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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Just realized a disturbing fact: IRL, one might score a devastating hit and still fumble
    You won't hit an ally, but you might still lose your grip on your weapon (1 - 3) or trip yourself (4 - 6).

    This means that an authentic simulation would probably require another d20 roll where a roll of 1 results in fumble regardless of your actual attack roll.
    . . . But this means adding another d20 roll on each attack, and adding more dice rolls is bad practice for gameflow (:cry:).


    Suggestions ?...........
    Uhh... fumbles are terrible in anything but a pure slapstick comedy game and should die in a fire. They're not worth including in any way, shape, or form in a game of epic fantasy and larger-than-life heroes, MUCH LESS when you wind up adding mechanics and slowing down the game to add them.

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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Uhh... fumbles are terrible in anything but a pure slapstick comedy game and should die in a fire. They're not worth including in any way, shape, or form in a game of epic fantasy and larger-than-life heroes, MUCH LESS when you wind up adding mechanics and slowing down the game to add them.
    YMMV.
    I have a positive experience where it comes to fumbles.
    If the DM does all the fumble rolls (a-synchronously) w/o nagging the players about every roll and just tells the players about fumble outcomes when they occure, "slowing down the game" is not really a factor.
    "slowing down the game" is a factor only if the players argue.

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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    One of the greatest things about table top gaming is you can adapt it to fit your group. I'm a firm believer in changing rules if they don't fit with with your style. Our group rarely plays high level characters (and we consider anything over 6th level high level) and I don't mind consulting charts. I started in the 70's with first edition, we used lots of charts back then. The goal is for everyone to have fun, and if that's happening, you're doing it right.
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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nupo View Post
    One of the greatest things about table top gaming is you can adapt it to fit your group. I'm a firm believer in changing rules if they don't fit with with your style. Our group rarely plays high level characters (and we consider anything over 6th level high level) and I don't mind consulting charts. I started in the 70's with first edition, we used lots of charts back then. The goal is for everyone to have fun, and if that's happening, you're doing it right.
    If you have something that's handled by consulting charts and you can achieve the same result w/o consulting charts, then you've made an improvement with no drawbacks.
    You have to admit that THAC-0 was an improvement over the BECMI hit chart. I myself came up with that solution (which stuck) long before we've examined AD&D.

    I get what Grod is saying.
    The reason why the majority of fumble rules pose a downgrade is because of random numbered percentage distribution of arbitrary collections of outcomes.
    Having to consult a chart every time a fumble occurs adds a lot of gametime loss.

    The solution I was looking for had to be something that's:
    1. Easily memorized.
    2. Makes sense in scope of scenarios.
    3. Easy to implement w/o gameflow "context switch".

    If one was to expand my proposal, the maximum I'd go for would be to use a d10 where:
    1-2: Hit an adjacent square (left/right of target, or self).
    3-4: Drop weapon
    5-6: Rendered prone
    7: Hit an adjacent square + Drop weapon (2 separate saves)
    8: Hit an adjacent square + Rendered prone (2 separate saves)
    9. Drop weapon + Rendered prone (2 separate saves)
    10. All three (3 separate saves)

    The above is easily memorizable w/o a chart.


    I chose not to add more results because they're not really needed.
    Example:
    - Taking a hit or a serious hit depends on the damage rolled.
    - Becoming stunned/dazed is not a realistic scenario of fumbling where adrenaline is involved.


    And yes. Even the above rule would slow down combat somewhat, in situations where you fight a single Boss enemy and you wanna roll all attacks at once at once. I'm not a fan of rolling all attacks at once, so that's not an issue for me.

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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    The most important fumble rule, if you must use them? They only apply on the first attack roll you make each turn-- otherwise you get the situation where a high-level character (making lots of attacks each round) fumbles more than a low-level one. Also, the "1-3" condition means your fumble rules fail the target practice test-- if a hundred warrior stand in line and roll attacks against dummies for an hour, you'll have significant casualties.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
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    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    The most important fumble rule, if you must use them? They only apply on the first attack roll you make each turn-- otherwise you get the situation where a high-level character (making lots of attacks each round) fumbles more than a low-level one. Also, the "1-3" condition means your fumble rules fail the target practice test-- if a hundred warrior stand in line and roll attacks against dummies for an hour, you'll have significant casualties.
    That observation hasen't eluded me.
    That's one of many reasons why in this system a score of 1 on a d20 roll is not an auto fail. This means that once a character has a total modifier of +14 on the Ref save (the save DC is 15), that character is effectively immune to fumbles (in the vein of "Yes, I'm that awesome").

    Also, notice that self inflicted injury only occurs in about 1 of 6 fumbles (1/3 of 5/10 probability) - if you fail your save. In practice, no more than 1 in about 200 attacks - even at low levels. That's not very often.


    As for attacking dummies - in such case I'd let it slide and skip fumble checks........ or - in the name of common sense - make a separate check for 01 on a d% roll (dummies don't fight back, so you're not busy defending yourself).

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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    As for attacking dummies - in such case I'd let it slide and skip fumble checks...
    "In situations where this rule is really terrible, I wouldn't use it."
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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    Preface: I don't think I've ever put in as much work into a single project as you probably did with this thread. That's a lot of dedication imo.

    Straight to the warrior:
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency

    A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields).
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency

    A barbarian is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, medium armor, and shields (except tower shields).
    Weapons and armor proficiencies: Warriors are proficient with all simple and martial weapons . They’re also proficient with medium armor and shields. Also, for each 3 Warrior levels, a warrior gains a bonus proficiency with an exotic weapon of his choice.
    Nitpicky stuff (I mess things up or don't care about these things all the time to be fair):
    proficiencies -> proficiency
    "martial weapons ." -> "martial weapons."

    Rule stuff:
    Unless you intended them not to be proficient with light armor, you may want to use the barbarian or fighter as a template.

    Combat Threat Supremacy
    The warrior can slay his foes with awe-inspiring ease. Whenever the warrior makes an AoO, it is treated as if against a helpless foe (Coup de Grace).
    It's 19th level, but it's scary how strong that is. I've never really been good at balancing things though.

    I see the skills and 4 skill points, but how good is this warrior outside of combat? Is it meant to be not good outside of combat? Is it more of a "If you're in a political campaign you might want to pick something else." sort of deal?

    That's all my commentary for now.

    EDIT: Under Warcraft, the table has an issue "Minimum Level + Other Requirements[/center]".
    Last edited by gooddragon1; 2017-03-22 at 09:49 PM.
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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    Not sure if this is finished or not yet, but I'll give my opinion. I didn't read all of it, honestly, I just skimmed through. I think its really admirable what you did, some classes really needed some love. Honestly though, I still think I'd rather stick with regular 3.5. Magic has always been more powerful than the sword and always will be. Magic is something we don't have IRL and so its the imagination of people coming to life.

    I think the magic item reliance especially for Fighters and Rangers and other weapon classes is not only fine, but also, realistic. In real life, a Dragon that is a few hundred feet long is going to weigh hundreds of thousands of pounds, perhaps millions. One swipe or stomp would literally crush a Fighter and the armor he's wearing like you see with that hydraulic press channel on youtube. Even if the armor was made of a material strong enough to not be crushed, your body would not survive the force of the hit. So it stands to reason he would need enchanted everything to go toe to toe with a creature like that.

    I realize this is d&d, suspend disbelief, but there is simply no reason why any fighter, even like 40th level, with no gear, has any business taking on dragons or demons. Its like a wizard not memorizing spells, you aren't bringing the right tools for the job. Most encounters in D&D are designed for a party of 4 people, and I don't think 4 20th level fighters are gonna have much fun against the great wyrm X dragon. In fact I'd say if you had a proper DM playing that dragon to 100% of its ability, 10/10 times they would lose. A pit fiend could simply teleport around them and throw fireballs and its at will SLA's until the fighters die or give up. Their classes are naturally limited by what a person can do which is admittedly not much in the scope of D&D. Even if you pick a powerful race you are still limiting it to what real life people can do bar acts of extreme strength and agility. I'd be fine with lower tier class characters like 4th and 5th tier going gestalt to something with a bit of utility if there was a mage and a cleric in the party.
    Last edited by SecretlyaFish; 2017-03-23 at 06:40 AM.

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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    Quote Originally Posted by SecretlyaFish View Post
    Not sure if this is finished or not yet, but I'll give my opinion. I didn't read all of it, honestly, I just skimmed through. I think its really admirable what you did, some classes really needed some love. Honestly though, I still think I'd rather stick with regular 3.5. Magic has always been more powerful than the sword and always will be. Magic is something we don't have IRL and so its the imagination of people coming to life.

    I think the magic item reliance especially for Fighters and Rangers and other weapon classes is not only fine, but also, realistic. In real life, a Dragon that is a few hundred feet long is going to weigh hundreds of thousands of pounds, perhaps millions. One swipe or stomp would literally crush a Fighter and the armor he's wearing like you see with that hydraulic press channel on youtube. Even if the armor was made of a material strong enough to not be crushed, your body would not survive the force of the hit. So it stands to reason he would need enchanted everything to go toe to toe with a creature like that.

    I realize this is d&d, suspend disbelief, but there is simply no reason why any fighter, even like 40th level, with no gear, has any business taking on dragons or demons. Its like a wizard not memorizing spells, you aren't bringing the right tools for the job. Most encounters in D&D are designed for a party of 4 people, and I don't think 4 20th level fighters are gonna have much fun against the great wyrm X dragon. In fact I'd say if you had a proper DM playing that dragon to 100% of its ability, 10/10 times they would lose. A pit fiend could simply teleport around them and throw fireballs and its at will SLA's until the fighters die or give up. Their classes are naturally limited by what a person can do which is admittedly not much in the scope of D&D. Even if you pick a powerful race you are still limiting it to what real life people can do bar acts of extreme strength and agility. I'd be fine with lower tier class characters like 4th and 5th tier going gestalt to something with a bit of utility if there was a mage and a cleric in the party.
    I have one response to that:
    Spoiler: Saitama
    Show



    Saitama
    Last edited by gooddragon1; 2017-03-23 at 07:53 AM.
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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    Quote Originally Posted by SecretlyaFish View Post
    Not sure if this is finished or not yet, but I'll give my opinion. I didn't read all of it, honestly, I just skimmed through. I think its really admirable what you did, some classes really needed some love. Honestly though, I still think I'd rather stick with regular 3.5. Magic has always been more powerful than the sword and always will be. Magic is something we don't have IRL and so its the imagination of people coming to life.

    I think the magic item reliance especially for Fighters and Rangers and other weapon classes is not only fine, but also, realistic. In real life, a Dragon that is a few hundred feet long is going to weigh hundreds of thousands of pounds, perhaps millions. One swipe or stomp would literally crush a Fighter and the armor he's wearing like you see with that hydraulic press channel on youtube. Even if the armor was made of a material strong enough to not be crushed, your body would not survive the force of the hit. So it stands to reason he would need enchanted everything to go toe to toe with a creature like that.

    I realize this is d&d, suspend disbelief, but there is simply no reason why any fighter, even like 40th level, with no gear, has any business taking on dragons or demons. Its like a wizard not memorizing spells, you aren't bringing the right tools for the job. Most encounters in D&D are designed for a party of 4 people, and I don't think 4 20th level fighters are gonna have much fun against the great wyrm X dragon. In fact I'd say if you had a proper DM playing that dragon to 100% of its ability, 10/10 times they would lose. A pit fiend could simply teleport around them and throw fireballs and its at will SLA's until the fighters die or give up. Their classes are naturally limited by what a person can do which is admittedly not much in the scope of D&D. Even if you pick a powerful race you are still limiting it to what real life people can do bar acts of extreme strength and agility. I'd be fine with lower tier class characters like 4th and 5th tier going gestalt to something with a bit of utility if there was a mage and a cleric in the party.
    This is a perfect example of the Guy at the Gym Fallacy: if a real-life human can't do it, neither can a fantasy character, no matter how high level. And while it's a fine idea, D&D is not the place for it. D&D is the level based game. You don't just go zero-to-hero, you go zero-to-demigod. Forget what casters get to do; by monster CRs alone, a high-level character is supposed to be fighting titans, demon lords, elder dragons, and world-devouring engines of destruction. You've passed "adventure" and entered "myth," and your character's capabilities should match that. A 20th level Fighter isn't Conan, they're Hercules, or Beowulf, or Cú Chulainn, or Rama.

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    This is a perfect example of the Guy at the Gym Fallacy: if a real-life human can't do it, neither can a fantasy character, no matter how high level. And while it's a fine idea, D&D is not the place for it. D&D is the level based game. You don't just go zero-to-hero, you go zero-to-demigod. Forget what casters get to do; by monster CRs alone, a high-level character is supposed to be fighting titans, demon lords, elder dragons, and world-devouring engines of destruction. You've passed "adventure" and entered "myth," and your character's capabilities should match that. A 20th level Fighter isn't Conan, they're Hercules, or Beowulf, or Cú Chulainn, or Rama.
    Thanks for showing me that! I know from my own experience that wanting to play primarily magic classes usually comes from what I wish I had/lack in real life, so I'll always be biased. Its a pretty interesting phenomenon, with the characters people create in either D&D or video games, and you can of course read too much into it but, there's also some truth to it quite often as well. I really enjoyed reading that, and although I still think its sort of a valid point, it did change my opinion on it. Its a fastasy game where your wildest fantasies should be able to come true. I do think for the most part, I was wrong especially as it pertains to D&D, and I happy that you changed my opinion. Thanks very much Grod!

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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    Preface: I don't think I've ever put in as much work into a single project as you probably did with this thread. That's a lot of dedication imo.
    TBH, as far as hombrewing goes, I don't think anyone ever has



    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    Straight to the warrior:

    . . .

    Nitpicky stuff (I mess things up or don't care about these things all the time to be fair):
    proficiencies -> proficiency
    "martial weapons ." -> "martial weapons."

    Rule stuff:
    Unless you intended them not to be proficient with light armor, you may want to use the barbarian or fighter as a template.
    Suggestion accepted.




    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    It's 19th level, but it's scary how strong that is. I've never really been good at balancing things though.
    Fullcasters are neigh unreachable at those levels.
    Monks hardly ever provoke at high levels.
    Dragon evolutionist and Netherhost are way more powerful and possess fantastic Fort saves. Couple that with the crit-substitution rules and it's suddenly a lot less impressive.
    Staying true to the path of a true warrior for 19 levels and investing 3 slots of one of the Warrior's more valuable assets - I say let him have his glory.



    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    I see the skills and 4 skill points, but how good is this warrior outside of combat? Is it meant to be not good outside of combat? Is it more of a "If you're in a political campaign you might want to pick something else." sort of deal?
    With a greater starting skill pool, an ability increase at each and every level and retroactive skill points accumulation, any character can be almost as skillful as you'd want them to be.



    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    EDIT: Under Warcraft, the table has an issue "Minimum Level + Other Requirements[/center]".
    Fixed. Thanks.

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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    Quote Originally Posted by GnomeWorks View Post
    "In situations where this rule is really terrible, I wouldn't use it."
    Not even close. You should've read that line to the end.

    1. D&D has never dealt with training rules. No point in starting now.
    2. Training is done in a controlled environment, using safety precautions. That's why training accidents are relatively rare (thousands of soldiers training every day, and yet a fatality occurs only once every few months).

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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Not even close. You should've read that line to the end.
    I read it.

    I was mocking you for wanting fumble rules in, but then saying you wouldn't use those fumble rules in a situation where it was demonstrated they would lead to utter fail.

    At 20th level, the wizard casts wish... and the fighter still has a 1-in-20 chance of throwing his sword around like a bumbling idiot. Oh wait, but they get a Reflex save... yeah, because what d20 needs is more rolls made during combat.
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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    Quote Originally Posted by GnomeWorks View Post
    I read it.

    I was mocking you for wanting fumble rules in, but then saying you wouldn't use those fumble rules in a situation where it was demonstrated they would lead to utter fail.

    At 20th level, the wizard casts wish... and the fighter still has a 1-in-20 chance of throwing his sword around like a bumbling idiot. Oh wait, but they get a Reflex save... yeah, because what d20 needs is more rolls made during combat.
    Oh, I see the root of the problem now. Utter fail was never meant to be viable.

    A short time after deciding to add fumble rules I also decided that the Warrior should have good Ref saves. In my mind it already had long ago. It's just something that fell through the cracks.
    This would practically guarantee that no later than 13th level a warrior becomes immune to fumbles, taking Combat Focus into account (assuming no 13th level warrior in this system is gonna have Dex lower than 14... and even if so, it's inevitable that they'd get there by level 16). And if a save is an auto-success, no point rolling it.

    Problem fixed.

    I also made the necessary clarifications in the Fumble rules.

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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    This would practically guarantee that no later than 13th level a warrior becomes immune to fumbles
    So at 13th level, this happens:

    Fighter: "Sweet, I no longer have a chance of throwing my sword around like a bumbling buffoon!"
    Wizard: "That's cool, I just got limited wish."

    Do you see the disconnect here?
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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    The main problems with fumble rules are that they make the weakest characters (martial classes) even weaker, they happen unrealistically often (I'm not a trained soldier let alone an accomplished world-saving hero, but I don't think I've ever dropped my weapon, tripped or worse hit myself during a fencing match - given that I should fail the reflex save most of the time, this should happen about one time in 30-35) and they can make attacking deadlier than, or almost as deadly as, being attacked. Oh, and they make the players feel really dumb whether they suffer them, their ally suffers them and accidentally hits them, or even if an enemy suffers them which cheapens the encounter. They're not realistic, they're not balanced, and they're not fun to have happen to you, not fun to have happen to your opponents, and not fun to have happen to anyone else either.

    Also, breaking your expensive bow or crossbow is no fun.

    To consider how realistic fumbles are, grab a pillow and have a pillow-fight with someone. Estimate how many attacks you each made, and then count how many times you dropped your pillows, accidentally whacked yourself, or tripped over (or all three at once!) during the fight, compared to how many times you hit. Chances are you did all those put together about once at most, and I don't think you're proficient with a pillow (or anything much else) let alone someone with real PC class levels (or any other kind of level with high reflex).

    Also, if someone accidentally threw a maul 20 feet I'd be more impressed than anything else. Especially if they also managed to attack someone north of them, hit someone south-west of them, throw it to the south-east, and fall prone all at once. Oh, and tell me, does the enemy to the south-west get to make an attack of opportunity against someone who's clearly opened himself up to attack before or after he gets clocked in the face with 20 lbs of giant hammer?
    Last edited by Jormengand; 2017-03-26 at 02:56 PM.

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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    Quote Originally Posted by GnomeWorks View Post
    So at 13th level, this happens:

    Fighter: "Sweet, I no longer have a chance of throwing my sword around like a bumbling buffoon!"
    Wizard: "That's cool, I just got limited wish."

    Do you see the disconnect here?
    1. If it's Limited Wish in specific that bothers you, notice that "Spell Tweaks" spoiler in post #4 says it's an 8th level spell now.
    2. With Dex +5, fumble immunity is available to warriors at 8th level, and ability increase at each level makes this task reasonably obtainable if it's important enough for you.
    3. If one finds it unreasonable for other classes not to have such benefit by 10th level or so, they can lower the save DC vs. fumble to 12. This would mean that most noncasters would overcome that issue midway after their transition from gritty to heroic (with warriors getting there at 6th with Dex +4, and other good-Refs having the option of getting there by 8th... sooner with Cat's Grace and other modifiers). Does that seem more reasonable to you?

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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    The main problems with fumble rules are that they make the weakest characters (martial classes) even weaker, ...
    Agreed. That's why my suggestion at #3 above is really starting to appeal to me. I believe that one takes care of this issue.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    they happen unrealistically often (I'm not a trained soldier let alone an accomplished world-saving hero, but I don't think I've ever dropped my weapon, tripped or worse hit myself during a fencing match - given that I should fail the reflex save most of the time, this should happen about one time in 30-35)
    Controlled contests in an optimal environment are no measuring tools for RL fights 1-on-1 (or many to many) to the death.
    - Any hit from your opponent could mean the end of your life. Meaning you're very busy avoiding getting hit.
    - The above means that you're doing your very best to beat your opponent to the punch.
    - Tension doesn't help with accuracy and motion control.
    - The terrain is unfamiliar more often than not. Definitely not tailor-made for optimal mobility and zero obstacles.
    - Most life and death conflicts don't occur after you've rested adequately and made proper warm-up stretches.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    and they can make attacking deadlier than, or almost as deadly as, being attacked.
    Not really. about 1 in 40 attacks you do something that doesn't advance your goals. That's a bit far from "almost as deadly as".



    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Oh, and they make the players feel really dumb whether they suffer them, their ally suffers them and accidentally hits them, or even if an enemy suffers them which cheapens the encounter. They're not realistic, they're not balanced, and they're not fun to have happen to you, not fun to have happen to your opponents, and not fun to have happen to anyone else either.

    Also, breaking your expensive bow or crossbow is no fun.
    If it ain't fun for you - don't use it. End of discussion.
    Even though an overhaul is one big mass (or mess ) of optional rules, I specifically tagged fumble rules as optional, knowing only too well that they're not for everyone.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    To consider how realistic fumbles are, grab a pillow and have a pillow-fight with someone. Estimate how many attacks you each made, and then count how many times you dropped your pillows, accidentally whacked yourself, or tripped over (or all three at once!) during the fight, compared to how many times you hit. Chances are you did all those put together about once at most, and I don't think you're proficient with a pillow (or anything much else) let alone someone with real PC class levels (or any other kind of level with high reflex).
    Choosing pillowfights was a poor choice.
    If you could find a coloring material that's transferred by contact but not by shaking the object, you'd be surprised how many marks from your own pillow end up on you... and I'm not even taking stains on your arms into account.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Also, if someone accidentally threw a maul 20 feet I'd be more impressed than anything else.
    For someone who's both strong enough and proficient to use one efficiently, that wouldn't surprise me one bit. Throwing 15 ponds 6 meters is hardly impressive. I could do that w/o even moving my feet, and I'm just a bit stronger than the average person.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Especially if they also managed to attack someone north of them, hit someone south-west of them, throw it to the south-east, and fall prone all at once.
    1. 6 seconds are a long time for someone that can attack twice in a given combat turn with an attack sequence.
    2. D&D doesn't have facing per core rules, because it's unrealistic that you wouldn't change your facing as you move on the battlefield.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Oh, and tell me, does the enemy to the south-west get to make an attack of opportunity against someone who's clearly opened himself up to attack before or after he gets clocked in the face with 20 lbs of giant hammer?
    Good point. My answer would probably be "after", since fumbles pose unexpected results and you could only notice the opening after the fashion.

