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Thread: Ant-Man Trailer
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2015-01-13, 10:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
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Re: Ant-Man Trailer
Yeah but he wanted to make his movie, is the thing. He didn't want it to relate to the MCU at all. Which...wouldn't be good for the frachise as a whole. So, a question. Do we want a good Edgar Wright movie that is a bad MCU movie? Or do you want a good MCU movie that is a bad Edgar Wright movie? That's the conflict that lead to Wright leaving, and from what we can tell apparently the movie is better for it.
Last edited by LaZodiac; 2015-01-13 at 10:49 AM.
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2015-01-13, 01:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: Ant-Man Trailer
This whole conversation seems to be based on actively ignoring that Captain Marvel and Wonder Woman are in fact happening. Nor is that some distant drawing board plan sorta thing like the latter was for a decade. It just simply takes a long time to actually make a superhero film once you've decided to do it. Or any CGI fest you want to look competitive.
As in like they are fairly likely to be hashing out entire scenes right now without even knowing the actor who's playing Carol because they need to get the effects started long before any human is ever filmed to meet that 6 July 2018 release date. Nevermind that movies aren't exactly easy to make besides the physical limitiations of CGI, its the world's highest stakes gambling and quite insane, its not suprising it can take awhile and movies bounce around for years without ever happening.
It is simply not possible to play "they should be doing X not Y" unless you are talking half a decade into the future and Ant-Man has been kicking around for much longer then that already so this complaint is a complete false dichotomy.
Also keep in mind that going back in time the closer you get to Catwoman. Yes I know all the counter-arguments here but even not suggesting the superhero genre has particular problems the record for female helmed action films is much weaker money wise, and that's all suits really care about. The change might well have more to do with the Hunger Games (sideways as that example is) as much as any change in biases or perceptions. Its right now still an experiment. I won't count on DC not continuing to be utterly stupid but if Captain Marvel succeeds then we will probably see more from Marvel... maybe before 2020 presuming they have ideas in development that haven't been announced and could hit the ground running.
Hollywood is a crazy business.
Sidebar: I could have an even longer talk on what Marvel/DC characters would make good stand alone protagonists too. Short version is honestly I think most are dubious.
A quick wiki trip tells me this also evidently has Stan Lee's support and he first wanted one back in the 80s before Honey, I Shrunk The Kids was out. A cynic might read this between the lines as a large scale "Alright fine, shut up about it already Stan!" effort after Marvel's now made enough they can write off even a failure or two and still be in the win column.
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2015-01-13, 02:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2012
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Re: Ant-Man Trailer
It used to be that way, but now you must have the "x-gene" in order to be considered a mutant (I'm speaking of a Marvel Mutants, not of real world mutants). There are loads of people who have been born with superpowers but aren't considered mutants because they don't have the "x-gene".
Skaar, Lyra (She-Hulk II), Quake, Slingshot, Superior (Bastards of Evil), Spider-Girl (Peter Parker's daughter from the future), William Nelson (Tigra's son), Finesse...etc., inherited their powers from their parents, but they aren't considered mutants because their parents got their powers from mutated genes other than the X-gene (Franklin Richards is an exception, because he was created when the definition of mutant was just "somebody born with powers" and his ascription as mutant was never changed by later writers).
What is more, of late, there are teens that are effectively mutants in everything save having an x-gene: They are children of normal people and have innate powers that manifest when they hit puberty, usually during a traumatic event (Mettle, Hazmat, Veil, Striker...etc.); however, these aren't considered mutants because they don't have an x-gene.
The concept of "mutant species" is stupid like that. During the Decimation storyline, Beast was angsting about how the mutants were going to be extinct because there were so few of them left, and Cyclops was becoming all radical over it, which is stupid because:
1.-Marvel Mutants can have mutant children with human partners. A single mutant could rebuild the whole species having children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren with normal humans.
2.-While they were angsting because no more mutant babies were being born, the Avengers Academy was recruiting all those teens that were mutants in every aspect save the lack of the x-gene. It was quite funny if you were reading both series, because the X-Men were angsting "woe of us! no more people are spontanously developing weird powers anymore!" while in the other collection the Avengers were recruiting all those young people who were spontaneously developing weird powers.Last edited by Clistenes; 2015-01-13 at 03:33 PM.
