The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed
The Order of the Stick: Utterly Dwarfed - Coming in December and available for pre-order now
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 34
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    So, my DM tossed the Deck of Many Things at us.

    I don't like that statement. Do you?

    At any-rate, the Favored Soul recieved +6 Diplomacy, a Keep, +2 Charisma, and a level 4 fighter. The Rogue/Swashbuckler/Thief-Acrobat (his build makes me cry. It's such... crap.) Lost all of his magical items. The CE Rogue/Assassin recieved a +3 Lawful Greatsword.

    I, Wizard10/Loremaster4/Archmage3 recieved a fourth level Fighter as well. Oh, my Imp was allowed to draw, and he recieved +6 Diplomacy (for soul-taking negotiations of course) and a Keep. Overlooking the 9,999 Gelugons of Cania, and he claims it has an awesome beach-front view. Oh, and the Favored Soul's Cohort, a NG, pretty intelligent, Ogre drew, and became CE.

    First off, I hate that deck. That Rogue/Swashbuckler/Thief-Acrobat was horrible enough before he lost his weapons, and I know the CE rogue's player feels gipped, however... I came out alright.

    I am putting this up for two reasons, to illustrate that I dislike that deck, and to ask what I should do with my NE level four fighter as far as builds are concerned. I'm allowed all core, and Completes, and probably Psionics if I asked.

    His stats are as follows: 17, 15, 14, 12, 14, 16.

    This guy is supposed to serve my NE Wizard 'till death, however, I'm having trouble finding a good build, as my wizard hates the deities, and plans to slay a few of them (namely Gruumsh, because he hates orcs, but I digress).

    I really want his build to reflect the god-hating attitude, but at the same time, keep it from being too over-zealous, and rather level-headed. I thought Blackguard might be fun, but I'm not so sure.

    So... Help? Suggestions? Thanks in advance.

    Edit: The fighter's human, by the way.
    Last edited by Duskwither; 2007-04-02 at 04:59 PM. Reason: Forgot to mention Race.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    I think you could go a few interesting ways with this. One would be to make him a Kensai, which if you stretched it a small bit and assumed that he thought of you as his Overlord.

    A Purple Dragon Knight would be kind of cool too; His aid another skill would give you a +4 Circumstance bonus to AC, which could be pretty useful. His Inspire Courage would be cool for your party later too.

    Of course, you couldn't get into those classes yet, but assuming he will gain some levels along the way, right?

    I'd put his stats as
    Str 16 / Dex 12 / Con 17 / Int 14 / Wis 15 / Cha 14. Put his fourth level skill point into HP; he's already so far behind the rest of the party that you might as well give him the +4 HP over the +1 to hit and damage. Dex 12 because he can wear Full Plate.

    Give him Tower Shield Proficiency; You can use him as cover! Weapon is up to you.

    - Eddie

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    daggaz's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    actually, i would say your group came out amazingly lucky considering all the possibilities.

    Sucks for the Rogue, he could have died or been permanently imprisoned or worse, tho.

    Heh, the Ogre is gonna be something to watch out for, good thing you got body guards.

    I think its hillarious that your freaking familiar has its own keep now. Will it share it with you? Does the vastly greater wealth (even if its in hell) make it so that you are its familiar now? Haha! Your pet pwns you.

    In closing: Nobody forced you to pull cards. If the rogue feels gypped, its his own damn fault. Let this be a lesson (and one from which you actually, quite luckily, slipped unscathed from), Decks of Many things DESTROY campaigns more than anything else they can do.
    Last edited by daggaz; 2007-04-02 at 05:24 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Halfling in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duskwither View Post
    and to ask what I should do with my NE level four fighter as far as builds are concerned. I'm allowed all core, and Completes, and probably Psionics if I asked.

    His stats are as follows: 17, 15, 14, 12, 14, 16.

    This guy is supposed to serve my NE Wizard 'till death, however, I'm having trouble finding a good build, as my wizard hates the deities, and plans to slay a few of them (namely Gruumsh, because he hates orcs, but I digress).

    I really want his build to reflect the god-hating attitude, but at the same time, keep it from being too over-zealous, and rather level-headed. I thought Blackguard might be fun, but I'm not so sure.
    Well, the premise (evil fighter sworn to protect an evil wizard) would suggest "Thayan Knight" from Complete Warrior, to me (with GM approval to generalize it for your campaign world a bit).

