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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to craft and go on adventure?

    We are very fast playin, we are planing on end the adventure by the end of the month (just playin in the school“s vacation, since 3 of our players live in other city for study) we up about 1~2 levels per quest.

    But if we want to change the routine for a slow game, how i can handle this? lets say 2 weeks for making an armor for example, ok ill be in town 2 weeks to get my gear up. What about the others? what would they do? stay in the tavern for 2 weeks?

    lets say i work 6 hours per day, and dont want to do nothing else by the end of the day, my session will be:

    You wake up, work 6 hours and go to sleep
    you wake up, work 6 hours and go to sleep
    You wake up, work 6 hours and go to sleep
    you wake up, work 6 hours and go to sleep
    You wake up, work 6 hours and go to sleep
    you wake up, work 6 hours and go to sleep
    You wake up, work 6 hours and go to sleep
    you wake up, work 6 hours and go to sleep

    isnt that boring? what else can i do in town for 2 weeks?

    and 1 last question: How many ingame time does it take to you guys complete a quest? lets just say, enter a castle with 2 traps and 4 encounters?

  2. - Top - End - #32

    Default Re: How to craft and go on adventure?

    1. Use Fabricate. Buy a scroll or get a wizard to cast it for you. It will make you that armor in 6 seconds.
    2. Enchant it. There is no way to expedite this. It will take 1000gp a day. So your best bet is to make items that don't take that long (1-2weeks) or do it in down-time.

    From your 1st post, it seems like you aren't talking about magical armor, so by using fabricate, you can make your armor in 6 seconds. Problem Solved.
    Last edited by RoboEmperor; 2015-01-15 at 05:58 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: How to craft and go on adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raul Lećo View Post
    But if we want to change the routine for a slow game, how i can handle this? lets say 2 weeks for making an armor for example, ok ill be in town 2 weeks to get my gear up. What about the others? what would they do? stay in the tavern for 2 weeks?
    Whatever they want to do. And your session will go like this:
    DM: Raul, what does your character do for two weeks?
    You: He works on his armor.
    DM: Give me two craft checks
    You: [roll 2d20]
    DM: Player B, what does your character do?
    Player B: He...

    Won't take five minutes.

    Most Craft skills are economically poor choices. If you want to craft, you're best off putting ranks in gemcutting, sculpture, painting and the like, as all those create trade goods which sell for full value, and the finished product can take as much or as little time as you have. Unless there's a good reason why your character needs to be the one to craft it, crafting 2000 gp worth of gemstones will get you 2000 gp worth of armor.

    If you just want it for roleplay purposes, then buy the armor normally and say you crafted it.

    Now, that stuff said, there is the craft point system from Unearthed Arcana. Basically, you get X amount of craft points each level that you put towards the creation of mundane and magical items in lieu of time.

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to craft and go on adventure?

    Yeah, i think craft was a wasted skill then haha, i was planning on doing it for a living, but now i see its impossible to an adventurer do it, but im okay now, crafted my armor, all my weapons are +1 (im the only one in the party with +1 weapons, my DM is very strict with "powerfull" items, and none of the players still think of buying better gear)

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to craft and go on adventure?

    And about using the scroll of fabricate:

    I have 1 level in sorcerer, what i have to do to use the scroll?

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: How to craft and go on adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raul Lećo View Post
    And about using the scroll of fabricate:

    I have 1 level in sorcerer, what i have to do to use the scroll?
    You will have to make a caster level check to activate it (DC = scroll's CL + 1, so DC 11 in the case of a sorcerer's scroll of fabricate). If you fail to activate the scroll, you then need to make a DC 5 Wis check to avoid a mishap.

    SRD Reference

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to craft and go on adventure?

