Optional Gestalt/LA gestalting

[Crake]

A more up to date version of this variant can be found here.

Ok, so I've devised a rather nice (at least so far) system for optional gestalting, which also works nicely as a method for allowing higher levels of LA in higher powered games. It's only been playtested over the course of a single game so far, but I think it's been fairly well tested regarding most of it's use cases in said game.
It has since been playtested over several characters and campaigns, covering it's use as both low and high numbers of LA (+2 to +8), full class gestalt, combined LA and class gestalt, and RHD+LA combinations.

With this variant each player may, at their option, choose to gestalt either class levels, or any LA they happen to have (though I like to limit the LA to in game granted material, rather than allowing a player to begin play with exorbient LA that they will pay off on the side) by paying a cumulative 500xp per gestalt level (see table below). Their ECL is then calculated by summing their xp on both sides and rounding it down to the nearest level threshold of a normal character. This has also been provided in an easy to read table format below.

The progression is staggered, so a player does not go from 1//1 to 2//2, but rather to 2//1, then 2//2, and as a personal rule, I don't allow partial gestalting if a player chooses to gestalt class levels. A player may choose to begin gestalting at level 13 (as one of my players did), but he may not progress his main side until his gestalt side has caught up. This rule is obviously waived for LA.

As you can see, the numbers start to get a little high toward the end, with ECL 20 being hit at 17//16. While this does not quite result in dual 9s for any dual spellcasting progression, like typical level 20 dual progression builds, this is offset by a much broader set of benefits from having the ability to access two prestige classes.

This system does allow for a much higher level of LA than the normal one does, though it has a natural "buy off" as gestalted LA, slowly, as you gain levels, has less of an impact on your total XP, until it finally stops mattering. For example, a player with +6 LA (10,500xp invested into LA) has +1 ECL until level 11, where the LA ceases to increase the character's XP to the next level threshold. This allows players who gain templates such as lycanthropy or vampirism to explore these options without completely gimping their character with LA. By level 19, a vampire's +8LA would be completely offset, resulting in no increase in ECL, which, at that level, it would not be deserving, while still maintaining a hefty penalty at lower levels, where it is powerful. I also strongly urge DMs to use savage progressions for any templates that players may acquire over the course of the game, just to add granularity to it.

I haven't playtested this enough to be sure, but I've found that, while higher powered, this option opens up much more of the system to both players and DMs alike. As a litmus test, i've looked at this against a few creatures, their LAs and their CR. For example, a succubus, 6HD and 6LA, under this rule would be ECL 7, which just happens to be their CR. Hound Archons and Janni, similar popular (though likely hardly ever played) monstrous player races, while having 6HD and +5 LA, still result in ECL 7 (despite their CR4) and attain "LA"+0 once they hit level 8 (assuming they take no gestalt levels).

This system opens up many, previously crippling to play, monster races, for a much more fun and varied game, and I'd love to get more playtesting to occur to see if it's a viable houserule beyond just my game. If anyone has any questions or has any crippling flaws to point out, please do so, I'd be happy to reply.

Here are a few clarifying points about the system:

• All LA must be on the gestalt side
• Class gestalt comes in at the lowest available level on the gestalt side, with LA always on top
• Once a player begins class gestalting, he must have his main and gestalt side of equal level (adding up class and LA gestalt) before he may continue progressing his main side
• Works best with set HP per level, partial bab/saves, and no multiclassing penalties.

Through playtesting, I have also added the following rules to cover unforseen use cases:

• Characters gestalting may choose to withold selecting a feat when they gain class levels on their main side until their gestalt side has caught up. This is to allow for feats to be chosen as if the character was of equal level on both sides of his gestalt.

[Crake]

Figured I might make the whole thing a bit more clear with some tables, so here we go:

Gestalt XP Costs Level Cost Cumulative Cost 0 0 0 1 500 500 2 1,000 1,500 3 1,500 3,000 4 2,000 5,000 5 2,500 7,500 6 3,000 10,500 7 3,500 14,000 8 4,000 18,000 9 4,500 22,500 10 5,000 27,500 11 5,500 33,000 12 6,000 39,000 13 6,500 45,500 14 7,000 52,500 15 7,500 60,000 16 8,000 68,000 17 8,500 76,500 18 9,000 85,500 19 9,500 95,000 20 10,000 105,000

