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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Salem WW trials have ended in town victory, and a witch victory for bladescape.
    Last edited by Duck999; 2015-05-19 at 02:08 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFT on quicktopic
    Oh no, Duck999 is a mason.

    How can I possibly suspect you of being a wolf now? :(

    :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Legato Endless View Post
    Duck: Mason. A really shifty mason, but a confirmed role nonetheless.

    Slii: Slii is town. He looks better than Duck even with that mason claim.

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    'Grats for a finished game!

    Okay, so you asked me to give it a week, and I wanted to know what you thought about me starting recruiting for WW Classic [Insert Next Roman Numeral Here] this Friday, but I am genuinely worried about the current narrator not being able to get his game off the ground first.

    What do you think?

    Edit:

    Just a quick question:

    What is the current ruling for WW Classic, for the Devil being able to be in contact with the Werewolves? I did some research back in the original days and found that s/he did NOT have access, although later, was given contact/knowledge, although I don't know why. IMO, the Devil's role was to be EXACTLY like the Seer, but instead working for the Werewolves.

    [Almost] Lastly, I've seen that the genre's change, but Classic remains the same. When's the last time somebody actually did "Werewolves"?

    And what's with this "Alpha" business?!

    When we began, the "Alpha" was just the spokesperson for the Wolves. The upcoming Classic game gives the "Alpha" special abilities.

    What about the "Vigilante?" Is this role still considered part of the core "Classic" rules?

    Does anybody know what happened to the following people: Lucky, Death, your friend the Reaper, Atreyu the Masked Llama.
    Last edited by DungeonMaster77; 2015-05-20 at 09:45 AM.
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    The Original Narrator for the SMBG "Werewolf" game
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    LET CHAOS RULE: Turquoise bicycle shoe fins actualize radishes greenly!
    It's not about making money, it's about taking money; destroying the status quo. Because the status...is not quo.

    Games I run: Fallout: Great Plains (Redux)

  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    You can start now, if you'd like. I think ThePhantom's doing just fine, and perhaps having yours to look at will inspire others to give his a look also. Thank you.

    Edit: Gah! You edited while I wasn't looking.

    I'll have to answer these later, if no one else has before then. Gottagobye.
    Last edited by Lex-Kat; 2015-05-20 at 10:08 AM.

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  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Sounds good. I'll get the thread posted here once it is up.

    Edit - I put up the recruiting thread, but apparently it has to be approved or something.
    Last edited by DungeonMaster77; 2015-05-20 at 03:18 PM.
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    The Original Narrator for the SMBG "Werewolf" game
    WEREWOLF CENTRAL
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    LET CHAOS RULE: Turquoise bicycle shoe fins actualize radishes greenly!
    It's not about making money, it's about taking money; destroying the status quo. Because the status...is not quo.

    Games I run: Fallout: Great Plains (Redux)

  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Straight out werewolves? I don't know. A few games recently including my just finished one have had werewolves as the enemy. Penguinators last year on April Fools did, and a few others. Not sure about classic having werewolves though.
    The theme for classic is really up to the narrator.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFT on quicktopic
    Oh no, Duck999 is a mason.

    How can I possibly suspect you of being a wolf now? :(

    :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Legato Endless View Post
    Duck: Mason. A really shifty mason, but a confirmed role nonetheless.

    Slii: Slii is town. He looks better than Duck even with that mason claim.

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    What is the current ruling for WW Classic, for the Devil being able to be in contact with the Werewolves? I did some research back in the original days and found that s/he did NOT have access, although later, was given contact/knowledge, although I don't know why. IMO, the Devil's role was to be EXACTLY like the Seer, but instead working for the Werewolves.
    Just a guess, but I believe it's in response to Devil's getting lynched by the wolves before they can get in contact with them, along with the Networking that has become too prevalent.

    But I know for certain that the Devil doesn't have to start in contact with the Wolves. That is optional, if I remember correctly.


