M&M First time GM help

[Weyroc]

As you can guess from my title, I'm a fist time GM and I'm going to be running MM for my friends.

We're all fairly learned with tabletop gaming in general, but I have no experience with the setting.

I'd really like some advice, both in general and system specific.

I'll be using Paragon City from "City of Heroes" as the primary setting, and my players will be acting as villains.

Big questions I have are:

-What sort of things should I disallow?
-Are there any optimization shenanigans I should look out for?
-I'll be making nemeses for my characters, any tips? (I have themes already, I mean things like keeping them as a threat
-Any other loose advice you can offer.

[Kid Jake]

Mutants and Masterminds is easy to break over your knee with almost no effort. You can make an eternal Groundhog's Day power that hurls the victim 24 hours back in time every 24 hours for the rest of forever, no save, for like 12 points. Moreso than any other game it requires the Gentleman's Agreement that everyone is sitting down to actually play and have fun, rather than make some ultra-powerful abomination that invalidates the game.

That being said, it's not hard to work in ANY character concept; so there's not much I'd really disallow. It's possible to purchase flat immunity from all forms of harm, but it would take all of your points to do so and you'd probably come to be known as The Mighty Speedbump. Something like Regeneration is a much more cost effective method of gaining some degree of invincibility (I've got a player that can regenerate from being fed through a wood chipper each round as a Free Action) but still requires a significant investment to get going.

So long as everyone is actually building a thematic character, rather than just a collection of things that look powerful, character creation should limit itself. If their powers run fairly eclectic then just make sure to use common sense before allowing something. "Oh, the one thing that can punch through your regeneration is fire? No you can't buy fire immunity!"

[Weyroc]

Thank you a lot, that helps some.

It seems the group will be comprised of these:

A teleport focused mage
Wielder of a sentient interdimensional scythe
Mad Doctor whose body releases a chemical that causes those around him to have seizures and be open to suggestion
A megahyena brute character
An alchemist who wields a stone that makes items into "less good" versions of itself, so they can turn iron to rust.

I have some plots in mind and some good thematic nemeses but I kinda worry about counters for powers.

Teleport-mage will be basically plane-shift SoDing people, which especially sounds like a problem.

[Blackhawk748]

Thank you a lot, that helps some.

It seems the group will be comprised of these:

A teleport focused mage
Wielder of a sentient interdimensional scythe
Mad Doctor whose body releases a chemical that causes those around him to have seizures and be open to suggestion
A megahyena brute character
An alchemist who wields a stone that makes items into "less good" versions of itself, so they can turn iron to rust.

I have some plots in mind and some good thematic nemeses but I kinda worry about counters for powers.

Teleport-mage will be basically plane-shift SoDing people, which especially sounds like a problem.

Ya the teleporting thing may be a problem, but remember they get a save. We had a Hero in our group that did this:

PC: "I teleport him 0.3 AUs that way *points up*"

Dont worry it was a giant robot and he only did it once.

As for counters do what comic books do, they have an opposite. You can even use my character for the opposite of the Hyena (im not sure what edition your using so ill just tell you what he did)

Name: Basilisk
Occupation:WW2 veteran (accidental super soldier)

Spoiler: Powers

Show

Regen (we stole 3Es for this, i regened 1 bruised per round)
Basilisk Venom, fires small needles that slowly cover the target in a coral like substance (Paralyze except Fort save)
Electricity Absorption, could absorb electricity and either heal himself or channel it into a godzilla style beam
Could Climb sheer surfaces and had low level super speed (40-60 mph IIRC)
Immunity (the rank 9 version Life Support, at least in 2e)
Oh and he was 10 ft tall could throw a car and looked like Godzilla crossed with a death claw

Spoiler: Slap some horns on this and your in the ballpark

Show

Spoiler: Weaknesses

Show

Cold, oh god the cold, he has problems operating in cold temperatures as well had a penalty on saves against them
He was permanently in "monster mode"
Got pretty angry when people called him a "monster" (not HULK SMASH!, more "Hes glaring at me isnt he" *hair ignites*, though if they kept doing it, it would be become BASILISK SMASH!!)
No matter what he did the media spun it so that he was the bad guy (think spider man, but every "official" media outlet did this)
Oh and a general hated him because he blamed Basilisk for his fathers ruined career (Basilisk was sick of being a test subject after the war so he bailed and accidentally-ed the generals career)

Spoiler: Whats he doing currently?

