Barbarian/Fighter Build Question

[RaynorReynolds]

Alright. You guys helped me make up my mind with my feat quandary a couple weeks ago so I'm back with another questions. Here is the build so far.

Barbarian 4
HP: 49

Strength	16
Dexterity	15
Constitution	16
Intelligence	8
Wisdom	12
Charisma	10

Feats:
Polearm Master
Sentinel

I am torn with how to proceed. I wanted to initially MC into fighter and rogue, but the defensive bonuses from the rogue just don't seem worth the levels I would be giving up in fighter. I am down to debating between Barbarian 4/Fighter 16 or Barbarian 5/Fighter 15.

Fighter 16 would give me 6 more ASI's. That would be enough to get Dex & Con to 20, grab the Resilient (Dex) feat, and pick up GWM. Or I could sacrifice one ASI that would have gone into dex and pick up Extra Attack 5 levels earlier by going to Barb 5/Fighter 15. The goal with this build is to go into at least 11 levels into Fighter for Extra Attack (2). I will be going down the Battle Master archetype.

[Arkhios]

Extra Attack is a very important milestone for martial classes and I can almost assure you that you'll regret if you didn't get it at 5th level. If you were to go with fighter 16, you should've gone fighter earlier. If you want some perspective, look how much experience points you need for ninth level.

[Specter]

Yep, you're gonna have to decide between wasting Fighter 5 if you already take Barbarian 5, or waiting until level 9 for Extra Attack. I'd avoid that dilemma and go Barbarian 6/Rogue 14.

[Sigreid]

In my opinion, fighter and barbarian both tread too much of the same road to make a good multi-class unless you're doing just 2 levels to get either reckless attack or action surge.

On the other hand, pair either one with rogue and you get multiple chances at your sneak attack dice, expertise (probably in athletics for grappling), a slew of bonus action options and if you go high enough the ability to cut the damage of on attack per round in half (a pretty serious kick to tanking). On top of that, if you go fighter/rogue, you will wind up with as many or more ASI as anyone else in the group, depending on where you do your break points.

[SmokingSkull]

The way I did it was I stayed Fighter until level 6 for both Extra Attack and the second ASI/Feat (Seems you went Variant Human for your char if I'm correct) meaning if you do that you can get a third feat, or bump something statwise. Then I went Barbarian for three levels to get all the goodies plus the defining rage feature of Totem Warrior. Then I went back to Fighter and have been levelling that since, and ime it is very effective at what it does.

[RaynorReynolds]

Yep, you're gonna have to decide between wasting Fighter 5 if you already take Barbarian 5, or waiting until level 9 for Extra Attack. I'd avoid that dilemma and go Barbarian 6/Rogue 14.

You dont think Battle Master manuevers and three attacks per round (not including action surge) is worth it?

[RulesJD]

Okay so ask yourself a few things:

Do you want to build the absolute most powerful build? Or just a good enough build?

These are important questions and they matter. Do you have other melee/damage people in your group? Will they be having less fun when you start dominating every combat?


If you still want the most powerful build:

Battlemaster Fighter 5/Totem Barbarian 3/Fighter+ up to 12.

Human Variant

ASI in order, including 1st (ONLY IF YOU KNOW THERE WILL BE A MAGICAL POLEARM, otherwise remove Polearm Mastery feat):
Polearm Master
GWM
Sentinel
Resiliency (Wisdom)
Toughness/boost Con depending on magic items/campaign style

For Battlemaster Maneuver Dice:
Precision
Riposte
Menacing Attack\Disarming Attack (depending on whether enemies in campaign are likely to be immune to frighten condition)



This build is brutally effective through all levels. You will deal massive amounts of single target damage at-will via 4-5 attacks per round (2-3 from Extra Attack + Bonus + Reaction from PAM/Sentinel/Riposte). You can use at-will Advantage from Reckless Attacking and Precision BM die with GWM to deal stupifying amounts of at-will damage.

