LGBTAI+ 54: A Full Deck

[LaZodiac]

IndieGogo allows personal things.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Well, first things first is to start figuring out your identity more concretely. It's not like you're expected to advertise to the wide world that you're questioning or anything.

Yeah, I guess this is the important thing. But...

That's a very personal decision you're asking about. Let's start with self examination (I know, that's what you wanted help with and that sounds asinine, sorry!). Why do you feel you must scream from the rooftops? Also, why do you feel you should not make it a big deal? Both are interesting and fundamental parts of you as a person (both answers I mean) and comparing the two may show you which one is most important, emotionally.

It's less that I feel the need to shout it from the rooftops and more that I've always been a very open person. But also ... I feel other people have the right to know? I realize that's odd phrasing, but it seems the best to me right now. And I guess that has to do with the work I want to do later in life. Which also explains why I don't want to make it a big deal. It's an additional factor in my life that other people can use to judge me. And while I don't personally care what others think, I can't let that sort of thing shape other's opinions. It'd be hampering.

Also, I feel that, people who identify as I do (at this point, seems like I'm about a 1.5 on the Kinsey Scale*) get ... discriminated on from both sides. Cis-het people are like "what's the big deal, you still sound pretty straight." And, in my experience, so are other people in the queer community. Additionally, there's stereotype I personally know some gay people to have that bi people don't actually exist.

* Only because I am in a committed relationship with a woman, and I have a diminished interest in window-shopping as a whole.

[Serpentine]

Spoiler: Confuzled

Show

Really? It's not the most euphonic word ever, but I don't spoiler "yolk" or "panties".

I'm also not sure I understand why people would object to someone describing a pre-op transman's genitalia as such. Can someone enlighten me?

Someone once demanded that "penis" and "vagina" be censored on here like swear words. So, you know, never underestimate...

[Jeff the Green]

Someone once demanded that "penis" and "vagina" be censored on here like swear words. So, you know, never underestimate...

Those are the sort of people that make me want to, well:

Penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis penis.

Vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina vagina.

And since people always seem to confuse the two:

Vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva.

Note the lack of spoilering.

[Astrella]

Most of the time she's not so bad, it's just, the hard part with my mom is how unpredictable she is. Like she'll suddenly burst in anger for the slightest things and stuff and it's very hard to like, convince her some stuff she does isn't ideal. But when it's not that she's fine.

[Delusion]

So, Eddie Redmayne is going to be starring in a Biopic on Lili Elbe, the first woman to surgically transition. He seems to be really enthusiastic about making it a touching, sympathetic, and accurate story of the love between Lili and her wife Gerda, and the authenticity of living as you truly are.

Thoughts about this? I know the eternal complaint is that Cis actors get Trans parts when there even are any.

Not only did they cast cis man for the role, which is extremely ****ty in itself, but apparently in the casting call for supporting roles they misgender Lili and only refer to her by her dead name. So all points point to extremely ****ty movie.

[Lentrax]

Most of the time she's not so bad, it's just, the hard part with my mom is how unpredictable she is. Like she'll suddenly burst in anger for the slightest things and stuff and it's very hard to like, convince her some stuff she does isn't ideal. But when it's not that she's fine.

Still, honey. It really isn't very nice for her or any of your other family members to just be randomly outing you to people.

[Beelzebub1111]

Not only did they cast cis man for the role, which is extremely ****ty in itself, but apparently in the casting call for supporting roles they misgender Lili and only refer to her by her dead name. So all points point to extremely ****ty movie.

I hope I'm not starting anything by saying this, but I think you're wrong about casting a non-trans actor to play Lili. Remember that the character will have to present as male for about half the movie. Besides that, the film is reaching a general audience about trans issues. That's not a bad thing.

What you're saying is on the same level as saying "Gay people should only play the parts of gay characters because there's no way they could portray a straight person accurately"

These kinds of politics are like a horseshoe, the further left or right you go, the closer the ends get to one another

[Lycunadari]

I hope I'm not starting anything by saying this, but I think you're wrong about casting a non-trans actor to play Lili. Remember that the character will have to present as male for about half the movie. Besides that, the film is reaching a general audience about trans issues. That's not a bad thing.