Show

He lives in a large abandoned Botanical Gardens in the "bad part" of town (think Gotham City style botanical gardens) and he lets a bunch of bums live there with him. They help him with his chemical work as he is trying to figure out why he shifted and if it can be reversed

So theres an example, use him, dont use him. Your choice. Oh and he was made in 2e at PL 10

[gom jabbarwocky]

A good counter for teleport powers are.... well, more teleport powers.

"I teleport him all the hell the way over there!"

"He teleports back."

"Darn it!"

[Blackhawk748]

A good counter for teleport powers are.... well, more teleport powers.

"I teleport him all the hell the way over there!"

"He teleports back."

"Darn it!"

This is also funny because then you can get Goku vs Cooler, where they're just teleporting all over the place as they are beating the tar out of each other.

[prufock]

Ya the teleporting thing may be a problem, but remember they get a save. We had a Hero in our group that did this:

PC: "I teleport him 0.3 AUs that way *points up*"

Dont worry it was a giant robot and he only did it once.

To the OP, note that this is something like a rank 33 teleport. As an attack power, the rank is limited by power level, so that shouldn't really be possible. Always do a review of character builds to spot check for things that are obviously broken. If you have more reasonable ranks, this doesn't get quite so out of hand. Remember that the target gets a save, and that villains can use DM Fiat (granting HP to the hero) when you really don't want it to happen. Don't abuse that ability, though.

[Weyroc]

To the OP, note that this is something like a rank 33 teleport. As an attack power, the rank is limited by power level, so that shouldn't really be possible. Always do a review of character builds to spot check for things that are obviously broken. If you have more reasonable ranks, this doesn't get quite so out of hand. Remember that the target gets a save, and that villains can use DM Fiat (granting HP to the hero) when you really don't want it to happen. Don't abuse that ability, though.

They're claiming their power will look like this

16 Teleportation 8
+0 Attack
+1 Insidious
+4 +8 Accurate
+1 Homing
+1 Reach
+3 Dimensional

[JeenLeen]

It doesn't look like you will have this problem with these character ideas, but I would recommend disallowing powers that let you imitate other powers or that give you a pool of points to spend on powers. I forget the name, but I think there's something like dynamic magic, or just versatile, and some type of shapeshifting that does this. This is not to say your players shouldn't be able to do magic or shapeshift, but to recommend buying those powers through more specific effects as opposed to a 'I can do what I want on the fly' set of powers.
I think this both limits abuse potential, as well as keeping the rules from getting too complicated for first-time players.

Also, try to help the players understand the importance of Toughness rolls, and balancing accuracy and damage. It's fine if someone wants to be a glass cannon or a 'hits rarely but strong when he hits'-type, but I can see someone being disappointed if, due to misunderstanding how the rules work, they don't function well.

Lastly, some players might want enough invulnerability to be able to resist gunshots without rolling. I forget the difficulty, but it's not too expensive, so maybe mention that if they plan on fighting a lot of thugs or cops.

[Weyroc]

Lastly, some players might want enough invulnerability to be able to resist gunshots without rolling. I forget the difficulty, but it's not too expensive, so maybe mention that if they plan on fighting a lot of thugs or cops.

One of the beauties of Paragon City is the fact that any cop that knows they're going up against a cape is coming in a hard suit, with tech weapons, or is bound up with a crime fighting alien.

[prufock]

They're claiming their power will look like this

16 Teleportation 8
+0 Attack
+1 Insidious
+4 +8 Accurate
+1 Homing
+1 Reach
+3 Dimensional

Teleport has a range of Rank. Rank 8 teleport is 1 mile. This shouldn't be too much of a problem with a DC 18 resistance.

[Weyroc]

Teleport has a range of Rank. Rank 8 teleport is 1 mile. This shouldn't be too much of a problem with a DC 18 resistance.

They're claiming that with the dimensional modifier, they can just dump people into other dimensions using it, so unless there's a hard counter or the person has powers to return, it's a Save-or-Lose

[Cazero]

They also forgot to put increased mass extra on it. Someone carrying heavy gear, like a submachine gun and a bulletproof vest, is too heavy to be affected. Heck, someone fat is too heavy to be affected. But that's too easy cancelled.

The proper answer is plot hooks.
If they can dump heroes in other dimensions, other dimensions heroes can come to explain to them why it's a bad idea.

[Weyroc]

The proper answer is plot hooks.
If they can dump heroes in other dimensions, other dimensions heroes can come to explain to them why it's a bad idea.

Hmm, setting issue there. Hell (The location), a number of absolutely barren earths, and places full of nothing but giant monsters are all different dimensions available to transport to, although I suppose I could just argue that since they don't know anything about those dimensions, they can't just dump to other planes. Even with accurate, they have to describe the location...

