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2015-01-31, 12:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
Last edited by YossarianLives; 2015-01-31 at 12:12 AM.
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2015-01-31, 12:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
Depends on the world im getting thrust into. If it's one I know about (Faerun for example) I could probably live out the rest of my days in relative comfort just by selling the identities of the majority of the lords of waterdeep. There's a ton of other info that you could sell to make a quick profit as well. If it was a brand new unknown world? I guess it would depend on what I was able to bring a long with me.
And patenting simple modern inventions.
Tools - wrenches, pliers, screws/screwdrivers
A simple spring/clamps/suspension
Simple improvements to fire arms like the cartridge
Buttons/zippers/Velcro
Sandwiches
Elevators
Modern irrigation techniques
Really there are just a plethora of simple things you could "invent" that would change a medievil type of fantasy world and make you a rich rich person.Last edited by Invader; 2015-01-31 at 01:02 AM.
"The icy cold fingers of reason have choked the life out of this threadand despite all logic it keeps squirming", nope, it's dead.
"Occasionally I'd just like someone to quote me in their signature"
-Invader
Epic threads with awesome revelations.
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2015-01-31, 12:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
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- Tharggy, on Tellene
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Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
First off i think i need to point out that most of us would have an Int of 12 or higher. I assume that most of us can do Algebra, which makes us quite well trained actually. Remember that Int represents average IQ and IQ is based off of common knowledge, if the magic world works on similar rules to ours (baring magic obviously) then we are well ahead of the curve. Or we all just have at least half a rank in a bunch of random knowledge skills. That may just be me though.
Honestly im fairly standard stat wise, though i think my Con may be higher than the average commoner, thank you modern medicine and good food. Also i am capable of using several medieval weapons, the bow springs to the forefront of my mind. Am i good with most of these? No, though i am a capable shot and am capable of using a sword without embarrassing myself, so i have several Weapon Proficiencies. Also i know how to make gunpowder (woo!!) so that may help if i can get to some resources. (crappy grenades? yes please.)
Would i survive? Possibly, depends where i get dropped and with what. I can hunt, so i really just need a knife and i can finagle my way for a bit. I will be REALLY cranky when i finally make it to civilization. Hopefully i could then get some help, maybe find a mage that can cast comprehend languages and tongues if they cant understand me. After that i may try to learn magic, or make a gun.....
Also this. If i get dropped into KoK i can get by by simply telling people where specific relics are, as i would know where multiple named weapons are as well as the cause of several problems. Its a bit harder in KoK than in other settings as its basically a giant sandbox, so there's less "plot" things to do.Last edited by Blackhawk748; 2015-01-31 at 12:58 AM.
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2015-01-31, 04:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Sweden
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Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
I would suggest being VERY careful about trying to create an industrial revolution, especially if you're anywhere near a bunch of mages. Mages are the ultimate craftsman guild; they have skills that commoners could never master, and this mystery gives them power and influence. Why would they want an industrial revolution? These things bridge the gap between uneducated pesants and craftsmen skilled in the art of telling the laws of physics to gtfo.
Also, neither the clerics or druids are likely to look kindly on such a thing. The industrial revolution can completely wreck the environment, and promote a more secular lifestyle. Even the gods of good might have doubts about promoting something that could end up killing them. As far as survival strategies go, I would suggest one that is less likely to piss off all the T1 classes.
After some more thinking, I believe I would try to find some druids and learn from them. Druid has the advantage that you have far less micro management than clerics (no god looking over your shoulder) and you are less dependant on equipment (spell books and a place to research) than wizards. You are also far more likely to survive the first few scary levels, and you depend less on being able to join the right order (PRC) at the right time in order to reach peak power. You're slightly less awesome than a batman wizard, but honestly, I can deal with "just" being in the top 1%.
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2015-01-31, 06:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality
2) Every single canon character in that story is out of character more often than not. And look at that, they are always proven wrong ultimately while the OC is proven right.
3) The entire setting has either been considerably altered or *someone* didn't do their research. Magical knowledge isn't being lost for example - new magic is continually being researched and developed. The wizarding wolrd isn't a small, regressing community: it has over thirty million members worldwide and that is just the wizards. Partial transformations are not an impossibility a new merlin is needed to discover - they're both commonplace and the first thing every student accomplishes in their first transfiguration lesson. A wizard's magic doesn't "run out". Magic and advanced technology are incompatible in the Potterverse as enough magic messes with machines, especially electrical ones.
