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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Redcloak's Niece?

    I was reading through Start of Darkness again the other day (easily my favorite OOTS book that I own) when I noticed something that has never come up in the strip but would likely hold a great deal of significance if it surfaced again. I am talking, of course, about Right-Eye's daughter.

    Now, for those of you who don't recall, Redcloak's brother Right-Eye had a wife and three children, all but one of whom were killed while under Xykon's command. The youngest of the three, the daughter, survived and apparently was hidden by her father.

    Quote Originally Posted by Right-Eye View Post
    That changes nothing, though at least I was able to smuggle my daughter to safety before he [Xykon] noticed. She's out there being raised by humans-or worse, because of that madman.
    I imagine that Redcloak's niece is now of adventuring age, and will return at some point in the series. The question remains of what she became and what she will be doing when Redcloak, Xykon, and the Order meet up with her. I imagine she'll have a vendetta against Xykon (perhaps she became some sort of undead-slayer), but her relations with Redcloak will likely be more tumultuous.
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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thealtruistorc View Post
    The question remains of what she became and what she will be doing when Redcloak, Xykon, and the Order meet up with her.
    She's probably settled down with Fyron's son and helped raise a litter of inexplicably medium-sized half goblins.

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    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    Yeah, people have noticed that for a while. She's at the center of a few dozen epileptic tree forum theories.
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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    I think I've said this before, but I may as well say it again: for all the wild speculation, I think there's at least a possibility that Redcloak's niece may never show up again, and that her survival was chiefly a way of preventing SoD from being a total downer by having at least one member of Redcloak's brother's family not die a pointless death amid the failure of everything he worked for.

    Mind you, given that the Giant's been quick to shut down unprofitable lines of speculation before, I suspect he would have confirmed this now if it was the case. So she will probably show up again.
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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thealtruistorc View Post
    I was reading through Start of Darkness again the other day (easily my favorite OOTS book that I own) when I noticed something that has never come up in the strip but would likely hold a great deal of significance if it surfaced again. I am talking, of course, about Right-Eye's daughter.

    Now, for those of you who don't recall, Redcloak's brother Right-Eye had a wife and three children, all but one of whom were killed while under Xykon's command. The youngest of the three, the daughter, survived and apparently was hidden by her father.



    I imagine that Redcloak's niece is now of adventuring age, and will return at some point in the series. The question remains of what she became and what she will be doing when Redcloak, Xykon, and the Order meet up with her. I imagine she'll have a vendetta against Xykon (perhaps she became some sort of undead-slayer), but her relations with Redcloak will likely be more tumultuous.
    Hypotheses about Redcloak's niece are so prevalent (usually in an ironic way) that's a nice refresher to see someone suggest something that's actually serious. Redcloak's niece has become synonymous with the term "epileptic tree" simply becauset it has been the root of so many crazy ideas. I think that we would not see her unless we get even more background on Redcloak, as introducing her with only what the majority of the readers know would serve only to confuse them and would definitely lessen the impact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oppyu View Post
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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    I'm not that familiar with the timeline of the series, but how long ago was that? I was under the impression that maximum life span for a goblin was about 40 years, and those events took place longer ago than that.

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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    On the contrary, I was under the impression that it was too recent. That she'd be still a kid. Maybe I just got that impression because Right-Eye and Redcloak discuss her situation during the siege on Dorukan's dungeon (which IIRC was mere months before the start of the strip), but the event they were referring to did happen a good while before that. I'm still not too sure of the timeline.
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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    Quote Originally Posted by littlebum2002 View Post
    I'm not that familiar with the timeline of the series, but how long ago was that? I was under the impression that maximum life span for a goblin was about 40 years, and those events took place longer ago than that.
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    We see her as a child roughly 5 years before current in-comic time. So, even though goblins have short lifespans, she would most certainly still be alive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oppyu View Post
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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    Quote Originally Posted by Procyonpi View Post
    Yeah, people have noticed that for a while. She's at the center of a few dozen epileptic tree forum theories.
    You misspelled "hundred."

    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    Mind you, given that the Giant's been quick to shut down unprofitable lines of speculation before, I suspect he would have confirmed this now if it was the case. So she will probably show up again.
    And the reason he doesn't shoot down more unprofitable lines of speculation is to specifically avoid this type of leap, I'm sure.
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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    And the reason he doesn't shoot down more unprofitable lines of speculation is to specifically avoid this type of leap, I'm sure.
    I personally don't try to base my speculation off of how I think The Giant usually works because that just leads to all sorts of Vizinni-like antics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oppyu View Post
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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    And the reason he doesn't shoot down more unprofitable lines of speculation is to specifically avoid this type of leap, I'm sure.
    Oh, certainly - and I think that's probably especially true in this case because she's become such a forum meme.
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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxzan Proditor View Post
    I personally don't try to base my speculation off of how I think The Giant usually works because that just leads to all sorts of Vizinni-like antics.
    I'm confused - that's the best reason to do something. Though I do think Ferdy was better.
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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I'm confused - that's the best reason to do something. Though I do think Ferdy was better.
    Ferdy?
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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    I don't have my copy of SoD with me, but I think she might be past adventuring now.

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    The oldest child was already older then Red Cloak when they first met, and his brother was an old man when he died. Based on the time skip between them I would say she would be middle aged by now, but I might be off by a bit.

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    DwarfFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    The first time we see Right-Eye's daughter, she looks about the same age as his younger son, who looks like he's a mid-to-late adolescent when he shows up dead in Right-Eye's flashback panel, the death being no more than 2.5 years later. Remember, goblins age twice as fast as humans, so she's aged the equivalent of ~8 human years from the last time we saw her by the time we get to the current continuity.