    He can't get into the PrC until 6, but you can aim him for it, and the flavor of the class seems to be a perfect fit for your situation.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    I'd say PaO him into something small, put him into your backpack and tell him to activate magic items occasionally.

  6. - Top - End - #6

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    Deck of Many Things = bad move.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    Deck of Many Things + divination = still a bad move (your DM will get his revenge)

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Monterey, CA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bears With Lasers View Post
    Deck of Many Things = bad move.
    WotC has an alternate DoMT that's really far more entertaining as it really does more with altering your stats and respecing than potentially royally screwing your game.

  9. - Top - End - #9

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    Deck of Many Things = pretty much just a horrible idea in general, game-design-wise.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    The people I played with in my last game told me about a game they'd played some time back. They drew one card from the deck and got a ring of three wishes.

    They ended up taking it to a Lawful Neutral lawyer they'd encountered (who was also a lich) and offering him the third wish if he could come up with uncorruptible wording for their first two.

    They then told me about another game in which they got the deck at second level, the GM thinking they'd not be silly enough to try it. When the first player drew and died, the second player drew, hoping to get enough to revive the first, and died, and the third player retired on the spot.
    Last edited by goat; 2007-04-02 at 06:22 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    Ashdate: Hm... I may look at Kensai. And doesn't Purple Dragon Knight have to be good aligned or something? We're also not in the Forgotten Realms (Says the DM, even though he O.K.ed the Favored Soul worshipping Illmater).

    We have a +5 Keen Bastard Sword of Wounding that none of us could really make use for that we were likely going to give to him. My Imp has been altering into larger devils to make use of it of late.

    daggaz: The itemless rogue isn't so much a rogue as he is "Ineffectiveness Incarnate" with his multi-classing. I feel bad for him, because he was already falling asleep/heavily losing interest when anything resembling combat came along. And that Imp has no choice but to let me in. I'll Gate there as often as I see fit, and he'll like it.

    SMDVogrin: Huh... Thayan Knight is very awesome flavorwise, but I don't know that I particularly like the abilities of the class. They seem awfully sub-par to me, although I did ask for flavor. ;>_>

    So, I might go as far as to ask for some cheese too.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Zombie

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    The Mindfields
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    Well, I'd give him
    17 15, 14, 12, 14, 16.
    16 Strength
    14 Dexterity
    17 Con
    15 Wisdom
    14 Intelligence
    12 Charisma
    You want him to be a tank to absorb all those hit points that you lack. Give him. Get him an amulet of health and a cloak of resistance to increase his tanking ability.
    Ceika is amazing, because she made my Yuna avie. Yay Ceika!

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    MonkGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    About the Thayan Knight class - it'd also serve as a great excuse to take levels of Red Wizard yourself. *Evil grin*
    Pokemon friend code : 3067-5701-8746

    Trade list can be found on my Giant League wiki page, all pokemon are kept in stock with 5 IVs, most with egg moves, some bred for Hidden Powers. Currently at 55 in stock and counting.

    Padherders for my phone and my tablet!

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    Purple Dragon Knights can be true Neutral.

    The real challenge is somehow getting him membership to the Purple Dragons...

    Kensai would kind of be a waste if you're already giving him a +8 weapon.

    You could also turn him into a Blackguard. If so, you'd want to shift his stats around so he'd have a higher Charisma.

    - Eddie

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Troll in the Playground
     
    ElfMonkGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xian View Post
    WotC has an alternate DoMT that's really far more entertaining as it really does more with altering your stats and respecing than potentially royally screwing your game.
    This deck?

    http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060614a

    It does indeed seem quite interesting. Of course, if you draw enough cards, it seems you'll inevitably end up as a vampire/celestial/fiendish/lycanthrope. Good thing it lets you take partial progressions.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    Rama_Lei: Mm... True, but we were kinda using the Ogre cohort to pull that off. He's got quite a few levels of Barbarian now...

    Oh! On that note... Can a Wish spell fix up his alignment back to normal? I'm unsure if it's sufficient to mess with an artifact like that deck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quietus View Post
    About the Thayan Knight class - it'd also serve as a great excuse to take levels of Red Wizard yourself. *Evil grin*
    Oh come now, he'd make me justify the class, and the character wouldn't want to join. So we've got the motivation down to the usefulness of the class itself. I could see the conversation now.
    Me: So... I was thinking of taking the Red Wizard Prestige Class.
    DM: ...Huh? Why?
    Me: Well, he was part of a mage organization at one point, I could see it.
    DM: Look, you've got an un-tampered Polymorph, Shapechange, and Gate. Stop asking for more. Not to mention my suspicions that you rehearse and analyze your wordings for Wish.
    Me: ...

