World Economics 101

[JohnDaBarr]

Almost every game/edition I seen has bad world-building info and advice for the economics department, where items and goods pricing is done wrong, because most guides only list item base price (time to build + recurses = item value) and then most GMs believe that the item price list is something carved on a golden plate and given directly from the Gods so I end up playing a game where everything from a grain of salt to the Toothpick of Godslaying +10 costs the same in every part of the world.

Since this clearly annoys me I started using the following calculation to determine value of goods and items when world-building: (resources+transport cost+protection rent+tax/levies) + time to build = item value. And also I started giving regions/large cities their resource and industry background that I usually determent by a random roll and then by adding terrain and climate modifiers. It doesn't require much work and usually produces a better world. Especially since abundance and/or scarcity of different items, goods and resources define the background, fluff and current situations of different regions/cities, and in many ways it is easier to build a place around this kind of a skeleton.


Usually at first players react ''Why is item X 3 times more expensive than in the book?'' and then they start connecting dots which can usually lead to a trading frenzy. This it self is not a problem since their success depends on their skill and luck so it is not a easy way to acquire wealth. Still in couple of campaigns players ended up being guild masters or merchant princes and that in its on way contributed to a better world immersion.

Anything else I can add or improve?
Anyone tried something similar? How did it go?

[drawingfreak]

Any kind of charts or table with modifiers you can design?

Also, my current campaign world has varying degrees of currency exchange between the nations. What might be 3gp in Nation A is 6gp in Nation B, typically written as gp(a) or gp(b).

[sktarq]

Improvement may be a "demand variance" variable. Basic your equation gives the base cost for that item in that city most of the time. But a run of fassion, increased raids or political tensions pulling in weapons, military gear, or even just the time of specialists who make both civilian and military gear could drive up prices. As could a bad seem in the local metal mine, a bumper crop driving down wheat etc.
Basically the DM looks at the situation and says what do the inhabitants want more or less of than normal? Toss in a modifier on appropriate goods and toss in a few random ones and away you go.

Actually a cultural demand issue also may be in play-a culture than values honey for its links to cultural foundation stories will pay more for it than one who is using it only as a sweetener and would be just as happy with molasses.

[JohnDaBarr]

Any kind of charts or table with modifiers you can design?

I don't have my notes and materials with me right now. But it's generally really easy, just divide goods/materials into three groups; raw goods, process good, finished goods/items. Then assigning them number and let the random number generator do its work, then you add modifiers for terrain and climate. This part can be done using common sense or you can create a table, which can be tricky a lot of work. Also somebody pointed out to me that I can use resource generator from games like Civ 3 and similar.

And finally things like political stability of the area should be taken into account but that falls in another department and usually it's not randomly generated, at least I don't. Still things like random modifiers for exceptionally bad weather or disease should be used.

[Octopusapult]

...Also somebody pointed out to me that I can use resource generator from games like Civ 3 and similar.

I was going to say this. I use a Civ 5 map editor to make all my maps. Usually though, I just remove the resources. But this could make things really interesting...

[drack]

Gotta GM fait to swat down those quick money schemes like wall of salt be it that there's plenty of salt already making it cheep, or that wall of salt-salt is gross. Similar gambits for other exploits, but as often as not the deterrent is making enemies of someone rich and powerful.

So as you've probably guessed I tend to stick with standard prices and use GM fait to balance it a bit. of course some goods can't be bought places or have limited supplies, but I do think your method's pretty cool. I wouldn't really attempt it but I love learning when other GMs take on more bookkeeping to make the game that much cooler. Then again I do run nations games form time to time where these scarcities and surpluses come into play more.

[JohnDaBarr]

Gotta GM fait to swat down those quick money schemes like wall of salt be it that there's plenty of salt already making it cheep, or that wall of salt-salt is gross. Similar gambits for other exploits, but as often as not the deterrent is making enemies of someone rich and powerful.

So as you've probably guessed I tend to stick with standard prices and use GM fait to balance it a bit. of course some goods can't be bought places or have limited supplies, but I do think your method's pretty cool. I wouldn't really attempt it but I love learning when other GMs take on more bookkeeping to make the game that much cooler. Then again I do run nations games form time to time where these scarcities and surpluses come into play more.

Hahaha
To be honest this entire endeavor started as a way to deal with Wall of Salt shenanigans. I allowed it, wizard spent a month casting the spell in an empty warehouse and they ended up getting only 1/5 of the salt original value because; low salt quality, no permits to sell, not member of a guild, didn't pay import tax and they sold it on the black market! The poor Rogue was furious because he spent every new skill point in the profession Merchant, so he said that now he will become one and I went along. I turns out that with couple of good garter information checks and couple of good profession checks and a decent roll on the random event dice they can make good profit. Of course this didn't allowed them to infinity create money because they where always just one or two dice rolls from losing money, but still divination spell ended up being good thing to have if you are in trading business. Anyway this turned out to be a great secondary quest material generator and the party had fun.

Also something like this doesn't need a lot of time to pull off and it generally discourage magical ad infinitum shenanigans because it offers an alternative that doesn't require spending valuable spell slots.

[drack]

Lolz, sounds like a blast man. Me, I tend towards a similar method just less crunchy. Of course my players last time this happened were considering selling fake gold to merchants and may well have ended up with a fat evil man after them with a whole castle of flying monkeys. (an epic game where the folks had a flying tower fortress to ride about in) Crunch helps advert players calling shenanigans, but in the end they work out about the same.

I should ask though, how do you end up with your list of items? I'd assume there would be more items in D&D then one might care to price.

[JohnDaBarr]

I should ask though, how do you end up with your list of items? I'd assume there would be more items in D&D then one might care to price.

Yeah there are, and when doing something like this you end up with even more... I didn't create a complete list it is just to much work at least for one person. I put items into groups like foodstuffs, minerals, textile, logging, woodworking, metalworking and similar. So you randomly set that Region C has foodstuffs, logging and metalworking and if this region is a place where your player will be then it is easy to create details out of the existing base. If the said region is inland and has continental climate then it doesn't produce bananas but wheat and potato, the wood is pine and they produce iron farming tools. As for things that don't have price in the books well I use common sense.

[drack]

Yup, that makes more sense.