    [Almost] Lastly, I've seen that the genre's change, but Classic remains the same. When's the last time somebody actually did "Werewolves"?
    Let's make this lastly.....

    And what's with this "Alpha" business?!

    When we began, the "Alpha" was just the spokesperson for the Wolves. The upcoming Classic game gives the "Alpha" special abilities.

    Most times, if the Alpha role is used at all, they get to hand-pick their team and usually has the additional ability to be Seer-Immune. The Seer sees them as Villagers, not wolves. I don't know when it began exactly, that'd take some research. The role has been used as such for a while now, at least since 2009, maybe earlier?

    What about the "Vigilante?" Is this role still considered part of the core "Classic" rules?
    Don't know this role? Is this the one where you get to attack one of those who killed you? I haven't seen it, except in live-action WW. If it was in the original games though, I think it should be considered Classic.

    As far as I know, the Classic Roles are: Seer, Fool, Baner, Devil, Wolves, Masons, and Villagers. Alpha might be optional, I think.


    Does anybody know what happened to the following people: Lucky, Death, your friend the Reaper, Atreyu the Masked Llama.
    I haven't seen Lucky (last activity: 23Aug10) or Death, your friend the Reaper (last activity: 18Jul14) since your last game. Atreyu the Masked Llama (last activity: 12May15) gets on from time to time, but was really busy with life last I knew.

    Lastly, I've seen that the genre's change, but Classic remains the same. When's the last time somebody actually did "Werewolves"?
    I believe Classic XVIII- Resurrection is the last game to be "Werewolves". It ran from 4Jan15 to 5Feb15.



    There is another thing that you might find useful (or not). Narrators often use a service called QuickTopic. It allows groups, such as the Wolves and Masons, to keep in touch without using the Playgrounds PMs. You create a QuickTopic, name it, and then send the link to all the players of said group. This is especially useful for Wolves with numbers more than 5, as it allows you to communicate with all of them with one post, rather than creating 2 or 3 () PMs constantly.
    Last edited by Lex-Kat; 2015-05-20 at 04:01 PM.

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  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by DungeonMaster77 View Post
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    Grats for a finished game!

    Okay, so you asked me to give it a week, and I wanted to know what you thought about me starting recruiting for WW Classic [Insert Next Roman Numeral Here] this Friday, but I am genuinely worried about the current narrator not being able to get his game off the ground first.

    What do you think?

    Edit:

    Just a quick question:

    What is the current ruling for WW Classic, for the Devil being able to be in contact with the Werewolves? I did some research back in the original days and found that s/he did NOT have access, although later, was given contact/knowledge, although I don't know why. IMO, the Devil's role was to be EXACTLY like the Seer, but instead working for the Werewolves.

    [Almost] Lastly, I've seen that the genre's change, but Classic remains the same. When's the last time somebody actually did "Werewolves"?

    And what's with this "Alpha" business?!

    When we began, the "Alpha" was just the spokesperson for the Wolves. The upcoming Classic game gives the "Alpha" special abilities.

    What about the "Vigilante?" Is this role still considered part of the core "Classic" rules?

    Does anybody know what happened to the following people: Lucky, Death, your friend the Reaper, Atreyu the Masked Llama.
    The last several games I've seen, the Devil does not start in contact with the wolves, but if they scry a wolf and convince them that they're the Devil, the wolves can give them their PMa and whatnot.

    I don't think anyone's run a basic Werewolves game since I joined in 2010; there's always been power roles of some kind.

    People mean different things when they say Alpha; like Lex said, sometimes it means they can handpick the other wolves. More often, it means the Seer will scry them as a Villager. It hasn't been a regular role in Classic, but there was a lot of demand for it at the end of the last game due to Sapo's Day 1 reveal strategy and the power of the network.

    Vigilante has not been standard to Classic.
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    I actually have two theories on why you're doing this, but neither make much sense and you would have to be insane to try them. It seems you are insane, which is great for my theories.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZarethG View Post
    I see your point, Internet Flea. However, I don't retract my assessment of your sanity.
    What kind of paranoid mind sees that as something else. ~ The Narrator, during Stranded in Space.


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  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Deleted the updated post and reposting here to be better noticed.



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  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    @Lex-Kat:

    Vigilante: Town killer role. Elemental was one in Mutineer's. Usually can kill someone every few nights. I'd say a vigilante is too strong for Classic.


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  10. - Top - End - #130
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Does anybody mind if I take the slot beginning on July 5, or is it already spoken for? I had an idea for a mage-college style game.


    Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Logic's Deathloop Mafia and Book Wombat's A Small Wager - A Practical Guide To Evil

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  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    It does happen to look free. I'm glad I won't be the only one doing that kind of thing since I'd like to play stuff like that myself.

    Speaking of, Lex if you could note that the game I'll be running is Core Component: New Terms that'd be great.

  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Phantom of the Opera Werewolf VIII: In Spaaace is now starting.
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Wow...okay.

    Well, that said, I propose the following rules clarification:

    The Devil is nothing but the Seer that works for the Wolves.

    As for the Alpha, yeah, for me, the whole Alpha powers thing is overbalanced. The whole purpose of the game is the informed minority versus the uninformed majority, with the villager balances coming from the Seer and the Masons. The Wolves know of each other, and the Devil has to figure out each side and help the wolves. If the Devil comes out with too much of an advantage, then it removes the balance that the Masons and Seer is supposed to have. Just my opinion, though this is how I will be running Classic.

    I'll have to check on that QuickTopic thing. That sounds hugely useful.
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    The Original Narrator for the SMBG "Werewolf" game
    WEREWOLF CENTRAL
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    LET CHAOS RULE: Turquoise bicycle shoe fins actualize radishes greenly!
    It's not about making money, it's about taking money; destroying the status quo. Because the status...is not quo.

    Games I run: Fallout: Great Plains (Redux)

  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    The last several Classics allowed PMs, and people wanted the Alpha because a Seer with PMs, completely accurate scries and a highly trustworthy list of town power roles is overpowering. I don't think anyone will miss the Alpha role since no PMs already solves that.

    Does that mean the Seer learns specific roles like 'Baner' or 'Mason', and not just 'town' or 'wolf'?
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    I actually have two theories on why you're doing this, but neither make much sense and you would have to be insane to try them. It seems you are insane, which is great for my theories.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZarethG View Post
    I see your point, Internet Flea. However, I don't retract my assessment of your sanity.
    What kind of paranoid mind sees that as something else. ~ The Narrator, during Stranded in Space.


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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    I would say that the Seer sees Wolf, Villager, Fool. It should be enough, with observation, to pick out masons from regular villagers once a scry is performed. That's the way the party game is played, anyways.
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    The Original Narrator for the SMBG "Werewolf" game
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    LET CHAOS RULE: Turquoise bicycle shoe fins actualize radishes greenly!
    It's not about making money, it's about taking money; destroying the status quo. Because the status...is not quo.

    Games I run: Fallout: Great Plains (Redux)

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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Assuming Devil-scry parity, that seems notably weak for the wolves, since that's basically 'we have a wolf who isn't networked until late'. If there is not Devil-scry parity, then the wolves get a notable boost because the Seer cannot make informed decisions in comparison.

  17. - Top - End - #137
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    DM77 is correct that the wolves don't typically start out knowing the Devil. It's more like the Masons not knowing the Seer until s/he finds them, both needing to prove who they are before they can be trusted.

    As for the Alpha, it's definitely not a necessity to bring along. But it's not really too OP. It just means there is one Wolf the Seer can't simply scry and point out to the Town. It makes him a little tougher to find and kill.

