An underdark disaster?

[Bloody Peasant!]

I'm currently in the process of whipping up a campaign setting. Two of the major races in this setting are goblins and hobgoblins, and the origin story I have for the two races is that they were once a single race of proto-goblinoids who occupied the underdark before being driven to the surface from some manner of disaster, either natural or exterior. The underdark still exists today and is often used as a means of travel, particularly for those who wish to evade notice. Those proto-goblinoids who settled on the vast central steppes and foothills became hobgoblins, while those who fled to the nearby mountains and continued to live a semi-subterranean existence became goblins.

But I'm not sure what would have caused such an exile. The primary enemies of the proto-goblinoids would likely have been the dwarves, who are the major imperialists of this campaign and might have had reason to wish to occupy parts of the underdark- so maybe the dwarves could have concocted some scheme in order to expel them. Just as easily it could just be some great natural disaster, but I'm not sure exactly what kind would warrant the entire race leaving their home.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what could have caused them to flee? It doesn't need to be too detailed since this is well in the past, but it would be nice if it were something that could be reflected as an contemporary element of the campaign.

[redwizard007]

The first thing that springs to mind is wide spread volcanic activity. In addition to magma flows you have poison gasses, earthquakes, giant super speed shock waves, other underdark monsters displaced by any of the above, possibly fire/magma/earth elementals running amok...

This would to have been fairly wide spread to affect a significant portion of the goblinoid population AND something would have had to prevent the goblinoids from returning to their ancestral home after the disaster.

For that I recommend either a dramatic increase in quality of life once they were above ground and/or displaced (something scary) taking up residence in their old haunts. Drow, elementals, deep dragons, mind flayers, githyanki, etc. Obviously this is campaign specific... So who's a likely candidate in your world?

[Werephilosopher]

Maybe aboleths flooded the lower parts of the Underdark and took a bunch as slaves, prompting the rest to flee.

[Honest Tiefling]

I like the idea of Dwarves pouring motlen lava onto their enemies. Is there a way to salt the earth beneath the earth? Not sure how farming would work there. They could have just run out of resources there as well.

Another possibility is that another race lurks there and they were enough to cause everyone to pack up and leave or face a fate worse then death. The survivors never wanted to speak of it again...

Or the surviving goblins didn't leave as a whole race, they were exiled. And they don't know what happened to everyone else, maybe they just got separated as the proto-goblins kept travelling, or the area between got conquered by hostile dwarves, or other events distracted the surface gobbos from having the time and resources to keep in touch.

[Bloody Peasant!]

No drow on that continent at any rate, and as for dragons they're very rare and exist as individuals rather than as breeds, so if they were involved it would likely be only one or two, possibly with a host of minions. The rest could all be potential candidates.

I like the volcanic activity idea; it seems to fill most of the holes I was looking for. I think the hobgoblins anyway wouldn't really have had any desire to return to the underdark after a generation or two, as they quickly adapted to an equestrian lifestyle became one of the more prosperous peoples of the world, but the goblins are too few and poorly-organized to face any serious threat in the underdark, so while a few might have seeped into the cracks as it were, most would for now have to be content in the mountains. I do like the idea of some displaced foe against which some goblins might try to rally, however. It might make for an interesting thing for the PCs to either assist in or work against.

That'll be something for me to stew on.

[Coidzor]

Dwarven Magma Pumps. Gets you both a fear and awe of fire and also a way for the dwarfs to have been ***** and also a very scary weapon that the dwarves can bring to bear against their enemies/defend their fortress cities.

Only real risk is your players getting the Dwarf Fortress reference.

[atemu1234]

A section collapsed? Followed by war waged by Mind Flayers, actually the MMV ones?

[Toilet Cobra]

I like Red Wizard's poison gas idea. It's unique and just as realistic as lava, but it's even scarier because it's invisible and much faster. It also leaves all the... "splendor" of the old kingdom untouched. Maybe a team of goblins wants to go back in (with appropriate protection) to get something important, like a holy icon or a particularly large knife, before those dastardly dwarves open up vents to flush out the gas and then take the area for themselves.

[DrMotives]

Poison gas means that now a hobgoblin Indiana Jones only needs filter, a 2nd level spell, to go searching for the lost kingdoms of his ancestors. If they're going to be a primary race in your campaign, you really get more room to play with different tropes with them after all.

[Bloody Peasant!]

If the dwarves are the culprits, I would probably err towards poison gas, because as I mentioned the underdark is still supposed to be a place used for covert travel and what have you; I don't want the whole place to be completely uninhabitable, but I'd at least like it to be quite dangerous. The sites of large goblinoid cities likely would already have been looted or be inhabited by underdark nasties like mind flayers and what have you.

Oh and I forgot to mention that this is an e6 world, where primary spellcasters are relatively rare.

I feeeeel I had some other point here but I'm too tired to recall. Whatevah.

[Scolopendra]

So I am all for goblins and hobgoblins being main races and I kinda hate dwarves with a passion so I really like this idea but I was just thinking if you need some extra threat for the abandoned areas and a reason for not resettling beyond the need to vent the poison, what about hostile myconids? The a gaseous poison probably wouldn't effect them and would prevent any goblin with a gas mask from just waltzing back into the ruins

[Segev]

Flooding seems the most likely to me. Rising water would naturally drive beings to the surface or the mountains.