    Well lets say that i decide to stop in certain city for 2 months to craft all my equipments, etc... How we handle this?
    Why would the rest of the party wait for me? The game will be ******* boring, like: we are 4 players

    Player 1 what do you want to do?
    craft
    ok roll the progress day dice.

    player 2 what do you want do to?
    walk around and go to tavern

    player 3 what do you want do to?
    walk around and go to tavern

    player 4 what do you want do to?
    walk around and go to tavern

    80 days doing this so we can exit town, the session will be entirely "mine"

    Yestertday my character took 6 days to make something, so the DM said:

    you spent 6 days in town, the dwarf made a heavy flail +1 (you guys did nothing) and decided to get out of town

    Sounded like things happened just for me, you understand? I Hate this

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: How to craft and go on adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raul Lećo View Post
    80 days doing this so we can exit town, the session will be entirely "mine"
    Why are you running each day separately? Heck, if you know what you want to make, write down on a piece of paper before hand. Take 10 on the craft checks (which you should probably do anyway), figure out the GP value of what you can complete, and then just tell the DM "I made x, y, and z." Presto blamo done. Minimum game time spent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raul Lećo View Post
    Sounded like things happened just for me, you understand? I Hate this
    Not your fault if the other players cannot think of something to do for two months in-game time (1 minute real time) with their characters.

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to craft and go on adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raul Lećo View Post
    Well lets say that i decide to stop in certain city for 2 months to craft all my equipments, etc... How we handle this?
    Why would the rest of the party wait for me? The game will be ******* boring, like: we are 4 players

    Player 1 what do you want to do?
    craft
    ok roll the progress day dice.

    player 2 what do you want do to?
    walk around and go to tavern

    player 3 what do you want do to?
    walk around and go to tavern

    player 4 what do you want do to?
    walk around and go to tavern

    80 days doing this so we can exit town, the session will be entirely "mine"

    Yestertday my character took 6 days to make something, so the DM said:

    you spent 6 days in town, the dwarf made a heavy flail +1 (you guys did nothing) and decided to get out of town

    Sounded like things happened just for me, you understand? I Hate this
    You don't handle it day by day. Rather, your DM says:

    "And now that you have slain the dragon, the Kingdom is at peace...for the moment. You all have two months of downtime, what do your characters do?"

    Generally, most of the party will have goals that can't be solved with combat. If they're not crafting, they're running a thieves' guild, or visiting their old monastery, or the like.

    If you've got a game where neither of these things happen, where your DM doesn't pace the story by introducing downtime and the players don't have individual goals and stories, then you don't generally pick up craft skills in the first place.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to craft and go on adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raul Lećo View Post
    Well lets say that i decide to stop in certain city for 2 months to craft all my equipments, etc... How we handle this?
    Why would the rest of the party wait for me? The game will be ******* boring, like: we are 4 players

    Player 1 what do you want to do?
    craft
    ok roll the progress day dice.

    player 2 what do you want do to?
    walk around and go to tavern

    player 3 what do you want do to?
    walk around and go to tavern

    player 4 what do you want do to?
    walk around and go to tavern

    80 days doing this so we can exit town, the session will be entirely "mine"

    Yestertday my character took 6 days to make something, so the DM said:

    you spent 6 days in town, the dwarf made a heavy flail +1 (you guys did nothing) and decided to get out of town

    Sounded like things happened just for me, you understand? I Hate this
    Presumably, the other players are also multi-dimensional characters with craft skills and/or feats, professions, and other things of their own to do. In the game world, they are also real people and there's actually some underlying assumptions about time continuing apace for them like it does for anybody else. What it should presumably look like is something like:

    GM: "Okay, you've got one month of things being fairly uneventful; what are you all doing with your downtime?"

    Fighter: "I'm going to craft a new suit of armor."

    Rogue: "I'm going to work on expanding my information network, and I'll probably spend some time turning a profit at that tavern I opened."

    Wizard: "I was a little frustrated at not having a spell appropriate for [xyz scenario] and I'm a little short on cash after picking up those other items, so I'm going to spend the time researching a new spell."

    So on and so forth. Everyone picks a down time activity, DM verifies that the appropriate checks are made, and then everyone moves on to the next adventure. I'll usually try and assign a few minutes at the end of a given adventure arc to allow everyone to decide what to do with their downtime and make their checks, that way they show up for the next game with their downtime benefits already factored in to their character sheets.

  11. - Top - End - #41
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Segev's Avatar

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    Default Re: How to craft and go on adventure?

    I'd also point out that adventuerers are not typically pro-active. That is, they don't decide when the bad guys are going to enact their plots which necessitate heroic thwartations.

