I've recently been talking with friends about why the Pathfinder Rogue cries like a baby in any party with a spellcaster-anything they do, magic can do better, after all. But...it also got me thinking. Even with the Rogue's niche as a skill monkey more or less ruined with the birth of the Investigator, how valuable would normally useless skills become if there's no other way to emulate them? What if the various means of gaining Flight, Invisibility, Freedom of Movement, Silence, and opening doors were removed? Sadly, my personal findings are mildly lacking, but perhaps the Playground can point out what I've missed.

Acrobatics-Still lacking for obvious reasons when it comes to avoiding attacks of opportunity, but at least it becomes more valuable for maneuvering tricky terrain, such as hopping across platforms suspended over lava or other such things. Still an all or nothing, as the ones with nothing wait for the ones with all to toss a rope their way, or otherwise carry them across. (Portable hole, Reduce Person + carrying, summoned mount, etc.)

Climb-Becomes far more valuable for absolutely everybody. Even if the Druid's summoned/companion bird can drop a rope from the top of a cliff, one still has to climb the cliff. Still, it's not important to invest much-just enough to make a DC 5 check regularly.

Disable Device-I don't think it's possible to remove all the ways a non-Rogue can pass Disable Device, even without summons. Still, it needs pointing out-it'll remain exactly as important as it was before. Whether that was high or low in your game is anyone's guess. And locks can still be busted by power attack.

Disguise-Becomes less tempting with the lack of +10 bonii, but at least it's still roughly as important as it was in the first place. Possibly moreso, since the lack of magic auras tipping people off can now be removed.

Heal-Haaaaaah. Well, if you remove all the ways of healing hit points, you're a sadistic GM. Still, at least long-term care might come into play.

Stealth-Again, as important as it was before the changes. One person might max it out, but the sad fact is that Dungeons and Dragons is a team game, and it's difficult for a GM to handle someone going out on their own, even just to scout. So, unlikely to matter much unless you have some Hellcat Shadow Stealth mastery going on.

Survival-You don't worry about food unless something dumps all your trail rations. Worth one person putting a few points into, but no more than that.

Swim-Again, as important as it was before changes. You either need it or dump it, with little middle ground.


But...these are idle thoughts, and I'm a bit jaded. Perhaps these skills just aren't very worthwhile in the first place, and allowing them to shine just means everyone suffers more. Surely there's something I'm missing, and these skills might have their place in a poor Rogue's heart somewhere...