Gestalt ECL Changes Level Gestalt Level 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 1 +0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 2 +0 +0 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 3 +0 +0 +1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 4 +0 +0 +0 +1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 5 +0 +0 +0 +1 +1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 6 +0 +0 +0 +0 +1 +1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 7 +0 +0 +0 +0 +1 +1 +1 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 8 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +1 +1 +2 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 9 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +1 +1 +1 +2 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 10 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 11 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 12 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +3 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 13 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +2 +3 -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 14 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +1 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +3 +3 -- -- -- -- -- -- 15 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +2 +3 +3 -- -- -- -- -- 16 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +2 +3 +3 +3 -- -- -- -- 17 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +1 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +2 +3 +3 +4 -- -- -- 18 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +1 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +2 +3 +3 +3 +4 -- -- 19 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +2 +3 +3 +3 +4 +4 -- 20 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +0 +1 +1 +1 +1 +2 +2 +2 +3 +3 +3 +4 +4

[avr]

OK, so 1-2 levels of gestalt is all but cost-free. Many, perhaps most characters will have full BAB 1st level or else have 1st level monk abilities. Prestige classes will be easier to qualify for.

As always with gestalt, how do multiclassing penalties work? Or do you not use these?

Does the player choose which levels are gestalted, or is it always the earliest levels first? E.g. A barbarian 6 takes a single normal level in rogue, then takes a gestalt level. Can he take a full BAB class gestalt level to get BAB +7?

Ordinary gestalt is too complicated for my friends, I wouldn't start them on variants of it. It's interesting to play around with your ideas though.

[Crake]

OK, so 1-2 levels of gestalt is all but cost-free. Many, perhaps most characters will have full BAB 1st level or else have 1st level monk abilities. Prestige classes will be easier to qualify for.

As always with gestalt, how do multiclassing penalties work? Or do you not use these?

Does the player choose which levels are gestalted, or is it always the earliest levels first? E.g. A barbarian 6 takes a single normal level in rogue, then takes a gestalt level. Can he take a full BAB class gestalt level to get BAB +7?

Ordinary gestalt is too complicated for my friends, I wouldn't start them on variants of it. It's interesting to play around with your ideas though.

Earliest levels first, and no partial gestalting for classes. If you begin gestalting with classes, you must continue to gestalt until both sides are the same level, then progress in a staggered manner on your main then gestalt side. Players can choose to begin class gestalting at any time, but once they start, they cannot choose to opt out, barring a character rebuild where they get rid of all their class gestalt.

Partial gestalting with LA is fine, however (and this is where it gets a little convoluted, I must admit) if you have LA, and then gestalt classes, the LA remains on top, while all class levels come in at the bottom.

As for multiclassing penalties, I don't use them.

[ComaVision]

I like it. The penalties are felt without being detrimental. I think the biggest flaw is that it's prohibitively complex. I may suggest it to one of my players for a test if they exhibit interest in a gestalt character concept.

I would be interested to hear about how it affected the game in your play test. Did everyone feel they had to gestalt to compete?

EDIT: Was it complicated to adjust saves/HD/skills when the level 13 started into gestalt? I'm assuming you wouldn't use this with rolled hit points.

[Crake]

I like it. The penalties are felt without being detrimental. I think the biggest flaw is that it's prohibitively complex. I may suggest it to one of my players for a test if they exhibit interest in a gestalt character concept.

I would be interested to hear about how it affected the game in your play test. Did everyone feel they had to gestalt to compete?

EDIT: Was it complicated to adjust saves/HD/skills when the level 13 started into gestalt? I'm assuming you wouldn't use this with rolled hit points.

The saves/HD weren't too bad to calculate, although I was the one doing it. Skills are a bit of another matter though, because of the staggered progression, or if a player starts gestalting late. This was easily solved for the character in question due to the fact that he was a part psion, so had access to psychic reformation. That will be one of the rules I need to consider. I'm imagine just allowing a redistribution of a number of skill points at each gestalt level equal to the amount that would have been gained to include the gestalt class's skills, and any extra skillpoints it might get.

You're right, I don't use rolled hit points, Max at first level, then average +0.5.

As to whether people felt they needed to gestalt to compete, there were two casters in the group, one with 6 LA (half fiend half fey) and one with no LA, and a swordsage with +3LA, none of which chose to gestalt any class levels. While there's no ECL difference between the three that didn't gestalt class levels, the one with no LA is still actually ahead in XP, and typically is the first one to level up, so he feels rather content without any LA, with the swordsage not far behind, and the 6LA caster almost a full level behind. They all feel satisfied with their higher level of power vs the level 13 gestalted player's increase range of versatility.

The current game I'm running is entering it's twilight years now, and this system was devised halfway through it. My next game already has some players lined up, one of which would like to gestalt from the get go, so I'm eager to see how it works out in the early levels.