    Ashdate: Yeah. NE guy might have a few troubles getting into the Purple Dragons, but it could be fun... It seems Blackguard may be the way to go from the looks of it. I just worry that the Favored Soul is going to make her Fighter go Paladin.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    Unless your DM is cuddling you all this planning is useless if you are going to put him into combat, he will die. Your familiar could probably beat him up in a fight ...
    Last edited by PinkysBrain; 2007-04-02 at 06:59 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Troll in the Playground
     
    ElfMonkGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    Well, he could Polymorph the fighter into forms more likely to survive combat, at least at first, as well as using other buffs and having the fighter stay in the back and do ranged stuff. When he catches up some... hmm... personally, I'd have him take a class which synergizes well with being magically enhanced by wizard spells. No clue what such a class would be, but, hey.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    PinkysBrain: Sadly, with DR and Fast Healing, my Familiar beats up a lot of things. He doesn't so much as cuddle us, as he goes strictly off of CRs in the books, and when an encounter gives us more experience then he planned, he nerfs it. That's when he sends in a lot of high-leveled stuff with silly tactics, though. Normally, the CRs never match our Party ECL. He's quite crafty at putting low CR stuff against us with preculiar tactics, and awarding very crummy XP.

    Indon: That's a cool idea, and I planned on Polymorphing him quite a bit. I'm unsure of what sort of form would give him more survivability, though. Some of the others enjoy being Cloud Giants.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duskwither View Post
    He doesn't so much as cuddle us
    Then what's the point with all this theoretical rambling? He will get hit with some AoE effect or someone will look at him funny (gaze) and he will drop dead.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Troll in the Playground
     
    ElfMonkGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    Well, you can't transform someone into a form with more HD than the target (or your caster level, but that's no concern), so until he's higher level, I'd go with small things that could hide pretty decently.

    Now, when he's higher level... monks benefit from being polymorphed into larger creatures (their unarmed attack scales to match as if they were a monk of that size), while a rogue would benefit from greater invisibility, and have more skill points.

    So, personally, I'd either go with polymorphed-monk, or invisible-UMD-rogue over the long term.

    Actually, one more thought: If someone with full BAB is polymorphed into a form without full BAB (such as an animal), do they take the BAB of their new form or keep their own? If, say, you could have a fighter transformed into something and still keep his full Base Attack, that'd be pretty advantageous, too.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    Quote Originally Posted by PinkysBrain View Post
    Then what's the point with all this theoretical rambling? He will get hit with some AoE effect or someone will look at him funny (gaze) and he will drop dead.
    Well, being a Wizard, I'll lay down the Abjurations and show off the fine art of Carebearing?

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Mewtarthio's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    Since when do you get to build the fourth-level Fighter? I don't see why you should choose anything more than his feats and skill points, though even that I'm unsure of. Your only hope is to get him a lot of neat skill tricks and Perform: Weapons Drill ranks and sell him into slavery.

    Also, how in Nine Hells did you guys get so incredibly lucky on those draws?
    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    Mewtarthio, you have scared my brain into hiding, a trembling, broken shadow of a thing, cowering somewhere in the soothing darkness and singing nursery rhymes in the hope of obscuring the Lovecraftian facts you so boldly brought into daylight.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mewtarthio View Post
    Since when do you get to build the fourth-level Fighter? I don't see why you should choose anything more than his feats and skill points, though even that I'm unsure of. Your only hope is to get him a lot of neat skill tricks and Perform: Weapons Drill ranks and sell him into slavery.

    Also, how in Nine Hells did you guys get so incredibly lucky on those draws?
    My DM is very lazy when it comes to NPCs as a whole. He's got his plot-centric and 'cool guyz' NPCs, but on the whole, doesn't think too much of them. I mentioned a Drow Cleric that I'd dominated in the past? I named her.

    He allowed the Favored Soul to build her Ogre Barbarian Cohort, so he's letting us build our fighters.

    The Favored Soul had access to Divination, thus lots of cool stuff. I wasn't allowed to prepare any, I lucked out. The other two got squat. I'm surprised we came out as well as we did, myself. I expected two people to be fighting wraiths, while I was imprisoned somewhere, and expected the irony of the Imp being forced into a CE alignment.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Viscount Einstrauss's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    I actually love playing with the Deck of Many Things. I make a habit out of carrying it around in any campaign I find it, and love to roleplay the careful/obsessive gambler with it. I keep looking at the deck, thinking "Great riches might await me on the next draw. But...".

