Class and Level Geekery XIII - Comic As Written, not Comic As Intended

[bookguy]

Can we add Items: dagger to Jacinda?

[ti'esar]

This is nitpicky, but in 849 Tarquin says the glamered effect is "one of" his armor's enchantments. Should the fact that there are unspecified others be indicated on his entry?

[Kurald Galain]

Can we add Items: dagger to Jacinda?

Done.

Should the fact that there are unspecified others be indicated on his entry?

Generally speaking, everything in the top post can be assumed to have unspecified others: characters probably have more feats than listed, carry some items we haven't seen yet, and have points in skills that we don't know about.


I've seen in some earlier thread that Tarquin's dwarf tossing suggests he has the Soaring Throw maneuver from Tome of Battle. Does that sound plausible or do people have another explanation for that comic?

[Chronos]

We now know that Crystal cost five times as much as an ordinary flesh golem. Does this give guidance as to what sort of golem she is?

[SinsI]

I'd say Crystal is basic Flesh Golem added as Template. if Crystal is lvl 16, 16 extra HD at 5000 gp/hd brings the total cost to almost exactly 5 times basic Flesh Golem cost.

[Crusher]

Well, that's the rationale I give in my games. For a great many things.

"Make it so, Number Peelee." - Greywolfc

[Timy]

Why all feats have disapeared from Tarquin sheet ?

I guess it is the infinite deflection that has been voted out but Improved Sunder, quick draw and I guess Improved grapple can still be listed.

[rodneyAnonymous]

One of Haley's wands casts fly.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

One of Haley's wands casts fly.

Is it fly, or another spell that allows you to fly like overland flight?

[Timy]

Is it fly, or another spell that allows you to fly like overland flight?

Because Overland Flight is a 5th level spell and a wand can only have 4th level spells or lower.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Because Overland Flight is a 5th level spell and a wand can only have 4th level spells or lower.

Excellent. Good to know! I'll have to add that to my Spell Compendium.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Why all feats have disapeared from Tarquin sheet ?

I guess it is the infinite deflection that has been voted out but Improved Sunder, quick draw and I guess Improved grapple can still be listed.

I can't comment on those feats, since I don't know them well enough to know if there are problems with them, but Tarquin is also missing a minimum level (whatever is enough to resist Holy Word completely), and he has spellcraft listed twice.

Grey Wolf

[Quild]

I was wondering if Haley carrying Bandana could give us any indication about her strength but Elan in #923 was definitely heavier than Bandana is (male + chain skirt vs skinny female + leather).

Haley doesn't seem to go (much ?) slower than V when carrying Elan... I'm not very familiar about these carrying rules, but isn't the minimum of 13 strength quite low?

[D.One]

About Tarquin's level, I believe he must be at least 16 (probably higher), since he ignored Holy Word and Durkon's caster level was 15 (Good Domain).

About Haley's Strenght, the description of the Fly spell states that the subject cannot carry aloft more weight than its maximum load, plus any armor he/she wears. It also says that subject's speed is reduced if he/she carries medium/heavy load.

If we assume that Elan is on the lowest point of the male human weight curve (124 lb), Haley must have a Strenght of at least 13 (Maximun load of 150 lb) to carry Elan + Chain Shirt (25 lb), if we do not take any other equipment into account. Since we know Elan has more than just 1 pound with him besides the Chain Shirt, it seems logical that Haley should have at least STR 14.

IF we assume Haley's flying movement has not been impaired by carrying Bandana, and assuming Bandana on the lowest point of the female human weight curve (89 lb, acording to PHB), Haley's Strenght should be at least 18(Light load of 100 lb), which I think unlikely.

[Rakoa]

I was under the assumption that Rich ignores those flight carrying rules. I seem to recall something about V flying away with Roy, armour and all.

[Douglas]

I was under the assumption that Rich ignores those flight carrying rules. I seem to recall something about V flying away with Roy, armour and all.

Indeed. We've tried calculating strength scores from flight carrying capacity before, and it has a strong tendency to result in either absurdly high values or the assumption that almost everyone has the same overly specific obscure feats. Or both.

[Kurald Galain]

If you're going to make vague claims like that, you should post evidence. Handwaving doesn't get us anywhere.

[Rakoa]

If you're going to make vague claims like that, you should post evidence. Handwaving doesn't get us anywhere.

Interestingly, without a quote to know who you're responding to, this qualifies as vague.

