General Shadowrun Questions

[Anonymouswizard]

Yeah, in short corps only want their employees to be emotionless robots. Their customers should ideally be the exact opposite.

But we have a conflict of interests here. We want our employees to be some of our customers, or else they'll funnel our hard earned money to our competitors. DO YOU WANT ARES TO HAVE MORE MARKET SHARE THAN US!?

The real answer, of course, is to have all your employees move to a corporate site, so you can legally pay them in food and board (produced and maintained by employees of your corporation of course).

[comicshorse]

But we have a conflict of interests here. We want our employees to be some of our customers, or else they'll funnel our hard earned money to our competitors. DO YOU WANT ARES TO HAVE MORE MARKET SHARE THAN US!?

The real answer, of course, is to have all your employees move to a corporate site, so you can legally pay them in food and board (produced and maintained by employees of your corporation of course).

Which is exactly why lots of Corporations pay their workers in Corporate Scrip that can only be used at their stores

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pfVvqLM_e4

[LibraryOgre]

IMO, the question about average intelligence of races has evolved over the editions. In 1e and 2e, the Average Orc and Troll was definitely presented as being stupider than the average human, elf, or dwarf. In later editions (I can't remember if this started with 3e or 4e), it was changed so your median orc or troll was about as smart as your median elf, dwarf, or human, but your mean was a bit lower, because the elf, dwarf, and human populations had more high numbers.

IIRC, 4e was also one of the ones that introduced that part of the reason for Troll and Orc lowered charismas was that their tusks made their pronunciation of most human languages difficult.

[Anonymouswizard]

IMO, the question about average intelligence of races has evolved over the editions. In 1e and 2e, the Average Orc and Troll was definitely presented as being stupider than the average human, elf, or dwarf. In later editions (I can't remember if this started with 3e or 4e), it was changed so your median orc or troll was about as smart as your median elf, dwarf, or human, but your mean was a bit lower, because the elf, dwarf, and human populations had more high numbers.

IIRC, 4e was also one of the ones that introduced that part of the reason for Troll and Orc lowered charismas was that their tusks made their pronunciation of most human languages difficult.

Part of the thing that confuses me is that in the (in-character) description of Trolls in the 3e core the writer implies that, while maybe not bright, the average Troll does not have weak intelligence (it does use the tusks excuse for why a Troll might sound dumb, I do like the idea of a Troll getting dental work and training so he can speak with an RP accent while handling human sized China with care). The problem is that, in 3e at least, the fluff seems to have changed to the 4e version (Orks and Trolls aren't particularly dumb, they just have fewer geniuses), while the mechanics support the 2e fluff (Trolls are as unperceptive and unanalytical as you can be except for rare exceptions).

[comicshorse]

So in a game last night my elven Street Samurai tried to bluff his way through customs as a Corporate Executive by explaining that his Wired Reflexes were for Squash games with the boss and the Smartgun link for Company Paintball games (Don't judge me)
Anyway it started me thinking if you or I (not our P.C.s) could have Cyberware or Bioware, what would you take ?
I've never fired a gun in anger in my life so no need for a smartgun link and I don't drive so no vehicle link. So what Cyberware or Bioware would you guys take ? Assume you have effectively unlimited cash and modern technology supports the cyberware ( i.e.) If you take a Smartgun Link smartgun technology exists

For me :
Datajack
Thermographic Vision (just for the fun of it)
Skillwires
Enhanced Articulation (I'm clumsy so it would be nice to stop bumping into things)
Suprahtyroid Gland ( hey I eat too much anyway might as well use it and being stronger and more agile would be nice to)
Pathogenic Defence ( no more colds !)

[Blue Duke]

Hello Playground, may i ask you something ? yes okay here goes: if a team member tries to run you down with a truck (to be fair he -was- aiming for the Humanis skinhead i was in a fist fight with but even i couldn't have dodged that truck if he had succeeded his drive roll) and then thinks its okay to try and run down a security guard not even primarily involved in a nonpaying legwork run...is it okay to take this person out by wiring their step van to explode ? Second: if two members of the same team take selfies with the corpse of a humanis cell leader with a burning house and the corpses of the humanis cell in the background WITH OUT WEARING ANY KIND OF FACIAL COVERING and then printing hard copies of it and dropping one on the table in front of said cell leaders brother while we were trying to sneak attack the guys guards (the character in question and i were dangling from the rafters on grapple lines)....could i also kill them or would it be better to have the character leave the team despite what ever story the DM has


TL:DR: My team is full of people who behave in ways that would cause a semi-sane in universe runner to leave them but the DM has a story i want to know if its okay to say 'screw screw it i'm not teaming with these people !' ?

[The Glyphstone]

I'd suggest having your character retire/drop the team, yes. Then you can make a new character who fits in with their zaniness and can continue the DM's story. That avoids both IC and OOC conflict resulting from internal PvP.

[Sith_Happens]

'Nother SIN question: If a bog-standard 'corper gets fired, can he trade in his presumably-suddenly-much-less-useful corporate limited SIN for a national SIN from whatever country he grew up in?