    It certainly isn't for everyone, though. It's for the compulsive gamblers of the party that are ready and willing to eat terrible consequences (plot hooks!) in exchange for a chance at fabulous wealth or power.
    Do not meddle in the affairs of adventurers, for you are expendable and full of EXP.


    Overblown fantasy action/adventure/comedy/drama/spoof. Updates M/W/F

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Land of long white cloud
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    The things to remember with DoMT are -
    1) Don't touch them unless you're level 8+ at the minimum.
    2) Paladins shouldn't touch them unless they're willing to go Blackguard or have a helm of Opposite alignment handy.
    3) Drawing from them is something that Lawful type characters should be reluctant to do.
    4) Provided you meet the lev 8+ condition, the odds are in the PCs favour.
    5) Remember Wishes can be used to negate an action that was just taken. i.e. If the 1st player gets 3 wishes and the 2nd player draws some game destroying effect other than Void you can always Wish that "he'd decided not to draw the card".
    6) Divination is dodgy because it's essentaily a artifact of randomness. "Sure it was a good card when you did the divination, but by the time you drew the card it'd changed", or simply "you get a blank. The divination can't pierce the inate randomness of the Deck" are both appropriate responces.
    7) Remember to follow the rules (they help the PC) that is you return the card you drew to the deck before drawing the next card. Also I'd recommend
    not drawing more than 3 cards at the most (remember this must be decided before drawing the 1st card).
    8) Work out the party responce to less fortunate draws BEFORE drawing. Will the party help rebuild a players fortunes if they lose all their magic items. Will they perform a rescue for an Imprisoned or Voided PC. Check about XP on Deck summoned creatures with GM before drawing. Some of this is metagaming stuff, but that's required with the DoMT.
    9) Keep in mind that a DoMT can be great adventure hook device. You have to rescue a PC, find your new keep or watch your back for betrayal (keep in mind that while the Deck determines the betrayal, the why, and who your unspecified "friend" recruits to help leaves a lot of adventure scope.)

    As a general rule reactions to this item will tell you a lot about your players alignment. "Lawful" people tend to dislike or detest it, Chaotic people tend to vary from "OK" to enthusiastic in their responces.

    GM's should not consider a DoMT to be a "treasure item" in that many players won't touch them, and they can bite the party if the party is unlucky. They're more a combined "Novelty trick" and potential plot device that can give the party a boost. The GM should also work out ahead how h'e going to handle Void and Imprisonment if they come up. Is it character death, or do you have a plot that can drop into your campaign using this.

    Stephen

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Titan in the Playground
     
    ShneekeyTheLost's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    I wish I knew...
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    I always refuse to draw from those things. Sure, you can get twinked, but you can get hurt so badly... I just avoid 'em on general principles.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
    All hail great Shneekeythulhu! Ia Ia Shneeky fthagn
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
    Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
    Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
    Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
    Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
    Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us

    My homebrew world in progress: Falcora

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duskwither View Post
    Well, being a Wizard, I'll lay down the Abjurations and show off the fine art of Carebearing?
    You can't protect a 4th level hors d'oeuvre from a 17th level battlefield, he is toast (and if you spend the first couple of rounds of every encounter buffing him so will you be).

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Aquillion's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Singapore

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    Why not make a 'short-term-effects' deck? One whose effects all either help or hurt you in immediate combat. Things like "You can cast spell-effect X once as a spell-like ability as a free action this round", or "Spell-effect Y goes off centered on you." Have them tend towards more helpful than hurtful things, and players could draw from the deck in an emergency without worrying about drastic long-term changes (except death.)

  30. - Top - End - #30

    Default Re: That horrible deck, and the consequences.

    My DM threw us a deck of many things in a level 10 campaign around the third session. The party ended up about 500,000 gp over our wealth by level, the monk lost all his gear, then got a set of +8 bracers of armor. A couple members earned the animosity of an outsider, which is unfortunate, as we're an evil party in the employ of hell as mercenaries in the sin war.

    A couple levels were lost, as well.

    But the 500,000 gp over the wbl (among 5 party members... yikes) has led to the gm handing out very, very little treasure, despite us sinking something like 300 grand into a castle and the other 200,000 locked up in gems that he doesn't let us sell at full price.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •