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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    Quote Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
    Thanks.

    It occurs to me that there's yet another way. In another sourcebook, the Immortals Handbook, there's the Automatic Metamagic Capacity Epic feat. Note that this is free to use, so there are no copyright issues.
    The Giant using 3rd party - even free 3rd party, seems a little doubtful, though I wouldn't rule it out entirely.

    I figure that it's more likely that feats would be the official ones.

    Regarding what items Xykon has - I figure ones in books, are a bit more likely than homebrew ones.

    Raising the question of what Xykon's "fire immunity" item is - a homebrew one, or a more obvious one like the Epic "Ring of Energy Immunity". If it's that, it would suggest Xykon has the Forge Epic Ring feat

    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#forgeEpicRing

    putting him at at least 32nd level (allowing him more feats).
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2015-01-16 at 05:55 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    Quote Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
    Thanks.

    It occurs to me that there's yet another way. In another sourcebook, the Immortals Handbook, there's the Automatic Metamagic Capacity Epic feat. Note that this is free to use, so there are no copyright issues. Xykon would still need three of them, plus Epic Spellcasting, plus Epic Skill Focus, for a total of 5 Epic feats (6 for Quickening), and so level 27 (or 29). This makes more thematic sense as it means Xykon can cast spells normally, without having to take full-round actions.
    Well, if there's 3rd source pulling, wouldn't it be easier for the Giant to make up his own rules to go by? I see no reason he would pigeonhole himself this way.
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  3. - Top - End - #93
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Raising the question of what Xykon's "fire immunity" item is - a homebrew one, or a more obvious one like the Epic "Ring of Energy Immunity". If it's that, it would suggest Xykon has the Forge Epic Ring feat
    It is worth noting (indeed, it is in the FAQ) that WOTC's official 3.5 material contains several lower-level items that grant fire immunity. So Xykon's unspecified anti-fire item doesn't give a meaningful indication of his level.
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  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    It is worth noting (indeed, it is in the FAQ) that WOTC's official 3.5 material contains several lower-level items that grant fire immunity.
    Those might be from a bit more obscure sources than the Ring is - still, that's a valid point.
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  5. - Top - End - #95
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Well, if there's 3rd source pulling, wouldn't it be easier for the Giant to make up his own rules to go by? I see no reason he would pigeonhole himself this way.
    If memory serves, he has contributed to a number of published works.

  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    Quote Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
    No, he thought he did - as that strip shows, it had gone and the hobgoblins had built their encampment on it.
    Incorrect. Xykon's reserve dungeon exists: it is the tower filled with good-aligned creatures where he, at the very least, was storing the Diary with the location of all the gates. He could easily have kept a bunch of fall-back magic items there, too.

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  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    Quote Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
    If memory serves, he has contributed to a number of published works.
    Indeed, he is proven at being well-versed in game design. Which supports my argument of, "why would he search obscure third party sources for a very specific feat when could make his own and call it 'Xykon's Awesome Metamagic,' which would do exactly what he needed it to do?"
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  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    I think this whole tangent is probably destined to be a fruitless one. The Giant almost certainly has never bothered to make a list of Xykon's feats, so whether or not he's read a given sourcebook, or whether it would be legal for him to use a given feat from one of said books, is likely irrelevant. The real task here, IMO, is to figure out which sourcebooks we want to treat as applicable to the OOTSverse, so that we can figure out which rules Xykon may actually be making use of in order to do his thang.
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  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    Quote Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
    And in SoD, we do see him cast Energy Drain at least twice in one round.
    That event happened before the update to 3.5 in strip #1. Under 3.0 rules, casting two spells in one round is trivially explained by the 3rd level buff spell Haste.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quartz View Post
    So the follow-on question is, do we see Xykon cast two spells in one round elsewhere?
    I don't think so.
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  10. - Top - End - #100
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Given how often he throws around metamagic high level spells (Still Meteor Swarm, Maximize Energy Drain) it does seem to me a bit more likely that he's using Improved Spell Capacity, than that he's using Rods, or those "X Metamagic 3 times per day" feats.
    Wait, wait, let me get this clear. We've seen Xykon use metamagic twice in what? A hundred years? And you're saying, because of that evidence, only being able to use metamagic 3x/day ISN'T enough?

    Xykon could have a "free metamagic 2 times per decade" feat and it would be enough to use all the metamagic we have seen him use.
    Last edited by littlebum2002; 2015-01-17 at 08:07 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #101
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    It's more that, when using different types of metamagic on 9th level spells - being able to do so via one thing (Improved Spell Capacity) makes more sense to me than being able to do so via two different things (2 metamagic feats, or two magic items).
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  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven View Post
    I still don't see the need for quickened spell. It seems more likely to be that X cast the maximized spell as a full round action and then was shown moving and blasting to save on have an extra panel.

    That means that our paladin friend only gets 3 attacks per round however.
    I still maintain that two attacks per round at the time of the strip makes the most sense.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    Aha, I knew that the whole Rapid Metamagic/Metamagic Specialist thing had come up before! The primary evidence discussed at that time was 656, where he apparently moved and cast a maximized Lightning Bolt in the same round. On looking over it again, I don't think that evidence holds: That could have been the previous round, with a standard action to Meteor Swarm and a move to over Jirix's corpse, followed by a full-round maximized lightning bolt.