    By this, I mean to bring to your attention that going through all those modules in less than a week of game-time implies a) taht you're travelling to all those locations in no time at all, b) that the bad guys are doing things at such a pace that they're all getting to the point where you learn about their activities and move to stop them at nearly the same time, or c) that when you go is irrelevant; the bad guys are set up and ready for you to arrive to enact their plot just when you get there.



    But, to your concern over "What do the other PCs do?" I would say: whatever they want. Let's say that you have a job that requires you to go out of town for three weeks every 2-4 months, and gives you time off to relax and spend the mountains of treasure you have accumulated in the meantime. Or, if you don't have mountains of treasure, how do you fill the shortfall? What is your "other" or "day" job?

    This is a chance for players to flesh out their characters. To pursue personal relationships with NPCs, political power, social status, or just get a semi-regular day job or do odd jobs around town. To build contacts, and use their phenomenal cosmic powers (even medium-level non-casters can do things that normal people will be awed by) to do things that make them indispensible to the town.

    Or, if they're of a less ... benevolent ... bent, they could spend that time taking petty revenge against their childhood bullies, or bringing local street gangs under their control, or creating street gangs to run their nefarious properties that they're acquiring...

    Basically, what people do during downtime is "build a life."

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Telonius's Avatar

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    Default Re: How to craft and go on adventure?

    This is how I picture the conversation went down.

    Thror: Amazing! We've struck mithril!
    Thrain: You know, dad, that stuff's going to take forever to work into anything usable.
    Thror: Look, son, I don't like it any more than you. But Thranduil did send me that nice set of ale mugs as a wedding present, and I've been meaning to get something nice for his boy.
    Gandalf: I'm pretty sure Saruman has Fabricate in his spellbook. I could ask him next time I see him. I think the standard charge is 450 gold.
    Thror and Thrain: WHAT?!
    Thror: That's outrageous!
    Thrain: Blasted wizard probably told the tree-hugger about the mugs anyway.
    Thror: You know, I don't remember sending him a copy of the registry...
    Gandalf: Look, it's really not that much. Just a one-time casting, and out pops a mithril shirt. How much gold are you not going to be mining while you're working on it, eh?
    Thror: And out it pops, just like that? Listen, pointy-hat, we've been making our own metal by hand for thousands of years. We're not going to change that just because some magical ninny with a fancy wand comes along. You can go tell Thranduil that we'll have that shirt ready for his boy in about three years.

  13. - Top - End - #43
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to craft and go on adventure?

    Well, guess we are playin the wrong way, the fault is in us, not the game haha

    We are changind DMs, my brother is the main DM, but one player wanted to experience DMing, so my brother made a character.
    I had an idea of adventure and DMed 2 sessions.

    Anyone in the table can be DM, just come with a new adventure and a way to take out your character (been rapted for example).

    So we have a session in about 4 hours, ill talk to everyone about this downtime thing, Im still the DM for today, so we“ll already have it.

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: How to craft and go on adventure?

    Allthis conversation is facinating, (and informative!) but we all know that the mithril "shirt" was really just an old swaddle-blanket for a dwarf baby!...yeah, I got nothing...
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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: How to craft and go on adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raul Lećo View Post
    We are very fast playin, we are planing on end the adventure by the end of the month (just playin in the school“s vacation, since 3 of our players live in other city for study) we up about 1~2 levels per quest.

    But if we want to change the routine for a slow game, how i can handle this? lets say 2 weeks for making an armor for example, ok ill be in town 2 weeks to get my gear up. What about the others? what would they do? stay in the tavern for 2 weeks?

    lets say i work 6 hours per day, and dont want to do nothing else by the end of the day, my session will be:

    You wake up, work 6 hours and go to sleep
    you wake up, work 6 hours and go to sleep
    You wake up, work 6 hours and go to sleep
    you wake up, work 6 hours and go to sleep
    You wake up, work 6 hours and go to sleep
    you wake up, work 6 hours and go to sleep
    You wake up, work 6 hours and go to sleep
    you wake up, work 6 hours and go to sleep

    isnt that boring? what else can i do in town for 2 weeks?
    Well, Pathfinder introduced some rules about things you can do during Downtime in that game, it's similar enough you could reverse engineer it or just use it or take it as inspiration for the sorts of things you and your party could get up to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raul Lećo View Post
    and 1 last question: How many ingame time does it take to you guys complete a quest? lets just say, enter a castle with 2 traps and 4 encounters?
    On a good day/at higher level, 2 traps and 4 encounters would get cleared out within a single adventuring day, depending upon how they were spaced out and how much intelligence the party had. On an extremely lucky/well-prepared party, they might actually make it through all 4 encounters with the same group of buffs up, or at least only have to stop to buff up once in between clearing out encounters.