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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Controlled contests in an optimal environment are no measuring tools for RL fights 1-on-1 (or many to many) to the death.
    - Any hit from your opponent could mean the end of your life. Meaning you're very busy avoiding getting hit.
    - The above means that you're doing your very best to beat your opponent to the punch.
    - Tension doesn't help with accuracy and motion control.
    - The terrain is unfamiliar more often than not. Definitely not tailor-made for optimal mobility and zero obstacles.
    - Most life and death conflicts don't occur after you've rested adequately and made proper warm-up stretches.
    I don't think I've ever punched myself or knocked myself prone in a spontaneous fight either.

    Not really. about 1 in 40 attacks you do something that doesn't advance your goals. That's a bit far from "almost as deadly as".
    About 1 in 40 attacks, you provoke an attack of opportunity and also either attack something you didn't mean to, open yourself up to further attacks you can't make attacks of opportunity against, lower your own AC drastically, or some combination.

    If it ain't fun for you - don't use it. End of discussion.
    Even though an overhaul is one big mass (or mess ) of optional rules, I specifically tagged fumble rules as optional, knowing only too well that they're not for everyone.
    If it's in there, there's a 100% chance that a DM somewhere will try to use it even if one or more of their players really hates it, and even though it's universally a bad idea; sometimes it's not my choice whether to use it. Prestige classes are also, incidentally, an "Optional rule".

    Choosing pillowfights was a poor choice.
    If you could find a coloring material that's transferred by contact but not by shaking the object, you'd be surprised how many marks from your own pillow end up on you... and I'm not even taking stains on your arms into account.
    Yes, and how many of these qualify as a "Hit" on yourself? If you're wielding a staff or polearm, you're probably going to hit yourself in the side with the haft a lot of the time, but it's not exactly as though that were damaging or even accidental.

    For someone who's both strong enough and proficient to use one efficiently, that wouldn't surprise me one bit. Throwing 15 ponds 6 meters is hardly impressive. I could do that w/o even moving my feet, and I'm just a bit stronger than the average person.

    1. 6 seconds are a long time for someone that can attack twice in a given combat turn with an attack sequence.
    2. D&D doesn't have facing per core rules, because it's unrealistic that you wouldn't change your facing as you move on the battlefield.
    Yes, but accidentally throwing a weapon 20 feet, hitting someone in a different direction, and falling prone, all while actually trying to hit someone in a third direction, is insane. It's not even possible to fail that hard. It would take some practice to redirect your attack around in the 240 degree arc it would need to go in (or 360, if you attacked forwards, hit backwards, and threw it forwards) even deliberately. The idea that it would happen accidentally is absurd.

    Good point. My answer would probably be "after", since fumbles pose unexpected results and you could only notice the opening after the fashion.
    Great, so you only notice that your opponent has left an opening to attack after you've been whacked straight in the face by their attack. Got it.

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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    I don't think I've ever punched myself or knocked myself prone in a spontaneous fight either.
    Pardon the 3rd degree, but what's your background in MMA / street fighting / fighting for your life?
    Do you realize just how much fencing duels in competitions differ from any of the above?



    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    About 1 in 40 attacks, you provoke an attack of opportunity and also either attack something you didn't mean to, open yourself up to further attacks you can't make attacks of opportunity against, lower your own AC drastically, or some combination.
    So, about 1 in 40 attacks is almost as deadly to the attacker as being attacked. I'm good with that.
    I remember quite a few fumbles in MMA.
    I also remember several fubles in the movies.
    I've seen my share of fumbles in Karate competitions (I should know, my 15 year old son is a Karate black belt, with a wall filled with trophies).



    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    If it's in there, there's a 100% chance that a DM somewhere will try to use it even if one or more of their players really hates it, and even though it's universally a bad idea; sometimes it's not my choice whether to use it. Prestige classes are also, incidentally, an "Optional rule".
    My guess is that any DM that would abopt my proposed fumble rules have already made up their minds adopting some kind of fumble rules.
    At the very least, no damage is done. More in the direction of damage control and for some an actual improvement.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Yes, and how many of these qualify as a "Hit" on yourself? If you're wielding a staff or polearm, you're probably going to hit yourself in the side with the haft a lot of the time, but it's not exactly as though that were damaging or even accidental.
    Inappropriate example, methinks.
    The majority of weapons (or "weapons", in the case of pillows) are not pole weapons and are not designed for utilization from parts other than their intended handle.
    Pole weapons have other limitations and utilization issues to take into consideration.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Yes, but accidentally throwing a weapon 20 feet, hitting someone in a different direction, and falling prone, all while actually trying to hit someone in a third direction, is insane. It's not even possible to fail that hard. It would take some practice to redirect your attack around in the 240 degree arc it would need to go in (or 360, if you attacked forwards, hit backwards, and threw it forwards) even deliberately. The idea that it would happen accidentally is absurd.
    Again. Although I'm stronger than the average person, I'm not exceptionally stronger.
    20 feet is approximately 6 meters. I can throw a sledge hammer roughly 13 meters.
    I'm assuming that weapons in the magnitude of sledge hammers were wielded in battle only by warriors who were significantly stronger than myself.
    So yes. 6 meters don't seem outrageous to me.



    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Great, so you only notice that your opponent has left an opening to attack after you've been whacked straight in the face by their attack. Got it.
    Now that you mentioned it, when I think of it, an opponent that takes a hit that results in a fumble is not entitled to an AoO vs. the attacker. After all, taking a hit breaks your rhythm.

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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    I love this post! It might get me back into playing after a 10 year hiatus (haven't played past 3.5).

    My comments on the debates so far:
    1. fumbles: while I don't like them, it seems like the probability is over-estimated by those objecting, and not really worth fighting over.
    1.a. Judging by the most recent OoTS strips, fumbles clearly have a place in dramatic storytelling, and this seems like a fair enough way to incorporate them unless it simply being a DM-issued plot point without any roll.
    1.b. I strongly like the idea of only the first or final attack being subject to fumble rules.
    1.c. If warriors are subject to fumbles, then so should magic-users (see #10 below), which fits perfectly with the strain system.

    2. Guy at the Gym fallacy: I think the easiest way to judge 'is it possible in our world?' is the monk speed bonus. A 6th level monk is fundamentally magic-free, and with the run feat, has a speed of 28mph (50*5=250 per 6 seconds) while carrying a light load of 58lb@str 14. Clearly 6th level is beyond the realm of mortals, and so anything beyond 5th level is in the realm of Hercules, Thor, etc. If you are killing supernatural beasts, that magical energy, translated as XP, infuses into the character, so even the 100% mundane warrior is quite supernatural.

    3. Government vs Adventurer power: I see no reason why power can't sit behind the scene and help the noble class provide the stability. The higher levels get political protection by keeping the status quo of the king's lineage or power structure intact. I think the disparate power levels could be addressed better by the level of the masses:
    3.a. getting through each season counts as ECL1. Therefore, the farmer that survives 35 years plateaus around level 4-5 before the xp returns do not help advance further.
    3.b. If that farm is in a difficult area, swamplands, frequent attacks, call it ECL3-5 per year, plateaus around 6. If most people that survive to their 50s (few) are level 6, then it makes killing a kingdom at level 10 sound much more ridiculous.
    3.c. http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Working..._Variant_Rule) is a different reference, more applicable to all professions, is more generous than the above, and can be extended to PC gains during downtime.

    4. Everything you've said about prestige classes is accurate. I would argue that you are going too far to accommodate these arguments of "every PrC is replicable," though.
    4.a. Anything that doesn't fit within the bounds of these limits should be done by character goals: each player gives the DM a list of 3+ things that they are trying to accomplish throughout the campaign that they are working on in their offtime.
    4.b. These can be sparks for in-game ideas, quests, reward with feats, etc. The DM can then give periodic hints, possible things that could be done that could lead down that road. This restores the wonder that is lost with clearly delineated prestige classes, similar to the final fantasy argument about PrC.
    4.c. The PC would write the desired benefit of the feat, and the feat(s)/skill points/GP/class abilities that will be committed to getting this effect. It would be up to the dm to re-write for balance and flavor. The same as researching a new spell, there would be a chance of failure determined by DM (especially if OP), but all committed feats/abilities would be released.

    ------------

    My thoughts on the rest of your works:
    5. avoiding death by damage: take random ability score damage to avoid excess damage that would drop you to "dying" or "death." This represents the heroic ability to take major wounds. Example: with 4hp left, you take 10 damage. Instead of the dying condition, would go to 0 (does this count as disabled), roll d6=1, and take 6 points of str damage. If taking another 10 damage, would take half (rounded down) to HP and the rest to another stat.
    5.a. This would not apply to minions, but could be used to have bosses try to flee.
    5.b. I don't know whether it would be worth letting the player decide how the damage would be split.
    5.c. This would recover at one point per day, or doubled with a heal check

    6. protection from death effects: All the classes seem to start getting insta-kill abilities between 15-20. I think it would be nice to have some abilities to counteract that: warrior 15, monk 15, rogue 17, netherhost 12, witch 13, etc: if you fail any save vs death, you instead take 3 ability score damage to all 6 stats. At the start of your next turn, roll again vs the same save or be staggered and only be able to take one move action per round for 24h.
    6.a.This ability drain does not recover on its own and can only be reversed with a restoration-type spell (per point) or a successful heal check vs the original save dc. (1 stat per day)
    6.b. only Regenerate or stronger magic can fully recover all stats. heightened to 8th level restores 2 points in one day, heightened to 9th level restores 3 in one day.
    6.c Does 3 points sound like enough? would a d6 or something else be better? I would want to balance the significance of the damage happening once vs. multiple attacks in the same manner, which would get harder to resist.

    7. it seems like you left a sentence out of "fractional saves" how do saves stack when multiclassing? would giving save values based on the racial 1HD fix this?

    8. ability score damage: revert to 3.5e rules for unconsciousness vs death. I think it's a nice flavor that different ability scores result in different conditions.

    9. ability score advancement: can you clarify what "you cannot push your racial ability-score limits faster than +1 per 4 class levels via level-progression alone." does that mean the scores penalized can't go up as fast?

    10. strain modification: you can preemptively deal ability score damage to yourself to add to your strain save. roll 1d6 to determine the affected stat, then choose a number of d6. Subtract the result from the affected stat and add that number to your strain save. The damage does not occur until completion of the spell and wild magic effects. If you beat the DC by 5, you can choose to manifest a wild magic effect along with the successful spell. For every 5 points you beat the DC by, roll again, then choose which result happens.
    10.a. feat: wild magic attunement: by taking this feat, you can choose to use strain modification after rolling but before resulting success/failure. This causes the strain gained to increase by 1 per die added.
    10.b. wild magic: If the strain save is successful, the Spellcaster casts the spell as normal. If the save is failed, the spell can instead cause wild magic effects. Roll a d20, if this is less than (strain-tolerance), it causes unintended damage to the fabric of reality, see http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Wild_Ma..._Variant_Rule) . If greater, the spell fizzles with no effect and the Spellcaster takes damage equal to the spell's strain-toll.
    10.c the ability score damage recovers at 1 point per day for all stats simultaneously, but cannot be sped up by any magical means. A successful heal check (with a + synergy bonus/spellcraft 5) vs (10+CL+highest SL) increases this to 2.


