Upcoming Screw Attack Death Battle

[Traab]

I dont know how many people follow this, but I had to bring it up here. The current one being setup is Garra from Naruto versus Toph from Avatar. I dunno, I just dont see this ending well for Toph. Even with shukakku out of the equation, garra has the ability to grind the earth into sand and take full control over it. Not only that, his defense is obscenely strong, and I dont think chunks of rock will be able to break it unless toph has some sort of super sonic attack feats to her name. At first I thought it was even worse, that garra could literally just fly and Toph would be utterly helpless, being unable to locate someone not in contact with the ground, but it looks like they are going with "she can sense earth everywhere" or some such thing, so she might be able to tell where his platform is. But even without that I just dont see what skills she has that could possibly beat garra. The longer the fight goes on, the harder it swings in his favor as the terrain turns into a desert around them.

Am I missing something here? I admit I wasnt actually a huge avatar fan, but I did watch more than a few episodes, so I know how it went. And while they talk about shukakku, they dont directly imply he will be a part of the fight, so who knows what will happen. If he IS a part of this, and this is early crazy eye garra, she is so royally boned its beyond belief. I dont foresee her taking down a 200 foot tall entity of sand that has air attacks strong enough to make aang gawk.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Yeah... as much as I like Toph she is pretty much boned, heck Gaara doesn't really need to do anything fancy, a simple sand prison+sand burial combo and she is dead. Even pre-Shippuden Gaara was on a completely different level than most AtlA's characters.

[Metahuman1]

This is a stupid match up. If played competently, it would be Rocket Tag.

Toph could bend the sand and crush Gaara with it if she acted first. If Gaara Acts first, he can overwhelm her by sheer volume. It should be more or less exclusively decided by who acts with half a brain cell first.


This being screw attack, it likely won't. No idea what's gonna happen in that case.

[Man on Fire]

No mater who wins thre will be so many angry fanboys, the rage will be delicious. Somebody brings the popcorn.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

As a character I much, MUCH prefer Toph (no offense Gaar). But she's screwed. Badly. Death Battle hasn't got a decent match up OR a decent win since before that Goku-Superman video. Not that Goku would have won, but they skewed the fight so hard in Supes' favor it became forgone a conclusion. And the Buu-Kirby fight was an outright farce.

But Toph? Dead. Buried. GG. No rez.

[Zevox]

Even with shukakku out of the equation, garra has the ability to grind the earth into sand and take full control over it. [...] The longer the fight goes on, the harder it swings in his favor as the terrain turns into a desert around them.

I don't know anything about the Naruto character, so I can't be much help here, but I think a detail about this is worth pointing out. While Toph does have trouble with sand during the middle of the second season of Avatar, in one of the finale episodes we learn that she's been practicing sandbending, and to judge by the elaborate sculpture of Ba Sing Se she makes with it in a second just to show off her progress, it seems like she got it down. So turning the terrain into a desert doesn't actually hurt her ability to fight.

On the other hand, you mention the guy flying on a platform, which would. As you mentioned, she can't see anything not in contact with the ground - her sight is basically D&D-style tremorsense. The guys for this show may be ignoring that, but if so that's them choosing to give her an ability she never had in order to make this an actual fight, not just a one-sided beatdown.

[Lord Raziere]

yeeeeaaaaaahhh.....is there any wonder I don't like Screw Attack? y'know aside from me being a Dragonball Z fan?

I like both characters but, Toph isn't going to win this. Gaara without Shikaku is a person who doesn't need to move to defend against most of the attacks that come at him, has techniques to crush bones, can create sand clones even if you pierce his defenses, and can pretty much turn any ground around him into a sand ocean tidal wave. Toph doesn't come close to that.

an if Toph somehow wins anyways, thats just bull. the only person who really has a chance getting by in Naruto's world from Avatar's world is probably the Avatar themselves, because Naruto is higher powered and full of dedicated assassins and killers all trained to think tactically and whatnot. Rock Lee alone would be happy to show the benders how he can pretty much kick all their asses before they can react properly, and he doesn't even know ninjutsu or genjutsu.

Edit: because y'know, Garra? in canon? he beat Rock Lee. for reference, Rock Lee has both super-speed AND really powerful punches capable of breaking bones, enough to kick Garra around like a rag doll back forth between himself as he ran at insane speeds, and Rock Lee still lost. I don't see Toph withstanding even Rock Lee much less Garra, because any solid wall she puts up probably wouldn't come up in time and even if they did, Rock Lee would probably punch through them, so Garra pretty much is going to win this.