[redwizard007]

Flooding seems the most likely to me. Rising water would naturally drive beings to the surface or the mountains.

Never mention flooding in the underdark... There is no intelligent way to explain an unflooded underdark below sea level. That means significant portions of campaign settings are obviously a hand wave.

Real world caves complexes do exist, but they are nothing like the continent spanning underground networks (connected to the sea no less) that one finds in lots of published settings.

Rant over. Just avoid water. Once you draw attention to it someone always starts to poke at why the whole damn underdark isn't flooded by drainage.

[Scolopendra]

Rant over. Just avoid water. Once you draw attention to it someone always starts to poke at why the whole damn underdark isn't flooded by drainage.

As someone kinda obsessed with the Underdark and Darklands I always assumed that the reason the whole underdark isn't flooded is simply due to the large water areas simply having no connecting tunnels below water level that don't also lead to water... and I assumed that the large areas of water were created due to the water draining from upper levels into places where it finally settles

[redwizard007]

As someone kinda obsessed with the Underdark and Darklands I always assumed that the reason the whole underdark isn't flooded is simply due to the large water areas simply having no connecting tunnels below water level that don't also lead to water... and I assumed that the large areas of water were created due to the water draining from upper levels into places where it finally settles

And that's awesome until you start finding abeloths or shauagin in underdark lakes. Once salt water baddies cross from ocean to underdark (*cough forgotten cough realms*) or vice versa, than my suspension of disbelief dissolves like limestone under a steady rain.

[Scolopendra]

And that's awesome until you start finding abeloths or shauagin in underdark lakes. Once salt water baddies cross from ocean to underdark (*cough forgotten cough realms*) or vice versa, than my suspension of disbelief dissolves like limestone under a steady rain.

Well I personally find Aboleths anywhere but in underground lakes to be weird. If I think about underground lakes in D&D or Pathfinder I think of Aboleths( And Kuo toa and Skum but those originate in underground lakes as far as im aware). I do agree they really shouldn't ever have sahaugins in the underdark or similar ocean species. In my mind there are aquatic species that only belong in the underdark and other other aquatic creatures should never be in the Underdark

[Cruiser1]

Just avoid water. Once you draw attention to it someone always starts to poke at why the whole damn underdark isn't flooded by drainage.

The Underdark isn't flooded because D&D worlds don't follow real world physics. In Forgotten Realms, once you go deep enough in the Underdark you reach the Plane of Shadow. That means water never fills up the Underdark like a bowl, because water instead flows through it in a sequence of convoluted rivers on their way to portals to other planes. Other portals presumably drain from the Underdark into the Elemental Plane of Water. Surface oceans don't drain because there's a steady supply of rain and portals from the Plane of Water keeping it full.

And that's awesome until you start finding abeloths or shauagin in underdark lakes. Once salt water baddies cross from ocean to underdark (*cough forgotten cough realms*) or vice versa, than my suspension of disbelief dissolves like limestone under a steady rain.

Giant whirlpools sometimes open up from surface seas to the Underdark, which suck down creatures. Also, Aboleths are intelligent, and sometimes intentionally teleport themselves or otherwise travel to the Underdark, where they hopefully won't be pestered by pesky adventurers as often.

[redwizard007]

The Underdark isn't flooded because D&D worlds don't follow real world physics. In Forgotten Realms, once you go deep enough in the Underdark you reach the Plane of Shadow. That means water never fills up the Underdark like a bowl, because water instead flows through it in a sequence of convoluted rivers on their way to portals to other planes. Other portals presumably drain from the Underdark into the Elemental Plane of Water. Surface oceans don't drain because there's a steady supply of rain and portals from the Plane of Water keeping it full.


Giant whirlpools sometimes open up from surface seas to the Underdark, which suck down creatures. Also, Aboleths are intelligent, and sometimes intentionally teleport themselves or otherwise travel to the Underdark, where they hopefully won't be pestered by pesky adventurers as often.

Hmmmmmmmmm. Well. Just... Crap... While it screams magic hand wave, it holds just enough water (excuse the pun) for me to swallow. Is that cannon or just some creative thinking on your part?

[atemu1234]

And that's awesome until you start finding abeloths or shauagin in underdark lakes. Once salt water baddies cross from ocean to underdark (*cough forgotten cough realms*) or vice versa, than my suspension of disbelief dissolves like limestone under a steady rain.

Aboleths can survive long periods of time without water, so their transport that way is an actual possibility.

[Honest Tiefling]

Well, if you got portals to gods-know-where, there's your underdark disaster. Something came out of a portal, or something went into the portal.

[Psyren]

Hmmmmmmmmm. Well. Just... Crap... While it screams magic hand wave, it holds just enough water (excuse the pun) for me to swallow. Is that cannon or just some creative thinking on your part?

Underdark ----> Plane of Shadow (and I think Plane of Earth) if you go deep enough is canon.

[PraxisVetli]

As a fiend once told me, 'Always be Illin' if you want a villian'

(Illithids)

Or aboleths. Aboleths rock too