That story fails in both the Potterverse and Science components - big time. It's more wish-fulfilment than anything else. Wouldn't you want not only to enter a world of magic - but also one who proves your every preconception and where you're the only one who understands how magic works, even better than centuries-old wizards?
If all you have is a hammer, don't be lazy; be a blacksmith and start making more stuff.
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2015-01-31, 10:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Neither here nor there
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Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
Hence why I'm not looking for one that's evil and I'm not (at least initially) trying to make magic more common knowledge, just physical science.
However, a guild that's good-aligned or at the very least motivated by enlightened self-interest can enjoy being the industrialists in the Industrial Revolution. If you'll recall your history, it worked out pretty well for the captains of industry. Not only will they enjoy the fruits of the Industrial Revolution, more people being intelligent and wealthy means they'll have better choice of recruits and a broader customer base.
The environmental reason is why I want to enlist the aid of the druids, actually - to not wreck the environment. If you find a circle who isn't stupid about "Hur, Nature versus Civilization, hurr!", then you can get them to help you repair and alleviate damage done to the environment by industrial processes.
I'm not so sure an Industrial Revolution and general scientific enlightenment would result in people abandoning gods who are demonstrably active in their lives. The real world doesn't have people running around casting cure light wounds and remove disease, after all. If anything, the good-aligned temples would support me on account of my mission being improving the wellbeing of the common man.
I have only a middling Wisdom bonus (I mostly make it on perceptiveness and stubbornness, not so much enlightenment); it would be sub-optimal for me to try picking up a divine casting class. I'm less concerned about the first few levels on account of my military experience; I'd be multi-classing over into Wizard from some martial class (Fighter, most likely; I suck at stealth and am kinda average at survival, although Martial Rogue would be a pretty decent option as well given the variety of my skills).My latest homebrew: Majokko base class and Spellcaster Dilettante feats for D&D 3.5 and Races as Classes for PTU.
Currently Playing
Raiatari Eikibe - Ghostfoot's RHOD Righteous Resistance
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2015-01-31, 10:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
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2015-01-31, 10:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2013
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2015-01-31, 10:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Neither here nor there
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Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
My latest homebrew: Majokko base class and Spellcaster Dilettante feats for D&D 3.5 and Races as Classes for PTU.
Currently Playing
Raiatari Eikibe - Ghostfoot's RHOD Righteous Resistance
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2015-01-31, 11:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2013
Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
I don't believe that an actual magical world would have a DM-like figure controlling it.
Because of this, I would train in spellcraft start developing as many custom spells as I can in the search of finding weak spells that would normally never exist for the sake of game balance but would totally work in an actual, logical setting.
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2015-01-31, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
Which makes me wonder- how exactly would you 'choose' classes if you lived in a magic world? How do I pick up a fighter, or wizard, or thief class? How do I choose which Feats, Professions, Skills, and Spells I learn? What about PrCs? How did my character get those stuff as soon as she met the requirements?
Last edited by goto124; 2015-01-31 at 11:30 AM.
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2015-01-31, 02:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2014
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- California
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Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
Am I the only one who would look for Wizards who could help me get back home? I have friends and family here, the climate is nice, there are no rampaging orc hordes, and I have Wi-Fi.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
Handbooks: The Warlockopedia | The Warmagepedia (WIP) | Tier List (2019 Update)
Spreadsheets: Spellcasting classes | Deities | Useful items
Homebrew: Gestalt Theurge | Fighter and Monk fixes | Warlock stuff | Houserules and quick fixes
Original Fiction: The Wizard's Familiar
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2015-01-31, 02:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
I mean, if I were to start with a level, I would probably take a level in Cleric and grab Versatile spellcaster and DMM Persist (I have flaws). I'd have a few more HP from... DIVINE PROVIDENCE... or something to help me through my first level. Then I'd cheese my way into Mystic Theurge with a Wizard level and work as a craftsmans healer.
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2015-01-31, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
I would train in...
