General Shadowrun Questions

[TeChameleon]

Well, since the previous general questions thread for Shadowrun appears to have been lost to the mists of time, I figured I'd start another thread for the simple questions that are likely to only take a post or two to resolve.

Starting things off, does anyone know if there are any books in Shadowrun 4e that describe the lay of the land (in general terms, at least) between Seattle and Chicago? I've got my players heading out on a bughunt (not that they know that yet... ), and they're planning to take a roadtrip to get from one city to the other.

[LibraryOgre]

Well, since the previous general questions thread for Shadowrun appears to have been lost to the mists of time, I figured I'd start another thread for the simple questions that are likely to only take a post or two to resolve.

Starting things off, does anyone know if there are any books in Shadowrun 4e that describe the lay of the land (in general terms, at least) between Seattle and Chicago? I've got my players heading out on a bughunt (not that they know that yet... ), and they're planning to take a roadtrip to get from one city to the other.

If you can track them down, MOST of the Native American Nations books should still be viable for general ideas. There's going to be a number of border crossings, at the very least... from Salish-Sidhe to to Sioux to UCAS, at the very least, with maybe a jog through Algonkian-Manitou. Depending on their transport and contacts, it may be easiest to take some of the smugglers runs towards Denver, then cut east.

[Inspector Valin]

Yeah, that's a long run for a road trip, and you're crossing multiple boarders. Including the Sioux, and the Sioux/UCAS boarder is... the sort of one that should scare Runners.

If you're interested, Coyotes IIRC focused on border smuggling and crossing. Elven Blood had a bit of it as well, and Feral Cities gives a good bit of general detail on Chicago and the Chicagoland area.

[Dimers]

4e questions:

Can form-fitting armor, SecureTech PPP or shields have their own armor modification slots?

Does pistol-whipping require the gun's skill, Unarmed, Clubs or Exotic Melee Weapon? Does the answer change if the weapon has the "melee hardening" mod or says in its description that it's intended for melee, like the Defiance tazer?

Can drones get a +2 bonus to hit with smartlinked weapons if they have the smartlink vision enhancement on their sensors?

[Kaun]

Im a bit dusty on 4e but let me see how i go.

4e questions:

Can form-fitting armor, SecureTech PPP or shields have their own armor modification slots?

Honestly not sure. But i cant see why not.

Does pistol-whipping require the gun's skill, Unarmed, Clubs or Exotic Melee Weapon?

I would say a pistol whipping would be an unarmed

Does the answer change if the weapon has the "melee hardening" mod or says in its description that it's intended for melee, like the Defiance tazer?

Not sure, but i wouldn't think so.

Can drones get a +2 bonus to hit with smartlinked weapons if they have the smartlink vision enhancement on their sensors?

I wouldn't think so. Smartlink gives metahumans a bonus because it augments their pre-existing hand-eye coordination/skill. Drones don't have hand-eye coordination. Their ability to successfully utilize a firearm would be solely based around a smartlink like program; which would be made up of targeting software, visual/other inputs and robotic equipment which allows them to maneuver both there chassis and the weapons mount.

[Telwar]

4e questions:

Can form-fitting armor, SecureTech PPP or shields have their own armor modification slots?

I don't see why not for the FFBA or shields, and I've assumed mods applied to FFBA before (to a certain extent; Softweave from WAR! seems a bit much). The Securetech PPP seems a bit...odd to have mod slots on, though. "Yeah, I have +6 dice to resist radiation because of my armored jock strap."

Does pistol-whipping require the gun's skill, Unarmed, Clubs or Exotic Melee Weapon? Does the answer change if the weapon has the "melee hardening" mod or says in its description that it's intended for melee, like the Defiance tazer?

Arsenal says Pistols and rifle butts count as improvised weapons that use the Clubs skill (page 17 of my older version). TBH, Clubs is my favorite melee skill, since I have an in-game phobia of dropping weapons; I had my corpse fireballed in D&D one too many times. Melee hardening is up there as far as mods, too.

Technically you can get up to a -3 penalty to your die pool based on the clumsiness of the weapon, but both pistols and rifle butts seem like at worst they'd be a -1, and probably no penalty if hardened. At least, that's how I'd rule it, but I'm already biased. :)

Can drones get a +2 bonus to hit with smartlinked weapons if they have the smartlink vision enhancement on their sensors?

