story there too: "The Handless Weaver!" It's also a legitimate concern for weavers since their entire identity can hinge on weaving. Thank you for the awesome idea!

I've got a magic for my novel thread going also. Would you like to trade PEACHings/brainstorming?

Yours is a lot less to read than mine, but I might be able to help, or inspire!

PEACH/Share away! I'd love to hear some of it. What do you think of the revision?