Question about the original version of The Hobbit

[Muz]

A friend of mine told me that she (and her roommate) both have a recollection of the Necromancer actually showing up in the original print version of The Hobbit during the Battle of the Five Armies. She said that was one of the things that Tolkien changed along with his correcting the story of how Bilbo got the Ring in Riddles in the Dark. The thing is, I'd never heard that before, and I can't find any mention of that online - though perhaps my search-fu is failing me.

Does this sound familiar at all to anyone else, or is she either pulling my leg or suffering from phantom memory? (She was also CERTAIN that in the book, Flil and Kili didn't BOTH die, to the point where we actually bet on it before we looked it up, so I'm suspecting the phantom memory option here, but...)

[Palanan]

I've never heard of this before, and it's certainly not in the edition I grew up with. In the original book, the Necromancer was driven out of Dol Guldur by the White Council, and never made an appearance anywhere near the Lonely Mountain.

Your friend's version might have been in one of Tolkien's early drafts, but not in The Hobbit proper as I knew it. I'm suspecting phantom memory.

[JoshL]

Seconding. I've read a pre-retcon version and the Necromancer gets no more mention than in the version we all know

[Palanan]

On the bright side, you have the opportunity for another bet here.

[Muz]

On the bright side, you have the opportunity for another bet here.

Harder to prove, though. I'd need to track down an actual first edition.

[Bulldog Psion]

I've read quite a few weird early versions of Tolkien stuff as it's become available, and I've never seen any mention of the Necromancer at the Battle of the Five Armies.

Not saying that such a version doesn't exist, of course, just that I've never come across it in moderately extensive Tolkien-delving.

[Legato Endless]

I've read quite a few weird early versions of Tolkien stuff as it's become available, and I've never seen any mention of the Necromancer at the Battle of the Five Armies.

Not saying that such a version doesn't exist, of course, just that I've never come across it in moderately extensive Tolkien-delving.

It would be odd though if it did. The Necromancer exists in the story to take Gandalf away from our intrepid heroes. Reinserting him at the end doesn't really sound like Tolkien stylistically. I would say Phantom Memory, especially since I can see how she would come to that conclusion for the climax, but I'm aware of no revisions in that area. If there's a version where Fili and Kili somehow survived the battle, it must precede Dain's insertion into the story, which would be rather interesting.

Edit: True or not, it might be entertaining knowing what she thought the necromancer does in the battle. Any physical description and whatnot. In the Disney Princess thread, someone thought Dumbo's mother died, and before we could hear the interesting reminiscence of how, another poster corrected her.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I have an annotated version which usually talks about large changes between the editions. However, there is nothing about this in there. In addition, I have heard no one mention this before, including a friend who owns a first edition copy. If it turns out your friend is referencing some early material, I'd love to know what it is.

[Muz]

It would be odd though if it did. The Necromancer exists in the story to take Gandalf away from our intrepid heroes. Reinserting him at the end doesn't really sound like Tolkien stylistically. I would say Phantom Memory, especially since I can see how she would come to that conclusion for the climax, but I'm aware of no revisions in that area. If there's a version where Fili and Kili somehow survived the battle, it must precede Dain's insertion into the story, which would be rather interesting.

Edit: True or not, it might be entertaining knowing what she thought the necromancer does in the battle. Any physical description and whatnot. In the Disney Princess thread, someone thought Dumbo's mother died, and before we could hear the interesting reminiscence of how, another poster corrected her.

She thought she remembered something about the specific reason for Gandalf leaving to deal with Necromancer stuff was to cut off the Necromancer's own army that was going to be coming to the battle, so when the Necromancer did show up he was without his expected reinforcements.

I wonder if she's confusing that with what Aragorn did to Sauron's naval reinforcements for the Battle of Pelanor Fields? Though of course Sauron wasn't personally present at that battle, either.

[Gnome Alone]

Gee whiz, she probably thinks the hombett was the one who slew the dargis.