But what about getting hit a bunch from Reckless Attack? That's what 1 Barbarian solves at level 6, and 3 Barbarian at level 8. You want Extra Attack first, but pickup Totem Rage immediately after that to shore up your defenses. Then grab Sentinel at Fighter 6 to ensure (with Riposte + PAM) almost always Reaction attacks. Res (Wis) finally to protect against most higher level spells, Toughness to get the cherry on top.


This build eventually picks up Barbarian 4 for the ASI, but not until character level 16. I would ask your DM if you can retrain to Fighter 4 right now, then pickup Fighter 5 before going Barbarian again.

But that right there is the optimized Fighter/Barbarian build. Past Fighter 12/Barbarian 4, I recommend picking up something like Cleric to add something to do when you don't want to Rage, plus Guidance is nice. Honestly at that point it really doesn't matter. You'll have (effectively) 400+ health and deal 100 damage per round easily (especially because items like Gauntlets of Ogre Strength/Belts of Giant Strength make boosting STR easy at higher levels).

[Malifice]

Take Barb to 5th for extra attack. Dont do anything else. Youll regret it if you do.

From there dip Champion for 3 levels. A 19-20 crit range plus reckless attack is a 20 percent chance per swing you score a crit. Plus, action surge. If your damage isnt high enough (and it should be) take a 4th level for GWM.

Then back to Barbarian. Stay there. Brutal crit + 19-20 crit range + reckless attack for the win.

[RaynorReynolds]

Thank you for taking the time to Couple clarifications:

1. The DM wont let me retrain so I am stuck at Barbarian 4. He has said that he plans to run this campaign to level 20+.
2. I have a +1 magical polearm that once per long rest gives me the following benefits:
- +2 AC and +2 dex saves
- damage increased to d12/d6 instead of the regular d10/d4.

Given that, should I take another level on Barbarian or wait 5 levels for extra attack?

Why do you recommend resilient wisdom over resilient dex?

Okay so ask yourself a few things:

Do you want to build the absolute most powerful build? Or just a good enough build?

These are important questions and they matter. Do you have other melee/damage people in your group? Will they be having less fun when you start dominating every combat?


If you still want the most powerful build:

Battlemaster Fighter 5/Totem Barbarian 3/Fighter+ up to 12.

Human Variant

ASI in order, including 1st (ONLY IF YOU KNOW THERE WILL BE A MAGICAL POLEARM, otherwise remove Polearm Mastery feat):
Polearm Master
GWM
Sentinel
Resiliency (Wisdom)
Toughness/boost Con depending on magic items/campaign style

For Battlemaster Maneuver Dice:
Precision
Riposte
Menacing Attack\Disarming Attack (depending on whether enemies in campaign are likely to be immune to frighten condition)



This build is brutally effective through all levels. You will deal massive amounts of single target damage at-will via 4-5 attacks per round (2-3 from Extra Attack + Bonus + Reaction from PAM/Sentinel/Riposte). You can use at-will Advantage from Reckless Attacking and Precision BM die with GWM to deal stupifying amounts of at-will damage.

But what about getting hit a bunch from Reckless Attack? That's what 1 Barbarian solves at level 6, and 3 Barbarian at level 8. You want Extra Attack first, but pickup Totem Rage immediately after that to shore up your defenses. Then grab Sentinel at Fighter 6 to ensure (with Riposte + PAM) almost always Reaction attacks. Res (Wis) finally to protect against most higher level spells, Toughness to get the cherry on top.


This build eventually picks up Barbarian 4 for the ASI, but not until character level 16. I would ask your DM if you can retrain to Fighter 4 right now, then pickup Fighter 5 before going Barbarian again.

But that right there is the optimized Fighter/Barbarian build. Past Fighter 12/Barbarian 4, I recommend picking up something like Cleric to add something to do when you don't want to Rage, plus Guidance is nice. Honestly at that point it really doesn't matter. You'll have (effectively) 400+ health and deal 100 damage per round easily (especially because items like Gauntlets of Ogre Strength/Belts of Giant Strength make boosting STR easy at higher levels).