[MLai]

I'll assume pre-Shippuuden non-godbeast Garra... but Garra's sand attacks seem pretty slow, and the implacability of his sandwave attacks come from the fact that his opponents can't realistically do anything against the sand (you can't punch it, you can't block it, etc). If we're talking about a Toph who has practiced sandbending, then what can Garra do? Toph will just "parry away" the slow waves of sand the way you can parry away a slow punch.

Garra can bury Toph under a mountain of sand, but so what? That can stop any normal person but it can't stop an earthbender who can burrow under the earth like a giant sandworm. It comes down to whether the pressure Garra can exert on his Sand Burial technique is greater than the pressure Toph can counteract. Keep in mind that Toph can counteract A LOT of earth pressure; she can dig a mine under a lake by herself.

Only initial advantage I can see is that Toph's tremor-sense is compromised in sand, whether or not she can bend the sand.

[Prime32]

Let's see... Gaara:

• Can fly, and is fighting someone who can only see things in contact with the ground
• Can manipulate quantities of sand the size of entire forests, with greater control than any Sandbender has shown (down to hardening it into a diamond-like substance)
• Has "personal sand" that can't be controlled by others, which reacts to attacks he isn't aware of and which he wears as armour
• Can use his abilities without moving, whereas Toph is helpless if bound
• Is a ninja, meaning he can do things like run on walls, walk on water (which again screws with Toph) and move so fast he seems to teleport
• Has scrying powers, giving him an intelligence advantage
• Can turn into a kaiju. Even Avatars have trouble fighting kaiju

So yeah.

[Metahuman1]

Again. Gaara's personal sand is not an advantage, in fact, it's at serious risk of becoming a liability, because it's gonna be a NASTY surprise when he finds out she's the first opponent he's ever run across that can use it against him.


That said, as I stated above, this should by rights be rocket tag, and was not a well though out match.

[BWR]

I thought Toph had problems with, or even was incapable of, sandbending. If this Gaara person is as powerful as people give the impression of, I forsee Toph going down hard.

[Metahuman1]

Ok.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2SYDrQw3YY


Go to the 1:28 mark of this episode. Watch it till it hits the 1:36 second mark.


Then tell me she can't control sand well enough to be a serious threat to a guy who's entire defense is built on putting nothing but air and sand, only the latter of which he has any real control over, on his body.

[Prime32]

Again. Gaara's personal sand is not an advantage, in fact, it's at serious risk of becoming a liability, because it's gonna be a NASTY surprise when he finds out she's the first opponent he's ever run across that can use it against him.

I'm not sure why she'd be able to, given that it's possessed by a demon and a ghost (which would require Spiritbending to influence) and is effectively part of Gaara's body (which is enough to stop Waterbenders unless they learn a special technique).

[Traab]

Ok.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2SYDrQw3YY


Go to the 1:28 mark of this episode. Watch it till it hits the 1:36 second mark.


Then tell me she can't control sand well enough to be a serious threat to a guy who's entire defense is built on putting nothing but air and sand, only the latter of which he has any real control over, on his body.

Im pretty sure we dont bother playing games of who can take control of the element over. Two universes, two power sources, neither can control the others element. Toph throws rocks earth and (if she can find some) metal around, garra has total control of sand. There is absolutely no reason to think toph could ever, in a million years, control garras sand. That is HIS power. Besides, do earth benders actually struggle to control each others attacks? Or do they just use their own to block, deflect or attack the others? Im pretty sure most benders, when fighting a bender of the same element do that. They dont shut down the others ability to bend, they just fight back with their own chunk of the element. The difference between toph and garra is, Garra is repeatedly shown to grind earth into sand to use for his larger attacks. It is explicitly a part of his skill set.

[Jayngfet]

Im pretty sure we dont bother playing games of who can take control of the element over. Two universes, two power sources, neither can control the others element. Toph throws rocks earth and (if she can find some) metal around, garra has total control of sand. There is absolutely no reason to think toph could ever, in a million years, control garras sand. That is HIS power. Besides, do earth benders actually struggle to control each others attacks? Or do they just use their own to block, deflect or attack the others? Im pretty sure most benders, when fighting a bender of the same element do that. They dont shut down the others ability to bend, they just fight back with their own chunk of the element. The difference between toph and garra is, Garra is repeatedly shown to grind earth into sand to use for his larger attacks. It is explicitly a part of his skill set.