    And with the No PM rule, it makes the game more like the RL version, in that the Seer cannot contact those he's scried as Town, he must find a way to communicate in the open. Or hope the Baner will protect him if he outs himself in thread.

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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    My forumgoing is lacking until Tuesday. Sorry if I miss anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFT on quicktopic
    Oh no, Duck999 is a mason.

    How can I possibly suspect you of being a wolf now? :(

    :P
    Quote Originally Posted by Legato Endless View Post
    Duck: Mason. A really shifty mason, but a confirmed role nonetheless.

    Slii: Slii is town. He looks better than Duck even with that mason claim.

  19. - Top - End - #139
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Yeah, speaking of which, I will be travelling on this Thursday and Sunday (the 28th and 31st). I'll have my mobile device, but I can't guarantee anything.

    @C'nor: You have to understand: The Masons are a small group, no more than 1/10th the size of the entire group. Their benefit is negligable. The Seer was meant to bring balance to the fact that EVERY werewolf knows each other. The Devil does count as a werewolf, but can't know who is who because that makes it so the werewolves are even MORE informed.

    I *would* consider ruling that the Devil gets specifics to balance his inability to determine friend from foe, but that when seeing the Seer or Fool, he, too, only sees Fool.

    What do we think of that?
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    LET CHAOS RULE: Turquoise bicycle shoe fins actualize radishes greenly!
    It's not about making money, it's about taking money; destroying the status quo. Because the status...is not quo.

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  20. - Top - End - #140
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    I think that would be best; that way Devil can do claims to out the Baner or Masons like the Seer can for wolves.
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    I actually have two theories on why you're doing this, but neither make much sense and you would have to be insane to try them. It seems you are insane, which is great for my theories.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZarethG View Post
    I see your point, Internet Flea. However, I don't retract my assessment of your sanity.
    What kind of paranoid mind sees that as something else. ~ The Narrator, during Stranded in Space.


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  21. - Top - End - #141
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by DungeonMaster77 View Post
    @C'nor: You have to understand: The Masons are a small group, no more than 1/10th the size of the entire group. Their benefit is negligable. The Seer was meant to bring balance to the fact that EVERY werewolf knows each other. The Devil does count as a werewolf, but can't know who is who because that makes it so the werewolves are even MORE informed.
    I interject that you're not thinking about this from a design perspective. If the game needs balance, you can simply adjust the amount of wolves. The Seer exists to provide gameplay, and the balance is adjusted to compensate for him--not the other way around. That gameplay takes the form of of the Seer's choices, the wolves' attempts to avoid the seer, the seer's attempts to communicate his information and the wolves' attempts to miscommunicate it, the wolves' hunt for the seer, and so on. One places a Seer into a game when one decides that the value it adds from this gameplay is greater than the costs of a Seer: boring "Follow the Seer" days, limits on wolves' ability to play the long game, putting the fate of Town too much into the hands of one person, and so on. The Seer is very common because it adds a lot of gameplay for its great simplicity; more complex games are more likely to eschew or limit the Seer role to avoid its costs and allow their other sources of gameplay to shine. In our games, other roles such as the Alpha, Devil, and Fool compensate for the Seer's problems, and the Devil's piece of that equation is preventing any one Seer from living too long and dominating the game, by eventually finding both the Seer and the Baner. To not allow the Devil to find Town's powerroles is to remove one of the important balances keeping the Seer in check, and raises the risk of a runaway Seer game.

    As for the question of the Seer's scrying specifics and the role of the Masons, Masons are not an important part of the Seer balance equation, especially in a no-PM game. They exist to provide their own gameplay in the form of a town network to act against and be mistaken for the wolf network. So, whether the Seer can identify Masons is not very important; it is not the Seer's main function. I would choose to leave the Seer giving ambiguous "Villager" results rather than exact roles so that it is more difficult to identify the Fool.
    Last edited by Saposhiente; 2015-05-25 at 10:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grue Bait View Post
    Good game, guys. Sapo, you are just too good for this.
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    And by the way, your puzzle was one of the most interesting ones I've solved in a while. Kudos.
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  22. - Top - End - #142
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    I think you are underestimating the fact that this is how the game was run way before you or even I came around. DM77 was one of the first to bring Werewolf to this Forum. If he wishes to play the game the way it was played back in 2006, I think we should try it before assuming it won't work at all because we are not used to playing it that way.