[Arial Black]

Thank you for taking the time to Couple clarifications:

1. The DM wont let me retrain so I am stuck at Barbarian 4. He has said that he plans to run this campaign to level 20+.
2. I have a +1 magical polearm that once per long rest gives me the following benefits:
- +2 AC and +2 dex saves
- damage increased to d12/d6 instead of the regular d10/d4.

Given that, should I take another level on Barbarian or wait 5 levels for extra attack?

Why do you recommend resilient wisdom over resilient dex?

Option 1: stay at Bar 4 and switch to Ftr from then on. Problem: no Extra Attack (which is what you are in the party for!) until level 9.

Option 2: go to Bar 5 before switching to Ftr for the rest. Problem: when you get to 5/5, the second Extra Attack feature is wasted.

Option 3: go to Bar 5, switch to Ftr for no more than 4 levels ever, then switch back to Bar for the rest. Problem, no 3rd attack at 15th or 16th level (from 11 levels of Ftr).

You pays your money, you takes your choice.

As for the Dex versus Wis saves: Dex saves will mean you take less damage, Wis saves mean you avoid being controlled by the BBEG to murder your own party!

[RulesJD]

Thank you for taking the time to Couple clarifications:

1. The DM wont let me retrain so I am stuck at Barbarian 4. He has said that he plans to run this campaign to level 20+.
2. I have a +1 magical polearm that once per long rest gives me the following benefits:
- +2 AC and +2 dex saves
- damage increased to d12/d6 instead of the regular d10/d4.

Given that, should I take another level on Barbarian or wait 5 levels for extra attack?

Why do you recommend resilient wisdom over resilient dex?

Fair enough. Have you already taken the Polearm Master feat? Also, what kind of Barbarian are you? Presumably not Frenzy (pointless with a Polearm) so I assume Bear?

With that in mind, get to Barbarian 5 before anything else.

Barbarian 5/Battlemaster Fighter for the rest. It won't be an optimal build and it will take a looooong time to get really good (character level 16 for the 3rd attack).

The big problem with continuing as a Barbarian is that the Totem abilities are pointless on your character. The SCAG Totem choices are all really good, but with PAM, they are pointless as you already get an always-on Bonus Action attack. The additional ASI from Fighter will help you far more than additional Barbarian levels.

[Malifice]

Barbarian 17/ Fighter 3 solves all your problems.

Take Barb to 5th for extra attack, then into fighter for 3 levels (GWM fighting style at 1st plus second wind, then action surge for nova strikes, then 19-20 crit from champion).

Then back to barbarian for the rest.

If damage is a problem (and it shouldnt be!) you could go to fighter 4 for GWM, but I wouldnt bother.

[RaynorReynolds]

Fair enough. Have you already taken the Polearm Master feat? Also, what kind of Barbarian are you? Presumably not Frenzy (pointless with a Polearm) so I assume Bear?

With that in mind, get to Barbarian 5 before anything else.

Barbarian 5/Battlemaster Fighter for the rest. It won't be an optimal build and it will take a looooong time to get really good (character level 16 for the 3rd attack).

The big problem with continuing as a Barbarian is that the Totem abilities are pointless on your character. The SCAG Totem choices are all really good, but with PAM, they are pointless as you already get an always-on Bonus Action attack. The additional ASI from Fighter will help you far more than additional Barbarian levels.

I took PAM at level 1. And yes, Bear Totem. I will grab another level of Barbarian then for my extra attack. Thanks everyone!

[Malifice]

I took PAM at level 1. And yes, Bear Totem. I will grab another level of Barbarian then for my extra attack. Thanks everyone!

Yah bro, you'll kick yourself if you dont.

Extra attack is the bomb. Delaying it by a single level hurts bad; aint no way I would delay it by several.