Magic systems!

[tiro]

Hi everyone,

i'm tinkering with my magic system, its nothing new or original, more like regruoping stuff :)
but i'm stuck with one dilema of naming a magic branch.

the simple idea is that magic has 3 suorces of power (3 path a mage can take) the problem is with naming some of those paths.

1st. is "Blood magic", kinda self explanatory, those good enough with Blood magic can further specialize more deeply to become Necromancer or Healer.

2nd. is Elemental magic (Air, fire, earth, water) there starts the problem with furhter specializasions, i know i can just take pyromancer, aeromancer etc. etc. aproach, but i would like to have 2 or 3 maximum focus paths without heavy emphasis on the element itself. So far my thoghts are circling around naming those paths as: Redmage (fire/air more aggresive passionate philosofy to magic) and Bluemage (earth/water calm and disciplined philosophy) any ideas?

3rd. now there is the real problem, 3rd source of power is wildlife (flora/fauna) and thus i need a name for this 3rd magic pilar, i know i can just slam Nature magic to it and be done, but it tastes somewhat bad, and too wide, becouse in my eyes Nature magic also includes elemental magic and to an extent blood magic too. So i'm trying to find a suitable name for it, however furher specializations is kinda clear, one good enough with 3rd pillar of magic can become Druid, Shamas or Witch (witch is dabatable and can be droped in future)

So as it stands now it looks something like this:

........................................(Necromanc er)
....................................../
................(Blood magic) - (Healer)
............./
............/................................(Red Mage)???
........../................................./
.Magic ----(Elemental magic) - (Blue Mage)???
..........\
............\.................................(Dru id)
..............\............................../
................(Nature magic)??? - (Shaman)
.............................................\
...............................................(Wi tch?)

so eny ideas/help with naming those paths with 3 question marks :)

[AvatarVecna]

Spoiler: Firstly, naming advice:

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1a) The way they are currently described, you could easily rename "Red Mage" and "Blue Mage" as "Sorcerer" and "Wizard", respectively. Classically, "Wizards" learn magic by practicing magical theory until the complex formulas involved in manipulating magical energy become second nature. In contrast, a "Sorcerer" doesn't learn magic, they simply have magic; their power is a part of who they are, and comes as naturally as breathing.

1b) Alternatively, rather than "Blue/Red Mage", you could call them "Light/Dark Mage" magic, ala Harry Potter/Star Wars. In the HP universe, Light/Dark magicks are generally associated with Good/Evil; in the SW universe, it's much the same. That said, both universes contain examples of Evil Light wielders and Good Dark wielders, so these aren't absolutes. I've seen decent arguments claiming that Light/Dark magic/Force is more comparable to Law/Chaos than it is to Good/Evil; if you go this route, I'd recommend building it that way. Please note that, should we delve deeper into your purpose and intentions for this magic system, I'm almost definitely going to go into more detail about Light/Dark magic.

2a) "Nature Magic" seems a rather fitting description, although I can understand how it causes problems when presented as an alternative to "Elemental Magic", which seems like it would be a specialty of "Nature Magic". Assuming "Nature Magic" isn't sufficient, I'd suggest changing it to "Primal Magic" or "Divine Magic". This isn't a perfect solution: "Primal Magic" is too similar to "Nature Magic" in that it would also logically include elemental manipulation; "Divine Magic", meanwhile, is about as "mainstream" as magical sources get, and it's a lot harder to define and limit than, say, Blood Magic.

2b) Alternatively, you could just stick with "Nature Magic" (or "Primal Magic", if you prefer) and instead change "Elemental Magic" to something else. As it's currently presented, "Elemental Magic" doesn't seem to be about manipulating the classical elements; rather, it seems to be about using styles of magic based on philosophies that resonate with those elements. Unfortunately, I have no idea what you should call magic like that: "Philosophical Magic" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue; "Alignment-based Magic" sounds clunky and awkward, and may as well be called "Divine Magic" for how it would function. I don't know, maybe you could call it..."Taoist Magic"? That's about the best I can suggest on this front, and it might not even work for your purposes.

