Let's Make This [Digimon RP] You never know till you've tried

[Rater202]

Who suggested children and partners drawing from the same pool? I dislike that idea. I think we should stick with the human and digimon having separate pools of experience.

Oh no, the Digimental of Destiny and Mega-Equivalent Gold Rapidmon is Canon, it's just the actual movie and the events depicted there in that's none Cannon.

[Rakaydos]

Who suggested children and partners drawing from the same pool? I dislike that idea. I think we should stick with the human and digimon having separate pools of experience.

I did, based on examples of late-joiners from Tamers, the one series I'm familiar with. What is your reasoning for sticking to PokeRP's system?

[vasharanpaladin]

Who suggested children and partners drawing from the same pool? I dislike that idea. I think we should stick with the human and digimon having separate pools of experience.

That would be Rakaydos, with whom I was discussing~

Oh no, the Digimental of Destiny and Mega-Equivalent Gold Rapidmon is Canon, it's just the actual movie and the events depicted there in that's none Cannon.

Right, so take that as "the entire counterpoint is based on a non-canon movie."

I did, based on examples of late-joiners from Tamers, the one series I'm familiar with. What is your reasoning for sticking to PokeRP's system?

Presumably the same as mine, that it makes it easier for multi-Digimon archetypes to be slotted in.

[Blackhawk748]

One, intentional Engrish is not funny. It's Keramon->Chrysalimon->Infermon->Diablomon.

Two, that would be the board telling you not to eat fish sticks.



Counterpoint, again: The given example has two Digimon, one of which was sufficient to maul a party of seven. Including the other one, which proved sufficient to bring down the first alongside only one of the other six when given a suitable upgrade.

Of course, as Rater pointed out, GoldRapidmon is non-canon, but still.

Best to wait and do as Rater suggests, using it for a DigiXros archetype. Still going to be better to focus on one of them (read: Shoutmon) and use the rest of your pack as battery packs, though...

Honestly i just thought they mistakenly stuck a double R there instead of an L, i dont know japanese so for all i knew that could be a normal screw up. So apologies if i offended.

Also i second the Xross achetype, as we have more material to work with there.

Edit: On the XP discussion i am largely neutral as both have solid cases for them

[Rakaydos]

I dont know Xross, but it sounds like digivolving there is mainly X+Y=Z?

If we scale digivolving right, we might be able to make it better to merge 2 equal power digimon than to merge 1 really weak and 1 really strong, even given equal points.

[Rater202]

We should focus on a multi partner/digixros archetype once we've got the base, Jogress, and Hybrid evolution rules

Digixros isn't evolution at all, and the Digimon in that season didn't even have levels.

Evolution was more like it was in pokemon, once a species reaches a certain age, it assumes a more powerful form, except when Hyper Evolving, where it temporarily assumed an older and more powerful form

[vasharanpaladin]

I dont know Xross, but it sounds like digivolving there is mainly X+Y=Z?

If we scale digivolving right, we might be able to make it better to merge 2 equal power digimon than to merge 1 really weak and 1 really strong, even given equal points.

Jogress is the merging of two Digimon of equal power (read: two different players) to create a stronger Digimon with aspects of both.

DigiXros is one or more Digimon merging with a single strong Digimon (read: one player with more than one partner) to make that Digimon stronger.

A Jogressed Digimon should have the same action economy as two Digimon, but is more fragile than two Digimon of the same rank would be.

A DigiXros allows multiple Digimon to take part in the same fight, without breaking action economy for the player using it.

[Blackhawk748]

We should focus on a multi partner/digixros archetype once we've got the base, Jogress, and Hybrid evolution rules

Agreed, and i love how we keep agreeing to push certain things off lol

[Shadowz1797]

Blackhawk btw if you don't want to give a google account that's cool, just sometime write in here a post i can copy paste about the combat system.

[Blackhawk748]

Blackhawk btw if you don't want to give a google account that's cool, just sometime write in here a post i can copy paste about the combat system.

Ok, ill bring it all together when i get the rest of it, as ive got about half or so right now.

[Rakaydos]

Agreed, and i love how we keep agreeing to push certain things off lol

Well, put off until we have the basics in place. One of the reasons they keep getting brought up is because they relate to some of the basic systems- IE, Single vs Split XP relating to specific examples.

Not having M&M, I cant really help much under the hood, but like Rater, I'm interested in keeping development moving.

[Blackhawk748]

Well, put off until we have the basics in place. One of the reasons they keep getting brought up is because they relate to some of the basic systems- IE, Single vs Split XP relating to specific examples.

Not having M&M, I cant really help much under the hood, but like Rater, I'm interested in keeping development moving.