What you're saying is on the same level as saying "Gay people should only play the parts of gay characters because there's no way they could portray a straight person accurately"

These kinds of politics are like a horseshoe, the further left or right you go, the closer the ends get to one another

No, it's more like casting a cis man to play a cis woman. Or a white actor to play a black character. It's not about being able to portray something correctly, it's about furthering the stereotype that trans women are actually men. And I'm sure there are plenty of trans actresses who would be willing to play the role even though that means presenting as male for a while. And bad representation is not necessarily better than no representation. And I don't trust a film that already misgenders the main character during the casting call to be good representation. It could easily turn out teaching wrong things about trans people to the general audience.

(Lena, Sari, other trans women here, please correct me if I have said something wrong here! I don't want to speak over you.)

[Delusion]

I hope I'm not starting anything by saying this, but I think you're wrong about casting a non-trans actor to play Lili. Remember that the character will have to present as male for about half the movie. Besides that, the film is reaching a general audience about trans issues. That's not a bad thing.

What you're saying is on the same level as saying "Gay people should only play the parts of gay characters because there's no way they could portray a straight person accurately"

These kinds of politics are like a horseshoe, the further left or right you go, the closer the ends get to one another

The problems with casting cis man to play Trans woman are that a) it gives a message that trans woman are really just men and b) it denies the role to the trans woman actors who already have trouble getting any roles.

Why couldn't a trans woman actor present as a male for the first half of the movie? Stage make up, camera tricks and computer tricks exist. Or cis woman actor. Then there wouldn't be the message of "trans women are men" which there seems to be when everyone keeps casting cis men to play trans women.

And when casting call misgenders a trans woman I am really don't trust the movie to tell a story about trans issues t othe general audience.

[Beelzebub1111]

No, it's more like casting a cis man to play a cis woman. Or a white actor to play a black character. It's not about being able to portray something correctly, it's about furthering the stereotype that trans women are actually men. And I'm sure there are plenty of trans actresses who would be willing to play the role even though that means presenting as male for a while. And bad representation is not necessarily better than no representation. And I don't trust a film that already misgenders the main character during the casting call to be good representation. It could easily turn out teaching wrong things about trans people to the general audience.

(Lena, Sari, other trans women here, please correct me if I have said something wrong here! I don't want to speak over you.)

I wouldn't jump the gun and say that the message is bad without seeing the movie first.

If people jump the gun and attack the film for making such minor mistakes in etiquite that are really only known to those inside the trans community, Hollywood won't correct the mistake, they just won't make any more films about trans issues.

This movie is a good thing and a big step forward for acceptance, but you have to remember that it's a step.

[Lycunadari]

I wouldn't jump the gun and say that the message is bad without seeing the movie first.

If people jump the gun and attack the film for making such minor mistakes in etiquite that are really only known to those inside the trans community, Hollywood won't correct the mistake, they just won't make any more films about trans issues.

This movie is a good thing and a big step forward for acceptance, but you have to remember that it's a step.

It is not a minor mistake. If I make a movie about trans issues, or a biography abobut a trans person, I should at least know that using the wrong pronouns is a HUGE mistake. Seriously. That's not some kind of inside knowledge you only get after several years of being part of the community. And even the wikipedia article on Lili uses female pronouns, so a tiny bit of research should be enough to know not to refer to her as a man. I assume that whoever wrote that casting call knew that they were talking about a trans woman, so if they still used Lili's dead name and male pronouns, that sounds a lot like they don't actually care about trans people.

You can't know if the movie will be a good thing. It could just as well turn out to be a step backwards. I don't know if it will be good or bad, but trans people, especially trans women, have been presented in a bad way so often that I'm just reluctant to look forward to it. Especially after reading about all the mistakes they already made.

[Lentrax]

Reading about this made me think they were saying this:

"Hey look, it's a movie about a man who tries to be a girl, its gonna be amazing!"