    I personally would like to try it the way he suggests and sees how it goes. Considering that in recent years, with a Seer who can communicate via PM, if a Network can be formed they destroy the fun by taking over the Days as much as the Wolves rule the Nights. Those not connected with either, join with the Network and hope that it's not their day to be sacrificed to the Network Gods. Fun had by all, not exactly.

    As for what the Devil sees, the way I'm reading it is that the Devil Sees Wolf, Villager, Fool. Which is exactly what the Seer sees. This makes them completely equal, as neither can connect via PM to their group (Wolves/Masons). Though, this does make it so the Devil cannot communicate with the Wolves at all, whereas the Seer can communicate to the Village and hope the Baner protects them during the night. So really, the Seer comes out to be more powerful if there is no way the Devil can communicate to the Wolves.

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  23. - Top - End - #143
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    The Seer and Devil aren't supposed to be equal. The Seer is fundamentally more important regardless of how much detail you give to the Devil; really, the Seer is the most important role in Classic. Meanwhile, even if you give them equal power, they're not equal. Say for example that you remove the Fool result, so each receives only Villager or Wolf as results. The Seer is then just as powerful as before, and the Devil is a weaksauce hinderance to team Wolf, actually worse than just a vanilla wolf. Occasionally giving them a "this guy might be the guy we want to kill" only helps the Devil somewhat, and once the Seer inevitably outs themselves, they're once again worthless.

    What can happen if there is a weak Devil is an open network--indeed, people have found that optimal strategy with no devil, alpha, or fool is for the Seer to claim D1. The baner protects them every night, the wolves have no way of finding the Baner except killing at random and hoping, and the Town may be best off not actually lynching anyone unless the Seer finds them guilty--just to ensure that the wolves have no help finding the Baner. Then on the day after the Baner dies the Seer announces their innocent scries and Town gets cracking with 1/3-1/2 of the wolves dead and twice to three times as many Masons as there should be. The Fool will prevent Town from starting such an extreme strategy on Day 1, but a weak Devil makes find-the-baner races so much more painful to the wolves than they should be. Indeed, in such scenarios, the Devil is useless as they cannot tell the wolves anything they don't already know.

    I know that these are the rules as he understood them in 2006, that he's brought WW here though he's hardly the inventor of it. Yes, the rules work. My point is that this rule isn't like the PM rule that changes the nature of the game, but simply an improvement: the game is more stable and less likely to devolve into Seer tedium with a Devil that's actually useful.

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    Good game, guys. Sapo, you are just too good for this.
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    And by the way, your puzzle was one of the most interesting ones I've solved in a while. Kudos.
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  24. - Top - End - #144
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Which is what I said with my last sentence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lex-Kat View Post
    So really, the Seer comes out to be more powerful if there is no way the Devil can communicate to the Wolves.
    I agree, there needs to be a way for the Devil to communicate with his flock, or he is weaker than the Seer, and fairly useless to the Wolves.

    3 choices:

    1. The Devil begins the game knowing the Wolves.
    2. The PM rule doesn't apply to the Devil. (Bad rule, in my opinion.)
    3. At a point the Devil scries one of his Wolves, he is then put in contact with them.
    4. Or, you could make it so the Devil is immune to Night Kills, and is then placed in contact with the Wolves.


    So that'd be 4 ways to make the Devil have a chance to communicate with the Wolves.

