Torture as Wanda's hobby?

[KillerCardinal]

Well, this last comic made me wonder something about the idea that torture is a hobby of Wanda's. Since she made Mung forget everything but the screams, could she have an exagerated reputation due to consistently making people forget the non screaming part of a torture session?

I don't know if I buy it myself to be honest. Its just something that occurred to me and I haven't seen anybody mention it yet, so I was wondering what you guys might think of it.

[the_tick_rules]

she's apparently a good interogator, but with whatever is between her and jillian apparently her heart wasn't into it. but she still did what her duty required.

[SteveMB]

she's apparently a good interogator, but with whatever is between her and jillian apparently her heart wasn't into it. but she still did what her duty required.

Or she understands that there's more to being a good interrogator than simply beating things out of people.

[KillerCardinal]

Or she understands that there's more to being a good interrogator than simply beating things out of people.

Right, but there is a difference between torture and interrogation. If she removes all memory of the non-torture portions from everyone, then she may have an inflated reputation for enjoying torture with her people.

Mind you, if this is the case, I can see it almost being a survival trait as many people on her side might mistake the "compassion" used in good interrogation as weakness. This way she is a dang good interrogator, but not questioned by her allies.

[SteveMB]

Mind you, if this is the case, I can see it almost being a survival trait as many people on her side might mistake the "compassion" used in good interrogation as weakness. This way she is a dang good interrogator, but not questioned by her allies.

Probably so. For instance, when the Tool describes her hobbies as "torture and interrogation", I doubt that he really understands the difference between the two as anything more sophisticated than "beating the crap out of somebody" and "beating the crap out of somebody until they answer your questions".

[Pepz]

well what I thought was that everybody thinks she loves torturing. Since everytime she almost squeals with glee when Jillian is captured again ;) of course we know more about what goes on it that room, but the rest just thinks she likes torturing a whole lot :D

[Glome]

Well even today alot of people can't grasp the difference between torture and interrogation, so it doesn't seem surprising if Stanley doesn't understand the difference. Either way, Wanda has gotten a much more reliable source of information by having a prisoner that is somehow sympathetic to her despite being tortured. Whether this sort of relationship is something that she develops between all of her prisoners or whether Wanda and Jillian go farther back then their current conflict still remains to be seen.

[the_tick_rules]

well i just meant with the title it doesn't seem like wanda has interrogation as a hobby. she does it because stanley asks her to.

[Zeluron]

I don't see how torturing some one can be considered a hobby. I'm having trouble seeing any form of pleasure that could be gotten from it. Maybe she needs to dominate some one in order to make herself feel superior or something? Seriously, I just can't imagine a real person doing this, it just seems way too artificial and I find it impossilble to think of this character as a real flesh and blood person when she's doing this.
Wanda loves to torture, or interigate or what ever? Ok. She demands that the blonde girl call her mistress and tortures her even when she's willing to tell her the information anyway. This just isn't belivable at all, it just feels too much like some erotic porn show made by some horney guy, maybe that's all it's supposed to be? She's acting all dominating towards the other girl like you'd expect to see in a porn vedio (chaining some one to a bed and whipping them with a lash). She reminds me of the mistress from Dungeon Keeper 2 which I could handle because DK2 is just a laugh, poking fun at itself but this all seems too serious, like it's supposed to be taken seriously but it just doesn't work for me.
I have trouble imagining a girl who would do this and there for the character comes through as being totaly formed, fashioned and artificial. Maybe it's just all the girls I know are too friendly and kind. Okay, I get that it's supposed to be a fansaty comic but the girl on girl torture feels mighty unrealistic and cheesey in any world.

Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this, so be gentle with your flaming fanboys, I'm just giving my honest opinion.

[Innis Cabal]

she played good cop and bad cop at the same time, i dont think its a facade or anything

[jmsl]

I don't see how torturing some one can be considered a hobby. I'm having trouble seeing any form of pleasure that could be gotten from it. Maybe she needs to dominate some one in order to make herself feel superior or something? Seriously, I just can't imagine a real person doing this, it just seems way too artificial and I find it impossilble to think of this character as a real flesh and blood person when she's doing this.
Wanda loves to torture, or interigate or what ever? Ok. She demands that the blonde girl call her mistress and tortures her even when she's willing to tell her the information anyway. This just isn't belivable at all, it just feels too much like some erotic porn show made by some horney guy, maybe that's all it's supposed to be? She's acting all dominating towards the other girl like you'd expect to see in a porn vedio (chaining some one to a bed and whipping them with a lash). She reminds me of the mistress from Dungeon Keeper 2 which I could handle because DK2 is just a laugh, poking fun at itself but this all seems too serious, like it's supposed to be taken seriously but it just doesn't work for me.
I have trouble imagining a girl who would do this and there for the character comes through as being totaly formed, fashioned and artificial. Maybe it's just all the girls I know are too friendly and kind. Okay, I get that it's supposed to be a fansaty comic but the girl on girl torture feels mighty unrealistic and cheesey in any world.

Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this, so be gentle with your flaming fanboys, I'm just giving my honest opinion.

I don't blame you for feeling this way. Most people are only exposed to S&M through male-oriented porn, which often involves two women. However there actuallly are a lot of both men and women who are really into this sort of thing in the real world, even some of those nice girls you know. It's not really about being mean, usually, especially when the person receiving the "torture" wants it.

Imagine you're a Princess hiding as a Barbarian, trying to be a great warrior and subcommander to a Prince you are attracted to, but afraid to admit to him. You have a lot of stress and responsibility and you're living a double life (at the least). Submitting to Wanda frees her from the burden of choices she's afraid to make. It would be very cathartic, and likely very pleasurable in a special way.

Also, imagine you're a very intelligent, strong, competent woman stuck under the rule of a megalomaniac who thinks appearance is more important in his commanders than strategy. Especially if you already have a liking for S&M, you have extra reason to want to feel the power of controlling someone, someone you may well care for deeply, and on top of that someone you can get important intel from for the war. Wanda's potential motivations, in fact, look to have the most interesting possibilities from the story so far.

Now, I too feel some discomfort from the sadomasochistic subtext, first from the fanservice aspect, and second against the backdrop of a cutesy world. Still, it seems to be so far more about story and only partly about arousing the readers.

I say that above with ... minimal experience at that particular behavior, but a very large number of friends who engage in it.

[SteveMB]

I don't see how torturing some one can be considered a hobby. I'm having trouble seeing any form of pleasure that could be gotten from it. Maybe she needs to dominate some one in order to make herself feel superior or something? Seriously, I just can't imagine a real person doing this, it just seems way too artificial and I find it impossilble to think of this character as a real flesh and blood person when she's doing this.

For whatever reason, some people just seem to be wired to feel pleasure from causing pain. I don't claim to really understand it, but it clearly exists in the real world, and there's no reason it shouldn't exist in fiction.

That said, there's always a risk of getting lazy and cranking out a cliche sadistic villain who does the eeeevil deeds required by the script just because (s)he enjoys being eeeevil. I don't think Erfworld has fallen into that trap, but obviously I can only speak for myself.

This just isn't belivable at all, it just feels too much like some erotic porn show made by some horney guy, maybe that's all it's supposed to be?

Obviously, there's plenty of sexual innuendo in this subplot. However, there are also some interesting questions raised, particularly by Jillian's proposal that "...both of us get out of here...". (Is Jillian trying to protect Wanda from the upcoming attack? Did she seriously expect Wanda to take her up on the offer? If either answer is "yes", why, given that they're on opposite sides?)

Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this, so be gentle with your flaming fanboys, I'm just giving my honest opinion.

Fair enough. I hope you'll agree that I've been "gentle", or at least respectful.

Ultimately, there's no arguing personal tastes -- you either find a story convincing enough to suspend disbelief, or you don't.

[Payne]

Seriously, I just can't imagine a real person doing this, it just seems way too artificial and I find it impossilble to think of this character as a real flesh and blood person when she's doing this.
I have trouble imagining a girl who would do this and there for the character comes through as being totaly formed, fashioned and artificial. Maybe it's just all the girls I know are too friendly and kind.

You haven't been around long, have you, hmm?
Seriously, there's like dozens ads for fetish-related goods/services in every newspaper in north America and Europe.

And trust me, nice girls are the most likely to be into that stuff.
Don't be shocked: 99.9% of those who have this fetish (look it up Wikipedia) are consenting adult who don't really hurt each other. Heard of roleplaying games? That sado-masochistic stuff is what most people associate with the word 'roleplaying'.
Not that I am personally, but I guess human nature is complex.
(Nothing wrong with no knowing about the stuff, so don't be upset. I just find your, shall we say, 'naivete' or maybe innocence, surprising.)