3a) What name to give the third "Nature Magic" depends on what the specialization focuses; to compare, the "Blood Magic" specialization (Healing/Necromancy) seem obviously to be magicks related to life/death, respectively. My basic thoughts are that specializations of "Nature Magic" should focus on plants, animals, and nature spirits (or fae, if you prefer). Obviously, the Shaman specializes in spirit magic. As for animals...I'd say Druid resonates with animals more than with plants, leaving the plant specialization to the witches...which isn't quite as good a fit as "Shaman=Spirits", but is still a good fit.

Spoiler: Now, if you're willing to discuss this magic system...

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So, I've given a lot of thought to alternative magic systems over the years, although I've rarely had a good opportunity to discuss and debate such thoughts. While the advice I've given above is the best I can give with the information you've given me so far, I could probably help out more if you'd allow me to ask some questions. If you're willing to discuss your thoughts on this subject further...

1) What's the purpose of creating this magic system? Is this magic system to be how magic works in an RPG, in a fictional setting of your own design, or is it for some other kind of project? If it's not for any particular project, did you post it here to discuss it with like-minded individuals, to have a record of your thoughts on the subject, or just purely for your own amusement?

2) Are you willing/unwilling to...
--A) ...change Source/Specialty names?
--B) ...add/subract Sources/Specialities?
--C) ...make this rather simple magic system more in-depth and complex?

3) Do all magic-users have a specialty, or could there be (for instance) a "Generalist Blood Mage" who doesn't specialize in healing or necromancy?

4) Is "Blood Magic" magicks related to life and death, or is it more/less complicated than that? if so, how so?

5) Is "Elemental Magic" focused on magically manipulating the elements, learning and practicing magic according to philosophies that resonate with the elements, or something else? If something else, please explain.

6) Is "Nature Magic" focused on a connection with The Powers That Be outside one's body in general, or does it more specifically relate to the natural world's power (rather than, say, the divine/infernal powers of the world)?

7) Since you didn't specify here, may I ask what each "Nature Magic" specialty is intended to specialize in?

Thanks for listening! Here's hoping we can continue discussing this interesting topic...

[Duck999]

I suck at names. That said, I would like to give some input on the classifications themselves.
As AvatarVecna said, Nature Magic has flaws. It seems as though it would be a subset of elemental magic, or elemental magic would be a subset of nature magic. Those are both things I have seen commonly done.
The elements in elemental magic also have flaws. If you want to stick to Earth, Air, Fire, Water (Which is fine), you should probably change the subsets. Earth and Air are on the line between fire and water. Fire and water are commonly define as water=blue (calm), and fire=red (Firey/Rage). Earth and Air tend to fall in the middle. They can belong to either. Assigning them specific sides of the spectrum could cause some problems. If you wanted to, you could leave it, or make it so either element can fall under either color, depending on the person wielding them.
Also on blood magic. It is not really that self explanatory. I have seen it used it many many different ways. Could you get a little more specific with that?

[Thanqol]

What is your key insight into how magic works?

[ELC]

Hmm ... interesting ... if I may suggest my own dichotomy based upon your work, my own work, and various other sources?

Magic
-Axial Magic (named since it is kind of a polar scale despite having three unique schools)
--Black Magic (i.e. control over death/undeath or "negative life")
--White Magic (i.e. control over healing or "positive life")
--Green Magic (i.e. control over nature or "neutral life" like flora and fauna)
-Cardinal Magic (named after the four classical cardinal elements despite having two unique schools)
--Red Magic (i.e. energy sources like fire and lightning)
--Blue Magic (i.e. matter sources like earth, water, and air)

[Duck999]

Hmm ... interesting ... if I may suggest my own dichotomy based upon your work, my own work, and various other sources?

Magic
-Axial Magic (named since it is kind of a polar scale despite having three unique schools)
--Black Magic (i.e. control over death/undeath or "negative life")
--White Magic (i.e. control over healing or "positive life")
--Green Magic (i.e. control over nature or "neutral life" like flora and fauna)
-Cardinal Magic (named after the four classical cardinal elements despite having two unique schools)
--Red Magic (i.e. energy sources like fire and lightning)
--Blue Magic (i.e. matter sources like earth, water, and air)

I personally think these are great suggestions, especially the last two. It seperates green magic from elemental magic, and much more clearly defines red and blue magic. I would suggest this for classifications.