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2015-01-13, 02:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: Ant-Man Trailer
Its comics expect answers to vary by which decade you are talking about and just that there's never been editorial purity on such matters.
If you aren't in an X-book you will "strangely" run into far fewer bigots out to get you for it, Marvel has traditionally ghettoed the concept for maximum irony. Unless I'm mistaken and the Avengers ran with that theme a lot more back in the day with the Maximoffs.
Now watch Marvel quietly try to do away with the whole idea because they can't MCU it.
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2015-01-13, 02:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
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Re: Ant-Man Trailer
I, for one, am sick of seeing nothing but male main characters. Particularly when they are scraping the bottom of the barrel to the point of doing an Ant-Man movie, yet don't give an interesting female character any screen time.
At this point, it's almost like they're saying, "Any male character, even a cipher like Ant-Man, is preferable as a focus for our resources than a female character."
That is not an acceptable viewpoint on the part of filmmakers, IMO.Spoiler
So the song runs on, with shift and change,
Through the years that have no name,
And the late notes soar to a higher range,
But the theme is still the same.
Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
Blend in with the old, old rhyme
That was traced in the score of the strata marks
While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
Down the winds of unguessed time. -- 4th Stanza, The Bad Lands, Badger Clark
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2015-01-13, 03:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
Re: Ant-Man Trailer
Every so often this comes up on the forum in a conversation, and I end up referring back to this. The whole “Pym: Wife beater” thing started because of a miscommunication between writer Jim Shooter and drawer Bob Hall.
Now don’t get me wrong. The way he treated her before then was pretty deplorable, but was also pretty typical (unfortunately) of the way a lot of female super heroes were handled at the time. But no matter what came after, some writers tried to undo the abuse, and some took it and ran with it. And as a result you ended up with one of the more inconsistent characters in the Marvel universe. And we won’t even get started on Ultimates…
So I’m always conflicted on Pym. Later material certainly establishes him as one of the Marvel universes biggest losers. But the whole thing starts as a mistake, with no one having the guts to just come out (at the time) and say “hey, we drew something we didn’t intend to”.
I guess my point is, it’s unfortunate that his defining moment is going to be “Hank Pym: Wife Beater” when that was a drawing mistake."That's a horrible idea! What time?"
T-Shirt given to me by a good friend.. "in fairness, I was unsupervised at the time".
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2015-01-13, 03:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: Ant-Man Trailer
No, what they're saying is that the idea of an Ant-man movie inspired certain individuals in the film-making business, and those individuals did a good enough job selling the idea to the high muckety-mucks to get them to fund it. Edgar Wright didn't sit around 12 years ago and go, "Hmm, what's a male superhero I can make a movie about?" He learned about Ant-man, and that happned to inspire the idea for a movie.
Also, Ant-man is really far from the bottom of the barrel. The orginal incarnation of Ant-man is a founding member of the Avengers even!Thanks to Elrond for the Vash avatar.
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2015-01-13, 04:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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2015-01-13, 06:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: Ant-Man Trailer
So then you're putting up the $200 million dollars to see a property developed in a (traditionally) under-performing class of movie? Or is this list making some glaring omission that earned a bunch of money?
Or was in order the list really Katniss, Ahhnold, Angelina Jolie, and that Katniss clone from Divergent? I have to go down to number 7 (and already nothing money today) to reach someone that's even maybe an a good model for a superhero movie with Tomb Raider which is Angelina again. Should I dare to compare how with the superhero list?
I don't claim to like this at all... and there's some chicken-and-egg factor that nobody's done it so few try... but the simple fact is still that traditionally women are simply not action spectacle movie draws. Its been tried, its even been done halfway well, but its just not worth the same level of money. Blame America, not studios because they're the ones that generate those numbers. Studios are the ones that have to gamble on what America will give money too.