Not:

"This is a compelling drama about one woman's struggles to maintain her sense of identity when everyone around her said it couldn't be done."

[golentan]

Reading about this made me think they were saying this:

"Hey look, it's a movie about a man who tries to be a girl, its gonna be amazing!"

Not:

"This is a compelling drama about one woman's struggles to maintain her sense of identity when everyone around her said it couldn't be done."

Huh... the article I read sounded very different in tone...

[SiuiS]

Copy the potato salad guy, host party in another state.

Whut

Most of the time she's not so bad, it's just, the hard part with my mom is how unpredictable she is. Like she'll suddenly burst in anger for the slightest things and stuff and it's very hard to like, convince her some stuff she does isn't ideal. But when it's not that she's fine.

Of course. Every abusive relationship has just enough bait to make sure you don't really think you're being abused.

Huh... the article I read sounded very different in tone...

Who knows? Maybe the other article is wrong and yours isn't. We'll see.

[Lentrax]

A lot of it is just my personal views on Hollywood, moviemakers and the handling of anything concerning equality in general.

[Absol197]

I will attempt to reserve judgment until the movie actually comes out, but I am somewhat concerned about the moves that have already been made.

Also, sorry about a couple of days ago, everybody. I was in a bad place. Thanks for your efforts to cheer me up.

Also also, yay for Tamsin hormones! Good luck with everything! I'm sure it will go great! And pictures; lots of pictures!


~Phee~

[Anarion]

I intend to reserve judgment on the movie. One thing I've learned, both from personal experience and watching others, is that it's possible to screw up really hard and still turn things around and make something good sometimes.

[Lissou]

I did have similar thoughts about the casting (that a woman, trans or cis, might not be convincing as a pre-transition trans-woman) but then I thought, unless they use two different actor, one pre-transition, one post-transition, it will probably be just as bad the other way around (the cis man won't actually be taking hormones so make-up will be used. Make-up could be used on a woman to make her look masculine instead).

But using the wrong pronouns seems more worrying to me. It's possible they were misguided, like a lot of people who seem to think that you need to refer to people with the "old" pronoun when you're speaking of them in the past (referring to a time pre-transition) and since they were casting for the role pre-transition they used male pronouns as a result? Still, you would think that making a movie would require informing oneself on the subject.

There is also the possibility that whoever was in charge of the casting calls screwed up and was misinformed but that the people in charge of the rest of the movie are fine.

I expect to hear more about the movie when it's out.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Reading about this made me think they were saying this:

"Hey look, it's a movie about a man who tries to be a girl, its gonna be amazing!"

Not:

"This is a compelling drama about one woman's struggles to maintain her sense of identity when everyone around her said it couldn't be done."

Well yes. It's Hollywood. Not some indie film, so what are you going to expect? It's just exploitation.

[Heliomance]

Mrr, my sexuality is confusing me. It seems to be shifting more and more towards straight. Already I prefer to fantasise about guys, and I'm starting to seriously wonder what it would be like to have a boyfriend.

I don't want to end up straight, I like liking girls. I'm confused and conflicted.s

I've just changed my OKC account to say I'm bi, and not going to be just rejecting guys out of hand. Scary.

[Lentrax]

I think it'll turn out alright, Tamsin. Things just have to settle down, and then you'll figure it out.

[Orcus The Vile]

About the movie, welcome to the "Not accurately portrayed in movies and media" boat there is space for us all here along with the non effeminate gays, non masculine lesbians and strong female characters...

Changing the subject, can I rant a little here?

Spoiler: Being forced back to the closet

Show

Yup, it is official... Coming out to your family and them being forced back to the closet again is a really sad situation.

I have to lie all the time about how that "thing" was over and I won't think about that type of thing again.

My brother(The same who threat to kill any and every guy I fall in love) keep checking all I do in the internet and on my cell phone and my mom just hired a hypnotist to "fix me" once and for all.

So overall life sucks. I can't just get a job a move out of my house since I'm Focusing on my master degree... And I'm 22 and never meet another gay person...