    11. strain cost: I would adjust the cost downwards so lv0-1 cost 0 sooner and lv3 costs 0 later. The rest of the chart is beautiful. example for full caster:
    Spoiler: strain
    Show
    Caster <------- Strain Cost by SL ------->
    Level 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
    ================================================== ===============================
    1 4 7 - - - - - - - -
    2 3 6 - - - - - - - -
    3 3 6 7 - - - - - - -
    4 2 5 6 - - - - - - -
    5 2 5 6 7 - - - - - -
    6 1 4 5 6 - - - - - -
    7 0 4 5 6 8 - - - - -
    8 0 3 4 5 7 - - - - -
    9 0 3 4 5 7 8 - - - -
    10 0 2 3 4 6 7 - - - -
    11 0 1 3 4 6 7 8 - - -
    12 0 0 2 3 5 6 7 - - -
    13 0 0 2 3 5 6 7 9 - -
    14 0 0 1 2 4 5 6 8 - -
    15 0 0 1 2 4 5 6 8 9 -
    16 0 0 0 1 3 4 5 7 8 -
    17 0 0 0 1 3 4 5 7 8 9
    18 0 0 0 0 2 3 4 6 7 8
    19 0 0 0 0 2 3 4 6 7 8
    20 0 0 0 0 1 2 3 5 6 7


    12. Warrior: I see no reason why combat focus could be re-activated in the same combat if voluntarily expended.

    13. Druid: Resident of the elemental planes: A druid has a total number of *weekly* uses of this ability equal to his Wis-bonus (minimum 1).
    Essence of eternity: The body reforms in the wild shape most commonly used. Though retaining his int/wis/cha, does not remember his true nature until 1d20 days, although contact with an ally can revert this. Contact with an enemy will let him remember his true form if making a will save with DC=10 + the enemy's character level. If slain in this animal form, he is permanently and irreversibly unable to take this animal form again, but still returns, as above, as a new animal form.

    14. have you thought about rules for flaws and accordant benefits? like taking a flaw gives an extra feat?

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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by faden View Post
    I love this post! It might get me back into playing after a 10 year hiatus (haven't played past 3.5).
    Since I'm not going to take active part in an RPG anytime soon, my efforts are driven mostly by intellectual curiosity, so that's about the best news I can get when it comes to this project – every time that it is put to actual practical use.



    Quote Originally Posted by faden View Post
    1.b. I strongly like the idea of only the first or final attack being subject to fumble rules.
    Use it if it works for you.
    The reason I wouldn't, is because I view iteratives as more than just additional swings, but rather each additional attack is comprised of multiple actions. In my view, iteratives suffering attack penalties means that iteratives also represent the ability to find more combat opportunities than unexperienced characters.
    This means that I wouldn't be able to rationalize such change, and I don't incorporate rules I can't justify (within the rationale of the game system).



    Quote Originally Posted by faden View Post
    2. Guy at the Gym fallacy: I think the easiest way to judge 'is it possible in our world?' is the monk speed bonus. A 6th level monk is fundamentally magic-free, and with the run feat, has a speed of 28mph (50*5=250 per 6 seconds) while carrying a light load of 58lb@str 14. Clearly 6th level is beyond the realm of mortals, and so anything beyond 5th level is in the realm of Hercules, Thor, etc. If you are killing supernatural beasts, that magical energy, translated as XP, infuses into the character, so even the 100% mundane warrior is quite supernatural.
    I'm good with this analysis... to a point – as long as no character becomes so powerful as to make threats trivial.



    Quote Originally Posted by faden View Post
    3. Government vs Adventurer power: I see no reason why power can't sit behind the scene and help the noble class provide the stability. The higher levels get political protection by keeping the status quo of the king's lineage or power structure intact. I think the disparate power levels could be addressed better by the level of the masses:
    3.a. getting through each season counts as ECL1. Therefore, the farmer that survives 35 years plateaus around level 4-5 before the xp returns do not help advance further.
    3.b. If that farm is in a difficult area, swamplands, frequent attacks, call it ECL3-5 per year, plateaus around 6. If most people that survive to their 50s (few) are level 6, then it makes killing a kingdom at level 10 sound much more ridiculous.
    3.c. http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Working..._Variant_Rule) is a different reference, more applicable to all professions, is more generous than the above, and can be extended to PC gains during downtime.
    I have no quarrels with this approach. I'm just not interested in downtime-level-progression enough to formulate progression rules over it.



    Quote Originally Posted by faden View Post
    4. Everything you've said about prestige classes is accurate. I would argue that you are going too far to accommodate these arguments of "every PrC is replicable," though.
    I don't remember ever using a term that could be interpreted as "every PrC is replicable". Not as is anyway.
    I did say that every character concept is viable... except maybe the intentionally excluded quintet: Apostle of Peace, Dweomerkeeper, Hathran, Iot7fV and Planar Shepherd. The other 3e character concepts I've encountered are all acceptable AFAICT. See also my reply for #6 for further details.
    I also didn't cover PF's Alchemist or Gunslinger. The former is a sort of mad scientist and the latter involves firearms – both not very fantasy oriented in my view.



    Quote Originally Posted by faden View Post
    4.a. Anything that doesn't fit within the bounds of these limits should be done by character goals: each player gives the DM a list of 3+ things that they are trying to accomplish throughout the campaign that they are working on in their offtime.
    4.b. These can be sparks for in-game ideas, quests, reward with feats, etc. The DM can then give periodic hints, possible things that could be done that could lead down that road. This restores the wonder that is lost with clearly delineated prestige classes, similar to the final fantasy argument about PrC.
    Given such things involve personal taste, I choose to leave such matters for each party to figure out.



    Quote Originally Posted by faden View Post
    4.c. The PC would write the desired benefit of the feat, and the feat(s)/skill points/GP/class abilities that will be committed to getting this effect. It would be up to the dm to re-write for balance and flavor. The same as researching a new spell, there would be a chance of failure determined by DM (especially if OP), but all committed feats/abilities would be released.
    I believe that everything in this project that involves feats provides a solid enough measuring tool for what feats should allow one to accomplish. What people bring on their own is on them to assess and game-test. No guidelines I'd add can replace common sense and evaluation of how things function until they're tested.


    ------------



    Quote Originally Posted by faden View Post
    My thoughts on the rest of your works:
    5. avoiding death by damage: take random ability score damage to avoid excess damage that would drop you to "dying" or "death." This represents the heroic ability to take major wounds. Example: with 4hp left, you take 10 damage. Instead of the dying condition, would go to 0 (does this count as disabled), roll d6=1, and take 6 points of str damage. If taking another 10 damage, would take half (rounded down) to HP and the rest to another stat.

    5.a. This would not apply to minions, but could be used to have bosses try to flee.
    5.b. I don't know whether it would be worth letting the player decide how the damage would be split.
    5.c. This would recover at one point per day, or doubled with a heal check
    I wonder if you noticed that the HP rules already grant a lot of lasting power to begin with – both in terms of initial HP and how far below ZERO you can drop before you're out... and any 1st level PC could go down to at least -2 and still auto-stabilized – more with level progression.
    I'm a bit hesitant in applying additional hard to memorize and hard to justify rules for increasing survivability even further than that. And I want there to still be a real and tangible threat of actually dying. The official game is a bit too gritty for my taste, but I still want to keep it gritty to a point.



    Quote Originally Posted by faden View Post
    6. protection from death effects: All the classes seem to start getting insta-kill abilities between 15-20. I think it would be nice to have some abilities to counteract that: warrior 15, monk 15, rogue 17, netherhost 12, witch 13, etc: if you fail any save vs death, you instead take 3 ability score damage to all 6 stats. At the start of your next turn, roll again vs the same save or be staggered and only be able to take one move action per round for 24h.
    I went a long way for granting all classes far better intrinsic defenses/resistances/immunities than the official classes.
    Add to that:
    - The improved save feats (Great Fort/Iron Will/Lightning Ref)
    - Ability increase with each level progression
    - The ability to purchase even further ability increase via feats
    - The ability for each character – with some RP and hard work for some – to acquire (Sp) and (Su) abilities
    The overall pictures is that it's a lot less trivial to insta-kill high level characters.
    The above offset Char-op strategies and high dependence of gear with a bit of extra.
    On top of that, a greater percentage of the classes has the ability to recover others that have fallen.
    I'm concerned that adopting your suggestion would totally trivialize threats at high levels and reduce them to mere (hardly inconvenient) daily bumps.


    Quote Originally Posted by faden View Post
    7. it seems like you left a sentence out of "fractional saves" how do saves stack when multiclassing? would giving save values based on the racial 1HD fix this?
    Actually, "Fractional" refers to them both, but I rephrased as you suggested to prevent that question in the future.
    ZERO level PCs have 1 racial HD and no save modifiers.
    Monsters come with their save stats.
    I haven't really thought about saves for PCs with extra racial HD. Probably according to their type, minus the initial 1 HD (in the name of simplicity for most PCs). I don't remember suggesting races with additional racial HD, so that one seems less relevant ATM.



    Quote Originally Posted by faden View Post
    8. ability score damage: revert to 3.5e rules for unconsciousness vs death. I think it's a nice flavor that different ability scores result in different conditions.
    Not sure what you're saying here and I prefer not to guess.



    Quote Originally Posted by faden View Post
    9. ability score advancement: can you clarify what "you cannot push your racial ability-score limits faster than +1 per 4 class levels via level-progression alone." does that mean the scores penalized can't go up as fast?
    Simple. Each race has a maximum score for each ability at 1st level (most being 18, with some higher or lower, as specified for each race). That maximum can be pushed up by +1 for each 4 HD the character attains.



    Quote Originally Posted by faden View Post
    10. strain modification: you can preemptively deal ability score damage to yourself to add to your strain save. roll 1d6 to determine the affected stat, then choose a number of d6. Subtract the result from the affected stat and add that number to your strain save.
    Basically, overtaxing is an undesirable predicament. Something that you have a shot at attempting and is mostly luck-based. I wouldn't want to encourage it.

    Also, you directed me here from #1 and I don't really see what this has to do with fumbles.