Now not all is lost because if nothing else... hey somebody put Katniss on that first list, anything with a female protagionist performing just as well (and on a healthier budget) as traditionally male helmed blockbusters is an important sign. Now "tween-lit" is probably not the most natural bridge but this so much better then it was even five years ago. It means the market IS THERE it just has to be tapped with the proper story and that somebody is willing to support leading ladies like they traditionally haven't
You've got something more directly applicable with Lucy on there I've oft seen described as a backdoor Black Widow movie, and its a budget smash success that did very well for a modest budget. So what happens you add a mega-budget, top rate marketing, and a conjure-with name like the Marvel brand?
I think my elevator pitch for a superheroine movie is a lot stronger then it was.
Course that will all depend on if the experiments being tried... actually working.
Also they've been selling it since well before depleting much of said barrel.
You're referring to Yondu then? He was the only one obscure enough a lot of the comic nerds probably didn't realize unless they'd wiki'd the Guardians before hand.
Drax and Gamora are mainstays of cosmic Marvel for years now and when GotG (the comic that the movie is based on) was launched it was helmed by Star Lord who'd been busy being really awesome since Annihilation and its sequel Conquest so was ripe for it. Rocket and Groot had been dormant and obscure but had parts before in Conquest so were perfectly fine to round out a team. The result so help me was fairly well received. In general cosmic Marvel had been really awesome for year at the time I left comics so was ripe for mining ideas to turn into a movie.
Nothing bottom of the barrel from the comic nerd perspective at all.
The general public yeah easy joke, but the general public don't know how deep the barrel actually goes.
They greenlight Cloak and Dagger or Jack of Hearts and I'll still say we've got a way to go to reach Razorback and other such jokes. And on the Marvel end... yeah they're tapped basically for public awareness now anyways. Even the Avengers had a certain note of scraping deeper into the barrel because Marvel is (or was) Spidey and X-men.
One might argue that the MCU is seeing more success with reaching outside of public awareness, Iron Man was still on the A-list sure but I doubt I'd put him higher then the middle of said A-list.
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2015-01-13, 06:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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2015-01-13, 06:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Ant-Man Trailer
As you said I went for the quick, easy joke; however that isn't completely applicable in general, I consider myself a comic nerd... well a nerd in general, but I didn't know about the GotG till the movie was announced, why? Because I'm relatively young (22 years old), I started getting "seriously" into comic-books until recently (about 4-5 years ago more or less) and because getting comics here in Mexico was hard until a couple years ago. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who is or was in a similar situation. Jokes aside, my main point is that while that particular instance of the Guardians wasn't particularly obscure to people in the know, there were a lot of people, even comic fans, that had never heard of them before.
And the thing is that Ant-man faces a really similar issue, few people know anything about him and he is an important figure in the Marvel Universe, even if only for creating Ultron, so assuming Ultron will have a similar origin (latest rumour I heard, Stark and Banner build his new body, but the AI was all Pym's design) people will question "Who the hell is Hank Pym?" Now having Scott taking the mantle also makes sense, specially if we consider that Pym's other claim to (in)fame is beating up Jannet, sure we have had some pretty jerk-ish protagonists in the MCU so far (actually all of them barring Cap and maybe Bruce, I admit I haven't seen the most recent Hulk movie), but marital abuse is a line that I don't think Marvel Studios would cross (and if they didn't include that part, someone would be angry because they didn't) so why risk that when you have a perfectly good alternative? You even get room for moreworlduniverse-building by introducing super heroes from other ages, and you already have the foundation with Cap himself. This might also help to boost Ant-man's popularity enough that he gets another solo-book, after all that is what happened with GotG.
Concerning really obscure characters, I'm personally hoping that Daredevil and the Heroes for Hire series do well enough that Marvel greenlights more series, there are some propierties (like The Runaways or as you mentioned Cloak and Dagger) that I think would work better as a series as opposed to a movie.
*As seriously as one can take this hobby I suppose
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2015-01-14, 02:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
Re: Ant-Man Trailer
I think the world is ready for a movie about a villain who must come to terms with the consequence of his horrible decisions. Chiefly, naming himself Paste Pot Pete.
Until they start talking Osprey though, I won't think they've reach barrel bottom.