1) One skill rank is equivalent to learning a foreign language. Just to have a benchmark on how hard it is to train stuff.
2) Your first level in most PC classes requires years of training.Hiring someone competent to train you requires several GP per day even for a minimum-level teacher. 5 years of training as a wizard would cost of 1.000 GP for tuition.
3) 1.000 GP is twenty pounds of gold, or $40.000. It is also the equivalent of 20.000 ladders, or 2.000 10' poles. Just finding that many ladders or selling that many poles is going to take years - you can't expect to make more than 20 thefts/purchases per day or sell to more than 5-6 customers for a single item only adventurers use.
4) This isn't the modern era of machine tools - everything is handcrafted. By the rules, you can only expect to finish 5-10 very simple items (such as wooden spoons) per day, or a single simple item such as a 10' pole. By realistic crafting, you might take even longer.
5) Gaining a level requires defeating around 13 challenges, ranging from CR-2 to CR+5 based on the encounter tables. You sure you want to risk injury and/or death a dozen times over for that increase in power? Especially without appropriate challenges ensured by a DM?
Having fought an enraged cat when helping my mother the vet, I gotta tell you; fighting inappropriate encounters such as a 16-pound cat that insists he doesn't need no stinky vaccine sucks big time.
If all you have is a hammer, don't be lazy; be a blacksmith and start making more stuff.
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2015-01-31, 04:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
"The icy cold fingers of reason have choked the life out of this threadand despite all logic it keeps squirming", nope, it's dead.
"Occasionally I'd just like someone to quote me in their signature"
-Invader
Epic threads with awesome revelations.
Spoiler
Awesome Avatar by Kymme!
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2015-01-31, 04:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2014
Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
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2015-01-31, 05:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2013
Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
The fic isn't about how the muggle world would change Rowling's HP world (such a misconception would tend to create a negative opinion regardless of whether that opinion was accurate or not). So instead I will comment on the topic at hand.
I don't think we should assume that people in a D&D world choose their class advancement with anywhere enough ease that it would take for us to assume our own class advancement. I remain convinced that it is more plausible to find and assist and existent caster than it is to claim we would be a caster.
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2015-01-31, 05:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
The one thing a character from our world would have major advantage over people in the DnD world is knowledge of DnD. Seriously, just how many DnD trivia require astronomical knowledge checks in-game but every player can easily learn by reading the books?
Just writing and selling our knowledge of DnD cosmology would be a major source of income in interested circles.
If all you have is a hammer, don't be lazy; be a blacksmith and start making more stuff.
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2015-01-31, 05:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2009
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Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
Patent?
Even if patent law exists at all, you'll probably find that only members in good standing of the guild of engineers would have anything even vaguely resembling a right to patent things, and even then, that right would only extend to the reach of that guild. The idea of government-enforced intellectual property laws isn't a thing in most fantasy settings.
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2015-01-31, 08:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
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Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
In a game setting maybe but we're talking about a real world situation so it's perfectly reasonable to think individual kingdoms at least would have them. Patents in our world go back over 500 years so its it like they're a modern invention either.
As for the engineer guild, you don't think they'd be bending over backwards to recruit someone who has so many amazing inventions? You'd have your pick of which craftsmans guild you'd want to join, though it'd probably be easier and way more profitable to start your own."The icy cold fingers of reason have choked the life out of this threadand despite all logic it keeps squirming", nope, it's dead.
"Occasionally I'd just like someone to quote me in their signature"
-Invader
Epic threads with awesome revelations.
Spoiler
Awesome Avatar by Kymme!
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2015-01-31, 09:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
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- Sovereign State of Denial
Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
Become a wizard, optimize the hell out of it, maybe make a (well-written) deal with a devil, proceed to control the world, become a LE Lich, and eventually challenge Vecna.
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2015-01-31, 09:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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- Neither here nor there
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Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
My latest homebrew: Majokko base class and Spellcaster Dilettante feats for D&D 3.5 and Races as Classes for PTU.
Currently Playing
Raiatari Eikibe - Ghostfoot's RHOD Righteous Resistance
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2015-01-31, 10:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2013
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2015-01-31, 11:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
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Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
1) "Pazuzu Pazuzu Pazuzu" (Or just abuse BoVD sacrifice rules)
2) Wish for a Ring of Three Wishes
3) Go to Step 2
4) ???