    Quote Originally Posted by faden View Post
    The damage does not occur until completion of the spell and wild magic effects. If you beat the DC by 5, you can choose to manifest a wild magic effect along with the successful spell. For every 5 points you beat the DC by, roll again, then choose which result happens.
    10.a. feat: wild magic attunement: by taking this feat, you can choose to use strain modification after rolling but before resulting success/failure. This causes the strain gained to increase by 1 per die added.
    10.b. wild magic: If the strain save is successful, the Spellcaster casts the spell as normal. If the save is failed, the spell can instead cause wild magic effects. Roll a d20, if this is less than (strain-tolerance), it causes unintended damage to the fabric of reality, see http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Wild_Ma..._Variant_Rule) . If greater, the spell fizzles with no effect and the Spellcaster takes damage equal to the spell's strain-toll.
    10.c the ability score damage recovers at 1 point per day for all stats simultaneously, but cannot be sped up by any magical means. A successful heal check (with a + synergy bonus/spellcraft 5) vs (10+CL+highest SL) increases this to 2.
    I have this real issue. I'm a rationalist (can't help it).
    This renders only one approach to wild magic from my standpoint, and makes the use of wild magic absolutely game-impractical outside of software-driven RPG.
    It goes like this:
    Wild magic (wild surges that is) is, well, wild. You can't gain any level of control over it.
    The effects of wild magic can be anything that's within the scope of the SL used.
    This means that a random SL is chosen between ZERO and the spell's actual level.
    Next, a random spell is chosen from the entire spell list of that level for the given class (dozens of spells, if not hundreds).
    Spell effects with personal range would target the caster.
    Spell effects with range of touch would affect the caster… unless a touch spell was cast and directed toward another, in which case the target is affected.
    Spell effects with greater ranges fire off to one of 8 possible directions at random (or one of 6, if you happen to be using a hex grid). (or 9 and 7 respectively, if the caster is a potential target).
    Ranged spells that are usually directed at specific targets have 50% miss chances (because the caster is not consciously directing them).

    I'm guessing you can tell by now why I never touched wild magic in this project.



    Quote Originally Posted by faden View Post
    11. strain cost: I would adjust the cost downwards so lv0-1 cost 0 sooner and lv3 costs 0 later. The rest of the chart is beautiful. example for full caster:
    I prefer even progression, and 9th level is ok by me for gaining unlimited access to cantrips/orisons.
    But still, I see nothing problematic with your suggestion. Use it if it suits you.

    And FYI – if you wrap your suggested table in a [CODE] [/CODE] block, it will align as you'd expected.
    Spoiler: strain
    Show

    Code:
    Caster <------- Strain Cost by SL ------->
    Level	0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9
    =================================================================================
    1	4	7	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
    2	3	6	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
    3	3	6	7	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
    4	2	5	6	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
    5	2	5	6	7	-	-	-	-	-	-
    6	1	4	5	6	-	-	-	-	-	-
    7	0	4	5	6	8	-	-	-	-	-
    8	0	3	4	5	7	-	-	-	-	-
    9	0	3	4	5	7	8	-	-	-	-
    10	0	2	3	4	6	7	-	-	-	-
    11	0	1	3	4	6	7	8	-	-	-
    12	0	0	2	3	5	6	7	-	-	-
    13	0	0	2	3	5	6	7	9	-	-
    14	0	0	1	2	4	5	6	8	-	-
    15	0	0	1	2	4	5	6	8	9	-
    16	0	0	0	1	3	4	5	7	8	-
    17	0	0	0	1	3	4	5	7	8	9
    18	0	0	0	0	2	3	4	6	7	8
    19	0	0	0	0	2	3	4	6	7	8
    20	0	0	0	0	1	2	3	5	6	7





    Quote Originally Posted by faden View Post
    12. Warrior: I see no reason why combat focus could be re-activated in the same combat if voluntarily expended.
    From my standpoint, because it's unfair that the one class most dedicated to combat tactics would only have one shot per encounter of enhancing its defenses. The Warrior is the one class that endures exclusively by merit of being combat smart – this means finding your tactical edge each round anew, prioritizing between offense and defense. That's all the Warrior has beyond character built. I wouldn't take that away.




    Quote Originally Posted by faden View Post
    13. Druid: Resident of the elemental planes: A druid has a total number of *weekly* uses of this ability equal to his Wis-bonus (minimum 1).
    Ok, I'm fine with that. Changed.



    Quote Originally Posted by faden View Post
    Essence of eternity: The body reforms in the wild shape most commonly used. Though retaining his int/wis/cha, does not remember his true nature until 1d20 days, although contact with an ally can revert this. Contact with an enemy will let him remember his true form if making a will save with DC=10 + the enemy's character level.
    Nice and flavorful. I like it.
    The form must be one that's native to the material prime.



    Quote Originally Posted by faden View Post
    If slain in this animal form, he is permanently and irreversibly unable to take this animal form again, but still returns, as above, as a new animal form.
    This one I don't like.
    What I can do to reflect the scenario, is to have the recovery duration elevated to d20 + 20 days, and the DC to 15 + enemy's char-level.



    Quote Originally Posted by faden View Post
    14. have you thought about rules for flaws and accordant benefits? like taking a flaw gives an extra feat?
    The overhaul does not specify (optional) rules to which I have no suggestions. Use them or not at your own judgement.
    .

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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    Dragon Evolutionist

    You may need to specify what sort of action the breath weapon requires.

    Powerful build: Are they treated as being large if they are medium? Or do they actually become large? If they have powerful build do they become huge? Or do they actually become large right away even though they were normally medium? Or are they treated as huge even though they are medium?

    Under wings:
    Gliding: Starting at 4th level, A dragon evolutionist can use his wings to glide, negating damage from a fall from any height and allowing 20' of forward travel for every 5 feet of descent. The dragon evolutionist glide at a speed of 30' with average maneuverability. Even if a dragon evolutionist's maneuverability improves, he can't hover while gliding. A dragon evolutionist can't glide while carrying a medium or heavy load.
    If a dragon evolutionist becomes unconscious or helpless while in midair, her wings naturally unfurl, and powerful ligaments stiffen them. The dragon evolutionist descends slowly in a tight corkscrew and takes only 1d6 points of falling damage, no matter the actual distance of the fall.
    It's not a requirement to be consistent with gender, but it's the standard.

    Claws, Bit & Tail -> Claws, Bite & Tail

    Interesting stuff altogether. Just figured I'd help out a little.
    Last edited by gooddragon1; 2017-04-25 at 11:29 PM.
    There is no emotion more useless in life than hate.

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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    You may need to specify what sort of action the breath weapon requires.
    Done - via link.



    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    Powerful build: Are they treated as being large if they are medium? Or do they actually become large? If they have powerful build do they become huge? Or do they actually become large right away even though they were normally medium? Or are they treated as huge even though they are medium?
    Ditto.
    Now that the Goliath's "Powerful Build" trait is explained, the Dragon Evolutionist's feature of the same name and "Size Increase" should be fully resolved.



    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    Under wings:

    It's not a requirement to be consistent with gender, but it's the standard.
    Fixed.



    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    Claws, Bit & Tail -> Claws, Bite & Tail
    Fixed



    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    Interesting stuff altogether. Just figured I'd help out a little.
    Thanks

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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    .

    Bumping - to circumvent thread-necromancy.

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    Default Re: 3.5e Overhaul – Fixing ALL 3.5e's problems (P.E.A.C.H)

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    .

    Bumping - to circumvent thread-necromancy.
    Does that count as conjuration (healing) instead? :D

    Also, huzzah, you add my Xenopolitans! <3
    Last edited by rferries; 2017-09-03 at 11:40 AM.

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    Default Re: Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    .
    Class: Warlock

    Spoiler
    Show

    Preface
    Spoiler
    Show

    Looking at the core Warlock, it's quite obvious that this class is underpowered and offers a very narrow array of options, per build.
    That’s what happens until 12th level – that’s where without some DM supervision a warlock can wield his “one class feature to rule them all” and easily start amassing magic items to the point where his class abilities hardly event matters anymore.

    This evolution of a previous work of mine is how I find it appropriate to make the Warlock versatile and fun throughout its pre-epic career.


    Oh, and just like “Mage” is synonymous with “Magus” / “Spellbinder” / “Wizard”, in my view, so is “Warlock” synonymous with “Sorcerer”.



    Alignment: Any excpt TN.

    Hit Die: d6.

    Table: The Warlock
    Saves Special
    Level BAB F R W Class Abilities Invocations Shapes & Essences
    1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Eldritch Blast, Overload
    21
    0
    2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Eldritch Eyes
    3
    0
    3rd +2 +1 +1 +3 Heritage
    3
    1
    4th +3 +1 +1 +4 Spell Resistance
    4
    1
    5th +3 +1 +1 +4 Fast Healing 1
    4
    2
    6th +4 +2 +2 +5 Spectral Blast
    52
    2
    7th +5 +2 +2 +5 Heritage, Aspect of Power
    6
    2
    8th +6 +2 +2 +6 Energy Resistance 5
    6
    3
    9th +6 +3 +3 +6 Split Blast (2 blasts)
    7
    3
    10th +7 +3 +3 +7 Sustaining Magic (eat, drink, sleep)
    7
    4
    11th +8 +3 +3 +7 Heritage
    83
    4
    12th +9 +4 +4 +8 Dual Essence
    9
    4
    13th +9 +4 +4 +8 Fast Healing 2, Erupting Blast
    9
    5
    14th +10 +4 +4 +9 Penetrating Blast
    10
    5
    15th +11 +5 +5 +9 Heritage
    10
    6
    16th +12 +5 +5 +10 Energy Resistance 10
    114
    6
    17th +12 +5 +5 +10 Split Blast (3 blasts)
    12
    6
    18th +13 +6 +6 +11 Eldritch Resilience
    12
    7
    19th +14 +6 +6 +11 Heritage, Name of Power
    13
    7
    20th +15 +6 +6 +12 Sustaining Magic (breathe, aging)
    13
    8

    1. The Warlock Gains access to Least invocations.
    2. The Warlock Gains access to Lesser invocations.
    3. The Warlock Gains access to Greater invocations.
    4. The Warlock Gains access to Grand invocations.



    Class Features:


    Class Skills: Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Disguise, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (the planes), Knowledge (religion), Profession, and Sense Motive.
    Skill Points Per Level: 4 + Int-mod.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Warlocks are proficient with all simple weapons. They're also proficient with light armor.
    but not with shields.



    Invocations, Shapes & Essences (Sp)
    A warlock may learn any official invocation from any source book (including Dragonfire Adept's invocations).
    An invocation may be traded for blast shape/essence, but not the other way around.
    A single invocation may be retrained at levels: 3, 5, 8, 10, 13, 15, 18 & 20. This also applies for invocations swapped for shape/essence.
    A single blast shape/essence may be retrained at levels: 4, 6, 7, 9, 11, 12, 14, 16, 17 & 19.
    Shapes & Essences Column: At any given time, a warlock cannot have more essences than [shapes +1] from this, and vice versa. This means that whenever this column shows an even number, the warlock has gained an equal number of shapes and essences. This by no means reflect on the number of shapes/essences a warlock can take instead of invocations. It just ensures that a 9th level warlock already has at least 1 known shape before acquiring Split Blast and at least 2 known essences before acquiring Dual Essence.
    Note: I don’t like the invocation category name “Dark”, because it implies evil orientation, and this remake allows multiple themes.

    Eldritch Blast (Su)
    EB keeps gaining 1d6 every other level past 11th level.
    Also, EB is not an untyped damage.
    Each warlock’s EB can produce three types of damage (one type per application of EB).
    Those three damage types are determined by the warlock’s alignment, which in turn is determined by his heritage.
    This is how it goes:
    - Evil (demonic heritage): Acid/Cold/Negative energy *
    - Good (celestial heritage): Cold/Electric/Positive energy*
    - Chaotic (fey heritage): Electric/Fire/Force*
    - Lawful (infernal heritage): Acid/Fire/Sonic*
    (* This damage type becomes available starting at 10th level)
    When targeting an opponent, a warlock senses any resistance or immunity that his target has against the damage types producible by his EB, thus, without much fuss, unless the warlock has particular reason to be less effective, the most potent damage type is always chosen.
    Note: EB damage counts as an Evocation effect, meaning that while EB cannot be triggered in A-M, once it is triggered, it's not affected by A-M, dispelling screens or SR (but carried essences are affected normally).