Honestly combat is the simplest part of M&M mechanics, and im still trying to work on how to do special attacks like Nova Blast, Rapid Fire etc. Im planning to just loot from M&M but im not sure how many points they should have for powers at what level.

[Almarck]

We should really make a priorty list so that people know what's needs doing first.


Priorities:
Tamers
Evolution
Combat




On-Hold:
Multiple Digimon
Merging
Humans-as-Digimon
Solo Digimon (no Tamers)


Hm. Shadow, mind making us a Spreadsheet?
While admitedly, I'm the guy with the least experience in M&M, I think I can put my skills as an organizer to some good use.

[Blackhawk748]

Priorities:
Tamers
Evolution
Combat




On-Hold:
Multiple Digimon
Merging
Humans-as-Digimon
Solo Digimon (no Tamers)

I agree here, honestly i may need a few example talents to help work on combat, which i will be happy to help on

Edit: as a working concept, im gonna see how many points it takes to have 2 attacks at maximum level (for your rank obviously) as most digimon seem to have 2. If they want some other abilities they are gonna have to sacrifice a bit of offensive power to do so, but hey flying is worth it.

[Rater202]

I figure that Merging and Humans as Digimon should fall under evolution, but one method of merginf and Spirit Evolution/Bio-Hybrid Evolution are gonne be restricted to a specific archetype, so that can be held off for a bit.

[Rakaydos]

This is my working model:

Baby/In-Training=1
Child/Rookie=2-5
Adult/Champion=6-10
Perfect/Ultimate=11-15
Ultimate/Mega=16-20

My thought was to have a single fixed power level per ranking- IE: Baby 1, Child 3, Adult 5, Perfect 9, Mega 17, but with the possibility to buy modifiers for specific digimon.

[Blackhawk748]

My thought was to have a single fixed power level per ranking- IE: Baby 1, Child 3, Adult 5, Perfect 9, Mega 17, but with the possibility to buy modifiers for specific digimon.

See that doesnt really work with M&M, cuz what do you do with the intervening numbers? Also as we all know not all Adult Digimon are equally powerful.

Though i do get where you coming from, but if we do it that way it gets very hard for an Adult to fight a Perfect, even though it has happened before

[vasharanpaladin]

See that doesnt really work with M&M, cuz what do you do with the intervening numbers? Also as we all know not all Adult Digimon are equally powerful

My suggestion: Grab the most recent version of Pokémon Tabletop United, and base the system on that. This gives you a base at least tangentially similar to the Digimon World games. Grab the resolution mechanics and XP progression off that, and then we can fix the rest once we have our ill-gotten core system.

[Rater202]

I kinda figured that Evolution would be tied to talents somehow, which makes it easier to balance diferant Archetypes by giving them slower or faster rates of evolution.

I'm not married to the concept though.

[Blackhawk748]

My suggestion: Grab the most recent version of Pokémon Tabletop United, and base the system on that. This gives you a base at least tangentially similar to the Digimon World games. Grab the resolution mechanics and XP progression off that, and then we can fix the rest once we have our ill-gotten core system.

PTU is basically, Roll a D20 beat a number. The Accuracy Check, is generally pretty low, and its used only for hitting things with attacks. The XP system is good for swiping though.

The reason im against using their Combat system is 1) it uses HP, which doesnt seem to fit to me and 2) Pokemon has a long, long list of general attacks, whereas each Digimon has their own.

I kinda figured that Evolution would be tied to talents somehow, which makes it easier to balance diferant Archetypes by giving them slower or faster rates of evolution.

I'm not married to the concept though.

I believe this to be the simplest solution.

[vasharanpaladin]

PTU is basically, Roll a D20 beat a number. The Accuracy Check, is generally pretty low, and its used only for hitting things with attacks. The XP system is good for swiping though.

The reason im against using their Combat system is 1) it uses HP, which doesnt seem to fit to me and 2) Pokemon has a long, long list of general attacks, whereas each Digimon has their own.

"Health levels" and "soft damage" and whatever the hell else is used in tabletops are even less fitting. Also, PTU tracks injuries, which do have effects beyond the cosmetic. Remember: Digimon are digital.

The Accuracy Check can get as high as 18 for certain moves (Dynamic Punch, Zap Cannon, Inferno), after the target's evasion is factored in.

And as for the "list of attacks" complaint, that's where the term "cherry picking" applies. You have your core resolution mechanic, you have your skill mechanic, you have your XP mechanic. You have a general attack (Struggle) that everyone has access to. And you have a template for making more attacks on an individual level.

I believe this to be the simplest solution.