5) Take over the world!
Alternatively,
1) Artificer
2) Traps!
3) More traps!
4) Seriously, this is way too many traps!
5) Probably destroy the world in a grey goo scenario
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2015-02-01, 01:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
We would do pretty well.
We all have a huge advantage over people in fantasy books, or even just the past. We have exposure. As Oliver Wendell Holmes said, "One's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions." Now I had to google to see who said that, but the text of the quote I remembered on my own; and more importantly, the idea of it you already heard of.
You don't have to understand the scientific method. The mere knowledge that such a thing can exist is a huge step forward. You have watched TV since you were old enough to walk. You have been exposed to more ideas, situations, cultures, technologies, and philosophies than most ancient geniuses had in their lifetimes. You already know that the stars are suns, like ours; that the natural force that keeps them in orbit is the same thing that makes apples fall; that lightspeed cannot normally be exceeded; but even more importantly, you know that democracy is possible, money doesn't have to be backed by gold, women are essentially equal to men, and so on. The mere knowledge that the rich are not genetically superior to the poor is so explosive it would have gotten you killed a few hundred years ago.
When it comes to combat, you may already know that gunpowder is not that hard to make and that spinning the bullet (rifling) makes it more accurate. Those two ideas alone end the reign of knights. Even D&D knights, who can take several longsword blows before dying - the power of even a moderately advanced black-powder design (say the Civil War era Sharps .50) will drop a freaking buffalo in one shot. Go look up how many hit die a buffalo has. And guns do it at longer ranges than magic; and more to the point, you've seen a WWII movie. You know how combat is supposed to look with guns and artillery and flying strike forces.
It's not just the technological knowledge you need. You can't join a Celtic tribe and start a factory. You need cultural knowledge; you need to know how to share the rewards and labor of the factory in a way that will make everyone buy into it. And you have that knowledge, even if you don't know it, because you've seen it done your whole life.
You have the accumulated wealth of 7,000,000,000 people's stories and 400 years of the Scientific Revolution. The stuff you learned from Bill Nye the Science Guy shows would make Issac Newton green with envy. Yes, translating it into actual practice would be hard; but the fact is you have Knowledge: Technological Culture at 10 skill ranks. And it's a class exclusive skill.
If this is a topic that interests you, and you find my take on it intriguing, then you might enjoy a new fantasy series called "Sword of the Bright Lady." Which is about a mechanical engineer who goes to a world with magic, and classes, and levels. There's a link in my sig.
(Edit: you might also want to check out Joel Rosenberg's "Guardians of the Flame" series)Last edited by Yahzi; 2015-02-01 at 02:00 AM.
www.WorldOfPrime.com and Sword of the Bright Lady (Flintlock Fantasy!)
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2015-02-01, 02:52 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2010
Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
I'd say that most people would be slow-starters in such an environment. Here's the thing - the magic systems we're so used to manipulating come with huge sets of information that is given directly to us as players as 'the ground truth of the world'. We know that 5ft squares are an important concept, the how-and-why of stats versus derived quantities versus spell slots, the idea of damage, saves, status effects, etc. And these aren't just abstractions for dealing with something complex; when we have the sort of TO discussion which leads to Tippyverse, the standard of the discussion is to take those things as absolutely and literally true. Part of the advantage we have is that the universe of any tabletop game has to be something which is well-suited to being evaluated by the brains of the humans at the table.
On the other hand, any sort of system that underlies a functioning universe is simultaneously not constrained by that, and also is likely to be constrained by a ton of other things which in a tabletop game we can ignore because the humans at the table smooth over the inconsistencies. On top of that, many of the rules of tabletop games are aimed towards making gameplay fun, making the players happy, etc. If I say e.g. "even a microgram of this substance kills you on skin contact with no defense" most people here would have the intuition: that isn't how D&D 3.5 works, I don't think thats a real thing! It feels unfair or broken in a gameplay sense, but a universe which is not a game has no particular bias towards 'fairness' or 'balance' (through the anthropic principle you can maybe make an argument for macroscale stability, but not for balance or fairness)
So, if you took a career scientist with no exposure to D&D or fantasy literature and put them in a magical world, they'd probably have a bit of an advantage due to having a novel view on things and so having a chance to see things that others have missed (thats not to say that a rational approach would always help them if, e.g., magic is of the sort that is granted as favors to people by irrational entities rather than a built-in law of the universe). But if you took a similar scientist but one who has exposure to D&D and fantasy literature biases and put them in a magical world, I think it's likely that they'd come in with a bunch of assumptions that would on average be much more likely to hinder them than to help them.
