5E Swordmage (yes, another one)

[miburo]

Yup, there are a lot of homebrew 5e Swordmages out there, but the ones I've seen haven't fit the picture I've been going for. What I'd like to do is create something similar to a Fighter 11/Wizard 9, but as a single half caster class that combines spellcasting and melee attacks, balanced against EK/valor bard/paladin, is fun to play with at low and high levels, and that fits some of the flavor of 3.5E and 4E gishes.

Edit: Lots of changes in the Google doc since the last time I made this post. Check out the link below for the latest version:

Here's the Google Doc link: 5E Swordmage Google Doc

[bloodshed343]

The primary problem with this is the spell list. It should be cut down. Particularly Levitate is not suitable for a Gish. For a compare/contrast, see my Eldritch Knight class I listed in another thread.

Another problem I see is that the Swordmage doesn't gain a magical weapon attack like other gishes do.

I think the reason there are so many is because a Swordmage is different things to different people. I wanted a caster who fights, so I made something primarily magical. Some people want a fighter who casts spells, so they make something primarily weapon based.

[AuraTwilight]

I dunno, Levitate seems perfectly fine to me. And it sure as hell gets magical enhancements for it's weapon damage at 11th level.

[bloodshed343]

I dunno, Levitate seems perfectly fine to me. And it sure as hell gets magical enhancements for it's weapon damage at 11th level.

Ahh, missed the elemental scourge.

Still, that's too late considering Eldritch Knight gets it at 7 and warlock gets it at 3.

How about giving them elemental Scourge at 5 and bumping up its power at 11 and 17.

[miburo]

Wait, I'm a bit confused, what magic weapon does the EK get at 7th level? And aside from the Bladelock, what other gish classes get a magic weapon? Also, you can always cast Magic Weapon spell once you reach 5th level.

Agreed that the Swordmage (and gishes in general) mean different things to different people. Mine is just one interpretation--tried to do a roughly 50/50 blend of fighter/caster.

Also not averse to dropping spells from the spell list, but having a really hard time figuring out which ones to drop. Appreciate comments on this.

Another question: Is Spellsword Flourish too powerful with cantrips, to the point that no one would ever use the extra attacks after 10th level? I am considering making it usable only for 1st level spells and above.

There are some other changes I'm thinking of making to the Archetypes:
- 3rd Level: By default, Give the Channeling Swordmage Dueling fighting style, and the Shielding Swordmage the Protection fighting style
- 7th Level: Make the Channeling ability not about cantrips and instead somewhat similar to a Paladin's Smite (at-will +XdY damage per spell slot expended and advantage on attack roll, but must expend before attack roll)
- 7th Level: Make the Aegis of Shielding at-will rather than once per short rest (seems a bit underwhelming right now), but still make the 14th level Assaulting ability limited to short rest use.

Thoughts?

[Draken]

Ahh, missed the elemental scourge.

Still, that's too late considering Eldritch Knight gets it at 7 and warlock gets it at 3.

How about giving them elemental Scourge at 5 and bumping up its power at 11 and 17.

Extra Attack at level 5 and a damage boost mechanic at 11 is standard form for spellcasting weapon users, actually.

[bloodshed343]

Extra Attack at level 5 and a damage boost mechanic at 11 is standard form for spellcasting weapon users, actually.

Yes, but every other gish gets a way to bypass non-magical B/P/S resist by 7th level. The warlock's pact blade counts as magical and the Eldritch Knight gets a feature at 7th that makes his attacks magical. Even moon druids can turn their natural weapons in wildshape magical before 11.

[miburo]

...so EKs get War Magic at 7th level so they can cast a cantrip and attack, but that doesn't make their weapon attack magical. And again, you can always cast Magic Weapon if you really need it...

Would also still appreciate any comments on the potential changes to Spellsword Flourish (making it only work for 1st level and above, not cantrips) and the suggested Archetype changes.

Edit: The other way to bypass those resistances is to cast damage spells, of course...

[bloodshed343]

...so EKs get War Magic at 7th level so they can cast a cantrip and attack, but that doesn't make their weapon attack magical. And again, you can always cast Magic Weapon if you really need it...

Would also still appreciate any comments on the potential changes to Spellsword Flourish (making it only work for 1st level and above, not cantrips) and the suggested Archetype changes.

Edit: The other way to bypass those resistances is to cast damage spells, of course...

I was doubly mistaken, thinking that weapon bond came in at 7 and made the attacks magical. Also, as long as you have Shocking Grasp it shouldn't matter. I'll edit in some more critiques when I have time to look over it some more.

Spellsword Flourish kinda negates half of your capstone feature, since there's no real difference between attacking and casting or casting and attacking.

[miburo]

Well, Spellsword Mastery is more of an add-on to Flourish than being negated. Spellsword Mastery allows you to use the Attack action, so you get your extra attack as well. Thus at 20th level you can cast a spell and use both of your attacks per round, rather than just one attack.

I ended up reworking the archetype abilities considerably, made Spellsword Flourish for 1st level spells or higher (no cantrips), and changed Spellsword Mastery a bit. Instead of making it a poor-man's paladin capstone, it's now a continual ability but much less powerful--no more advantage on strikes and you still can't use cantrips for ridiculous damage.

The only thing left to do I think is to trim down the spell list a bit...

[bloodshed343]

The way I trimmed down my spell list is to come up with an arbitrary number of spells per level and add things that I thought a Swordmage could do. For first level, I decided on between 8-10 spells. I added all the elemental evocation spells because swordmages in 4e had elemental evocation spells. I added Jump because I think of swordmages as Jedi that should be able to force jump. Animate Objects is an obvious one because flying mind-sabers are cool as ****. I also see swordmages using darts, so I added conjure barrage and conjure volley.

Basically, keep it minimalistic, and only add things that fit your concept of what a Swordmage does.

[miburo]

The way I trimmed down my spell list is to come up with an arbitrary number of spells per level and add things that I thought a Swordmage could do. For first level, I decided on between 8-10 spells. I added all the elemental evocation spells because swordmages in 4e had elemental evocation spells. I added Jump because I think of swordmages as Jedi that should be able to force jump. Animate Objects is an obvious one because flying mind-sabers are cool as ****. I also see swordmages using darts, so I added conjure barrage and conjure volley.

Basically, keep it minimalistic, and only add things that fit your concept of what a Swordmage does.

That's great advice, thanks. I pared down the cantrip list, then started with 10 spells at level 1 and dropped one spell every successive level. My concept is more along the Adventurer-Archaeologist variety (think Duskblade or Wandering Swordmage)--combat spells, but also some spells around adventuring/travel and searching for lost lore. The forced # of spells coupled with the theme helped me remove some spells that, although nice, didn't fit in.

[bloodshed343]

That's great advice, thanks. I pared down the cantrip list, then started with 10 spells at level 1 and dropped one spell every successive level. My concept is more along the Adventurer-Archaeologist variety (think Duskblade or Wandering Swordmage)--combat spells, but also some spells around adventuring/travel and searching for lost lore. The forced # of spells coupled with the theme helped me remove some spells that, although nice, didn't fit in.

Looks good. I'll have to keep working on my Eldritch Knight base class because I've just discovered that my Eldritch Strikes ability can't be used with Haste.

[miburo]

Just realized what was posted here was a very outdated version of the class which was pretty unbalanced. Deleted all of it, and check out the Google doc at the top of the thread (or in my sig) for the latest version.