Toph is an earthbender. Not "Earth from avatarverse" but earth.

The only real reason Toph had an issue with sandbending wasn't because she couldn't do it, but because loose, wild sand isn't easy to do the sonar trick through so it's hard to do it in the middle of the desert. It's entirely possible for Toph to just rip his gourd clean off and beat him over the head with it.

The only real concern is that Gaara can go airborn, whereas Toph explicitly also has trouble with opponents that don't touch the ground properly. Between that and the sand that's probably the real reason she'd lose.

[Traab]

Toph is an earthbender. Not "Earth from avatarverse" but earth.

The only real reason Toph had an issue with sandbending wasn't because she couldn't do it, but because loose, wild sand isn't easy to do the sonar trick through so it's hard to do it in the middle of the desert. It's entirely possible for Toph to just rip his gourd clean off and beat him over the head with it.

The only real concern is that Gaara can go airborn, whereas Toph explicitly also has trouble with opponents that don't touch the ground properly. Between that and the sand that's probably the real reason she'd lose.

Oh bull crap, garra has demonically enforced total and utter control over sand, toph doesnt stand a chance of controlling it. He doesnt do jutsus, he doesnt need to focus, he controls sand like he controls his right arm. Garra controls it all. And every attack toph launches at him will be blocked, ground to more sand, and returned to sender. Toph has nothing capable of breaking through his defenses.

[Prime32]

It comes down to whether the pressure Garra can exert on his Sand Burial technique is greater than the pressure Toph can counteract. Keep in mind that Toph can counteract A LOT of earth pressure; she can dig a mine under a lake by herself.

Keep in mind that Kakashi can tunnel through the ground while being far less powerful than Gaara, and Gaara can hold his sand together with enough strength to defend against city-busting bombs and giant meteors (as for offense he can do stuff like this).

Also bear in mind that Gaara is capable of using Wind jutsu (which are far more destructive than airbending and can be used to sneak sand onto peoples' bodies to control them) and Lightning jutsu (which specialise in breaking barriers of earth and stone).

[Aotrs Commander]

I think the fundemental flaw in these verses things is that it would be MUCH more fun to see the people involved team-up and pummel some villain instead.

(With the notable exception of one of the only two Screw Attack Death Battles I've seen, which was Starscream verses Rainbow Dash, because, much as Starscream is by far my favourite Transformer, that was so totally, hilariously awesome it was worth it.)

Toph and Gaara teaming up would be freaking AWESOME, because on top of showcasing their powers, it would showcase their actual, y'know, characters.

[Traab]

Keep in mind that Kakashi can tunnel through the ground, and Gaara can hold his sand together with enough strength to defend against city-busting bombs and giant meteors.

Also bear in mind that Gaara is capable of using Wind jutsu (which are far more destructive than airbending and can be used to sneak sand onto peoples' bodies to control them) and Lightning jutsu (which specialise in breaking barriers of earth and stone).

Garra used lightning jutsus? I dont think they are bringing in shippuden feats here, they seemed to focus on pre timeskip garra mostly. So even his wind attacks were more sandstorm attacks. But even without that, he is known for grinding earth and stone into sand and taking control of it, so earth barriers are pretty damn useless as anything but a very short term shield.

[Calemyr]

Okay, I try to keep out of this stuff, but this one is just too much. Toph rules, period. Unfortunately she's got two extreme weaknesses: blindness to things not touching the ground and trouble seeing through sand. Absolute end-game Toph might be able to overcome the second failing, but sand would still be her least effective terrain. So pitting her against a flying sand master in a desert... yeah. This isn't Goku vs Superman, it's Krillin vs Superman.

But why are we assuming the venue is so heavily slanted in Gaara's favor? Place them in a rock quarry where Gaara needs to create secondary sand rather than just be given an unlimited supply. Or place them in a metal-rich environment and let the bending genius show some of her strengths as well?

It's that genius aspect that could decide the fight for Toph, assuming a fair arena. I've never been a big Naruto nut, but from what I've seen there's really nothing creative about Gaara. He's brutal, he's instinctive, and he's talented, but he doesn't seem to put much actual thought into things. Other ninjas plan and plot and agonize over tactics, while Gaara just is. Toph does think, however. She has to, because her difficulties require her to be creative to overcome them. Unlike most advanced benders, Toph figured out metal bending herself. And while it took the original bloodbender years in a cage to figure out her art, Toph did it in a matter of hours.

