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  1. - Top - End - #151
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    The idea being "Here's a rough description of the guys that robbed us" and "Wait, we were robbed?" respectively.

    Also, laés is an Awakened drug, so it doesn't come up on mundane scans. Should a healing mage go all wibbly-wobbly magic-diagnosis, he'll pick it up, but not the average urinalysis. Which is in and of itself not something DocWagon does when they pull up to a suspected concussion patient.
    Last edited by Milodiah; 2015-04-12 at 10:30 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Do not try a linear campaign, without some discussion with them. Players very often look at your hooks and then try to accomplish it in a different way, not touch it, try to do the complete opposite, or somehow set it on fire.

  2. - Top - End - #152
    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    So, this is a bit of a 1e/2e question, but feel free to chime in with later perspectives, since it's a hypothetical.

    So, the bioware Symbiotes and Suprathyroid both require additional food intake. Is this just pure calories, or do they have increased nutritional requirements of other stuff, too? I mean, they mention that folks with these are noshing non-stop, but I was also thinking of the option of just going with high-calorie options... like protein powder, milkshakes, etc.
    The Cranky Gamer
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  3. - Top - End - #153
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    I'd think it was just pure calorie requirement.
    I'd say the reason people would be eating constantly is, well if you could eat all you like and just burn it off why waste that on tasteless protein powder when you could be eating steaks, chocolate, cakes, greasy food............God I'm hungry now
    All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    Just from a biology explanation, I'd say that you'd need at least some additional nutrients, if not the exact palate of a typical metahuman. Thyroids need Iodine right, a thyroid with additional output would require additional iodine to carry out its functions.
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    My motto: Repensum Est Canicula.

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    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
    Leiningen will win, even if he must lose in the attempt.

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  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    How much more calories? The protein powder sounds like an idea. Just add some extra vitamins and snacks to round it out.
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  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    I seem to recall Shadowtech talking about recipients just packing protein bars as an alternative to constantly stuffing your face with regular food. So pure calories wouldn't be enough, but mix some proteins in and you're golden.
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  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Lord Torath's Avatar

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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    Virtual Realities 2.0/3.0 question: Other than Sleaze and Deception, what are the best programs to max out?
    Warhammer 40,000 Campaign Skirmish Game: Warpstrike
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  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Okay, so help me understand this to be sure I've got it right. 5th edition rules, I'm trying to make sure I've got this right.
    So
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    Step 1: I'm casting Stunball
    Step 2: I'd like to cast the stunball at force 4 because while I'm pretty awesome at resisting drain, I'd like it to stick around for a while and have a good potency and not risk going into the coming fight with a splitting headache.
    Step 3: The lynchpin is an engraved credstick that will serve to lure the greedy to pick it up.
    Step 4: The trigger is a Contact Trigger, upping the Drain Value by +1
    Step 5: I spend 4 minutes prepping my sleep bomb. Not using reagents, I roll my Alchemy + Magic (6 and 6, with a +2 from my Focus) and try to beat an opposed roll of the force of the spell (4), scoring six successes vs 2 and therefore making my bomb potency 4 (net hits of 4). It will persist for 8 hours from its moment of creation, additional hits wouldn't count because the Force of the spell is acting as the limit anyway.
    Step 6: Being a shaman I roll Charisma + Willpower against the force of the spell plus the trigger cost. 7 + 4 dice vs 4 dice, if I wind up with any net hits I don't take damage, if the spell gets net hits I take that much stun damage (because the force of the spell is below my magic rating).

    Step 7 (AKA Payoff): A couple hours later, my target idiot picks up a credstick thinking it's his lucky day. The stunball being an area of effect, it blasts out to a radius of 4 meters because of its force, rolling 4 Potency in place of Spellcasting ability and 4 Force in place of Magic, with a limit of 4 (for the force) again. Since the idiot and his goons aren't expecting it, they don't get defense rolls, so all hits are net hits, but even if they did they'd be at a -2 penalty because it's AOE. The damage value is 4 (force) + the net hits. They get to roll their Willpower because it's a Mana spell to reduce the damage, they fail to score hits, and so they wind up taking (say) 6 stun damage and while not unconscious are rendered easier pickings for myself and my friends in the van with tazers.