Honestly, no idea. I don't see why not, but they already have a ton of bonuses.

[Dimers]

Smartlink gives metahumans a bonus because it augments their pre-existing hand-eye coordination/skill. Drones don't have hand-eye coordination. Their ability to successfully utilize a firearm would be solely based around a smartlink like program; which would be made up of targeting software, visual/other inputs and robotic equipment which allows them to maneuver both there chassis and the weapons mount.

Very sound reasoning. Imma write that down.

Incidentally, Kaun, I still remember you for the suggestion of using medical waste to foul up DNA evidence and material links. Brilliant. These days, partly for quick distribution and partly just for the grotesque black-humor value, I'm considering putting that kind of material inside splash grenades ...

Arsenal says Pistols and rifle butts count as improvised weapons that use the Clubs skill

Thanks for the reference. Useful stuff.

I don't see why not for the FFBA or shields, and I've assumed mods applied to FFBA before (to a certain extent; Softweave from WAR! seems a bit much). The Securetech PPP seems a bit...odd to have mod slots on, though. "Yeah, I have +6 dice to resist radiation because of my armored jock strap."

"Wanna know where my commlink is? Go on, guess." Or maybe you do a hip thrust whenever you want to use your hearing enhancements. Yeah, doesn't make much sense to me either, at least for most of the possible enhancements.

New question -- what *is* softweave, anyway? I don't own the relevant book. From the name I'm guessing it reduces the encumbrance problem from heavy armor ... ?

[Kaun]

Incidentally, Kaun, I still remember you for the suggestion of using medical waste to foul up DNA evidence and material links. Brilliant. These days, partly for quick distribution and partly just for the grotesque black-humor value, I'm considering putting that kind of material inside splash grenades ...

Yeah... why clean when you can make more mess.

After the DNA bomb, you want an emp and an incendiary.

I really want to run some more Shadowrun but rules heavy games just sap my enthusiasm these days. Eclipse Phase is another classic for this problem.

[Alberic Strein]

New question -- what *is* softweave, anyway? I don't own the relevant book. From the name I'm guessing it reduces the encumbrance problem from heavy armor ... ?

Introduced in War! supplement for SR4, it allows the user to decrease the ballistic or impact rating (whichever is higher) by his strength rating. It raises the price by 1.1 and availability, but I don't remember by how much. +2 if I remember correctly.

Basically, someone with body 4 and a strength of 2 or more could wear medium military armor without malus with softweave.

Edit: As to what it actually *is* I can't remember exactly. IIrc it's a special process used in armor creation. Meaning it doesn't take any capacity. I can't remember if it can be added retroactively, though.

[Dimers]

4E again.

I've heard recommendations against keeping foci active during runs. But sustaining foci are hella useful. What are the disadvantages of active foci in general and sustaining foci in particular?

[Alberic Strein]

You're dousing yourself in light, whipping out an electric guitar, raising the volume to the max and then starting a one-man concert.

...For the astrally perceptive at least.

Oh yeah, I usually avoid playing mage, but there seems to be a bit of rules-fu which makes astrally projecting mages unable to snipe you with mana spells from half the planet away. Sustaining foci? They remove said limitations. Not only are you being seen very clearly, but you can be attacked from astral space iirc.

Oh, and never forget that adepts can get astral sight, or even normal mundane characters for that matter, and that geek the mage first is considered a very valid tactic in the shadowrun world.

That being said, sustaining foci are very, VERY useful.

[LibraryOgre]

And, in older editions, your sustaining foci not only made you an astral target, but it could serve as an astral laser designator for, say, a ritual fireball spell with unseemly force... you could "ground out" physical spells through the dual-natured (like sustaining foci).

[Alberic Strein]

Okay, a few from me.

I heard about CQC characters not being good in 4E/4A. Is it limited to unarmed character, or is it also relevant for CQC weapon wielding characters?

In the same vein, is there anything saying that bone density is incompatible with killing strike? Because if it's not, it's quite possible to create an adept who forgoes one essence and magic point at chargen and ends up with str/2+9 physical damage. Which, if I remember correctly, is quite strong.