[KillerCardinal]

I don't see how torturing some one can be considered a hobby. I'm having trouble seeing any form of pleasure that could be gotten from it. Maybe she needs to dominate some one in order to make herself feel superior or something? Seriously, I just can't imagine a real person doing this, it just seems way too artificial and I find it impossilble to think of this character as a real flesh and blood person when she's doing this.
Wanda loves to torture, or interigate or what ever? Ok. She demands that the blonde girl call her mistress and tortures her even when she's willing to tell her the information anyway. This just isn't belivable at all, it just feels too much like some erotic porn show made by some horney guy, maybe that's all it's supposed to be? She's acting all dominating towards the other girl like you'd expect to see in a porn vedio (chaining some one to a bed and whipping them with a lash). She reminds me of the mistress from Dungeon Keeper 2 which I could handle because DK2 is just a laugh, poking fun at itself but this all seems too serious, like it's supposed to be taken seriously but it just doesn't work for me.
I have trouble imagining a girl who would do this and there for the character comes through as being totaly formed, fashioned and artificial. Maybe it's just all the girls I know are too friendly and kind. Okay, I get that it's supposed to be a fansaty comic but the girl on girl torture feels mighty unrealistic and cheesey in any world.

Maybe I'm the only one who thinks this, so be gentle with your flaming fanboys, I'm just giving my honest opinion.

Well, to a certain extent I understand what you are saying. I can't emotionally understand it myself, but I have a few friends who actually are into S&M and you'd never guess it from talking to them, thus I can see it being realistic.

However, my point was that torture may very well not be her hobby anywhere near as much as Stanley seems to think. I'm not denying that any torture happened, but I don't think that she enjoys it as much as others think, due to her messing with people's minds.

[KillerCardinal]

she played good cop and bad cop at the same time, i dont think its a facade or anything

Then why did she erase Mung's memory of everything but the screams?

[SteveMB]

However, my point was that torture may very well not be her hobby anywhere near as much as Stanley seems to think. I'm not denying that any torture happened, but I don't think that she enjoys it as much as others think, due to her messing with people's minds.

Judging from her reaction to Stanley's "treat for my favorite caster", she's clearly pleased to have Jillian back. The question is just which aspects of her visits Wanda finds particularly enjoyable: torturing her, chatting afterwards, or something else that happened offscreen or is yet to be revealed?

Then why did she erase Mung's memory of everything but the screams?

It might be to burnish her reputation as an enthusiastic torturer (especially if she thinks, perhaps correctly, that the knotheads she has to work with simply don't understand the fine art of interrogation and would misinterpret the "rapport" part as a show of weakness). It might be to conceal things that came out during the chat (e.g. Wanda's comments about the summoning, Jillian's royal status). It might be to conceal the "something else that happened offscreen" (oh, heck, no point being coy -- if they spent part of the night making the beast with two backs, Wanda might want a little retroactive privacy).

Edit: Also, it might be simple security, to conceal the intel gleaned during the session from people who don't have a need to know.

[Payne]

However, my point was that torture may very well not be her hobby anywhere near as much as Stanley seems to think.

Considering she is hiding non-torture noises and that Jillian seems to get "caught" a lot it seem they are (willing) participants in a game of cat and mouse that both derive pleasure from (a fact she hides from those around her and, by extension, her lord).
...yeah, I think her hobby is just naughty play.
'Torture' is a front hobby she keeps up for others.

[ArkhamPatient]

Obviously, there's plenty of sexual innuendo in this subplot. However, there are also some interesting questions raised, particularly by Jillian's proposal that "...both of us get out of here...". (Is Jillian trying to protect Wanda from the upcoming attack? Did she seriously expect Wanda to take her up on the offer? If either answer is "yes", why, given that they're on opposite sides?)

It is not like Wanda really wants to be on the same side as Tool.
Also, there are many stories where two people on the opposite sides of battles come together. Romeo and Juilet anyone?

[Tor the Fallen]

I thought the whole porno aspect to the interrogation session was part of the ongoing references to internet culture that some find so delightfully witty.

[Bag_of_Holding]

I thought the whole porno aspect to the interrogation session was part of the ongoing references to internet culture that some find so delightfully witty.

Umm, sexually inclined, not pornographic.

I'd prefer to call it more or less erotic (no, I'm not into BDSM thank you.) though.