    Seems like a whole lot of iteration of a couple numbers. I'm trying to figure out where the optimal tradeoff is on force to get the highest probable potency + force with my available rolls. It seems like it's more tempting to ramp up the power on low-drain spells, but also that the roll against force to make it a triggered preparation makes it more risky to do so regardless of drain...
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    My motto: Repensum Est Canicula.

    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
    Leiningen will win, even if he must lose in the attempt.

    Credit to Astrella for the new party avatar.

  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    I have a problem and I was hoping the Playground has some insight. My party consists of 2 mages (Hermetic and Shaman), a Cyberdoc/Face, a Hacker, and a Rigger (me). The problem is that when the Hacker and I do our Matrix thing, the rest of the party feels sidelined (admittedly part of the problem is the GM throwing surprises at us, part is the party leaving in the middle of a run, and part is us not knowing the rules)*. Since I plan on having a lot of drones, I'm thinking of giving control of them to the ones not involved. Do you guys have any ideas on drones that would still be fun for them? Or any other advice on the situation in general?

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    So the run was to get some paydata from a Renraku R&D facility. The Cyberdoc/Face, the Hermetic Mage, and I got invites to a party for rich investors at the location, the other two posed as tech support. The Face refuses to let us see his face (for all we know he's just the Johnson), and so we don't even know he's at the party. When the Hacker and I get set up, the Face decides to leave to establish an airtight alibi. The rest of the run consisted the Hermetic babysitting my unconscious body as I piloted a drone into the restricted area, and the Hacker trying to get us access to the network. I say trying because everytime the Hacker established an admin account, there was another even more secret network that we needed to hack. Happened at least 4 times. The entire run took about 8 hours over 2 sessions.
    See when a tree falls in the forest, and there's no one there to hear it, you can bet we've bought the vinyl.
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  10. - Top - End - #160
    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    Giving the rest of your party control of drones/sprites while rigging and hacking is a great idea. The nested security levels, though... that sounds like a GM issue.

    Generally, once you get past 2nd edition SR (IIRC, the last edition to deal with the idea of "Matrix locations as a dungeon to be explored"), and especially once you get to 4e's wireless, most hacking should require only a few checks, and no more game time than anyone else is getting.
    The Cranky Gamer
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  11. - Top - End - #161
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hall View Post
    Giving the rest of your party control of drones/sprites while rigging and hacking is a great idea. The nested security levels, though... that sounds like a GM issue.

    Generally, once you get past 2nd edition SR (IIRC, the last edition to deal with the idea of "Matrix locations as a dungeon to be explored"), and especially once you get to 4e's wireless, most hacking should require only a few checks, and no more game time than anyone else is getting.
    Yeah, I plan on talking to him about that, and about my plot hook. My character is being targeted by a hacker group playing tricks on me, I'm gonna ask that they make themselves known to the party so I have an easier time getting them all involved in the plot rather than having a session turn into just me dealing with them. I guess I forgot the mention the is 4e. I plan on having at least a Doberman and a Fly-Spy, but I'm not sure the Fly-Spy would be much of an improvement.
    See when a tree falls in the forest, and there's no one there to hear it, you can bet we've bought the vinyl.
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  12. - Top - End - #162
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    I kinda feel like the GM wanted to impress on you guys that "this network is really really secure, but really only succeeded in padding it out with excess depth that you guys could absolutely still crack...I don't subscribe to the network-as-dungeon theory, but one area that I do see the overlap is in the challenge construction. Either you let the players resolve it with a handful of checks, or you insert an actual ingenious security system that requires preparation and planning to breach...don't draw it out like this nonsense here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Do not try a linear campaign, without some discussion with them. Players very often look at your hooks and then try to accomplish it in a different way, not touch it, try to do the complete opposite, or somehow set it on fire.

  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Milodiah View Post
    I kinda feel like the GM wanted to impress on you guys that "this network is really really secure, but really only succeeded in padding it out with excess depth that you guys could absolutely still crack...I don't subscribe to the network-as-dungeon theory, but one area that I do see the overlap is in the challenge construction. Either you let the players resolve it with a handful of checks, or you insert an actual ingenious security system that requires preparation and planning to breach...don't draw it out like this nonsense here.
    I've used netwprk-as-area before in order to slow down the hacker, mainly 'if you wa not to unlock the door it'll take the rest of the turn to locate the controls'. I agree that most hacks should be an attack/hack on the fly check and out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
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  14. - Top - End - #164
    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    Keep in mind, I'm not talking about "Network as dungeon" as a theory... in 1e (and, IIRC, 2e), it was a fact. You had various nodes, and those nodes connected to other nodes. You could only get between nodes by traversing Node A to Node B to Node C, or by getting to the Core and teleporting to any node you liked.