    That being said, I think there's a good chance she just survived to make SoD slightly less of a downer.
    Last edited by Procyonpi; 2015-01-20 at 11:59 PM.
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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    I think the character has too much potential emotional impact to just discard, so she's going to show up in the main comic eventually. That said, though, the Giant has said that he's writing the main comic in such a way that the print-only books won't be necessary to follow it: If anything from the print books shows up, it'll be in a way that's introduced naturally. And so far, he's done a good job of following that rule. So given that Miss Chief hasn't even been alluded to yet in the main comic, it'll probably be a while before we see her.
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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    Redcloak is 55 (at the time of WaXP), past the age goblins normally live to. Redcloak's comment about great grandchildren, indicates that goblin generations are fairly short, so it is quite possible that Redcloak's niece has died of old age already.
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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    Quote Originally Posted by 137ben View Post
    Redcloak is 55 (at the time of WaXP), past the age goblins normally live to. Redcloak's comment about great grandchildren, indicates that goblin generations are fairly short, so it is quite possible that Redcloak's niece has died of old age already.
    Redcloak is 55, but his brother was still alive only, what, 3 years ago? So she is probably not old enough to have died of old age.
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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    Quote Originally Posted by 137ben View Post
    Redcloak is 55 (at the time of WaXP), past the age goblins normally live to. Redcloak's comment about great grandchildren, indicates that goblin generations are fairly short, so it is quite possible that Redcloak's niece has died of old age already.
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    As I said above, she was a child only around five years ago, so that seems unlikely to me.
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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    While she might appear, I feel like the point of that line was to illustrate that:

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    Right Eye was essentially saying he didn't care about the plan anymore, just his family, to the point that he would rather his daughter be raised by humans than to keep following Red Cloak. It was intended to illustrate Right Eye's desperation.

    I don't think she's going to appear again. It seems more appropriate that Red Cloak has pushed away everyone except an undead lich in his pursuit of the plan. Her showing up would probably have no more impact than Right Eye did.

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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    I figure her arrival would really matter only as Redcloak's last shot at stepping off his self-induced railroad/trainwreck. Also, she might be the only other living entity who knows his true name, which has some magical implications.

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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    Also, she might be the only other living entity who knows his true name, which has some magical implications.
    I'm pretty sure not in DnD. Dresdenverse this ain't.
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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    And if Rich uses this as an opportunity to poke fun at the Truenamer class and the Dresdenverse?

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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    And if Rich uses this as an opportunity to poke fun at the Truenamer class and the Dresdenverse?
    Seeing Redcloak's Niece as a Truenamer could be pretty amusing, actually. I kind of want to see that now. I don't think it would be to poke fun at the Dresdenverse, though, because that would be pretty much poking fun at the concept of true names, which doesn't strike me as a very good target for that sort of thing.
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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    Names have power even if they don't fuel spells or anything like that. How do you think Redcloak would respond if, after all of these years, someone actually called him by his original name?
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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    Names have power even if they don't fuel spells or anything like that. How do you think Redcloak would respond if, after all of these years, someone actually called him by his original name?
    I would say that there is a non-0 chance that he has forgotten it entirely.
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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    It is entirely possible that Xykon killed her off panel (or any random event claimed her) - Right-Eye didn't know as much of what escaped Xykon as he thought he did.

    Outside that my memory of SoD and the comic was that Xykon showed up at the village and went almost immediately to Durokan's tower (wasn't that why he picked up Redcloak? He had found a gate location) where he stayed outside for 6 months.

    Given that it is possible that the niece is still too young to be adventuring - but I suspect that if she shows up she will be as old as the story needs her to be.

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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    I've actually pondered about her a few times myself.

    My personal opinion is that she will make an appearance in the strips yet to come. She simply has too much potential in forcing some further character development in Redcloak. An appearance by his niece at some point can easily bring him back to having to make the decisions he made in regards to his brother all over again. To re-evaluate if the decisions that he made then were the right ones. Whether he wants to do them again or change course. There is also the matter of reconciling his actions to his niece in regards to her father.

    Just my speculation, but the story potential in her appearing is simply too good to pass up IMO.

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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I would say that there is a non-0 chance that he has forgotten it entirely.
    Which would be a pivotal moment in its own right.

    I think Redcloak's niece is very likely to appear at some poin. She was specifically singled out as the sole surviving member of Redcloak's family. She's the last link to his life before he was Redcloak, and seeing her would be a stark reminder of what happened all those years ago.

    I expect her to play an important role in the eventual resolution of the story of Gobbotopia, the Plan and the goblin people in general. But that's just a hunch on my part.
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    Default Re: Redcloak's Niece?

    How old would she be at this point?
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    It's been a while since I read Start of Darkness, but IIRC:
    Redcloak has been kept young by the power of the Cloak. Right-Eye was an old man when Xykon dueled with Dorukan. Right-Eye wasn't visibly aged when Redcloak came to the village. His daughter looked fairly young.

    Xykon was in the dungeon for about six months before the Order showed up.
    Lets say about a year and a half has passed since the end of SoD, and the current comic. With Roy on the mountain for three months that gives us plenty of time for the Order to have traveled around.

    The wiki says that Right-eye worked for Xykon for about a decade after Xykon came to the village.
    That gives plenty of time for a young, confused goblin to grow up into a badass Vengence seeker.
    ...in Fact, I can see it now.
    She went to the Oracle, and asked "Who killed my father".

    The answer, Redcloak, her uncle.

    Basically, I'm saying that Redcloak will meet his end at, lets go with a Rogue, using the "Avenger" Prestige class, because alignment-restricted assassins are a stupid idea.

    Unless she's a Paladin or something.

    That or she'll team up with Julia Greenhilt for the Epilogue book.
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