Crusader Kings 2 Thread III: Keeping Up With The Karlings

[Flickerdart]

It's an...interesting world. Druze has replaced Sh'ia, Avar has finally fallen in the world's fastest Crusade, and the Aztecs have invaded and taken over Ireland.

Meanwhile, my Avars have converted to Catholicism and even had a Pope for a little while.

I like the events that the Way of Life focuses bring up, but it makes it really hard to tell the value of each one. For instance, Stewardship is a sweet focus on the face of it, but almost every event involves you having to pay for someone else's mistakes or making them mad at you, or throwing hundreds of ducats at new castles. Business made my character Stressed, and I haven't had a positive one from it yet. Family just seems to improve relations with random 13 year old cousins.

[OrcusMcP]

Business made my character Stressed, and I haven't had a positive one from it yet.

There's a really awesome trade route event chain you can get through Business, giving a buttload of money and a huge bonus to tax. It can take a while for it to fire, though.

[Guancyto]

For instance, Stewardship is a sweet focus on the face of it, but almost every event involves you having to pay for someone else's mistakes or making them mad at you, or throwing hundreds of ducats at new castles.

I dunno, I find that a steep discount on a castle is a pretty sweet deal a lot of the time, and the "choose whose opinion to penalize and whose to get a bonus to" usually pits some random nobody mayor against one of my important Jarls, and then gives me Diligent as gravy.

Intrigue-related focuses have the advantage that you actually have some control over when they fire, though.

[Flickerdart]

I dunno, I find that a steep discount on a castle is a pretty sweet deal a lot of the time, and the "choose whose opinion to penalize and whose to get a bonus to" usually pits some random nobody mayor against one of my important Jarls, and then gives me Diligent as gravy.

Intrigue-related focuses have the advantage that you actually have some control over when they fire, though.

How useful is a single castle, though? Unless you're an OPM, it's a drop in an ocean.

I don't think I've ever gotten the duke vs nobody events - it's always a noble screwing up some peasants' crops, and then I either cough up the dough or incur revolt risk.

[OrcusMcP]

I don't think I've ever gotten the duke vs nobody events - it's always a noble screwing up some peasants' crops, and then I either cough up the dough or incur revolt risk.

You're a medieval king and you're worried about revolting peasants? Are you sure you're playing Crusader Kings 2?

[Flickerdart]

You're a medieval king and you're worried about revolting peasants? Are you sure you're playing Crusader Kings 2?

Peasants tend to revolt at the most inconvenient times - such as when you're in the middle of a noble revolt, or a war, and can't spare the men to fight the thousands of soldiers that suddenly appear.

Although I've been doing a lot less warfare now that I've realized how easy it is to get people to pledge themselves to you if they're a Count and you're a King or Emperor. Once I formed Britannia from England, Scotland, and Wales, all it took to get Ireland was a purse of modest size.

[tyckspoon]

Although I've been doing a lot less warfare now that I've realized how easy it is to get people to pledge themselves to you if they're a Count and you're a King or Emperor. Once I formed Britannia from England, Scotland, and Wales, all it took to get Ireland was a purse of modest size.

Yeah, Counts will join up with their de jure King+ very easily. Dukes generally won't do it if you're a foreigner to them at all, IME, and forget about trying to diplomatically vassalize anything that's not de jure land. You'll have to go back to warfare if you want to expand outside Britannia's borders now... consider becoming a heretic. Maybe set up an antipope and either have fun with your pocket papal powers or piss off the entire Catholic world and push his claim for your very own vassal Papacy.

[Flickerdart]

Yeah, Counts will join up with their de jure King+ very easily. Dukes generally won't do it if you're a foreigner to them at all, IME, and forget about trying to diplomatically vassalize anything that's not de jure land. You'll have to go back to warfare if you want to expand outside Britannia's borders now... consider becoming a heretic. Maybe set up an antipope and either have fun with your pocket papal powers or piss off the entire Catholic world and push his claim for your very own vassal Papacy.

I'm considering heresy, but my grip on my dukes is very tenuous and Francia is breathing down my neck. I've been beating up viking raiders for a few years now, maybe it's time to pay Scandinavia a visit? What's the best way to get into Holy War range, forging solitary claims? Can I reach anything from Scotland's stupid little islands?

[Squark]

Major sale on Charlemagne - 75% off this week on Steam! I think it's worth checking out for $3.74. Victoria 2 is on sale as well, if you're interested in checking out another Paradox game, but its DLC unfortunately isn't.

It jumped up to $9.99, So I think it was just a mistake/miscommunication.