    If you played the any of the console Shadowrun games, or Shadowrun Returns, those very clearly have "Matrix as a dungeon" levels.
    The Cranky Gamer
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    *Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
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  15. - Top - End - #165
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    Right, I only refer to it as a theory because that attitude persists in some GMs even in later editions. It's undeniably a fact in the earlier ones.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Do not try a linear campaign, without some discussion with them. Players very often look at your hooks and then try to accomplish it in a different way, not touch it, try to do the complete opposite, or somehow set it on fire.

  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milodiah View Post
    I kinda feel like the GM wanted to impress on you guys that "this network is really really secure, but really only succeeded in padding it out with excess depth that you guys could absolutely still crack...I don't subscribe to the network-as-dungeon theory, but one area that I do see the overlap is in the challenge construction. Either you let the players resolve it with a handful of checks, or you insert an actual ingenious security system that requires preparation and planning to breach...don't draw it out like this nonsense here.
    That's exactly what he was trying to do, and didn't want to make a closed network. He thought we'd accuse him of either making things harder than it needed to be, or that the network wouldn't make sense.
    See when a tree falls in the forest, and there's no one there to hear it, you can bet we've bought the vinyl.
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  17. - Top - End - #167
    Librarian in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Random NPC View Post
    That's exactly what he was trying to do, and didn't want to make a closed network. He thought we'd accuse him of either making things harder than it needed to be, or that the network wouldn't make sense.
    To be fair, I can see a system that has a couple of layers like that, simply for security. Lone Star demands you unlock your phone, they provide a search warrant... and you open the less-secure section, so your hidden partition stays hidden.
    The Cranky Gamer
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    *Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
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  18. - Top - End - #168
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    The most secure possible thing one can do with a network is to create an air gap - which is making a closed network without outside access. Not to mention it provides the other runners with a chance to contribute to the hack...it's the difference between sitting in a café watching the hacker hack, and inserting this hacker into enemy territory stealthily.
    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    Do not try a linear campaign, without some discussion with them. Players very often look at your hooks and then try to accomplish it in a different way, not touch it, try to do the complete opposite, or somehow set it on fire.

  19. - Top - End - #169
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milodiah View Post
    The most secure possible thing one can do with a network is to create an air gap - which is making a closed network without outside access. Not to mention it provides the other runners with a chance to contribute to the hack...it's the difference between sitting in a café watching the hacker hack, and inserting this hacker into enemy territory stealthily.
    That's what I ended up telling him.
    See when a tree falls in the forest, and there's no one there to hear it, you can bet we've bought the vinyl.
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  20. - Top - End - #170
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Milodiah View Post
    The most secure possible thing one can do with a network is to create an air gap - which is making a closed network without outside access. Not to mention it provides the other runners with a chance to contribute to the hack...it's the difference between sitting in a café watching the hacker hack, and inserting this hacker into enemy territory stealthily.
    One way of justifying it is have the Johnson pay the runners to steal a backup of the target's data. This entails breaking into whatever storage facility is holding the "tape back up" (flash drive in this case probably), searching for it within the database, then physically going to that location and grabbing it. Something for everyone to do!
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  21. - Top - End - #171
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    Lord Torath's Avatar

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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    2E Question: Is Heavy Armor considered to be Hardened armor? So someone in Heavy Full Suit w/ a Helmet (9 Ballistic/7 Impact) is immune to any regular firearm with a power of 9 or lower? (Yes, some firearms use impact, or half-impact armor instead of ballistic. Pretend I'm ignoring those for this case).
    Last edited by Lord Torath; 2015-04-20 at 04:14 PM.
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  22. - Top - End - #172
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    Tricky, neither 2nd or 3rd core book refers to it as such
    The 'Cannon Companion' (p 51) refers to military grade armour which has roughly the same stats but is more expensive and needs to be suited to each individual wearer but is Hardened.
    So I'd say unless the armour is proper, made for you, military grade stuff it isn't Hardened
    All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem

  23. - Top - End - #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    Tricky, neither 2nd or 3rd core book refers to it as such
    The 'Cannon Companion' (p 51) refers to military grade armour which has roughly the same stats but is more expensive and needs to be suited to each individual wearer but is Hardened.
    So I'd say unless the armour is proper, made for you, military grade stuff it isn't Hardened
    Fields of Fire also has the Military Grade Armor (p54), which is explicitly Hardened. And you can ad Gel Packs (p53) to get Hardened Armor for other gear. So yeah, I think you're right. Only the Military or Gel-Pack armor counts.

    So, what's the opinion on how far a Fashion spell will go toward concealing heavy or military armor?
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  24. - Top - End - #174
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    Although the 2nd edition Grimoire says nothing on this 'Magic in the Shadows' says that the spell can only change armour with a total (ballistic and Impact) armour rating equal to the Force of the Spell (+1 per two successes gained)
    This does seem a little harsh so I'd suggest maybe applying this rule but taking the highest of the Ballistic or Impact rating which would make it possible to Fashion military armour but damn hard but still allow your mage to Fashion more conventional armour with relative ease
    Last edited by comicshorse; 2015-04-21 at 12:33 PM.
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  25. - Top - End - #175
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    I like that limitation (the maximum armor rating, not the total of ballistic and impact). You could also allow Fashion to alter the color/markings of any armor that's above its Force rating, but not otherwise affect it.

    The target for Fashion is only 4, so successes won't be too hard to come by. Force 4 Fashion will typically get 2 successes by itself, plus another 3 or so from your magic pool, so you can modify Heavy Armor. A Karma Pool Reroll will get you another 2-3 successes, getting you up to 11-12, which lets you play with Light or Medium Millitary armor. Oh, wait. It's +1 armor for every two successes. Okay, so that reliably lets you modify Armor 6, maybe 9 with the Karma re-roll. Okay, that's a bit better.

    Drain is F/2+2 Moderate, so with a Willpower of 6, you're likely looking at a light stun (3 successes lowers the drain to Light). Twenty minutes of rest will (most likely) eliminate that. And since it's a permanent spell, you can do it ahead of time so drain usually won't be too much of an issue.
    Last edited by Lord Torath; 2015-04-21 at 01:41 PM.
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  26. - Top - End - #176
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    So, for a game I'm GMing the party is up against toxics, and while so far they've been up against a lot of summoners, that just hasn't been working out, because we have ONE mage. Everyone else hasn't had much to do, and I've had to dumb down a few encounters to prevent things from going topsy turvy.

    Anyway, I was thinking of throwing some mystic adepts at them. Idea being sorta avatar style martial artists who happen to throw radioactive fireballs as part of their martial arts.

    Only I know next to nothing about Adepts and how to make one a decent challenge. Any tips?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
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  27. - Top - End - #177
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    So, for a game I'm GMing the party is up against toxics, and while so far they've been up against a lot of summoners, that just hasn't been working out, because we have ONE mage. Everyone else hasn't had much to do, and I've had to dumb down a few encounters to prevent things from going topsy turvy.

    Anyway, I was thinking of throwing some mystic adepts at them. Idea being sorta avatar style martial artists who happen to throw radioactive fireballs as part of their martial arts.

    Only I know next to nothing about Adepts and how to make one a decent challenge. Any tips?
    Basically, such mystic adepts are going to be about specialization. I would have them be mostly mages, with a sort of low force cap on spells... but with something else in the form of Adept Abilties.

    So, you might have the Wind adept have 2 power points tied up in stealth abilities, but 4 points in spellcasting. The Earth Adept might have loaded up on mystic armor, and only have a bit of spellcasting.

    I'd look at them and say "What piece of cyberware do I REALLY want them to have" then make that into an adept power.
    The Cranky Gamer
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    *Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
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  28. - Top - End - #178
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    So, for a game I'm GMing the party is up against toxics, and while so far they've been up against a lot of summoners, that just hasn't been working out, because we have ONE mage. Everyone else hasn't had much to do, and I've had to dumb down a few encounters to prevent things from going topsy turvy.