No, it's the opposite of simple. A different rate of growth does nothing with regard to game balance and only frustrates players who now have to remember yet another set of rules.

[Rater202]

If we do the WH4K thing and have toal XP earned detemine Rank, then you could just make a "Evolve to X level" Extensio, and then assign it to diferant ranks based on the Archetype of the Child partner.

Chosen Children with the Crest Bear Proesion might be able to reach the Perfect Level at rank... 4, while most Archetypes would get it at five, and the Digimental Wielder would get it at 6.

Then we build off of that-One of the Tamer Progressions unique Extensions is "Matrix Evolution" With the Prerequisites that their Human Rank is... Let's say The Average rank at which a Digimon could reach mega is 15ish, If the Tamer's rank and the Mon's rank are both 15 and the mon can't already reach Mega, then yo gain the ability to Biomerge, but if the Tamer takes that Extension then the Mon can't ever take the "Mega Digivolve" Extension, and we can work out the mechanics of biomerge later.

I'm not sure weather the spirit/Bio-Hybrid Talents for form assumption should be on the Human side or the Digimon side when it comes to forms.

[Rakaydos]

If the OP had wanted PokeRP for his digimon game, he could have played Digimon with the PokeRP.

Building the system ourselves is more difficult, but it lets us make the system fit the shows better.

[Blackhawk748]

No, it's the opposite of simple. A different rate of growth does nothing with regard to game balance and only frustrates players who now have to remember yet another set of rules.

I think me and you are picturing this differently, im picturing this like Dark Heresy, each Archetype has its own progression, but all of them have access to the same stuff (barring several very specific things)

As for the "Health levels" thing, M&M doesnt have those, its literally a save every time an attack gets through and if you fail you take a -1 to further test, eventually you will fail by enough that you are knocked unconscious, which i feel fits Digimon.

Edit: Mostly ninjad

[vasharanpaladin]

If the OP had wanted PokeRP for his digimon game, he could have played Digimon with the PokeRP.

Once again, not listening.

I am not saying "build the game off Pokémon Tabletop."

I am saying "filch from Pokémon Tabletop."

We have a system for modelling 'mons RPG's already. The core of that system is suitable, that does not mean we have to bring all the periphery with it.

We have a system for modelling "near-useless human and actual fighting entity as separate character parts" as well. The core of this system is based in a W40RPG, and would be suitable for this as well.

Regardless of what we choose to start with we will have to work. Some options just involve less work than others.

[Rater202]

I think me and you are picturing this differently, im picturing this like Dark Heresy, each Archetype has its own progression, but all of them have access to the same stuff (barring several very specific things)

Basically this.

You've got several Human Talent Tress and Several Digimon Talent Trees.

Then you get one or two trees for each Archetype and an other Tree for each specific progression path for humans.

And then some Talent Trees for the Digimon are either restricted to or much easier to get for certain combinations of Family or Attribute.

A Hypothetical Talent that let a Digimon Autokill a Mon on a level two or more below it would probably be at the highest ranks.

The Digivolving Talents would be unlocked at different Ranks based on Archetype of the Human, and some Archetypes or progression within the archetype might have alternate options.

[Shadowz1797]

"Step away for dinner and prepare to be bombarded with posts to read through" should be the official motto of our project now. Almarck did you mean a spread sheet of area priority and their completion status?

[Blackhawk748]

Once again, not listening.

I am not saying "build the game off Pokémon Tabletop."

I am saying "filch from Pokémon Tabletop."

We have a system for modelling 'mons RPG's already. The core of that system is suitable, that does not mean we have to bring all the periphery with it.

We have a system for modelling "near-useless human and actual fighting entity as separate character parts" as well. The core of this system is based in a W40RPG, and would be suitable for this as well.

Regardless of what we choose to start with we will have to work. Some options just involve less work than others.

Im not saying we cant loot from, please do. Im just saying i dont think its combat system is for Digimon, also M&M is the only system ive seen that seems to be capable of doing Giant Monster fights with any amount of simplicity, which Digimon turns into at certain points.

[Rater202]

Not really.

Only VenomVamdemon is Kaju Scale. Most of the really big ones are either too big(Ceresmon or Eldarodomon) to be Kaiju or are only 50ish feet tall.

[Blackhawk748]

Not really.

Only VenomVamdemon is Kaju Scale. Most of the really big ones are either too big(Ceresmon or Eldarodomon) to be Kaiju or are only 50ish feet tall.

Ok, they're not true Kaiju, but MetalGreymon is still freakin huge as are several others, and as i said M&M deals with that kind of combat pretty well, mainly because its a Gridless system as well as size not being as massive a modifier as it is in other d20