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2015-01-15, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
Yes, and Xykon even knows the rules about arcane metamagic: in srtip #652, he realizes that Vaarsuvius's Quickened Chain Lightning spell requires a level 10 spell slot, because Chain Lightning is level 6, but quickening increases the level by 4.
Last edited by b_jonas; 2015-01-15 at 11:06 AM.
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2015-01-15, 11:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
I choose this one example because he specifically said he used "all means at [his] disposal" and yet, while V casted multiple spell each round, X casted only one.
Yes, there is times where the name of the spells are not said aloud even if there is no silent metamagic involved. But having X NEVER saying quickened is quite off to me...
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2015-01-15, 11:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
I'd hardly call an two Energy Drains, a Superb Dispelling, and a big rock "all the means at his disposal." He's talking about taking advice from others in that fight.
Yes, there is times where the name of the spells are not said aloud even if there is no silent metamagic involved. But having X NEVER saying quickened is quite off to me...Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
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2015-01-15, 10:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
Minor: Tarquin's glamered armor is listed as "glamoured armor". The former spelling is archaic, but it's not a typo in the strip.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems...r.htm#glameredLast edited by rodneyAnonymous; 2015-01-15 at 11:47 PM.
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2015-01-16, 04:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
Fixed.
I note Dorukan's age is listed without a source; do we know where it is mentioned?
Haley's block says she has 200,000 gp, but the comic linked to doesn't seem to explain why. More to the point, with the recent shopping spree she probably doesn't have that amount any more.Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
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2015-01-16, 10:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
First panel. "I've finally earned enough to buy [my dad's] freedom." Which was previously established as 200,000.
Also, when the airship bill was 200,000+, Bandana said they would need the order to hep with the bill due to the sheer amount. We could assume that at 43,000, the Mechane may have paid its own way. Which would make Haley's cash 200,000 + x - y, where x = spending money + Elan tax and y = wands. With two unknowns, and working against each other at that, we might still assume ~200,000 fairly safely.Last edited by Peelee; 2015-01-16 at 10:23 AM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2015-01-16, 10:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
Talking of Superb Dispelling - could it be used to ballpark Xykon's level - based on the assumption that Xykon's Spellcraft modifier isn't more than 10 pts less than the DC (as is typical with epic characters?
The standard version's DC 59 - which would suggest Xykon's modifier is unlikely to be less than 49.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
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2015-01-16, 03:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
I'm no expert but I thought boosting checks to +40 by lvl 10 was reasonably trivial. Assuming he keeps the skill maxed that would account for +49 by skill points alone by level 19. Unless I'm getting my pathfinder skill advancement and 3.5 muddled which is quite likely.
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2015-01-16, 03:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
In 3rd ed your skill ranks can't be higher than your level +3.
So, a 21st level Xykon could only have 24 ranks in Spellcraft. And it's an Int skill - so the skill bonus he'd add to it would not be very high - Xykon is not a high INT character. (though he would get a +2 synergy bonus for Spellcraft if he has 5 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana), and another +2 once he reaches 25 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana)).
Wizards (being INT-based) are much better at boosting Spellcraft.Last edited by hamishspence; 2015-01-16 at 03:18 PM.
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2015-01-16, 03:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
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2015-01-16, 04:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
Originally Posted by Hamishspence
Assuming a required +49:
24 ranks in Spellcraft and Knowledge (Arcana) gives +2 synergy bonus
or 25+ ranks in Spellcraft and Knowledge (Arcana) gives +4 synergy bonus at level 22+
Skill Focus gives +3
Epic Skill Focus gives +10.
Page 1 of this thread gives him about Int 15 which gives +2.
Note that Xykon cannot have both Epic Skill Focus and Epic Spellcasting at level 21 but he might not have the +4 synergy bonus at level 22.
So we're looking at bonuses of 17 or 19 to the base skill which means a base skill of 32 or 30 respectively. Taking the lower skill number puts Xykon at level 27+, which seems about right. No magic item required.
Xykon being level 27 also fits with having taken Automatic Quicken Spell 3 times but not Multispell - he'd need to be 29th level for that. However, 29th level allows for an Int modifier of +0. Given that Xykon hasn't ever shown any great intellect, I'd go for the latter.Last edited by Quartz; 2015-01-16 at 04:05 PM. Reason: Got quoting wrong
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2015-01-16, 04:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
It could straightforwardly be in his backup fortress.