    Anyway, I was thinking of throwing some mystic adepts at them. Idea being sorta avatar style martial artists who happen to throw radioactive fireballs as part of their martial arts.

    Only I know next to nothing about Adepts and how to make one a decent challenge. Any tips?
    We are talking SR4E/A right?

    In which case the issue with mystic adepts is that they demand a huge investment for subpar rewards, having to split up their magic score between adept powers and spells, meaning they get a pretty low score for either/both.

    That issue does not exist with NPCs, you can raise their magic stat higher than it should be, or whip out something like "they got these powers from toxic spirits" and that they don't follow normal rules.

    It also gives you flexibility, have the guy with low-ish magic for spells fight the mundane, and the one who still got most of his magic for spellcasting fight the mage.

    As far as shooting fireballs avatar-style, the spell for radioactive fire exists in the SOX supplement, so their martial moves may only be fluff, something you narrate but has no existence rules-wise (besides a high-ish unarmed combat score maybe?) as they cast their spells. Or, if you want to go the adept route, you can combine killing hands+elemental strike+distance strike, for a total of 3PP, houseroule the element damage to be radioactive fire, and you're good to go. They don't hit very hard though, so you might want to add critical strike, and to leave enough points to leave enhanced reflexes on a sustained focus.
    Last edited by Alberic Strein; 2015-04-24 at 05:59 AM.
    I'm here to kick ass and call you names... And I'm not very witty.

  29. - Top - End - #179
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Alberic Strein View Post
    We are talking SR4E/A right?

    In which case the issue with mystic adepts is that they demand a huge investment for subpar rewards, having to split up their magic score between adept powers and spells, meaning they get a pretty low score for either/both.

    That issue does not exist with NPCs, you can raise their magic stat higher than it should be, or whip out something like "they got these powers from toxic spirits" and that they don't follow normal rules.

    It also gives you flexibility, have the guy with low-ish magic for spells fight the mundane, and the one who still got most of his magic for spellcasting fight the mage.

    As far as shooting fireballs avatar-style, the spell for radioactive fire exists in the SOX supplement, so their martial moves may only be fluff, something you narrate but has no existence rules-wise (besides a high-ish unarmed combat score maybe?) as they cast their spells. Or, if you want to go the adept route, you can combine killing hands+elemental strike+distance strike, for a total of 3PP, houseroule the element damage to be radioactive fire, and you're good to go. They don't hit very hard though, so you might want to add critical strike, and to leave enough points to leave enhanced reflexes on a sustained focus.
    There's radiation element rules in Street Magic. Though yes, that does seem like a decent idea. Though a large portion of my issue was just straight not knowing how to do an adept that works. I've never touched them before.
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  30. - Top - End - #180
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: General Shadowrun Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    There's radiation element rules in Street Magic. Though yes, that does seem like a decent idea. Though a large portion of my issue was just straight not knowing how to do an adept that works. I've never touched them before.
    Well, you are in luck since that, compared to your players, you have a lot less to care about, no long term evolution, no usefulness to the group in a typical shadowrun, you can really go crazy with your guys.

    As for building them proper, it strongly depends on the optimization level of your group. An adept with Warrior's Way, 6 in magic (2.5pp enhanced reflexes 2 ; 0.5pp killing hands ; 2pp distance strike ; 0.5pp elemental strike ; 0.5pp critical strike 2), unarmed at 6, B:3 A:4 R:4(6) S:5 C:2 I:4 L:2 W:4 is looking at a 10 dicepool and 7p damage resisted with (half impact armor)+body 3 times a turn, with an initiative of 10. Is that ridiculously weak compared to your players? If so, you can add a single point in martial arts, get Kung-fu, add +1DV to unarmed attacks, get the finishing blow maneuver (attacking a second time before the enemy can is good) add the martial arts:kung-fu specialization for unarmed combat and it's now an 8P with a 12 dicepool. And so on.

    Basically do what Mark hall said, have them specialize in one thing. If their role in the story is kicking flames into your players' faces, then raise their fighting stats as high as possible, then perception, gymnastics (for those classy dodges), sneaking and athletics skills and you've pretty much got your ninjas.

    Also, I'm definitely not an optimizer, or at least not a decent one, so you may want to get someone else's opinion.
    I'm here to kick ass and call you names... And I'm not very witty.

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