    So [Total Travel Time] + [Assessment Time] + let's say 1d4 to 1d8 hours between combat, looting, and exploration of all of the side rooms that might be in a castle + 1 Day to recover spells after clearing out the castle in order to be at full strength before returning.

    So if it's 2 weeks away, that's 4 weeks travel there and back, a day minimum for recuperation after clearing it out, which, if lucky, is the same day that the dungeon crawl is completed. I'd say add a day for every 2 hours of travel time between fights and encounters because that means their buffs won't last between fights, even the long duration ones(up to a certain level where they probably shouldn't be going 2 hours between fights as anything other than their prerogative) and they can afford to do the 15 minute adventuring day thing and nova all their buffs/spells and then stop and restore spells and HP and then nova on the next fight.

    Assessment Time is the big variable, as it depends upon the intelligence given by the quest-giver and the party's ability to scout, scry, or have/contact spies for intelligence.
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  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Segev's Avatar

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    Default Re: How to craft and go on adventure?

    I wouldn't say "you were doing it wrong," in the sense that it is a bad way to have fun. I would say that not having downtime actually makes less sense, IC, than it might seem. And that the game's design assumes you will have downtime. It is in that downtime that you're supposed to handle such craftings.

    Another way to handle it, if you don't care about simulationism, is just to grant a certain number of "craft rolls" between adventures. Ignore time. When the rolls are expended, you're done until the next session's over. If you finish, you have your item.

  17. - Top - End - #47
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to craft and go on adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raul Lećo View Post
    Well, guess we are playin the wrong way, the fault is in us, not the game haha

    We are changind DMs, my brother is the main DM, but one player wanted to experience DMing, so my brother made a character.
    I had an idea of adventure and DMed 2 sessions.

    Anyone in the table can be DM, just come with a new adventure and a way to take out your character (been rapted for example).

    So we have a session in about 4 hours, ill talk to everyone about this downtime thing, Im still the DM for today, so we“ll already have it.
    As others have said, it's not that you're doing it wrong, per se. You're just playing the game in a more hack-and-slash way, and when you play the game in that way you're not going to be using the crafting rules or the profession rules or the like.
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  18. - Top - End - #48
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: How to craft and go on adventure?

    Yeah, our table is the same as a PC game, just kill hahaha

  19. - Top - End - #49

    Default Re: How to craft and go on adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raul Lećo View Post
    Yeah, our table is the same as a PC game, just kill hahaha
    Alternatively house rule crafting time to be shorter. I once played with a DM who said "crafting takes too long so I'm gonna make it so that it only takes 1day per 10000gp, and you can work on it during your 8 hour rest."

  20. - Top - End - #50
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: How to craft and go on adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by someonenoone11 View Post
    Alternatively house rule crafting time to be shorter. I once played with a DM who said "crafting takes too long so I'm gonna make it so that it only takes 1day per 10000gp, and you can work on it during your 8 hour rest."
    That may be a little too much compensation...*does some quick math* you could produce just over 6 masterwork full-plate armors in a day! Unless youe DM limited you to one item per "crafting session," in which case you can still make 1 Mwk full-plate a day!

    Unless2 that he's talking about magic item crafting, in which case it's not so bad...
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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: How to craft and go on adventure?

    Quote Originally Posted by someonenoone11 View Post
    Alternatively house rule crafting time to be shorter. I once played with a DM who said "crafting takes too long so I'm gonna make it so that it only takes 1day per 10,000gp, and you can work on it during your 8 hour rest."
    Ya the crafting rules are actually correct for how long it takes to make a suit of real full plate, the problem is is that that takes freakin forever. That being said 10k per 8 hour session is nuts, 1k for a week of work seems more reasonable.
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