On the other hand, have we seen Xykon automatically quickening every single spell he ever cast? Even though he has used the phrase "quickened <spell>" precisely never, and other characters have been using that phrase whenever they're quickening anything?Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
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2015-01-16, 04:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
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2015-01-16, 04:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
What book is the 3-level Auto Quicken from?
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
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2015-01-16, 04:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
Epic Handbook (and SRD).
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats...icQuickenSpellLast edited by hamishspence; 2015-01-16 at 04:37 PM.
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2015-01-16, 04:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
It's in the SRD. However, having re-read the feat thanks to your question, I note that it requires 30 ranks in Spellcraft, so Xykon would have had to take Epic Skill Focus before taking Automatic Quicken Spell.
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2015-01-16, 04:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
Okay, so we have 24 from skill points, >= +2 from int, +2 from Knowledge arcana, +3 skill focus. = +31
I think we can rule out the other +2 from synergy as he didn't notice the oddity with the ritual.
So if the only way he can boost that high is through ranks then he'd have to be lvl 39
Personally I don't buy that he only has an int of 15 but that's just my personal opinion of the character.
Edit: Oop. Scrap that. With epic skill focus he'd only need to be lvl 29.Last edited by Steven; 2015-01-16 at 04:43 PM.
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2015-01-16, 04:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
Skill Focus feats don't increase one's Skill Ranks - only one's modifier. To take Automatic Quicken Spell at all, Xykon would need to have at least 27 character levels (max skill rank is your level, +3).
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2015-01-16, 04:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
I can't check books right now, but wouldn't Rapid Metamagic (from Complete Mage, if I recall) be an easier explanation than a pile of epic feats?
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2015-01-16, 04:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
Which he did not have.
On the other hand, have we seen Xykon automatically quickening every single spell he ever cast? Even though he has used the phrase "quickened <spell>" precisely never, and other characters have been using that phrase whenever they're quickening anything?
So the follow-on question is, do we see Xykon cast two spells in one round elsewhere?
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2015-01-16, 04:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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2015-01-16, 04:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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2015-01-16, 04:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
Yes, he did.
And in SoD, we do see him cast Energy Drain at least twice in one round.
By the way, Quickened magic looks like this.Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
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2015-01-16, 05:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
Given how often he throws around metamagic high level spells (Still Meteor Swarm, Maximize Energy Drain) it does seem to me a bit more likely that he's using Improved Spell Capacity, than that he's using Rods, or those "X Metamagic 3 times per day" feats.
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2015-01-16, 05:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
No, he thought he did - as that strip shows, it had gone and the hobgoblins had built their encampment on it.
You're assuming that, but that is not a given. It strikes me that you're using the assumption that Xykon is level 28-ish as "proof" that he could cast multiple ninth-level spells per round
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2015-01-16, 05:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
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2015-01-16, 05:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
Do you have the strips where he uses those? If that's the case, I happen to agree with you, but he's still going to need 4 Epic feats to cast a Maximised Energy Drain and still have the Epic Spellcasting feat, which puts him at level 26 minimum, 5 Epic feats - level 27 - to cast a Quickened 9th level spell, and given the likelihood of him having Epic Skill Focus so as to cast Superb Dispelling, he'd have to be 29th level, or 27th without the fourth Improved Spell Capacity feat and a +2 Int bonus.
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2015-01-16, 05:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
Still Meteor Swarm:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0653.html
Maximise Energy Drain:
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2015-01-16, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
I still don't see the need for quickened spell. It seems more likely to be that X cast the maximized spell as a full round action and then was shown moving and blasting to save on have an extra panel.
That means that our paladin friend only gets 3 attacks per round however.
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2015-01-16, 05:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended
Thanks.
It occurs to me that there's yet another way. In another sourcebook, the Immortals Handbook, there's the Automatic Metamagic Capacity Epic feat. Note that this is free to use, so there are no copyright issues. Xykon would still need three of them, plus Epic Spellcasting, plus Epic Skill Focus, for a total of 5 Epic feats (6 for Quickening), and so level 27 (or 29). This makes more thematic sense as it means Xykon can cast metamagicked spells normally, without having to take full-round actions.Last edited by Quartz; 2015-01-16 at 05:50 PM.