Overall I'm feeling like the first part of this comic:

Spoiler

Show

Only that I whould not sell my soul for a hunky boyfriend.

*sigh* sorry to bother you guys with such trivial problems.

[Lentrax]

About the movie, welcome to the "Not accurately portrayed in movies and media" boat there is space for us all here along with the non effeminate gays, non masculine lesbians and strong female characters..

Can I rant a little here?

Spoiler: Being forced back to the closet

Show

Yup, it is official... Coming out to your family and them being forced back to the closet again is a really sad situation.

I have to lie all the time about how that "thing" was over and I won't think about that type of thing again.

My brother(The same who threat to kill any and every guy I fall in love) keep checking all I do in the internet and on my cell phone and my mom just hired a hypnotist to "fix me" once and for all.

So overall life sucks. I can't just get a job a move out of my house since I'm Focusing on my master degree... And I'm 22 and never meet another gay person...

Overall I'm feeling like the first part of this comic:

Spoiler

Show

Only that I whould not sell my soul for a hunky boyfriend.

*sigh* sorry to bother you guys with such trivial problems.

This isn't trivial hon. If you need to rant about things, and you don't want to do it on the public forum, you can always pm me, or email me through my profile, k?

[Mono Vertigo]

Well since I kinda made my official come back in the other thread

Hey everyone. I'm back. I'm glad to see you again.

Spoiler: A short story

Show

Break helped a lot.
As well as the fact I went back to school one month ago (nursing school this time). I have the distinct feeling I'm doing what I was meant to do in the first place, several years ago. Which is great. I'm once more the nerdiest nerd of the students, but at least I'm not going to have rocks thrown at me this time, unlike high school. (Think James May levels of boring nerdery, but with less facial hair and a marginally better sense of fashion.)
Also, paradoxically, the events of early January in this country didn't leave me even more a frightened husk than before. (As a small reminder, in addition to being of Jewish decent, I also draw stuff. So I don't know for sure how I managed to be less afraid, but if I ever find out how I managed that psychological stunt, you'll be the first ones I'll share the trick with, because fear sucks tremendously.)

Being now in a much better place mentally, I am now able to claim that I'll be a decent person this time around here.

[noparlpf]

Well since I kinda made my official come back in the other thread

Hey everyone. I'm back. I'm glad to see you again.

Spoiler: A short story

Show

Break helped a lot.
As well as the fact I went back to school one month ago (nursing school this time). I have the distinct feeling I'm doing what I was meant to do in the first place, several years ago. Which is great. I'm once more the nerdiest nerd of the students, but at least I'm not going to have rocks thrown at me this time, unlike high school. (Think James May levels of boring nerdery, but with less facial hair and a marginally better sense of fashion.)
Also, paradoxically, the events of early January in this country didn't leave me even more a frightened husk than before. (As a small reminder, in addition to being of Jewish decent, I also draw stuff. So I don't know for sure how I managed to be less afraid, but if I ever find out how I managed that psychological stunt, you'll be the first ones I'll share the trick with, because fear sucks tremendously.)

Being now in a much better place mentally, I am now able to claim that I'll be a decent person this time around here.

Hey, good to see you. Glad you're doing well and enjoying school. What are classes like?

Ah, yeah. My family is technically Jewish so my grandparents have been talking about some of the stuff going on over there at the dinner table. Sounds pretty scary.

[Mono Vertigo]

I did have similar thoughts about the casting (that a woman, trans or cis, might not be convincing as a pre-transition trans-woman) but then I thought, unless they use two different actor, one pre-transition, one post-transition, it will probably be just as bad the other way around (the cis man won't actually be taking hormones so make-up will be used. Make-up could be used on a woman to make her look masculine instead).

But using the wrong pronouns seems more worrying to me. It's possible they were misguided, like a lot of people who seem to think that you need to refer to people with the "old" pronoun when you're speaking of them in the past (referring to a time pre-transition) and since they were casting for the role pre-transition they used male pronouns as a result? Still, you would think that making a movie would require informing oneself on the subject.