[Blackhawk748]

To the OP, note that this is something like a rank 33 teleport.

He did this with Rank 10 teleport, however he could teleport as far as he could see (he just happened to have telescopic vision ) However it was his primary power so no one really minded.

I thinks its just called Magic actually, and honestly its not all that bad, we had a mage and she just filled in the holes in the party. Though obviously it can be abused out the wazoo, a lot of that in M&M actually.

The power for anti-gun is Impenetrable?Impervious and its an extra for your Resistance save, basically if the attack value is less it doesnt get through. I had it, very nice. Beaten by Armor Piercing though.

In short M&M requires, more than most systems, a Gentlemans agreement not to Power Game like theres no tomorrow.

[Kaun]

IMHO Supers is the second hardest genre to run well. But here are some tips.

Tip 1: Try to convince you players to stick to the tropes. While meticulously murdering every super villain they encounter might make sense on paper, it isn't very... heroic.

Tip 2: Try to lay out what type of hero's you are looking for in your game prior to character creation. If you end up with spawn and Captain America in the same group it can cause issues in the long run. As you looking for Silver age or Broody 90's style or ... what ever... just make sure everybody is on the same page from the get go.

Tip 3: When your preping an encounter never make it just combat. It should always be (X) + combat, where x is any other climactic event. Combat is really important in supers games but it should never be the focal point, and villains and heros should rarely be in a situation where they decide, "f*&K it, lets just beat the poop out of each other for 15 minutes for no good reason.

Tip 3.1: In addition to the above, good supers encounters are all about choice. Put your Hero's into situations where they have to make a choices, the more climactic the situation the worse the choice options should be. Do they chase the fleeing villain or do they save the civilians from the fire. Do they blast the villain that's out in the open or try to stop the bridge from collapsing. tl:dr no vanilla fights, choices choices choices.

There are probably more things that i could come up with but i need a nap.

[Weyroc]

They're actually playing villains, and I think the gentleman's agreement is mostly intact, it's just my inexperience is giving me jitters.

[Blackhawk748]

They're actually playing villains, and I think the gentleman's agreement is mostly intact, it's just my inexperience is giving me jitters.

Eh youll be fine, the thing i love about M&M is the fact that making basic opponents is a cakewalk. Minions especially.

Sadly they're the villains, so waves of mooks is probably out of the question. Lots of Robots?

[prufock]

They're claiming that with the dimensional modifier, they can just dump people into other dimensions using it, so unless there's a hard counter or the person has powers to return, it's a Save-or-Lose

Dimensional doesn't work that way. It allows you to target people who are already in other dimensions, but located near you. You'd need a way to detect them as well.

He did this with Rank 10 teleport, however he could teleport as far as he could see (he just happened to have telescopic vision

This isn't supported by the rules. Teleport has a limited range depending on your rank, not your line of sight. It's "Range: Rank" which means you can't even use the Increased Range extra on it. At rank 10 he'd be limited to 4 miles as an attack.

Note: I'm assuming 3e.

[Cazero]

Hmm, setting issue there. Hell (The location), a number of absolutely barren earths, and places full of nothing but giant monsters are all different dimensions available to transport to, although I suppose I could just argue that since they don't know anything about those dimensions, they can't just dump to other planes. Even with accurate, they have to describe the location...

Not a problem. None of those are good ideas, and I can quote examples for all of them.

Hell? The D-man himself will not appreciate your dumping of do-gooders in his personnal dimension of torture and doom, especially since the trash you dropped on his lawn is feeling obligated to stick it up to him.
An absolutely barren place? Like the one were Goku can train one year in one day, and that looked such a good idea for containing Buu in until he shouted his way out? There is always a way out of those since nothing will kill them there.
And dimensions full of monsters. Good ol' reliable monsters. Are you familiar with CoC? The Last Door? The Discworld novel where some plotters temporarily summon a real deal fantastic dragon and piss her to the point that she find her way in the Discworld by herself for revenge? When you dump heroes in a dimension of monsters, monsters see where those heroes come from, and they might go there for no specific reason.

It's a shame your villains don't have a hero to pull an enemy mine with anymore, because all of those can be way out of their league.

[Beleriphon]

Dimensional doesn't work that way. It allows you to target people who are already in other dimensions, but located near you. You'd need a way to detect them as well.


This isn't supported by the rules. Teleport has a limited range depending on your rank, not your line of sight. It's "Range: Rank" which means you can't even use the Increased Range extra on it. At rank 10 he'd be limited to 4 miles as an attack.

