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    Default Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Welcome to the 3rd incarnation of the Crusader Kings 2 thread! The previous thread can be found Here.

    What is Crusader Kings 2? It's a Grand Strategy Simulation Game made by Paradox Interactive set in the Medieval Period of Europe and the Middle East. Rather than controlling a country or kingdom, you are in control of a dynasty. The purpose of the game is to make your dynastic family and legacy as powerful and prestigious as you can before the game ends or your family dies out. It is far and away their most successful game, and they have been continually adding new content and patches to make the game even better.

    The base game stretches from 1066CE to 1453CE and you can only play Christian Feudal families. The multitudes of DLC extend both the timeline and range of available characters, while also deepening the game's various events. Notably, though, most of the DLC content comes with a major content patch. Thus, the DLC content is active for the AI even if you don't own it yourself, and the patch still helps to improve your game and this all helps give the different regions flavor.

    Major DLC list:
    Sword of Islam - Allows you to play Muslim rulers. Patch added the decadence and Hajj mechanics for Muslims, and also deepened their flavour.
    Legacy of Rome - Deeper flavour for Greek rulers and the Byzantine Empire, unlocks Retinues.
    Sunset Invasion - Alternate History DLC which enables a major invasion of Western Europe by the Aztecs.
    The Republic - Allows you to play a Merchant Patrician in one of the major Mercantile Republics like Venice, Genoa or the Hansa, patch enabled mercantile trading.
    The Old Gods - Extends the start date back to 867 at the height of the Viking Era, and unlocks playing as a Pagan or a Zoroastrian.
    Sons of Abraham - Unlocks playing as a Jewish ruler, enables the College of Cardinals and adds a lot of flavour for various Christian and Muslim faiths and rulers.
    Rajas of India - Unlocks playing as a Hindu, Buddhist or Jain, with unique events for each. Patch extended the map to include India and more of the North Asian Steppe.
    Charlemagne - Extends the start date back to 769, and unlocks further customization of your realm's kingdoms, empires and allows the appointment of viceroys. Also enables Tribal holdings.
    Way of Life - Brand new, and allows your character to set a focus which unlocks certain diplomatic options and triggers various events.

    CK2 can be a difficult game to learn due to its density, and the game has changed and grown a lot since it was first released. Thus, many of the standard learning guides are not as accurate as they used to be. There are many tutorials on YouTube, many Let's Plays include explanations of the game mechanics, and the GitP community is running a succession game that you can read to gain some insight.

    However, there are some places/tips that, by consensus, are considered good starting locations to learn the game:
    -Start in 1066. Europe is more stable, you won't have Vikings to worry about, and the Muslims are not as united as they are in the earlier bookmarks.
    -Ireland, Scotland and Poland are all considered good areas to learn. Ireland is unlikely to be bothered by larger powers, giving you room to learn the basics. Scotland introduces you to the troubles inherent to managing your vassals while also having to deal with neighbouring powers. Poland introduces you to the troubles associated with expanding outside of Christendom while still giving you a powerful character and realm to fall back on.
    -From there, playing as a Duke in France or the Holy Roman Empire can teach you about vassal relations from the inside, where you can learn how to gain/usurp power.
    -The CK2 Wiki contains a lot of details about the game, as well.

    Happy Crusading!
    Last edited by OrcusMcP; 2014-12-23 at 05:22 PM.
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Don't forget Spain 1066, it's a good tutorial too.
    Another reason 1066 is so god is that almost all Karlings are exterminated.
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Quote Originally Posted by Sange View Post
    Don't forget Spain 1066, it's a good tutorial too.
    Another reason 1066 is so god is that almost all Karlings are exterminated.
    Indeed.

    When you start moving into the earlier starts, always keep in mind the following: "It's Krazy to Kick the Karling Klown Kar."

    Once you start moving up in the world though, that changes to: "Keep Krushing the Karling Klown Kar."
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    I remember exterminating the Karlings in my Bulgaria > Carpathia game, but then they just showed up as patricians in one of my pet republics somehow. It's not easy to truly exterminate the lot of them from an 867 start...

    Has anyone had luck as Great Moravia? I've tried playing them with the same tactic as Bulgaria (appease the angry angry Arpads before they grab land outside their declared CB until Arpad dies, then murder them all because everyone hates the new guy) but there's way too much internal trouble with your Slavic vassals.
    Last edited by Flickerdart; 2014-12-22 at 01:10 PM.