[zimmerwald1915]

About Tarquin's level, I believe he must be at least 16 (probably higher), since he ignored Holy Word and Durkon's caster level was 15 (Good Domain).

At least 17. Durkon had the Good Domain at the time, which gave his [Good] spells, like Holy Word, +1 CL.

[ti'esar]

About Tarquin's level, I believe he must be at least 16 (probably higher), since he ignored Holy Word and Durkon's caster level was 15 (Good Domain).

At least 17. Durkon had the Good Domain at the time, which gave his [Good] spells, like Holy Word, +1 CL.

Huh, how do we not have that already? The Holy Word scene is cited for Nale, Z, and Kilkil's levels.

[Rakoa]

Huh, how do we not have that already? The Holy Word scene is cited for Nale, Z, and Kilkil's levels.

I'm guessing it would be because Tarquin was listed at 21+ with Infinite Deflection, and when Infinite Deflection was removed due to lack of support, his minimum level was also removed without being re-checked for a lower possible minimum.

[Emanick]

At least 17. Durkon had the Good Domain at the time, which gave his [Good] spells, like Holy Word, +1 CL.

No, I think it's still 16. Durkon was pegged at 14 at the time, which means that even with the Good Domain, he couldn't affect characters level 16 and over with Holy Word.

[Hecuba]

If you're going to make vague claims like that, you should post evidence. Handwaving doesn't get us anywhere.

Assuming you're referring to carrying capacity and flight, the math has been done a couple times in earlier versions of this thread. Off the top of my head, I believe it's been done for V carrying Roy and for Sabine carrying Thog and Nale. In both cases, the results were way out of line with the other evidence available - I seem to recall that it would have required over 18 Strength for V and high 20s for Sabine.

The math should be easy enough to repeat if you really want to, but it would be retreading old ground at this point. It's actually something that has been suggested as an entry in the thread's FAQ more than once.

[Douglas]

I also remember Celia carrying Roy, which again resulted in strength somewhere in the 20s I think for Celia. Pretty much, every time a strength score was calculated based on flight carrying capacity, the result was in the range to be expected only from strength-based fighter types, often high level strength-based types loaded with magical boosts. And this was true for several different characters, none of whom were strength-based fighter types at all.

As for specifics, I'd have to go digging a bit, but I remember lengthy debates about it multiple times in previous incarnations of this thread.

[Quild]

I also remember Celia carrying Roy, which again resulted in strength somewhere in the 20s I think for Celia. Pretty much, every time a strength score was calculated based on flight carrying capacity, the result was in the range to be expected only from strength-based fighter types, often high level strength-based types loaded with magical boosts. And this was true for several different characters, none of whom were strength-based fighter types at all.

As for specifics, I'd have to go digging a bit, but I remember lengthy debates about it multiple times in previous incarnations of this thread.

I'm fine with the final result that is that we should ignore those rules, but I'm not sure about how you get these results.

It can be considered that these flying characters can carry an heavy load, right?

Roy would be what... Around 260 lbs (this estimation is totally based on Dwayne Johnson's weight)? He's in casual wear, no armor, no weapon, 18 str seems sufficent.
Still unlikely high for Célia anyway, even if she had bull strength casted off panel...

[Kornaki]

I'm fine with the final result that is that we should ignore those rules, but I'm not sure about how you get these results.

It can be considered that these flying characters can carry an heavy load, right?

Roy would be what... Around 260 lbs (this estimation is totally based on Dwayne Johnson's weight)? He's in casual wear, no armor, no weapon, 18 str seems sufficent.
Still unlikely high for Célia anyway, even if she had bull strength casted off panel...

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#fly

Flying requires a light load.

[D.One]

In fact, the Flight spell states that a medium or heavy load reduces its speed, but the subject still flies.

Anyway, the math still gives us high strenght numbers...

[Grey_Wolf_c]

In fact, the Flight spell states that a medium or heavy load reduces its speed, but the subject still flies.

Neither Celia nor Sabine are using spells, though.

GW

[Peelee]

this estimation is totally based on Dwayne Johnson's weight

I would just like you to know that I am from now on changing all my metrics to have Dwayne Johnson as the base unit.

[Quild]

I would just like you to know that I am from now on changing all my metrics to have Dwayne Johnson as the base unit.

Well, I kinda like to picture him as Roy if there was to be a movie.
I wouldn't take him as a reference for Belkar though.

Edit: Though, now that I think about it...