Short version: Toph isn't going to win a straight up brawl, especially not in a desert. If she wins, it'd be by being more inventive and adaptive than Mr. Sandman.

[Prime32]

Garra used lightning jutsus?

I don't think he's ever been shown using them (presumably because his sand is more effective in just about any situation), but the supplemental material says he can.

[Traab]

Okay, I try to keep out of this stuff, but this one is just too much. Toph rules, period. Unfortunately she's got two extreme weaknesses: blindness to things not touching the ground and trouble seeing through sand. Absolute end-game Toph might be able to overcome the second failing, but sand would still be her least effective terrain. So pitting her against a flying sand master in a desert... yeah. This isn't Goku vs Superman, it's Krillin vs Superman.

But why are we assuming the venue is so heavily slanted in Gaara's favor? Place them in a rock quarry where Gaara needs to create secondary sand rather than just be given an unlimited supply. Or place them in a metal-rich environment and let the bending genius show some of her strengths as well?

It's that genius aspect that could decide the fight for Toph, assuming a fair arena. I've never been a big Naruto nut, but from what I've seen there's really nothing creative about Gaara. He's brutal, he's instinctive, and he's talented, but he doesn't seem to put much actual thought into things. Other ninjas plan and plot and agonize over tactics, while Gaara just is. Toph does think, however. She has to, because her difficulties require her to be creative to overcome them. Unlike most advanced benders, Toph figured out metal bending herself. And while it took the original bloodbender years in a cage to figure out her art, Toph did it in a matter of hours.

Short version: Toph isn't going to win a straight up brawl, especially not in a desert. If she wins, it'd be by being more inventive and adaptive than Mr. Sandman.

Honestly, I was imaging this taking place in a more or less open field. Garra has significant amounts of sand in his gourd to start with, but takes time to prepare the terrain and turn it into a desert. Toph has plenty of earth to work with but we arent giving her every advantage on a plate by putting her in a foundry built inside a mountain. I may have to watch the garra/kimmimaru fight again to see about how long it took him to say, "Ok, time for a terrain change, I hereby declare this biome to be... desert!" And it was desert, and it was scary. I will agree toph has the mental edge, though too be fair, thats mainly because there has been no challenge to garra in any way shape or form till lee started committing egregious acts of violence to the sound barrier and having enough raw physical force to break through his basic shield. Up till then noone could do diddly squat against him in a fight. Because his defense is that strong, and his sand is a terrifyingly dangerous weapon.

[Prime32]

It's that genius aspect that could decide the fight for Toph, assuming a fair arena. I've never been a big Naruto nut, but from what I've seen there's really nothing creative about Gaara. He's brutal, he's instinctive, and he's talented, but he doesn't seem to put much actual thought into things. Other ninjas plan and plot and agonize over tactics, while Gaara just is. Toph does think, however. She has to, because her difficulties require her to be creative to overcome them. Unlike most advanced benders, Toph figured out metal bending herself. And while it took the original bloodbender years in a cage to figure out her art, Toph did it in a matter of hours.

Well Gaara has been known to do stuff like...

• Spy on potential enemies ahead of time through a magic eyeball thingy so he can figure out their weaknesses.
• Turtle up inside a dome of hardened sand to give himself more time to prepare attacks, while using said eyeball thingy to keep track of enemies outside.
• Spread an invisibly-fine mist of sand around an area to act as a motion sensor against hidden enemies.
• Teleport away while leaving a clone of himself behind, which can turn into sand and trap enemies who strike it.
• Distract an enemy by talking to them, while secretly using his personal sand to do something else (like sending it underground to create a massive reserve of sand under their feet).
• Mix other substances into his sand (like water and gold dust) to change its properties to counter specific enemy techniques, sometimes keeping a layer of normal sand on the outside to catch his opponent by surprise.

Plus in Part II he seems to be acknowledged as a pretty awesome leader.