RoI is still $3.74, though

[GnomeGninjas]

The Pope is a jerk. I asked for an invasion of Castile, he said he'd give it to me, I spent 500 piety, then he denied my request for an invasion.

[Avilan the Grey]

The Pope is a jerk. I asked for an invasion of Castile, he said he'd give it to me, I spent 500 piety, then he denied my request for an invasion.

Was it the same Pope?

[GnomeGninjas]

Was it the same Pope?

Yes. I must have done something to change his opinion of me (or his opinion of Castile) in between asking for the invasion and him responding.

[Sange]

So, I was playing the Latin Empire for the xth time when I suddenly realized that I had forgotten to turn off SI.
As a result, I am now the Reformed Nahuatl Latin Emperor allied with the Aztec Empire.

[Flickerdart]

Well, I got my witch armies - about 1500 men in all, and only one of the witches is better than my existing advisors.

I have a bit of a problem - I'm matrimarried to the King of Castille (crowned by my knife, naturally). My heir is heir to Britannia but not Castille, which goes to the King's brother for whatever reason. However, I cannot murder this man, as he only has 3 people in his court and they all hate me. What's to be done?

[OrcusMcP]

Well, I got my witch armies - about 1500 men in all, and only one of the witches is better than my existing advisors.

I have a bit of a problem - I'm matrimarried to the King of Castille (crowned by my knife, naturally). My heir is heir to Britannia but not Castille, which goes to the King's brother for whatever reason. However, I cannot murder this man, as he only has 3 people in his court and they all hate me. What's to be done?

Hmm, are women able to duel?

[Flickerdart]

No idea - I took Intrigue focus thinking it would help me with skullduggery, but it doesn't really make a difference. I can't even spy on people outside my court.

[Sange]

No idea - I took Intrigue focus thinking it would help me with skullduggery, but it doesn't really make a difference. I can't even spy on people outside my court.

No, only on people within your realm.
However, if your husband dies, your son/daughter will have a claim, right? You could just wait for him to die and then press the claim against his brother.

[Cristo Meyers]

So that was anticlimactic...

I was expecting a bit more out of the Sunset Invasion. Sure, they landed with a metric craptonne of event troops, but thus far they've only managed to push as far as Scotland and now they're getting pushed back. Unless they can pull even more 15K stacks out of their backsides I think they'll get thrown back into the ocean before long.

In other news, I've finally experienced the WHY WON'T YOU DIE? element of this game. Been trying to get the Emperor killed so his more talented kin can take over after flubbing up a succession, and he just. won't. die. He's been at the fore of every battle I've been in, had 3 armies destroyed out from under him, and not even a scratch.

And in map shinanegans...Iceland is owned by Lithuania and the northern Scandinavian coast is owned by Byzantium...I'm still trying to work that one out.

[Flickerdart]

the northern Scandinavian coast is owned by Byzantium...I'm still trying to work that one out.

When was your start? The Rurikids like to marry Byzantine princesses and also have relatives in Scandinavia in 867, so inheritance can work out funny.

[Cristo Meyers]

When was your start? The Rurikids like to marry Byzantine princesses and also have relatives in Scandinavia in 867, so inheritance can work out funny.

867, Duke of Toulouse, so that must be it.

If Byzantium keeps losing jihads, northern Scandinavia's going to be all they have left. They've just lost Anatolia and Georgia before that.

I need to figure out how best to go about liberating Ireland and Scotland from the Aztecs. Not sure I'm close enough for Holy War, but there's got to be a couple of dispossed claimants floating about. Not planning on holding the territory once I've freed it, so a claimant might be best.

[Flickerdart]

I need to figure out how best to go about liberating Ireland and Scotland from the Aztecs. Not sure I'm close enough for Holy War, but there's got to be a couple of dispossed claimants floating about. Not planning on holding the territory once I've freed it, so a claimant might be best.

Are you Catholic? The Pope may be persuaded to declare a crusade.

[Cristo Meyers]

Are you Catholic? The Pope may be persuaded to declare a crusade.

Ooh, hadn't thought of that. He might be a bit reluctant to listen, though. I'm not especially popular with the Pope at the moment since I keep hitting him up for money, and he's in the middle of losing a second Crusade for Jerusalem... that was only needed because I lost Jerusalem in the first place.

[Sange]

Personally I quite like SI. Makes for a fun challenge. I've seen the Aztecs take over all Europe while building an empire in India (which is, IMHO, the most boring place on the map, the religions are fun but nothing ever changes)

[IthilanorStPete]

Personally I quite like SI. Makes for a fun challenge. I've seen the Aztecs take over all Europe while building an empire in India (which is, IMHO, the most boring place on the map, the religions are fun but nothing ever changes)

Is India more dynamic in the 1066 start? In all of my 867 games, it's definitely seemed pretty static.