There is also the possibility that whoever was in charge of the casting calls screwed up and was misinformed but that the people in charge of the rest of the movie are fine.

I expect to hear more about the movie when it's out.

All of this, mostly.
(Also the option of using two different actors is still very awkward, unless they're identical twins, for obvious reasons, and also because it sends off the subliminal message transition turns you into a completely different person, when that's not true.)

Hey, good to see you. Glad you're doing well and enjoying school. What are classes like?

Ah, yeah. My family is technically Jewish so my grandparents have been talking about some of the stuff going on over there at the dinner table. Sounds pretty scary.

We haven't started the practical classes yet. All classes are very interesting so far (beside the legal bits of pharmacology, because I always was kind of bad with the study of law, but hey, can't be good at everything). The other students are pretty cool and friendly, too.

Yeah. Scary indeed.
The most awe-inspiring thing was the sight of thousands - millions - of people publicly showing their support for the Jewish community - alongside the other victims, of course - by claiming "Je suis Juif" ("I am Jewish") alongside the rest. I would never have expected that. It's hard to tell today whether that collective feeling has lasted beyond that day, but still, that it happened in the first place was truly amazing and unexpected.
I want to see more of that spontaneous solidarity and fraternity. I aspire to be part of this again (but without, you know, having to wait for horrible tragedies to happen again).

[noparlpf]

All of this, mostly.
(Also the option of using two different actors is still very awkward, unless they're identical twins, for obvious reasons, and also because it sends off the subliminal message transition turns you into a completely different person, when that's not true.)

Didn't Laverne Cox and her twin play whatserface pre- and post-transition in that one show? But I guess twin pairs like that are probably uncommon.

We haven't started the practical classes yet. All classes are very interesting so far (beside the legal bits of pharmacology, because I always was kind of bad with the study of law, but hey, can't be good at everything). The other students are pretty cool and friendly, too.

Yeah. Scary indeed.
The most awe-inspiring thing was the sight of thousands - millions - of people publicly showing their support for the Jewish community - alongside the other victims, of course - by claiming "Je suis Juif" ("I am Jewish") alongside the rest. I would never have expected that. It's hard to tell today whether that collective feeling has lasted beyond that day, but still, that it happened in the first place was truly amazing and unexpected.
I want to see more of that spontaneous solidarity and fraternity. I aspire to be part of this again (but without, you know, having to wait for horrible tragedies to happen again).

Yeah, I guess you do need to do the theoretical background stuff first. I might be taking a few classes like that to buff up my resumé so I can actually get into grad school next year.

Yeah...over here we got loads of white people involved in some of the marches for police shootings but it seems like most of them think that solved everything and it's over. So I dunno. Privileged people seem to have trouble remembering for very long that minorities and -isms exist.

[Anarion]

Well since I kinda made my official come back in the other thread

Hey everyone. I'm back. I'm glad to see you again.

Spoiler: A short story

Show

Break helped a lot.
As well as the fact I went back to school one month ago (nursing school this time). I have the distinct feeling I'm doing what I was meant to do in the first place, several years ago. Which is great. I'm once more the nerdiest nerd of the students, but at least I'm not going to have rocks thrown at me this time, unlike high school. (Think James May levels of boring nerdery, but with less facial hair and a marginally better sense of fashion.)
Also, paradoxically, the events of early January in this country didn't leave me even more a frightened husk than before. (As a small reminder, in addition to being of Jewish decent, I also draw stuff. So I don't know for sure how I managed to be less afraid, but if I ever find out how I managed that psychological stunt, you'll be the first ones I'll share the trick with, because fear sucks tremendously.)

Being now in a much better place mentally, I am now able to claim that I'll be a decent person this time around here.

Welcome back. I love hearing about stuff going well, and doubly so that you didn't get hit too hard by something you thought might have been a source of fear. Awesome all around.

[JusticeZero]

Yeah, honestly, I think they should have cast a cis woman to play her if they needed a big name. Then find a cis man that looks a bit like her to play the other side of mirrors. I can sort've understand the thought process that says that they need actors with proven track records over good fits,even if the results are invariably awful.