I see this a lot with players who are very experienced with one system going to another, especially if there are superficial similarities. They import assumptions from the systems they are familiar with, and often that can make them inattentive and less flexible when things differ. Even in the above post for example, there's the implicit assumption that 'my guns can drop a buffalo in one shot, so if I make guns in another world they will do so as well.' But there are rules for guns in D&D, and they can't drop a buffalo in one shot. And that's just going to D&D, not some other universe with its own not-ours, not-D&D laws.Last edited by NichG; 2015-02-01 at 02:54 AM.
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2015-02-01, 03:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2006
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Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
Actually, hunting is impossible in D&D, because no missile weapon kills a deer in one shot. A heavy crossbow does 1d10; a deer has on average 15 hps. So either the D&D world has radically different physics, or all hunters are really Thieves who can sneak to within 30 ft. I vote for the other out, which is hunting has to be modeled somehow and any weapon that kills a 5HD animal can kill a 5HD human.
That said, technology does one thing magic doesn't do: scale. If you manage to make a single gun, you can make a hundred. It's just time, effort, and materials. The same is not true of magic items, whose manufacture consumes something intangible (in D&D it's XP but in every fantasy system it's something; there's a reason no fantasy worlds have assembly line magic item production).
Your comments about bad assumptions are good, and I agree they would be slow to start (and might well die before they got their head around the new rules), but I think people tend to overlook just how much social technology we all have incorporated into our mental frameworks.www.WorldOfPrime.com and Sword of the Bright Lady (Flintlock Fantasy!)
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2015-02-01, 03:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2014
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2015-02-01, 06:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
Right, you're making a conclusion based on 'what sounds reasonable'. But if we're talking about some sort of universe derived from a different underlying physics, it doesn't really care about what you as a human feel is reasonable. If biochemistry were a little less efficient, it might very well be that hunting and eating other animals would be impossible to beat break-even above some scale without technological intervention (e.g. you'd be using the animal meat to harvest energy from a cooking fire, rather than using the meat itself for energy). Things like that make the world very different from our world, but they aren't excluded either.
In a D&D universe, perhaps everything is so filled with 'positive energy' that hunting as we know it actually is simply impossible. You can't one-shot an animal with a weapon, so you absolutely must use a snare that holds it in place before you can kill it.
That said, technology does one thing magic doesn't do: scale. If you manage to make a single gun, you can make a hundred. It's just time, effort, and materials. The same is not true of magic items, whose manufacture consumes something intangible (in D&D it's XP but in every fantasy system it's something; there's a reason no fantasy worlds have assembly line magic item production).
Your comments about bad assumptions are good, and I agree they would be slow to start (and might well die before they got their head around the new rules), but I think people tend to overlook just how much social technology we all have incorporated into our mental frameworks.
So it's not just about having the better ideas, its also about knowing how to manipulate the situation into one that really shows the advantage of those ideas to the extent that they catch on. And getting into a position where you can exert that influence. And the modern skills we have for doing that can actually work against us in the context of a different culture, which is structured to have a different kind of internal advancement. For example, imagine if you're thrown into a fantasy China where the worth of a scholar was measured by their ability to memorize and quote from historical literature (which isn't an uncommon trope).
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2015-02-01, 06:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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Re: What would happen if one of us actually got into a world with magic?
You already know that the stars are suns, like ours;
that the natural force that keeps them in orbit is the same thing that makes apples fall
that lightspeed cannot normally be exceeded;
you know that democracy is possible
money doesn't have to be backed by gold
women are essentially equal to men
The mere knowledge that the rich are not genetically superior to the poor
will drop a freaking buffalo in one shot.
You know how combat is supposed to look with guns and artillery and flying strike forces.
If all you have is a hammer, don't be lazy; be a blacksmith and start making more stuff.