...Actually, now that I think about it, is it possible and/or allowed for one to have two legitimate SINs at once (e.g.– a corporate limited and a national)?

[shadow_archmagi]

I'd suggest having your character retire/drop the team, yes. Then you can make a new character who fits in with their zaniness and can continue the DM's story. That avoids both IC and OOC conflict resulting from internal PvP.

I second this. It sounds like the problem isn't that your group is being incautious, but that *you* are trying to play a very gritty game and nobody else is.

[LibraryOgre]

'Nother SIN question: If a bog-standard 'corper gets fired, can he trade in his presumably-suddenly-much-less-useful corporate limited SIN for a national SIN from whatever country he grew up in?

...Actually, now that I think about it, is it possible and/or allowed for one to have two legitimate SINs at once (e.g.– a corporate limited and a national)?

I always figured the SIN would remain the same SIN, just with a different "nationality" appended.

[DigoDragon]

I always figured the SIN would remain the same SIN, just with a different "nationality" appended.

Sort of like updating your passport, yeah?

[LibraryOgre]

Sort of like updating your passport, yeah?

More like moving between two departments in the same company, and updating your ID to reflect your that you no longer work in the "Library" but are now in the "IT Department".

In this conception, the SIN isn't something that the UCAS puts out, but rather an international system. So if I am born in the UCAS, I get a SIN. When I go to work for Knight-Errant, my SIN is updated to reflect that I am now an Ares corporate citizen. KE moves me to Atlanta, I keep my Ares identification on my SIN. I leave KE while living in Atlanta, my SIN is updated to reflect that I'm now in the CAS (presumably after a naturalization process). If I get a felony conviction in CAS, my SIN record is appended with a criminal notation that other SIN-reading entities can see. That might be a deterrent (they don't want a felon living there) or a bonus (SK has work for a former Ares employee with a conviction for breaking and entering and felony assault). If SK hires me above the table, my SIN gets updated again to reflect my new citizenship.

All this time, the number remains the same. I am always 7HQ-Z3246812-D23, no matter how my SIN is updated. If I were born SINless, then went to prison, my new SIN would be generated at that point... entering the system, as it were. But my SIN is always my SIN. It just conveys different information when you look it up, depending on changes in my life.

[Fenryr]

5th edition question.

My GM insisted on this. I believe the question doesn't need to involve more people but let's work with it.

Using Leadership, core book, page 141 and 142. It says "If you lead people who accept you as their (lone) superior, even temporarily, you can take a Complex Action to...".

I want to use Rally. What happens if X numbers of members accepts me as the leader and Y doesn't? I believe only X receive the bonus to Initiative Score.

[The Glyphstone]

If they don't consider you the leader, they don't get the benefit. It'd be silly any other way - the point of the skill is that they are listening to you and following your instructions/orders/encouragement.

[Sith_Happens]

Hello, my question today is about fake SINs.

In general, what situations do you bust out the high-rating SINs for and when is it better to use a cheap "burner" SIN?

[The Glyphstone]

SINS are expensive. I just get a decent mid-grade fake SIN and use it for everything until something goes pear-shaped and I have to burn it, then I buy a new one.

[TeChameleon]

In general, the 'burner' SINs are the ones used 'on the job', while I keep two or three high-grade ones- one for day-to-day living where having a consistent alias is an advantage, and one for the bugout bag, with the third variable one being for delicate jobs that need a (hopefully) indetectable fake SIN that won't come back to bite my character in his/her everyday life.

Of course, that presumes that the character will be staying in a consistent location for an extended period of time and actually has someplace that's 'home'. Would do it differently in a different situation.

[Sith_Happens]

Okay, so suppose I shell out for a rating six for backstory reasons, is there anything not worth risking it on that I'd want to use a cheaper backup for instead? Since it's probably relevant my character will also have a legitimate national SIN that he uses for day-to-day things and very much wants to keep as clean as possible.

[LibraryOgre]

Really, if you've got a level 6 SIN, that's your "I'm going to disappear now" SIN. That's the "Things are fubar'd and I need to run" SIN.

[Nifft]

My characters usually buy two expensive SINs.

One is the day-to-day living expenses SIN.

The other is the OH SH-- time-to-run SIN.

Jobs which require a specific identity will either require pre-payment for a new fake SIN of the appropriate level, or I'll just try to bull**** my way through with a stolen SIN, or without a SIN.

[Anonymouswizard]

I haven't had the chance to play, but for normal, everyday activities a low rating SIN should buy you a week or two. When planning pregenerated characters I try to give them two good fake SINs with identical lisences (so I have a backup), and then a bunch of cheap SINs for when I don't want to be tracked, of the 'use for a few hours and chuck' level of cheap.

When I run a rating 1 SIN can buy you an indefinite amount of time just living in a flat buying groceries and riding the bus, but won't let you have an official job or the lack. Some stuff is just going to be too common to look through them for fake SINs.