[Sange]

It's always static. Nothing ever changes there without player intervention.

[Cristo Meyers]

Yeah, I've never seen much happen in India. It always seems to solidify into one or two kingdoms and then just stay that way.

Personally I quite like SI. Makes for a fun challenge. I've seen the Aztecs take over all Europe while building an empire in India (which is, IMHO, the most boring place on the map, the religions are fun but nothing ever changes)

Part of what killed them in my game was they only got a toe-hold in Morocco, maybe 3 counties, and that a fair portion of what they did take actually broke away and became independent. What finished off their event stacks was that any time they declared an Invasion on the English Isles, the kings there would bring me into the fight. Sure, Ireland and Scotland fell, but both of those conquests cost them 30K troops each in smaller stacks they broke off to try and menace me in France. England fought off their invasion and now is even turning the tide. Heaven help them when I get involved, I'll throw them back into the ocean.

The Aztec troops were more fragile than I thought they would be. I was expecting much tougher fights but I was knocking out 10-20K strong stacks pretty easily, even when they managed to reinforce them mid-battle.

[OrcusMcP]

Yeah, India tends to be pretty static unless one of 2 things happen:

1) One of the hordes takes interest in India (there's even one that can spawn in Afghanistan, the Gazhnavids) and shakes things up.
2) Indian empires start to form.

It's hard to say exactly why this happens, but I think it's a mix of a few things:

A) There's only two ways into or out of India on land and they're very easily fortified. The Indus river itself is super easy to fortify.
B) The Buddhists and Jains are religiously limited in their ability to expand against the Abrahamics, but it's really easy for them to expand within India.
C) There isn't enough variety of mid-sized Muslim powers in the region that can threaten India, and those that are there have much bigger concerns.
D) There's not enough natural friction in India like there is in the Mediterranean. forex: Europe has a lot of seas, peninsulas, coastline and chokepoints. This lends to some highly contested land. India is a big continent with a much shorter coastline and only the 2 chokepoints previously mentioned.

[IthilanorStPete]

Yeah, India tends to be pretty static unless one of 2 things happen:

1) One of the hordes takes interest in India (there's even one that can spawn in Afghanistan, the Gazhnavids) and shakes things up.
2) Indian empires start to form.

Even with the formation of an empire, things tend to stay the same in my experience. Usually one of the Jain kingdoms in the south founds the Deccan Empire, then just sits there.

It's hard to say exactly why this happens, but I think it's a mix of a few things:

A) There's only two ways into or out of India on land and they're very easily fortified. The Indus river itself is super easy to fortify.
B) The Buddhists and Jains are religiously limited in their ability to expand against the Abrahamics, but it's really easy for them to expand within India.
C) There isn't enough variety of mid-sized Muslim powers in the region that can threaten India, and those that are there have much bigger concerns.
D) There's not enough natural friction in India like there is in the Mediterranean. forex: Europe has a lot of seas, peninsulas, coastline and chokepoints. This lends to some highly contested land. India is a big continent with a much shorter coastline and only the 2 chokepoints previously mentioned.

I think Jainism is a major factor; it keeps things stable, so major powers don't break up, but doesn't expand that well.

[OrcusMcP]

Even with the formation of an empire, things tend to stay the same in my experience. Usually one of the Jain kingdoms in the south founds the Deccan Empire, then just sits there.

I think Jainism is a major factor; it keeps things stable, so major powers don't break up, but doesn't expand that well.

Mileages vary on the empires, I suppose. I've seen it go either way. You're probably right about Jainism.

[Flickerdart]

I wouldn't be surprised if there's some AI finagling to keep India from spreading into the Middle East - Paradox probably didn't want to ruin the balance of power there.

Edit: So, uh...apparently, Baron-level characters can be independent! Behold, the Bishopric of Krk!

Spoiler

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Looking at Senj, you can see two more tiny shields - an independent Temple and City - next to their county capital's crest.

Also, my demon empress finally died. Other than the witches she got re-possessed after getting exorcised, and was cured of being infirm twice through Satanic powers. Sadly she did not outlive her husband, who keeps getting new heirs somehow even though I keep murdering them. The new guy has a pretty awful stat spread (the empress gave birth to two Geniuses but neither inherited) but at least he's not cursed with a -20 opinion mod like his mother and grandmother.