Note: I'm assuming 3e.

Yeah, it 2E I'm pretty sure a rank 10 teleport was the Moon, or there abouts.

As a point of reference to get to the speed of light using Flight, in either edition, requires somewhere around rank 24. I much prefer 3E space flight option, there there's 6 ranks and they go: 1) slow interplanetary 2) medium interplanetary and 3) fast interplanetary and the then same speeds for interstellar.

Not a problem. None of those are good ideas, and I can quote examples for all of them.

Hell? The D-man himself will not appreciate your dumping of do-gooders in his personnal dimension of torture and doom, especially since the trash you dropped on his lawn is feeling obligated to stick it up to him.
An absolutely barren place? Like the one were Goku can train one year in one day, and that looked such a good idea for containing Buu in until he shouted his way out? There is always a way out of those since nothing will kill them there.
And dimensions full of monsters. Good ol' reliable monsters. Are you familiar with CoC? The Last Door? The Discworld novel where some plotters temporarily summon a real deal fantastic dragon and piss her to the point that she find her way in the Discworld by herself for revenge? When you dump heroes in a dimension of monsters, monsters see where those heroes come from, and they might go there for no specific reason.

It's a shame your villains don't have a hero to pull an enemy mine with anymore, because all of those can be way out of their league.

Negative/Phantom Zone prisones never work as advertized. Now...... KNEEEL BEFORE ZOD!

[Blackhawk748]

Yeah, it 2E I'm pretty sure a rank 10 teleport was the Moon, or there abouts.

Correct it was 2E.

Also seconding pretty much everything Cazero said (totally forgot that the big man downstairs was home)

Honestly teleporting to other dimensions is kind of a lousy attack, teleporting AU however.... is still not a great attack, it works but there are plenty of ways around it.

[prufock]

Correct it was 2E.

Yeah, the ranks and measures table progressed much more quickly in 2e. So advice for the OP: play 3e. Not only is it more balanced and streamlined, it has an SRD.

[Weyroc]

Yeah, the ranks and measures table progressed much more quickly in 2e. So advice for the OP: play 3e. Not only is it more balanced and streamlined, it has an SRD.

We are indeed playing 3e.

Thank you for the advice everyone, really. It's helping a lot of my performance anxiety.

[Sith_Happens]

They're claiming that with the dimensional modifier, they can just dump people into other dimensions using it, so unless there's a hard counter or the person has powers to return, it's a Save-or-Lose

Did I never actually comment on this? I thought I did, but apparently not. You've probably already started play by now, but that doesn't make it too late to change some things if your players are understanding enough.

Anyways, besides the fact that that's not what the Dimensional modifier does, here's my recommendation:

M&M 3e is very carefully and for the most part expertly designed such that "save-or-(die/lose)" is not a thing that exists. You should plug up what few holes remain. For the most part, those holes consist entirely of the Attack modifier when applied to either

* Enhanced Trait with the Reduced Trait flaw.
* Insubstantial 4 (or 2+ versus opponents that primarily rely on their Strength).
* Morph with the Metamorph extra.
* Teleport.

You "plug" the holes, of course, by disallowing these combinations.

Sadly they're the villains, so waves of mooks is probably out of the question.

No reason the cops can't occasionally try to zerg-rush them.

[Blackhawk748]

No reason the cops can't occasionally try to zerg-rush them.

I guess, though i feel fighting cops would get boring as they usually have the same load out. Though if this city has a "hulk-buster" equivalent squad this could get fun as they will probably be a PL or 2 above your average mook.

Then again, im the guy that made a character that was only hurt by RPGs and Tank rounds. Seriously i laughed at all small arms and a few LMGs. I love Impervious.

[Sith_Happens]

Though if this city has a "hulk-buster" equivalent squad this could get fun as they will probably be a PL or 2 above your average mook.

According to a prior reply by the OP the local SWAT teams will in fact have the sorts of tech required to at least severely slow down your average supervillain.

Then again, im the guy that made a character that was only hurt by RPGs and Tank rounds. Seriously i laughed at all small arms and a few LMGs. I love Impervious.

As far as I'm concerned, having to replace the "cop" in "cop zerg-rush" with "National Guard" is a feature, not a bug.

[Blackhawk748]

According to a prior reply by the OP the local SWAT teams will in fact have the sorts of tech required to at least severely slow down your average supervillain.



As far as I'm concerned, having to replace the "cop" in "cop zerg-rush" with "National Guard" is a feature, not a bug.

Firstly, missed that. Secondly you and I are in agreement.