[LibraryOgre]

In the same vein, is there anything saying that bone density is incompatible with killing strike? Because if it's not, it's quite possible to create an adept who forgoes one essence and magic point at chargen and ends up with str/2+9 physical damage. Which, if I remember correctly, is quite strong.

I can't think of any reason the two would not be compatible.

[Dimers]

I heard about CQC characters not being good in 4E/4A. Is it limited to unarmed character, or is it also relevant for CQC weapon wielding characters?

In the same vein, is there anything saying that bone density is incompatible with killing strike? Because if it's not, it's quite possible to create an adept who forgoes one essence and magic point at chargen and ends up with str/2+9 physical damage. Which, if I remember correctly, is quite strong.

You mean Critical Strike for increasing damage, not Killing Hands. Yes, quite strong, and it's certainly a valid build in original 4E. There are quite a few bioware and cyberware mods that are worth the Essence loss for certain magic characters, though they tend to be quite expensive in nuyen.

As for CQC, without getting into terrain and distance considerations ... Melee fighting takes a Complex Action, whereas you can fire a gun twice during your turn with two Simple Actions (and the target takes a -1 penalty to dodge the second one, since at that point they've already defended against one attack). And the target of a melee attack gets to add a skill to their defense roll that the ranged target doesn't. So melee is notably less likely to work and only gets half the opportunities of a decent gun build. Guns can also get mods, accessories and specialized ammo to increase their effectiveness or change what they accomplish, and guns can have smartlinks for +2 to most attack rolls. Don't get me wrong, a well-built CQC character can still take out an enemy with one hit -- but it's far from optimal.

[LibraryOgre]

Somewhat unrelated, one of my favorite characters was "Sticks", an adept who used stun batons and stealth. Sneak attack, dump combat pool into the attack, and he'd kill people with stun batons pretty regularly.

[Dimers]

Well, that's a shocker!

[DigoDragon]

Well, that's a shocker!

Haha! I'm a sap for good bad puns.


The bone density and killing strike combo seems perfectly legit to me. You're paying for that extra damage with Ess/Magic, something not easy to come by.

[Alberic Strein]

Is it still being good at stun weapons when using them is pretty much a garroted kill?

[LibraryOgre]

Is it still being good at stun weapons when using them is pretty much a garroted kill?

It wasn't quite guaranteed, but it wasn't uncommon. This was 3e, though, and armor wasn't as likely to be electrical resistant.

[Dimers]

Is it still being good at stun weapons when using them is pretty much a garroted kill?

I realize that "garroted" is probably supposed to be "guaranteed", but that's a freaking brilliant idea: an electrified garrote. Stun garrote. Beautiful notion.

[DigoDragon]

I realize that "garroted" is probably supposed to be "guaranteed", but that's a freaking brilliant idea: an electrified garrote. Stun garrote. Beautiful notion.

That is evil and scary and I totally love it.

[Alberic Strein]

Subduing combat with 6S +all the rules for electric damage? Now, THAT's going to add up fast. Not even getting into the whole torture/stangle you until you pass out in one swift motion.

[TeChameleon]

*shrug*

Depending on how you do it, CQC characters can be absolute monsters. I played a physad who would have been inadvertently killing people through stun overflow almost every time he punched someone, at least if we had understood the rules a little better at the time. And, courtesy of having more initiative passes and higher initiative than anyone else, (assuming I'm remembering correctly, of course), I think that in the two combats of our sadly short-lived campaign, all the other players combined managed to get off one shot (which missed) before he took out everything in sight.

... so yeah. Granted, it wasn't exactly a heavily min-maxed party or anything, but they're hardly going to be a burden on the party if you build them right.

[DigoDragon]

What does CQC stand for again?


I've accidentally killed someone with an overpowered Stunbolt.

The best moment of over-stunning I saw was when my players got together a belt of gel-rounds for the team's tank. Who was using a minigun.
It was raining 11S all over the street! D:

Luckily for them they didn't kill anyone, 'cause they managed to catch a few Lonestar officers in that storm.

[The Random NPC]

What does CQC stand for again?

Close Quarter Combat

[CrusaderJoe]

Yo!