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  25. - Top - End - #145
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    I'm not talking about how the Devil will connect; that's not at all what my post above discussed. If necessary, he can just out himself. I'm talking about making the Devil useful, and allowing him to fill his important role in Seer balance. A Devil that can't scry powerroles is just a disconnected wolf, and giving him the same results as the Seer lets him get information that has a 50% chance of being useful and that the wolves were likely to learn anyway. The Devil must be able to learn exact role, especially Baner, to be of real help.

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  26. - Top - End - #146
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    It would be a while before I can organise a game or several, due to RL over the next month, but what would people think of a One Night Werewolf series being run on the forum?

    I'm thinking it could be episodic as when played fo' realsies, with different roles introduced or removed according to familiarity and experience and feedback, but also potentially a league format, where the role-set is continuous across a number of rounds with the same or similar players, with points awarded for victory in a given round.*

    Support? Criticism? Jeering and throwing fruit?

    * minimum number of rounds to have status, results aren't counted until player's third loss/first win, different points for winning as Town/Pack/Other, potential bonus points for particular actions, etc.

  27. - Top - End - #147
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    I'm not familiar with the specific rules of "One Night Werewolf" so I can't comment until that's explained.

  28. - Top - End - #148
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen Nij View Post
    It would be a while before I can organise a game or several, due to RL over the next month, but what would people think of a One Night Werewolf series being run on the forum?

    I'm thinking it could be episodic as when played fo' realsies, with different roles introduced or removed according to familiarity and experience and feedback, but also potentially a league format, where the role-set is continuous across a number of rounds with the same or similar players, with points awarded for victory in a given round.*

    Support? Criticism? Jeering and throwing fruit?

    * minimum number of rounds to have status, results aren't counted until player's third loss/first win, different points for winning as Town/Pack/Other, potential bonus points for particular actions, etc.
    It could work, though I feel that game may need a bit more time for discussion than a normal game. Since discussion is part of the whole thing.

    Sorry Ramsus, but I am not well-versed enough to explain it.
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    Oh no, Duck999 is a mason.

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  29. - Top - End - #149
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    Quote Originally Posted by Duck999 View Post
    It could work, though I feel that game may need a bit more time for discussion than a normal game. Since discussion is part of the whole thing.

    Sorry Ramsus, but I am not well-versed enough to explain it.
    I was thinking that a game cycle would run something like
    Week A: recruit, confirm, give roles, ensure understanding.
    Weekend A: send in actions, work out action effects.
    Week B: claim, discuss, counterclaim, confuse, debate, accuse, debate, argue, counterclaim, accuse, exasperate, discuss, repeat.
    Weekend B: collect votes, work out lynch, announce results.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramsus View Post
    I'm not familiar with the specific rules of "One Night Werewolf" so I can't comment until that's explained.
    Basically, most/all players have a role and associated power. These powers are enacted in an explicit order as the Night phase, e.g. Werewolves identify each other, Minion identifies Werewolves, Seer inspects choice of roles, ..., Insomniac inspects their current role, end of sequence. The Day phase consists of discussion and debate and voting for the lynch. Town attempts to uncover facts and target Wolves, Wolves attempt to obfuscate facts and direct suspicion onto Town, various Others attempt their shenanigans.
    During the Night phase, players are variously mixing up, learning or altering the role that they or other players actually have at that time. During the Day phase, players are trying to 1. figure out whether their role has changed, and if so, to what, and 2. meet their win condition. Then the lynch happens, they find out who they are now, and whether they won.
    Various roles and powers include, but are certainly not limited to:
    • Minion: knows who Werewolves are, is on Werewolf team. Werewolves win if Minion lynched, Minion wins if Town lynched
    • Prince: immune to lynching
    • Seer: can look at one active role or two nonactive roles
    • Robber: swaps with one active role, and inspects it
    • Insomniac: inspects their active role at the end of night
    • Tanner: if lynched, becomes sole winner
    • Hunter: if lynched, takes down the player they voted also

    Allows for much quicker games than long-form standard Werewolf, because the entire game consists of a single night-day-lynch cycle, and doesn't require elimination of players. Everybody can input into the final result. I like it because it requires a double layer of deduction - not only are you working out who's on your team, you've got to work out what team that is.
    Last edited by Citizen Nij; 2015-05-26 at 06:07 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #150
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    Default Re: Werewolf Central X: Important WW information goes here - READ OPENING POSTS!