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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    So, i'm playing from the Charlemagne start in England and i'm the King of Kent(Felt like being different). in the last two in-game years, I made friends with the pope, converted to Cathar, and had the pope come calling to ask me questions about the Cathar religion with the nice addendum that it's good to have friends without prejudice.
    It's nice to see the pope branching out a bit...

    i have to say though, This is probably the most balanced map i've had in the Charlemagne starting date so far. The Byzantine empire is right where they're supposed to be, Umayyads aren't expanding deep into Europe, Charlemagne never formed Francia or the HRE, so central Europe looks like it should(a big fragging mess), The Caliphate has collapsed. there's no super-mega-uber powers in the world.
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Quote Originally Posted by Leecros View Post
    there's no super-mega-uber powers in the world.
    Isn't that going to get a little tiresome one you are Supreme God-King of Europe? It's nice to have a little endless horde waiting for you at the other end of the map.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Isn't that going to get a little tiresome one you are Supreme God-King of Europe? It's nice to have a little endless horde waiting for you at the other end of the map.
    What? You mean you're not the Supreme God-King of Europe when the Hordes arrive? You've obviously been paying this wrong all the time Tsk tsk.
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    I like dumb starts (like 1066 Volga-Bulgaria, 867 Great Moravia, Semien, or Latin Empire on the bookmark) so by the time the Mongols arrive, I've usually only just subdued my neighbours.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    To each their own. Personally, unless I have a particular goal in mind I will give away kingdoms that are outside of where I want to/can control to family members to have as allies. They provide more overall troops to your wars at the price of less retinue cap. Controlling half the world can get tedious after a while. I have a bit more fun making my own version of the Karling Klown Kar.

    Plus it's more chaotic that way, and chaos = fun.
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Isn't that going to get a little tiresome one you are Supreme God-King of Europe? It's nice to have a little endless horde waiting for you at the other end of the map.
    considering i'm a heretic who can barely lift a finger without half of europe coming down on me...somehow i think i'll be able to survive without the Umayyads threatening me with invasion.
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Well no matter if I lose control (temporarily) of a territory... Norway is going down.
    The king of Norway is now my primary enemy forever.
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to improve a lackluster group of advisors? I have mediocre ones and it hurts my ability to plot (And thus Destabilize Scotland and pave the way for the Conquering Irish to create their own empire?

    Also, I'm having trouble getting support for the plots. Aside from bribery, is there another way to get another person's vassals on my side?
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Ah yes, the old heretic in Britain thing. Did it with 867 Scotland into Britannia, but Europe did the old explodey thing so there wasn't as much threat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to improve a lackluster group of advisors? I have mediocre ones and it hurts my ability to plot (And thus Destabilize Scotland and pave the way for the Conquering Irish to create their own empire?
    You can invite landless courtiers into your realm. They are likelier to go if they hate their liege, love you, you are a relative, or they have claims that you can press for them. You can also get random events that give you eunuchs or Jews as relatively skilled courtiers.


    Also, I'm having trouble getting support for the plots. Aside from bribery, is there another way to get another person's vassals on my side?
    You can try to increase your prestige or adopt virtues that they respect, but that's mostly out of your control. You can also use your chancellor to Improve Relations and hope that they're the ones you hit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Inevitability View Post
    Greater
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artanis View Post
    I'm going to be honest, "the Welsh became a Great Power and conquered Germany" is almost exactly the opposite of the explanation I was expecting

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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to improve a lackluster group of advisors? I have mediocre ones and it hurts my ability to plot (And thus Destabilize Scotland and pave the way for the Conquering Irish to create their own empire?

    Also, I'm having trouble getting support for the plots. Aside from bribery, is there another way to get another person's vassals on my side?
    Make sure to marry off all your courtiers, matrilinearly for females. The more couples in your court, the more kids are born, the more chances you have of a good advisor.

    Also, lots of vassals helps.
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Also, it seems like people just... spontaneously improve. Maybe it has to do with just having a bigger court in general, but after a generation or two you can usually find a person with at least 15 in the skill required.
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Yeah, the Jewish exile and Eunuch events usually give good courtiers for your council, but also keep an eye on your courtiers' ambitions. If they have the "become *JOB*" ambition and they get it, the corresponding stat goes up.
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Well that worked out (adult now, btw):
    The Regent in question died of old age mid battle. I can't punish him, but anyway.

    Also, the CB for the king of Norway to claim Kemi ended before he could defeat me (good thing too, since he called in Denmark. I was severely outmatched).
    However, right after, half the kingdom rebelled against him, and I "altruistically" offered to support the rebellion. So, new family on the throne of Norway. Yay.

    Also, in the middle of all this I managed to wipe out the last family members of the troublesome Svarte family, ruling Gotland. The last heir died childless in my dungeon.