So I'm looking for a new system to use as D&D has left me... Feeling very meh (not just 5e but 2e, 3e, and PF*) same old same old.

I'm looking to expand and I came across Shadowrun. I saw that there is a 5e out but people still play 4e. Would it be worth it to start with 4e and then switch to 5e or would it be safe to head straight into 5e?

What are some newbie pitfalls? I've played videogames my whole life and have played D&D since 199X (not sure of the right date).

What forums, outside of giantitp of course, would one reccomend to find good community support for Shadowrun?


*I love 4e D&D but it isn't supported so its hard to find groups.


Edit: Thanks in advance!

[Anonymouswizard]

Yo!

So I'm looking for a new system to use as D&D has left me... Feeling very meh (not just 5e but 2e, 3e, and PF*) same old same old.

I'm looking to expand and I came across Shadowrun. I saw that there is a 5e out but people still play 4e. Would it be worth it to start with 4e and then switch to 5e or would it be safe to head straight into 5e?

What are some newbie pitfalls? I've played videogames my whole life and have played D&D since 199X (not sure of the right date).

What forums, outside of giantitp of course, would one reccomend to find good community support for Shadowrun?


*I love 4e D&D but it isn't supported so its hard to find groups.


Edit: Thanks in advance!

4e is more popular, although 5e isn't BAD (although I may only have this opinion because I haven't played 4e). The big difference between the two is that 4e has a pure point build character creation system, while 5e uses a 'priority' system where you assign different priorities to different categories. I like how 5e handles things, although that might just be due to high functioning autism Long story short, pick 4e or 5e and stick with it, 5e isn't so much an upgrade as a sidegrade (and I like to imagine the two editions as alternate timelines, to explain why some technologies returned in 5e while being obsolete in 4e).

[CrusaderJoe]

4e is more popular, although 5e isn't BAD (although I may only have this opinion because I haven't played 4e). The big difference between the two is that 4e has a pure point build character creation system, while 5e uses a 'priority' system where you assign different priorities to different categories. I like how 5e handles things, although that might just be due to high functioning autism Long story short, pick 4e or 5e and stick with it, 5e isn't so much an upgrade as a sidegrade (and I like to imagine the two editions as alternate timelines, to explain why some technologies returned in 5e while being obsolete in 4e).

Hmmm I'll take a look at both, I wasn't aware such a huge change happened between the two.

I'm already sucked into the man-magic-machine fluff of the world, breath of fresh air.

I like simple core mechanics that get complicated if you choose to be a complicated PC. Is this more 4e style or 5e style?

Also, just noticed that 4e PDF is like... $15 on drivethrupg... Might pick it up for reading material.

Thanks! I'm really excited to expand my tabletop repertoire and get out of my recent funk. :)

EDIT

I found the Quick Start Rules for 4e and 5e. I'll be reading both and see which of the systems I like a bit more than the other.

[Alberic Strein]

I'm looking to expand and I came across Shadowrun. I saw that there is a 5e out but people still play 4e. Would it be worth it to start with 4e and then switch to 5e or would it be safe to head straight into 5e?

A tough one right at the start. I play 4E (4A to be precise, namely the 4th edition Anniversary rules who are slightly different on some accounts) and I've looked into 5E, though I've never gone around to play it.

5th edition, if I'm not being an idiot, doesn't have a lot of supplementary material, unlike 4A who has different character creation processes (point buy, karma, priority system, etc) but on the other hand, 5E tries its best to "fix" issues from 4E/A, though you'll have to ask someone proficient with 5E to tell you whether it's effective or not.

What can be a make or break deal for some: I easily found a free character generator for 4E back in the day, and since I tend to screw up numbers in my head, it definitely was helpful.

What are some newbie pitfalls? I've played videogames my whole life and have played D&D since 199X (not sure of the right date).

Don't make a non-augmented non-magical character.
Don't base your character around heavy weapon use, or driving planes.
Actually, it would be simpler to ask your DM when you find one. There are a lot of different kinds of advice, and what may be good in one case (3 IP per combat round) may be bad in a particular group configuration (non-optimization non-fighting campaign)

What forums, outside of giantitp of course, would one reccomend to find good community support for Shadowrun?

Dunno one in english.