[DigoDragon]

I agree with much of the above on SINs. I usually have 1-2 good rated ones for my non-Runner identity when I need to do things like shop at the grocery store and when I need to burn the bridge and go into hiding. The rest are cheap ones I don't intend to use for more than the job I'm burning it on.

I used to have fun actually drawing out the SINs when I gamed locally. The cheap burnable ones tended to have injokes and puns in them, just for OOC humor to amuse my GM with.

[CantigThimble]

What do you guys think of the idea of buying negative qualities over the course of character progression? Obviously you can be assigned negative qualities by the gamemaster but what about things that you do on your own initiative? For example: deciding that you really want to help that guy you got fired and deciding to take him on as a dependent, or deciding you were really traumatized by that fire elemental attack and have a phobia of them. Naturally this could be used to powergame but that can easily be limited by making them worth half as much after character creation, just like how positive qualities cost twice as much after creation. Would you allow or encourage this in your own games?

[Anonymouswizard]

You can elect to take them, for a grand 0 points per quality. If I inflict them I may give some extra karma as compensation.

[LibraryOgre]

I might allow it, but I've also experimented with ditching Karma in favor of BPs as the character-improvement mechanic.

If you start doing this, though, consider the impact of the "Maximum number of Flaws" rules.

[TeChameleon]

If it's mostly RP driven, I'd likely let it fly in my game. If they're going to take a flaw (and it makes sense for them to do so) that has a mechanically-enforced penalty, I don't see any real reason not to let them take the attendant benefit as well.

That being said, my group's a bit of a funny one in that they have a strong desire to play 'by the rules', but their main focus is roleplay and storytelling. So it might work better for me than for some others.

[DigoDragon]

I'll agree with the RP-driven way of taking negative qualities, and the negative cap. As long as you don't pass the cap, I'd allow.

[Milodiah]

I mean, if they really want to handicap themselves, sure. As the GM I'll totally let them chop off their own arm or whatever (provided they find some way to overcome basic self-preservation instincts in-character...probably a hell of a lot of drugs). I'm not, however, going to reward them for it. I might be more generous with Karma in the future if they overcome the adversities they now face, but I'm not inclined to agree with getting BP/Karma out of qualities after chargen.

I should note, however, that I'm not too stringent with some of the things about qualities. I don't make players buy them off if there's a rational way to get rid of them in-universe. Enemy, for example, has always bothered me when you're expected to charge them out-of-game if they solve it in-game. "You took Ares Macrotechnology as an enemy, then personally saved Damien Knight himself from an assassin when no one else could? Too bad, they're still gonna be after ya unless you fork over some karma!"

I mean, I guess you could rationalize it by awarding them karma for doing that (it'd probably be worth a **** ton, after all) and then them turning around and spending it on buying off the disadvantage, but games like Shadowrun and GURPS (<-- official rendering as per SJG style guide) that make you use experience points to get rid of problems that can easily be fixed normally. You tend to end up with ridiculousness like (through a particularly strict reading of GURPS rules) not being allowed to get glasses if you took the -25 for having uncorrected vision instead of the -10 for having corrected sight unless you spend the 15 to rectify it.

[Jallorn]

I mean, if they really want to handicap themselves, sure. As the GM I'll totally let them chop off their own arm or whatever (provided they find some way to overcome basic self-preservation instincts in-character...probably a hell of a lot of drugs). I'm not, however, going to reward them for it. I might be more generous with Karma in the future if they overcome the adversities they now face, but I'm not inclined to agree with getting BP/Karma out of qualities after chargen.

I should note, however, that I'm not too stringent with some of the things about qualities. I don't make players buy them off if there's a rational way to get rid of them in-universe. Enemy, for example, has always bothered me when you're expected to charge them out-of-game if they solve it in-game. "You took Ares Macrotechnology as an enemy, then personally saved Damien Knight himself from an assassin when no one else could? Too bad, they're still gonna be after ya unless you fork over some karma!"

I mean, I guess you could rationalize it by awarding them karma for doing that (it'd probably be worth a **** ton, after all) and then them turning around and spending it on buying off the disadvantage, but games like Shadowrun and GURPS (<-- official rendering as per SJG style guide) that make you use experience points to get rid of problems that can easily be fixed normally. You tend to end up with ridiculousness like (through a particularly strict reading of GURPS rules) not being allowed to get glasses if you took the -25 for having uncorrected vision instead of the -10 for having corrected sight unless you spend the 15 to rectify it.

Well, with enemy, I've often seen rules state something along the lines of, "If you kill your rival/destroy your enemy/otherwise resolve the issue, a new enemy should arise as a result of the actions you took to do this until you buy off the disadvantage." That said, I don't see houseruling that away as unreasonable.

[shadow_archmagi]

Well, with enemy, I've often seen rules state something along the lines of, "If you kill your rival/destroy your enemy/otherwise resolve the issue, a new enemy should arise as a result of the actions you took to do this until you buy off the disadvantage." That said, I don't see houseruling that away as unreasonable.

It would make sense that personally saving Damien Knight would probably upset whoever was trying to kill him.