    EB Allows iterative attacks. In such case Eldrich Essence invocations apply to all attacks in the full attack, but the same essence applies to all iteratives and only once per target.
    AoE blast shapes are inapplicable for iterative attacks - they always count as your entire attack sequence.


    Overload (Su)
    Once per minute, a warlock may overload his EB to make it deal additional damage. After overloading, the warlock may not use his EB until after the end of his next turn.
    At 1st level, when overloading his EB, the warlock deals an additional 1d6 damage. At 5th level and each 4 levels thereafter, overload increases EB damage by 1d6 more (+2d6 at 5th Warlock level, +3d6 at 9th etc).
    When making iterative attacks with EB, only the first attack is overloaded, while the rest deal normal damage.
    When using Split Blast (see below), only one of the blasts is overloaded.


    Eldritch Eyes (Su)
    At 2nd level warlock gains the ability to Detect Magic at will, as the spell, which he can activate or suppress as a swift or immediate action.
    At 9th level, this ability evolves to operate as Arcane Sight.
    At 16th level, this ability evolves for the last time to operate as Greater Arcane Sight.


    Heritage
    A warlock is linked with the primal forces of the world. At 3rd level, one aspect (warlock’s choice) of the warlock's alignment manifests itself in the form of an Outsider Heritage Feat (see the Heritage Feats below).
    If at this point the warlock has no feat from his appropriate heritage, he gains the one with the "1st level only" requirement, otherwise he may select another feat from his heritage to which he qualifies.
    If the warlock has exhausted his heritage feats when gaining this ability, and the other aspect of his alignment is Neutral, he's entitled to a general feat, exclusively used for further enhancing or expanding Warlock powers. Subsequently, if he has another extreme alignment aspect, he may unlock a second heritage path.


    Spell Resistance (Su)
    Starting at 4th level, a warlock gains SR 10 + class level.
    He may will an effect to automatically breach his SR as a free action if he’s aware of the incoming effect.


    Fast Healing (Su)
    At 5th level, a warlock's body starts feeding off of magical energies. The warlock gains Fast Healing 1 (recovers 1 HP / round).
    Starting at 13th level, the warlock gains Fast Healing 2.
    If the warlock is cut off from magic (A-M or dead magic zone), this trait doesn't function.


    Spectral Blast (Sp)
    Starting at 6th level, a warlock's EB stretches to the ethereal plane and no longer suffers the usual 50% miss chance against ethereal or phased targets.


    Aspect of Power (Su)
    A 7th level warlock may concentrate to produce a mage hand effect or any effect of prestidigitation as the respective spells.
    He may also use arcane mark, dancing lights or ghost sound effects as spell-like abilities, at will.
    In each case his caster level equals his Warlock level.
    The warlock may also use either of the following abilities once per round, as a free action:
    - Distinct Voice: If the warlock wishes, anyone within 100' can hear him, regardless of noise around him, even when whispering.
    - Unnerving Glare: The warlock can make his eyes flash/glow with a chosen color whenever he wishes, and/or permanently be of unnatural color. This grants a +2 circumstance bonus to all Intimidate checks.


    Energy Resistance (Su)
    Starting at 8th level, a warlock's gains innate energy resistance 10 against the two types of damage at the warlock’s disposal (and against all three types, starting at 10th level).


    Split Blast (Su)
    At 9th level, a warlock may concentrate a great deal of magical power upon his EB, split that power and use it against different enemies (or groups of enemies).
    As a full-round action, the warlock may choose to split his EB into two blasts, but each deals one less die of damage, has a penalty of -2 to the ranged touch attack roll, and has a caster level reduction of -1. Splitting an EB does not count as a blast shape invocation and thus a warlock may imbue either blasts with blast shape.
    At 17th level, a warlock gains the ability to split his EB into three blasts, but each deals 2 less dice of damage, has a -4 penalty to their ranged touch attack roll, and has a caster level reduction of -2.
    Components of a split blast originate from a single point in space and cannot overlap.


    Sustaining Magic (Su)
    a 10th level warlock no longer needs to eat, drink or sleep. He’s sustained purely by magic.
    At level 20, magic sustains the warlock to such a degree that he no longer needs to breathe and he doesn't age unless disconnected from magic entirely. Moreover, the warlock doesn’t merely ceases to age, he actually becomes younger at the same rate he would advance, to a minimum age of adult. This reversed process does not take away or even prevent age-based increase of mental abilities.
    This benefit is lost whenever the warlock is denied access to magic (Antimagic, dead magic zone etc).


    Dual Essence (Sp)
    A 12th level warlock can now simultaneously imbue his EB with 2 essences.


    Erupting Blast (Su)
    A 13th level warlock can generate EB without uttering a sound or making any gestures, and can originate EB from anywhere on his body (eyes, forehead, chest etc).


    Penetrating Blast
    Starting at 14th level, a warlock's EB now does full damage to objects and bypasses SR and DR automatically. This does not come at the expense of Eldritch Essence or Blast Shape invocations. Note that SR still applies against any essence addendums that require Fort/Will saves (e.g. Frightful / Sickening / Beshadowed / Bewitching / Noxious / Utterdark Blast).


    Eldritch Resilience (Su)
    At 9th level, a warlock's fast healing becomes Regeneration 5.
    Furthermore, the warlock ignores the first time he's hit with energy drain or ability damage in a given combat round.


    Name of Power (Su)
    At 19th level, a warlock becomes aware when someone on the same world (planet) speaks his name (referring specifically to him). He knows when it happens and in what context, and learns the name and location of the speaker.
    This ability may be suppressed and renewed as a free action.





    Invocations:
    Spoiler
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    Omitted Invocations:
    Spoiler
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    Eldritch Glaive (DrM): Not needed, due to EB modifications and the redefinition of Hideous Blow.


    Modified Invocations:
    Spoiler
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    Brimstone Blast: Anyone damaged must succeed on a Reflex save or catch fire, suffering an additional 1d6 fire damage each round until the flames are extinguished.

    Dark Discorporation: Reduced to Greater invocation category (6th). This invocation's power and practical value were quite overrated.

    Devil's Sight: Also confers "See Invisible". Given invocations are such a valuable asset and given there's so little of them (even under these modifications), it seems that "Devil's Sight" and "See the Unseen" were intentionally created separately to annoy.

    Eldritch Cone: As the normal invocation, except the cone is increased from 30' to 60'.

    Flee the Scene: If the warlock has an active invocation that makes him invisible, he DOES NOT leave a Major Image after he shifts.

    Hideous Blow: Instead of a ranged touch attack, as a swift action, an EB modified by Hideous Blow can be channeled through a melee or range weapon when making an attack or as part of a full attack. Hideous Blow may be discharged on a successful touch or ranged-touch attack - regardless of whether or not the weapon deals any damage.

    Wall of Perilous Flames: As with Disintegrate, if a creature is KILLED by the wall, its remains are completely consumed.


    New Invocations:
    Spoiler
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    Shapes:
    Spoiler
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    Eldritch Bolt (Lesser; 3rd)
    Your EB is 5' diameter 60' long bolt that hits everything in its path. Unlike lightning, it doesn't ricochet, but it can be blocked by solid matter.

    Eldritch Burst (Lesser; 4th)
    This blast shape invocation turns Your EB into a small burst around you, striking out at everything within 10' + 5' per 5 Invoker levels (friend or foe, alive as well as inanimate). This is not a ray attack, so it requires no ranged touch attack. Any creature in the area of the burst may attempt a Fort save for ½ damage.

    Explosive Blast (Lesser; 4th)
    Your EB envelops the target and then explodes outwards.
    The target takes regular EB damage. Anyone within 10' of the target takes damage with Ref save for 1/2 damage.

    Eldritch Missiles (Least; 2nd)
    This blast shape invocation turns Your EB into an Eldritch Missile blast. Your EB damage can be split to generate multiple blasts (in 1d6 increments). All blasts are discharged at the same time and all targets must be within a 30' sphere.
    Special: Notice that your EB must deal at least 2d6 damage to benefit from this Shape essence.

    Eldritch Whip (Least, 2nd)
    Your EB is manifested as a whip of energy, dealing your normal EB damage amount and type on a successful touch attack within 15'.
    Your control over your eldritch whip allows you not to provoke AoOs for using it in melee.
    You may perform combat maneuvers with your eldritch whip. The damage dealt on a successful touch attack is cut by half and the maneuver may only be attempted if you make a normal melee attack.
    An eldritch whip cannot be sundered effectively. If it is successfully sundered, it immediately reforms.

    Essences:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Weaponry Blast (least; 2nd level)
    This essence invocation changes the EB damage into bludgeoning/piercing/slashing damage (warlock's choice).

    Phantom Blast (Greater; 5th)
    This eldritch essence invocation turns your EB into a phantom blast. A phantom Blast is, for all intent and purpose, invisible. It cannot be detected by any means and can only be noticed after the fact.

    Phase Blast (lesser; 4th level)
    This eldritch essence invocation causes your EB to phase into the ethereal and bypass all physical obstacles on its way to the target (including carried shield, a closed window, Wall of Force effect etc).

    Revealing Blast (Least; 1st)
    This essence changes your EB into a revealing blast.
    Anyone and anything hit by your EB is affected as if being subject to fairy fire spell effect.
    You may choose not to deal damage with a revealing blast, leaving only the fairy fire token effect.

    Shocking Blast (Lesser; 4th)
    Your Eldritch Blast deals electricity damage. If attacking a target in metal armor, you gain a +3 bonus to the attack roll, or the target suffers a -3 penalty to his saving throw (if your blast targets an area of effect). In addition, targets in Plate-Mail / Full-Plate become entangled for one round.

    Others:
    Spoiler
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    Compelling Vision (Greater; 6th)
    You can use dream as the spell with this invocation, except that at any point during the message you may implant a suggestion in your message. A successful Will save negates the suggestion effect and immediately breaks contact between you and the target.

    De-Orifice (Lesser; 4th)
    You can erase features of a creature's face, removing any sign that they were ever there.
    You can remove eyes, ears, nose or mouth.
    The invoker may apply 1 erasure per 4 levels, treating an eye or an ear as a single application and the mouth or nose as two applications.
    The target must make a successful Fort save or have the selected feature(s) removed and covered with flesh and skin.
    The removed feature(s) return to normal after 24 hours, or via the usage of Break Enchantment, Limited Wish, Wish or Miracle spell.
    Removing one eye gives the victim a -2 penalty on attack rolls and Spot checks. Removing both eyes renders the target blind.
    Removing one ear gives the victim a -2 penalty on all Listen checks. Removing both ears renders the target deaf.
    Removing the mouth makes it impossible for the target to speak, eat or drink.
    A target without a nose has no sense of smell.
    Removing both the mouth and nose makes it impossible for the target to breathe, subjecting it to possible suffocation. A heal skill check (DC 10) allows cutting the mouth open (provided a sharp tool is available), but causes 1 Con damage and 2d6 HP, and renders the target Staggered for 1 round.
    This invocation can be activated at a distance of up to 60' or by touch. When affecting a target at a distance, the victim is entitled to a separate save vs. each targeted organ. As a touch-delivered effect, the victim is entitled to just a single save. Failure means all selected orifices are erased.
    Once targeted, regardless of the save result, a creature cannot be affected by this invocation for the next 24 hours.
    A target that fails its save(s) against this effect for the first time must make an additional Will save or become paralyzed by fear for 1 round. This is a mind-affecting fear effect.
    Special: Though not really having game mechanics implications, this invocation may also affect pelvic orifices. In some cases, this could cause penalties due to not being able to expel bodily waste.
    Special: Starting at level 16, any and all bodily orifices may be sealed simultaneously.
    Special: This invocation has no effect on targets that have no Con-score (undead, constructs etc).