    @Saposhiente - No, I did not invent it, but I have read the original research for the purpose behind the game. The ENTIRE point of this game is the uninformed majority versus the informed minority. That said, to make the game "fun" several roles were added to the fantasy version called "Are You a Werewolf." The problem is that a werewolf can claim Seer D1 as well. And he can even point to one of his brethren to get a confirmed kill and "confirm" a villager is safe. For others, he can claim ignorance. The Devil can ALWAYS claim Seer D1 as well, and get exactly the same information. The possibilities are endless. All I know is that in a RL game, the Devil never got anything in the way of special communications with the Wolves, and neither did the Seer. IMHO, from what I've heard here, it's all this PMing groups business that got WAY out of hand and has flat-out ruined games. Please try to tell me I'm wrong. A friend in one of the games emailed me a screen-capture of a message chain for on of the Classic games. PMing has been misused and abused, again, IMHO. The ONLY reason I had PMing in the beginning was so that the wolves could contact me as to who to do night kills, and the Baner could PM me as to who to protect, and the Seer and Devil could see who they wanted (of course the Fool getting whatever fancy I took at the moment). You want to run Werewolf however you want, that's fine, but Classic was ALWAYS intended to mimic the RL party game. Lucky and I had EXTENSIVE conversations about this exact thing, especially after he (I'm pretty sure it was he that was approved to post the original WW CENTRAL Sticky) and some others Re-Started Classic.

    Look, I'm not trying to pick a fight, and I'm not trying to ruin anybody's fun. What I am trying to do is keep WW Classic the game it was always intended to be. You want to run all of that other stuff on Werewolf? Go ahead. Leave Classic to the purists who want a fun game where a player gets pointed at first day because he was a werewolf in the last game, where they can lynch the Seer or Baner (with groans of agony), where the Wolves sweat when they realized one of them has been made, and begin to jump on the bandwagon to save their own hides in voting for a fellow wolf, and the Devil quietly manipulates the whole thing to help the wolves win in the end. *THAT* is the game I originally brought here 9 years ago while I was deploying to Afghanistan. *THAT* is what we had intended this to be.

    Sorry for the rant.

    That said, the only thing I can conceivably do to make it any more balanced, without giving the game to the wolves, is let the Devil know who the wolves are, but not vice versa. I can see where he/she would know who works for him/her but not vice versa.

    How does that work for everyone?

    The problem with this whole conversation is that the Devil's whole point of being in the game is to give more flair to the wolves. In the original game, it is Werewolves, Villagers and Seer, with the wolves comprising 25% of the total population. Don't you see? The Seer's whole job is to be the balance for Team Villager! When you add in the Baner, it doesn't do much because he will likely only protect himself until he is sure he is protecting the right person. We used to run it with the Baner being unable to protect himself, but changed our minds around WW III or IV, before we had to differentiate between Classic and non-Classic. When you add the Masons (who are only 1/10 of the population, and can't be used unless the number of players can support them), they provide a touch more power to the villagers because they are two villagers who know that each other is safe. Any keen observer will notice them working together and then accuse them of being wolves. With Masons MUST come the Devil role. The Devil must then be brought in to steer votes towards the villagers, specifically the Seer.

    Sorry to beat the dead horse here, but the whole idea of PM'ing behind the scenes for reasons other than discussing who the werewolves are going to kill at night is counter to the kind of game Classic was intended to be.

    @Alarra and Zeb the Troll: Didn't we have this same conversation years ago about this role?
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