    My only problem is that I am chaste, but my brother has excellent stats and a good wife... so come the worst, the dynasty is in good hands.
    Last edited by Avilan the Grey; 2014-12-23 at 12:19 PM.
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    I like dumb starts (like 1066 Volga-Bulgaria, 867 Great Moravia, Semien, or Latin Empire on the bookmark) so by the time the Mongols arrive, I've usually only just subdued my neighbours.
    I was kidding, it does tend to get boring once you can do everything and just have to kill bloody peasants.
    Latin Empire is a really good start IMO, but my favorite is 'start anywhere in 867 and kill off the Karlings as fast as possible'.
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    A question; does anyone have any idea what's the 'best' learning start for a Muslim ruler? I'm trying to find a good mix of not starting as a country covering a sixth of the world's land mass while having some degree of survivability; I had a good run playing as the Umayyads, but I'm thinking of starting out a duchy, or at least a moderately secure count. No preference towards either tribal or feudal government.
    Last edited by Pokonic; 2014-12-23 at 05:12 PM.
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokonic View Post
    A question; does anyone have any idea what's the 'best' learning start for a Muslim ruler? I'm trying to find a good mix of not starting as a country covering a sixth of the world's land mass while having some degree of survivability; I had a good run playing as the Umayyads, but I'm thinking of starting out a duchy, or at least a moderately secure count. No preference towards either tribal or feudal government.
    1066 Volga-Bulgaria is fun - I don't know about learning, but everyone around you is non-Muslim, so you will get a lot of mileage out of invasions and stuff until they murder you!

    There are a bunch of Muslim states in Arabia but once the Ilkhanate comes, you're 100% dead unless you have the might of the Persian or Arabian Empire. Those event troop stacks are nasty business.
    Last edited by Flickerdart; 2014-12-23 at 05:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Quote Originally Posted by Pokonic View Post
    A question; does anyone have any idea what's the 'best' learning start for a Muslim ruler? I'm trying to find a good mix of not starting as a country covering a sixth of the world's land mass while having some degree of survivability; I had a good run playing as the Umayyads, but I'm thinking of starting out a duchy, or at least a moderately secure count. No preference towards either tribal or feudal government.
    Zirid Sultan of Africa, 1066. Lots of room to expand, but still have to be wary of both Christian and other Muslim threats. Very easy to get the hang of the Muslim mechanics while still being a fun game.
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Couple of controls and mechanics questions;

    1) How do I inspect the laws of my lesser holdings?
    2) Do you have any tips for getting people to accept my chosen candidate in elective sucession?
    3) How do people check how much territory they'd need to found a kingdom/empire?
    4) Do you have any tips for getting people to come to my court? I've tried bribey and matrilinial marriage, but the former is expensive early game and nobody will accept the latter.
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Couple of controls and mechanics questions;

    1) How do I inspect the laws of my lesser holdings?
    2) Do you have any tips for getting people to accept my chosen candidate in elective sucession?
    3) How do people check how much territory they'd need to found a kingdom/empire?
    4) Do you have any tips for getting people to come to my court? I've tried bribey and matrilinial marriage, but the former is expensive early game and nobody will accept the latter.
    Partial answer:
    2) Make them like you. It is easier to get a heir selected the higher Prestige you have and the more the Dukes like you.
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Quote Originally Posted by Squark View Post
    Couple of controls and mechanics questions;

    1) How do I inspect the laws of my lesser holdings?
    2) Do you have any tips for getting people to accept my chosen candidate in elective sucession?
    3) How do people check how much territory they'd need to found a kingdom/empire?
    4) Do you have any tips for getting people to come to my court? I've tried bribey and matrilinial marriage, but the former is expensive early game and nobody will accept the latter.
    1) Try clicking on the shields at the top of the Laws screen.
    2) In addition to what Avilan says, the candidate's age and stats play some role in the decision.
    3) For existing titles, hover over the "Create" icon on each title screen. You can find a kingdom's title screen by clicking on the name of the kingdom on any county that belongs de jure to it. Empires can only be found by using "find title", below the minimap on the bottom right. And if you want to create a new kingdom, you can find the decision and its requirements on your intrigue screen.
    4) Not much else you can do. The only other thing is to invite ambitious/dissatisfied people with claims, but that also doesn't work early game.
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    4) There were at one point descisions you could take that would create people out of money or piety. I don't know if they still exist since I don't actually have the game. Their stats were, however, usually sub-par.
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockphed View Post
    4) There were at one point descisions you could take that would create people out of money or piety. I don't know if they still exist since I don't actually have the game. Their stats were, however, usually sub-par.
    Yes. You can invite a Holy Man for 5 piety or invite a noble/débutante for moneys.
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Yeah, those are still there. Not going to help me get people with fantastic diplomacy to come be my chancellor, though.

    Hmm, can I sack an a councilor and temporarily leave their position open to make invitations more inviting to perspective councilors?
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Unless they changed it with Way of Life, that wouldn't work. Things like you having an open spot or them a "become chancellor" ambition don't count in their decision to move. Nothing other than opinion and your ability to press their claims does.
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Yeah, sometimes you just have no one good for a given job. It sucks, but you'll eventually have decent people from either your kids/vassals/events/random courtiers/etc.
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    Default Re: Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

    Quote Originally Posted by Narkis View Post
    Unless they changed it with Way of Life
    You do get a big opinion bonus for seducing someone!

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