    Dark Grasp (Greater, 6th)
    The warlock creates a massive hand which is seemingly formed from pure darkness or a swarming mass of ghostly insects or bats (optional flavors)
    This invocation functions identically to the Telekinesis spell, except as follows:
    - It takes a full round to activate.
    - It requires concentration to maintain. When maintained, the dark hand occupies one of the warlock’s hands, so he may not perform actions which require fine manipulation or two hands in conjunction with this ability.
    - At the warlock’s discretion, it may deliver 1d6 cold, 1d6 electricity and 1d6 negative energy damage to anyone it successfully manipulates.
    - It is incorporeal and has AC = [10 + ½ CL + Cha-mod]
    - It has HP = [2 * CL]. If reduced to 0 HP, it vanishes and cannot be reformed for the next 8 hours. Otherwise, it regenerates 1 HP per round while maintained.

    Dark Whispers (Grand; 7th)
    The warlock can project his mind and afflict others with overwhelming disorientation and paranoia.
    The warlock designates a victim, who immediately begins hearing insidious, whispering, demanding voices in its head, forcing it to succeed at a Will save vs. DC [10 + 1/2 CL+ Cha-mod) or go insane for a number of rounds equal to the warlock's Cha-mod. While insane, the victim suffers a -6 penalty to Wis and is unable to tell friend from foe, lashing out violently against the nearest available creatures. Victims who pass the will save are immune to further uses of this invocation for 24 hours.
    Dark Whispers has an alternate effect on beings with intelligence scores that are normally immune to mind-affecting abilities - they must succeed at a Will save or the psychic shock instead deals them 6d6 points of damage.

    Detect Thoughts (Least; 2nd)
    This invocation works as the arcane spell of the same name. It is always active, ready for the warlock to utilize via concentration.

    Devil's Whispers (Greater; 5th)
    Not really a new invocation, but since it's from Ci, it can easily be neglected, and Suggestion on steroids a really nice ability.

    Expel Outsider (Lesser; 4th)
    When you use this invocation, you attempt to force an extraplanar creature within close range back to its proper plane.
    If the creature fails a Will save, it is forced to return to its original plane. However, if the creature succeeds on its save it can turn the invocation back against you, stunning you for 1 round, unless you make the save vs. the same DC.

    Magic Coating (Least; 1st)
    You can use Grease and Sticky Floor RotD, as the spells.

    Make Way (Greater; 5th)
    You can use Forcewave (SC), as the spell, with the following changes:
    - The AoE is 10' + 5' per 5 class levels.
    - The force wave affects everything, not just creatures.
    - Cha is used instead of Str for determining the Bull Rush score.

    Poltergeist (Grand; 8th)
    This invocation bestows upon the warlock the Incorporeal Subtype.
    This invocation lasts for 24 hours and is dismissable.
    Also, a successful targeted Dispel (dispel magic, greater dispel magic & disjunction) terminates the effect of this invocation.

    Size Step (Least; 2nd)
    This invocation allows the warlock to increase/decrease his size, just as if affected by Enlarge/Reduce Person spell.
    Unlike Enlarge/Reduce Person spell, this invocation has Range: Personal and affects non-humanoid as well (Elan/Genasi/Dromite/... etc).
    Size Step can increase the subject's size up to Large or reduce the subject's size down to Small. Warlocks of Tiny size or smaller may only be increases in size and Warlocks of Huge size or larger may only be decreased in size.

    Unbreak (Least; 2nd)
    This invocation functions as given for Make Whole spell.

    Undulant Innards (lesser; 4th)
    This invocation functions as the undulant innards spell (LoM, p.213), except for the range being personal.

    Word of mind (Lesser; 3rd)
    You emulate the ability of demons and devils and "speak" by thinking instead of using your voice.
    You gain telepathy 100’
    Notice that telepathy doesn’t grant mind reading capabilities. One’s not compelled to reply.
    Word of mind lasts for 24 hours.

    Necro-Themed Invocations:
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    Death’s Command (Least; 2nd)
    You can Command Undead as the spell.

    Phantom Steed (Lesser; 3rd):
    You may use Phantom Steed at-will. You may only have a single stead at a given time.

    Soul Snatch (Greater; 5th)
    You may attempt to snatch the soul of a Helpless or Dying creature, within close range.
    The target may attempt a Fort save to resist the effect (DC: 10 + 1/2 class levels + Cha-mod) or die.
    A snatched soul grants you knowledge of everything the creature thought about 24 hours prior to its death.
    You may hold onto the soul and utilize its link to the afterlife's to make a single Knowledge check with a bonus equal to the creature's CR (or its own Knowledge ranks, whichever is greater) plus your Cha-mod. The result of that check isn't limited by what you or the creature know. Once used in such a manner, the soul is released.

    Awaken Undead (Greater; 6th)
    Use Awaken Undead as the spell. These undead remain completely loyal to you and remain under your command if they were already under your command.

    Restless Dead (Greater; 6th)
    You can Create Undead as the spell, this undead crumbles to dust after one minute per CL unless you use the material components. This undead shares your alignment and is under your direct control.

    Relentless Souls (Dark; 8th)
    You can Create Greater Undead as the spell, this undead crumbles to dust after one minute per CL unless you use the material components. This undead shares your alignment and is under your direct control.

    Undead Legion (Dark; 9th)
    All undead of a specific type under your control within 30' of you become a legion.
    So long as these undead remain within 60' of each other, their total HP become a single pool of HP. These undead remain animated until the entire pool of HP is depleted – at which point all of the undead in the legion crumble to dust.
    If one of these undead leaves this area, it is removed from the legion, it gains HP equal to the number of HP currently in the pool divided by the number of undead currently in the legion, rounded down. If the number is below one, the undead crumbles into a pile of dust.
    An undead legion cannot be turned or rebuked unless the roll is sufficient to affect all undead in the legion. You can only have one legion created at a time in this way.



    Note: Brimstone Blast, Hellrime Blast, Shocking Blast and Vitriolic Blast deal 1d6 more damage when wielded by warlocks who already possess EB with their corresponding damage type.




    Feats:
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    Outsider Heritage Feate:
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    On very rare occasions, usually due to some cosmic event, creatures are born with an affinity to the denizens of one of the alignment associated planes of existence. Such creatures always possess an alignment aspect corresponding to their heritage and gain the first heritage feat of their heritage.


    Fiendish Heritage (evil)
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    Fiendish Heritage
    Requirements: 1st level only
    Benefits: You are descended from creatures native to the Lower Planes.
    You gain a +4 bonus on Fort saving throws against poison. You also gain a +1 bonus on saving throws against spells or other effects that target evil aligned creatures or which are exceptionally potent against evil aligned creatures.

    Fiendish Skin
    Requirements: Fiendish Heritage
    Benefits: You gain DR (overcome by good) equal to 1 + the total number of Fiendish Heritage feats you possess (including this one).

    Fiendish Power
    Requirements: Fiendish Heritage, character level 3rd
    Benefits: Your caster level and save DCs for evil spells and invocations increase by 1.

    Fiendish Presence
    Requirements: Fiendish Heritage, character level 6th
    Benefits: You gain the following spell-like abilities, each usable once per day: cause fear, detect thoughts, and suggestion. Your caster level equals your character level.

    Fiendish Legacy
    Requirements: Fiendish Heritage, character level 9th
    Benefits: You gain the following spell-like abilities, each usable once per day: teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only), summon monster V (fiendish creatures only) and unholy blight. Your caster level equals your character level.

    Celestial Heritage (good)
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    Celestial Heritage
    Requirements: 1st level only
    Benefits: You are descended from creatures native to the Celestial realms.
    You gain a +3 bonus on saving throws against polymorph and petrifaction effects.

    Celestial Skin
    Requirements: Celestial Heritage
    Benefit: You gain DR (overcome by Evil) equal to 1 + the total number of Celestial Heritage feats you possess (including this one).

    Celestial Power
    Requirements: Celestial Heritage, character level 3rd
    Benefits: Your caster level and save DCs for good spells and invocations increase by 1.

    Celestial Presence
    Requirements: Celestial Heritage, character level 6th
    Benefits: You gain the following spell-like abilities, each usable once per day: aid, commune, and detect evil. Your caster level equals your character level.

    Celestial Legacy
    Requirements: Celestial Heritage, character level 9th
    Benefits: You gain the following spell-like abilities, each usable once per day: teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only), summon monster V (Angelic creatures only), and Holy Smite. Your caster level equals your character level.

    Fey Heritage (chaotic)
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    Fey Heritage
    Requirements: 1st level only
    Benefits: You are descended from creatures native to the fey realms.
    You gain a +3 bonus on Will saving throws against Illusion effects.

    Fey Power
    Requirements: Fey Heritage
    Benefits: Your caster level and save DCs for Illusion spells and invocations increase by 1.

    Fey Skin
    Requirements: Fey Heritage, character level 3rd
    Benefits: You gain DR (overcome by cold iron) equal to 1 + the total number of Fey Heritage feats you possess (including this one).

    Fey Presence
    Requirements: Fey Heritage, character level 6th
    Benefits: You gain the following spell-like abilities, each usable once per day: charm monster, deep slumber, and disguise self. Your caster level equals your character level.

    Fey Legacy
    Requirements: Fey Heritage, character level 9th
    Benefits: You gain the following spell-like abilities, each usable once per day: confusion, dimension door, and summon nature's ally V. Your caster level equals your character level.

    Infernal Heritage (lawful)
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    Infernal Heritage
    Requirements: 1st level only
    Benefits: You are descended from creatures native to the upper realms.
    You gain a +3 bonus on Will saving throws against Enchantment effects.

    Infernal Power
    Requirements: Infernal Heritage
    Benefits: Your caster level and save DCs for Enchantment spells and invocations increase by 1.

    Infernal Skin
    Requirements: Infernal Heritage, character level 3rd
    Benefits: You gain DR (overcome by Chaos) equal to 1 + the number of Infernal Heritage feats you possess (including this one).

    Infernal Presence
    Requirements: Infernal Heritage, character level 6th
    Benefits: You gain the following spell-like abilities, each usable once per day: Charm Monster, Blindness/Deafness, and Disguise Self. Your caster level equals your character level.

    Infernal Legacy
    Requirements: Infernal Heritage, character level 9th
    Benefits: You gain the following spell-like abilities, each usable once per day: Speak with Dead, Order's Wrath, and summon nature's ally V (Lawful creatures only). Your caster level equals your character level.