[Jayngfet]

Honestly, I was imaging this taking place in a more or less open field. Garra has significant amounts of sand in his gourd to start with, but takes time to prepare the terrain and turn it into a desert. Toph has plenty of earth to work with but we arent giving her every advantage on a plate by putting her in a foundry built inside a mountain. I may have to watch the garra/kimmimaru fight again to see about how long it took him to say, "Ok, time for a terrain change, I hereby declare this biome to be... desert!" And it was desert, and it was scary. I will agree toph has the mental edge, though too be fair, thats mainly because there has been no challenge to garra in any way shape or form till lee started committing egregious acts of violence to the sound barrier and having enough raw physical force to break through his basic shield. Up till then noone could do diddly squat against him in a fight. Because his defense is that strong, and his sand is a terrifyingly dangerous weapon.

Gaara doesn't get prep time if Toph doesn't. Additionally, most death battle rounds take place in reasonably neutral territory both can be reasonably at-home in where they have access to everything they need to fight to their fullest. So Toph is guaranteed to run across a decent amount of metal by default while Gaara isn't starting in the Sahara.

Gaara is terrifying, at baseline Naruto levels, where he was introduced as a rookie in a setting where any defensive abilities are reasonably rare. But he's not fighting another ninja, he's fighting someone used to facing off against earth shielded opponents and is capable of breaking through them as a matter of course. If at any point he's on the defensive it becomes a game he's not used to playing but his opponent is.

Well Gaara has been known to do stuff like...

• Spy on potential enemies ahead of time through a magic eyeball thingy so he can figure out their weaknesses.
• Turtle up inside a dome of hardened sand to give himself more time to prepare attacks, while using said eyeball thingy to keep track of enemies outside.
• Spread an invisibly-fine mist of sand around an area to act as a motion sensor against hidden enemies.
• Teleport away while leaving a clone of himself behind, which can turn into sand and trap enemies who strike it.
• Distract an enemy by talking to them, while secretly using his personal sand to do something else (like sending it underground to create a massive reserve of sand under their feet).
• Mix other substances into his sand (like water and gold dust) to change its properties to counter specific enemy techniques, sometimes keeping a layer of normal sand on the outside to catch his opponent by surprise.

Plus in Part II he seems to be acknowledged as a pretty awesome leader.

Which is nice, but useless in a death battle, which starts with the opponents just becoming aware of each other and at reasonable distance most of the time, and only having what they have on them or can acquire reasonably. He's not facing hidden enemies or someone ignorant to the properties of earth. He's facing an opponent who's at least as experienced as him with the physical properties of earth. Which is a factor only one of them is used to.

[Starbuck_II]

Later Toph can see sand, thus flying sand user is visible by Toph.

Second, no one has ever attempted to control G's sand so no one knows he has special control over it. Toph might be able.

[Prime32]

Later Toph can see sand, thus flying sand user is visible by Toph.

She can see vibrations transmitted through sand, and it's still kind of blurry - she has no way to tell what's happening on sand unconnected to her feet. Plus Gaara doesn't usually move while attacking, so even while on the ground it's much harder for Toph to tell what he's doing. He could easily sneak small amounts of airborne sand into Toph's clothes too quietly for her to hear, then use it to restrain her.

Second, no one has ever attempted to control G's sand so no one knows he has special control over it. Toph might be able.

Gaara has fought other people with the same powers as himself. They never try to control each others' sand. Plus Bloodbending shows that it's harder to bend things that are part of a living creature, and Gaara's personal sand is both part of a spirit and infused with his life force. And Toph hasn't invented Bonebending yet, so...

[Dire Moose]

I still want to see Godzilla vs. Cthulhu.

[Legato Endless]

As a character I much, MUCH prefer Toph (no offense Gaar).

The need for this disclaimer is a one of the most idiotic attributes of this subculture. How on earth did the nerdy sections of the internet ever come to the vaguely popular consensus that a character's might or lethality had any relation in the slightest to their quality as a character, or had any connection to the merits of the narrative the character was written in?

(this isn't meant as a direct commentary about the two characters here)

[Flickerdart]

Toph never learned to bend while immobile, so if Gaara can envelop her, it's game over. From what I recall, she's never been able to crush someone with Earth (though it IS a kids' show) or even hold them captive, unless the earth in question was already stone. Her only edge is metalbending, but Gaara is not a weapons user.

If the fight takes place in a sandy desert, Toph's done for.

[Dusk Eclipse]

It doesn't need to be a sandy desert... Gaara can make those on command (see his fight vs. kimimaro) if he can stall Toph for a few minutes at least, Toph is done for, simple as that.