    However, we also have the point that he cast a metamagicked Meteor Swarm while grappled, and only spells with a standard action or less casting time can be cast while grappled. There, we're forced to assume either some means of metamagicking in a standard action, or a violation of the rules, and assuming a violation of the rules should be considered a last resort in this thread.
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  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    Wait, wait, let me get this clear. We've seen Xykon use metamagic twice in what? A hundred years? And you're saying, because of that evidence, only being able to use metamagic 3x/day ISN'T enough?

    Xykon could have a "free metamagic 2 times per decade" feat and it would be enough to use all the metamagic we have seen him use.
    Three.

    Four.

    Can't link to SoD, but I'm sure there's some in there too. Xykon does enjoy a good metamagic, is what I'm saying. Mostly maximize, but his Stilled Meteor Swarm means he's not a one-trick pony.
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  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    OK, so he can definitely quicken some very high level spells. That, and the fact that we don't see him tack extra magic missiles onto his turns, suggests that he does not have automatic quicken, and instead probably has something that lets him do it a limited time.

    Also, I noticed that crushing hand, like all the lines, has as many hit points as you do when undamaged. Since a meteor swarm took out the hand, that means that V's maximum hit points (at the time of that strip) was 192. Not particularly enlightening unfortunately.
    Last edited by Kornaki; 2015-01-17 at 03:47 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #106
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    Quote Originally Posted by Kornaki View Post
    OK, so he can definitely quicken some very high level spells.
    What? Why?!
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  17. - Top - End - #107
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    Quote Originally Posted by rodneyAnonymous View Post
    What? Why?!
    You're right, he could just have sudden still. I got myself confused.

  18. - Top - End - #108
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    It's more that, when using different types of metamagic on 9th level spells - being able to do so via one thing (Improved Spell Capacity) makes more sense to me than being able to do so via two different things (2 metamagic feats, or two magic items).
    Ok, that makes more sense. I just wasn't reading you right. And the fact that he's not CONSTANTLY using it, to me, also makes free metamagic unlikely.

  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    Speaking of Xykon, I note from SOD that he should have a ring of Positive Energy protection.

    Furthermore, in comic 661 he first bursts through a solid stone wall, and then uses some kind of explosive spell that knocks down more walls. Any thoughts on how he might accomplish that?
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  20. - Top - End - #110
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    I thought the assumption was that he lost anything from SoD in the explosion.

  21. - Top - End - #111
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    About the wallbreaking, I've allways assumed it was just display of raw strength (despite de black aura).

    The second explosion, though, I think deserves some spell research (no pun intended).

  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Incorrect. Xykon's reserve dungeon exists: it is the tower filled with good-aligned creatures where he, at the very least, was storing the Diary with the location of all the gates. He could easily have kept a bunch of fall-back magic items there, too.

    Grey Wolf
    too?

    Not sure what you mean. Are we ok that there was no dungeon in the valley where the hobgoblins were. They did not built an encampment on it as Quartz fought, they just are on the path between the reserve dungeon and the Dungeon of Dorukan.

    If there is a doubt, #190 may clear it.


    On another subject, I was under the impression that SoD and On the Origin of PCs were written with 3.5 rules despite being before the first strip. The same for Uncivil Servant.
    Last edited by Quild; 2015-01-20 at 10:22 AM.
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  23. - Top - End - #113
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    At one point in Origin of PCs Durkon says to Roy (when Roy overestimates Durkon's speed) "This be a prequel you fool! We're still under 3.0 rules!"
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  24. - Top - End - #114
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    We need smilies!
    Over time, the smilies for Yikyik, Yukyuk, Soul Muncher, Jacinda, Kraagor, and Samantha have gone missing. If you have a suitable replacement, please post it in this thread. Thanks!
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  25. - Top - End - #115
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    As I mentioned recently in another thread, the OOTS Smilies thread in my signature still has them.

    (Except for "Soul Muncher", which never had one that I know of).
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  26. - Top - End - #116
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    As I mentioned recently in another thread, the OOTS Smilies thread in my signature still has them.

    (Except for "Soul Muncher", which never had one that I know of).
    I don't think I realized until now that the links had been fixed in that thread some time ago. Yeah, we should be able to use those images just fine.


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  27. - Top - End - #117
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    As I mentioned recently in another thread, the OOTS Smilies thread in my signature still has them.

    (Except for "Soul Muncher", which never had one that I know of).
    Thanks!

    Also, what is Bounding Attack and why is it listed for Belkar?
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Thanks!

    Also, what is Bounding Attack and why is it listed for Belkar?
    I think it relates to this: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0176.html

    It reminds me the "Leap Attack" that I've been using with a lvl12 warrior/ Frenzied berserker dwarf character with 2H axe for a one shot scenario, but Belkar didn't charge.

    I miss that character... It was really a one shot character :D.
    The hard part was to get at least 20 yards between enemies and me, but for some reason they had the wrong reflexe to try to flee.


    Omg, I still have the character sheet <3
    Last edited by Quild; 2015-01-22 at 09:12 AM.
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Thanks!

    Also, what is Bounding Attack and why is it listed for Belkar?
    It's an enhancement to Spring Attack, giving you an extra attack during your movement.
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

    One of Haley's wands is Magic Missle as per 973.
    Last edited by illyahr; 2015-01-22 at 04:47 PM.
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