    Embrace Outsider Heritage
    Requirements: Warlock 4th level, 2 alignment extremes
    Benefits: You gain access to EB damage types associated with your second alignment extreme. If both heritages share an elemental damage type (electricity for CG and acid for LE), then every time you fire an EB of that damage type, the EB damage is increased by 1 point per 4 Warlock levels.
    Special: This feat qualifies you for taking outsider heritage feats for your second alignment extreme w/o taking the entire line of feats for your original heritage.


    Other Feats:
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    Dark Transient
    Requirements: Knowledge (the planes) 15, Fell Flight, Flee the Scene, Path of Shadow
    Benefits: You gain the following benefits:
    - Your flight speed (from the fell flight invocation) increases by 30' and its maneuverability increases to perfect.
    - You can self transport great distances with a single thought (as greater teleport). You can also transport other creatures, but if you do, there is a chance of error (as teleport).
    - You can self plane shift with perfect accuracy. You can also transport other creatures, but you then suffer the inaccuracies normally incurred when using the spell.

    Eldritch Reattunement
    Your quest to fully understand the potential of your heritage grants you access to powers usually beyond your practice.
    Requirements: One or more Extra Invocation.
    Benefits: Once every 24 hours, you may temporarily lose access to an extra invocation in order to gain access to another invocation of the same level or lower on your class’ list that’s not in your repertoire.
    This process takes [1min / invocation grade] of uninterrupted meditation, and can only be done after getting a good night’s sleep. The exchange lasts until the next time you’re fully rested, fall unconscious or (if and when relevant) brought back from the dead.
    If you possess multiple extra invocations, you may swap any number of them, but you only get to try once and the durations stack. If interrupted, whatever invocations you failed to swap remains unchanged.
    Special: If you also possess an extra shape or essence, you may swap it as well, provided it's at least one grade lower than the highest grade of invocations you know (this restriction is removed at 21st Warlock level).

    Eldritch Retribution
    Requirements: Combat Reflexes
    Benefits: When someone scores a melee touch attack against you (whether or not actually dealing damage – minor contact is enough), you may discharge EB damage upon your attacker as an immediate action (auto-hit). You cannot modify this assault with essence or shape invocations and you must be aware of the incoming attack in order to retaliate.

    Eldritch Sculptor
    Requirements: Spellcraft 11, Eldritch Spear, Hideous Blow, Eldritch Chain, Eldritch Cone, Eldritch Doom
    Benefits: You control and shape your EB like a master sculptor and can enhance it in one of the following manners:
    - You can use two eldritch blasts per round as a full attack action, rather than the normal limit of one, and apply eldritch essences to both blasts.
    - You gain +2 bonus on attack rolls to hit an opponent with your EB.
    - If you modify your EB with the Eldritch Spear, the range increases to 500'.
    - You can use Hideous Blow as part of an AoO.
    - If you modify your EB with Eldritch Chain, you may start the chain up to 120' away from you and the maximum distance between each target increases to 60'.
    - The range of your Eldritch Cone increases to 120'.
    - The radius of Eldritch Doom increases to 40'.

    Eldritch Spell Sculpting: minor
    Your expanded knowledge grants you true insight to raw magic.
    Requirements: Extra Invocation: Least, Eldritch Reattunement
    Benefits: You may invoke any cantrip-grade spell (Mage/Priest/Druid) on the fly, as if it were a Lesser invocation.

    Eldritch Spell Sculpting: moderate
    Your insight to raw magic expands.
    Requirements: Extra Invocation: Lesser, Eldritch Spell Sculpting: minor
    Benefits: You may now invoke any 1st-levelspell (Mage/Priest/Druid) on the fly, as if it were a Greater invocation.

    Eldritch Spell Sculpting: major
    Your insight to raw magic has reaches new heights.
    Requirements: Extra Invocation: Greater, Eldritch Spell Sculpting: moderate
    Benefits: You may now invoke any 2nd-level spell (Mage/Priest/Druid) on the fly, as if it were a Grand invocation.

    Eldritch Spell Sculpting: epic
    Your insight to raw magic has reached its zenith.
    Requirements: Eldritch Spell Sculpting: major, Extra Invocation: Grand/Wyrm
    Benefits: You now have access to any 3rd-level-grade spell (Mage/Priest/Druid) on the fly, as well as any Least invocation.

    Extra Shape/Essence
    Prerequisites: At least 2 shapes/essences – respectively.
    Benefits: You learn one additional shape/essence from the list available to you.
    For example, a 6th level warlock could learn Eldritch Ricochet in addition to whatever shapes he already knows.
    Special: Extra shapes and essences don't count as invocations for any functionality or prerequisite.

    Empowered Eldritch Blast
    Requirements: Warlock level 6.
    Benefits: The damage dealt by your eldritch blast increases by 1d6.
    Special: For each 6 Warlock levels beyond 6th (12, 18 etc), you may take this feat one more time, stacking the effect.

    Master of the Elements
    Requirements: Knowledge (the planes) 21, Breath of the Night, Chilling Tentacles, Stony Grasp, Wall of Perilous Flame
    Benefits: You have achieved mastery of the four elements -- air, earth, fire, and water.
    - Once per day, you can summon a single creature from the summon monster I-IX list that is an elemental or has the air, earth, fire, or water subtype. The monster serves you for a number of rounds equal to your CL.
    - Once per day, you can use dominate monster on elementals and creatures with the air, earth, fire and water subtype. This effect lasts for a number of days equal to your Warlock class-level.
    - Your energy resistance against air, earth, fire and water is increased by 20 each.
    - Elementals and creatures with the air, earth, fire and water subtype view you as one of their kind. These creatures react to you as if their attitude is one step better than the situation otherwise warrants.

    Paragon Visionary
    Requirements: Spellcraft 9, Dark Foresight, Devil's Sight, Voidsense
    Benefits: Your powers of perception are beyond mortal ken.
    - You can see through illusions, magical darkness, shapechangers, and other effects (as true seeing).
    - You are automatically aware of all spells or magical effects you see.
    - Simply by looking at a creature, you can determine if it is a divine or arcane caster, whether it has any spell-like abilities, and the highest spell or spell-like abilities it knows.
    - When you use the Voidsense invocation, you gain Blindsight 60'.
    - You receive a bonus on all Listen, Sense Motive and Spot checks equal to double your Wisdom modifier or +6, whichever is greater.



    Divine Blast Feats:

    Spoiler
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    Corrupting Blast
    Requirements: Rebuke Undead class feature, Dual Essence Warlock feature, an eldritch essence that requires a saving throw
    Benefits: When mounting an EB with an essence that requires a saving throw, you can spend one of your Rebuke Undead uses as a swift action and modify your EB into a Corrupting Blast (counts as an essence).
    The target of your EB takes a -4 penalty to its saving throw vs. the essence mounted onto the modified EB, and the essence is more effective by 50% (chosen by the warlock in what way, if applicable at all).

    Healing Blast
    Requirements: Turn Undead class feature, Dual Essence Warlock feature, an invocation/essence that's harmless to others (no damage, no negative conditions).
    Benefits: You can spend one of your Turn Undead uses as a swift action and modify your EB into a Healing Blast.
    Your EB heals living creatures instead of dealing damage to them (the damage healed is equal to the damage normally dealt). When affected by Healing Blast, the target momentarily glows with a golden light.
    Against undead, healing blast deals damage as normal; against constructs or objects, healing blast has no effect.
    Healing Blast counts as two essences.





    First of all, please let me start off by saying I love what you've done to alter Warlock for the better.

    The one thing that I would highly suggest... A minimum of one invocation per level. Even Assassins and other prestige classes with very small spell selections (with the exception of maybe 1 or 2) get more spells in 10 levels (Especially Ur Priest) than the Warlock in their entire career, even with extras from feats! Yes, Invocations can be used virtually at will, ad infinitum, but that shouldn't mean they shouldn't have at least 1 invocation per level that they've been able to 'master'. Most classes that give spells allow those spells to be changed out, whereas Warlock doesn't have that luxury. They are stuck even more than a Sorcerer or Bard with their selections. Yes, they can change them out, at certain levels, but you're still left with a paltry few that you've spent you're entire career to master... In my time playing Warlock (and now playing Avowed) it's not game breaking in the least.

    Other than that, and my personal feelings on Imbue Item, aside I feel it looks really awesome and I would love to play it in virtually any game!
    Last edited by AOKost; 2017-09-03 at 05:11 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #240
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    Default Re: Warlock

    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    Does that count as conjuration (healing) instead? :D
    In a way, yes, I guess


    Quote Originally Posted by rferries View Post
    Also, huzzah, you add my Xenopolitans! <3
    Of course. It's awesome. Ignoring it would be criminal neglect on my part





    Quote Originally Posted by AOKost View Post
    First of all, please let me start off by saying I love what you've done to alter Warlock for the better.

    The one thing that I would highly suggest... A minimum of one invocation per level. Even Assassins and other prestige classes with very small spell selections (with the exception of maybe 1 or 2) get more spells in 10 levels (Especially Ur Priest) than the Warlock in their entire career, even with extras from feats! Yes, Invocations can be used virtually at will, ad infinitum, but that shouldn't mean they shouldn't have at least 1 invocation per level that they've been able to 'master'. Most classes that give spells allow those spells to be changed out, whereas Warlock doesn't have that luxury. They are stuck even more than a Sorcerer or Bard with their selections. Yes, they can change them out, at certain levels, but you're still left with a paltry few that you've spent you're entire career to master... In my time playing Warlock (and now playing Avowed) it's not game breaking in the least.

    Other than that, and my personal feelings on Imbue Item, aside I feel it looks really awesome and I would love to play it in virtually any game!
    First of all, I'm glad that you like the general direction.

    I'm always looking for ways to condense as much as humanly possible into a class w/o making it lose its elegance of design.
    That said, I'm a bit hesitant to add more invocations, for several reasons.

    1. If I was to count them by CArc standards, my Warlock already gives level+1 invocations. I consider shapes and essences a tad bit below other invocations, because invocations are upgraded spells in many ways (durations, repetitions, improved effects etc), so in the overall count, the average spread over 20 levels roughly equals an invocation per level.
    2. I needed the "Shapes & Essences" separate progression to justify Split Blast and Dual Essence. As a bonus, this also ensures that a novice player doesn't screw up his character by neglecting EB.
    3. Spectral Blast and Penetrating Blast are bonus essences that join other essences. This easily trumps 2 essences in any way by my count.
    4. Split Blast + EB-iteratives easily trumps any 3 shapes.
    5. Eldritch Eyes is an evolved magical perception compared to the official Warlock.
    6. Aspect of Power + Heritage feats = even more SLAs.
    7. The official Warlock doesn't get SR.
    8. If all the above is not enough, you also have Eldritch Reattunement that wasn't an option before. I'd spend those 4 feats w/o hesitation.

    Starting at mid-levels, all the above amount to 2 solidly built CArc warlocks working together in terms of power and to 4 CArc warlocks in terms of character versatility.

    In the overhaul project I tried to come as close as possible to make it impossible to choose between the different classes in terms of what you're getting for your money's worth.
    I feel that if I push the Warlock further than it already is, that would make it more attractive than the other classes.

    I'm looking for hearing from others if there's any room left to give the Warlock more w/o making it an obvious choice.

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