[tiro]

Thanks everyone for your insights (avatarvecna awesome response! (: )

to clarify some points:

1. purpuose is to create logical magic system (more or less predictable) for my setting (5 years in making/playing)
for this setting i allready homebrew my own RPG system (without magic part)
i'm one of those who believe that playing magic user (as in being spellcaster) is destructive for realistic game play (unless all players are casters nods to "Arsmagica") and thus playing "mage" in my setting is forbiden for PC.

so im posting here to discuss with like minded about magic systems in setting/games and try to define mine own vision on what magic is for me in my world:)

trying to create simple basic structure to magic on witch i can expand in future.

2. ofc im willing to bend my vision on my posted structure. however the structure itself must consist of 3 parts with of one being blood magic, this cannot be altered.

Actualy with all your awesome responses i gave alot of thought about current state of magic. about the source of magic and the target of magic. And the more i think about it the more i come to realization that elemental magic is not a magic at all (in my setting) :)

ill try to explain what i have in mind saying "not magic". I try to make magic as "realistic" as magic can be :) so my main focus for magic is controling and modify substances, nothing can be created out of nothing or destroyed into nothing, thus for example controling water, earth or fire is actualy the same thing. this train of thought lead me to dich elemental magic all toghether and build my structure on 3 basic pilars of magic (for my world ofc ;))

Blood magic, Primal magic and (force?) magic

Blood magic- ability to manipulate internaly things with blood. alter bodies, heal, harm, animate etc,

Force? magic - cant find more suitable name so far, this is basicaly telekinesis ability to manipulate any objects externaly

Primal magic - ability to manipulate not living things internaly (plants included)

this allows me to dich "specializations" as necromancer or druid. these are only names for magic users given by those who don't understands magic.

Now on how magic works in my setting:

all casters must study magic, there are no spontaniuos casting, all magic must be cast while performing a ritual (big or small depends on the effect)

how it works? for example most iconic spell "fireball" in my world is kinda usless as you think of it. first you must have source of fire then you must perform ritual to create floating ball of fire using primal magic and force magic, and toss it using force magic. however, a heat sphere if mage is good at primal magic is much more effective, you just need to increase temperature in targeted location, the better you are at primal magic, the higher temperature you will be able to achieve!

So specialization falls on to how good you are at each of 3 pillars.

im trying to distance magic from good/evil concept as far as possible, im my eyes all magic is nature, and meaning is assigned by people. lets take a stone for example, is a stone good or bad? well depends on the person wealding it i assume :)) you can make flour with stone or you can smash someones skull with it, same with magic.


so thanks for your responses it realy helps trying to figure out magic for my setting, becouse when its not writen down its more easy to speculate of what really magic is in my world:)

p.s. sorry for my english, im not native speaker :)

[AvatarVecna]

Well, my first piece of advice is to post your request for feedback in the RPG section of the forum; you're more likely to get more advice, analysis, discussion, and debate if you post there.

My second piece of advice is to tell you to keep a couple things in mind when defining your system of magic.

1) Magic runs off of energy, and requires energy to work; where does that energy come from?

2) Once you've more thoroughly defined the power source, what is the general effect of each kind of magic?

My own very basic thoughts on the matter (my own ideas for a custom magic system):

Spoiler: Magic!

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The energy either comes from the caster, or from elsewhere (classically, arcane and divine magic); energy coming from the caster can come from the body, the mind, or the spirit, while outside energy sources can be boiled down to patrons (magical energy provided by a single powerful being), nature (magical energy coming from the natural world), and a symbolic domain (magical energy coming from groups of similarly-minded individuals). These can be referred to as "Blood Magic", "Psionic Magic", "Ki Magic", "Patron Magic", "Primal Magic", and "Communal Magic".

Unfortunately, I'm unsure what each type of magic should focus in; "Patron Magic" and "Communcal Magic" can vary wildly depending on the patron/community in question, and the other kinds of magic are either to narrow or too wide in focus to sufficiently define their abilities.

That's all I've got for now. Good luck with your custom system!