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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Shardmind and Deva Conversion 4e->5e

    So I found my 4e handbooks and decided to convert a few races my friends liked in 4e to 5e standards. Sadly I don't have the players guide with me, so I'm running on some remembered knowledge.
    Spoiler: Sharmind
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    Shardminds: +2 Int,
    Size: Medium
    Speed: 30 feet
    Languages: Common, undercommon, and one other of your choice.
    Telepathy: You can speak telepathically to anything within 15 feet of you that has a language. They cannot speak back to you telepathically.
    Living construct: Do not need to eat, drink, breath, or sleep. Must trance for 4 hours to gain benefits of long rests. You are aware of everything going on around you within 30 feet.
    Age: You do not age like other races, you are a living construct.
    Shard Swarm: You begin to loosen your shard form. As an action you can move any in any direction at half your speed. Any creature you pass by while doing this takes 1d4 piercing damage. Does not trigger attacks of opportunity. You have to take a short or long rest before using the ability again. (Will work more on damage and/or just making people roll a reflex save)

    Subraces:
    Crystalline Sharmind: +1 Wis, You know the mending cantrip. (I'm unsure but this made sense since it's based or inorganic crystals.)
    Biotic Shardmind: +1 Cha, you are proficient in the Insight Skill (Natural born empaths)

    Spoiler: Deva
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    Deva
    Stats: +2 Int, +1 Wis
    Size: Medium
    Speed: 30 feet
    Language: Common, Celestial, and one other of your choice.
    Resistance to Necrotic and Radiant damage
    Advantage on saving throws against being magically frightened.
    Proficiency in History checks
    Memory of a thousand lifetimes
    -You may add 1d6 to the result of a attack roll, saving throw, skill check, or ability check that you do not like. You must use a long rest before using this ability again.

    Edit: Decided to add in a conversion attempt for Deva (a friend really wanted to make one), and if I get bored enough I might try to convert a whole bunch of 4e races.
    Edit 2: Removed Shardmind Subraces, changed shard swarm from slashing to piercing, and removed enemy disadvantage. Added radiant resistance and frightened saving throws to Deva.
    Edit 3: Added Subraces to Shardminds, based off organic and inorganic gems (Biotic was the best I got for the organic gems. Unless people prefer Nuclear.)
    Edit 4: Made Shardswarm a short and long rest instead of just long that turns into two long rests if you got hit in the swarm. Made it a one round main action (you would reform proper on your next turn). Removed giving enemies advantage on attacks with blunt weapons against you while using the ability. Still need to reconsider it's damage potential (I want this to be more utility than damaging, but flying gem shards hurt in my mind.)

    Thoughts? Comments? I'm honestly unsure if this works well or not.
    Last edited by Ralanr; 2015-02-15 at 01:27 AM.

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    Default Re: Shardmind Conversion 4e->5e

    Which PHB are you missing? If you need access to 5e material, perhaps I could be of some assistance? I've got all the books on hand.
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    Default Re: Shardmind Conversion 4e->5e

    The 5e players guide, monster Manual and DMG. First two I left on campus, and I don't have the DMG

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    Default Re: Shardmind and Deva Conversion 4e->5e

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralanr View Post
    Spoiler: Sharmind
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    Shardminds: +2 Int
    Size: Medium
    Speed: 30 feet
    Languages: Common, underdark (or is it undercommon? Whatever it is, Drow probably speak it) and one other of your choice.
    It's Undercommon. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Shardminds aren't indigenous to the Underdark.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralanr View Post
    Telepathy: You can speak telepathically to anything within five feet of you that has a language. They cannot speak back to you telepathically.
    Telepathy is already a spell in the game. However, it's 8th level, so it'd be a bit too op for a character. I dunno, I don't like how magic gets used in 5e, but I don't see any way around this. It's a shame, since telepathy is definitely intrinsic to the Shardmind

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralanr View Post
    Living construct: Do not need to eat, drink, or sleep. Must trance for 4 hours to gain benefits of long rests. You are aware of everything going on around you within 30 feet.
    Yup, checked with the UA Warforged (pretty much the only other PC construct so far) and it seems to work. Don't forget about the breathing, though. (As in, you don't need to breath, you're made of crazy psionic crystals.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralanr View Post
    Shard Swarm: As an action you begin to loosen your shard form, giving enemy's using piercing or slashing weapons disadvantage, and blunt weapons advantage until your next turn. You can move half your speed in any direction as a free action. Any creature you pass by while doing this takes 1d4 slashing damage. (Basically slashing teleport). You reform proper on your next turn.
    OK, I think that's a bit op. Don't forget, 5e characters don't start off as pre-made tanks like in 4e, they have less ability to inflict and avoid damage. Perhaps if you drop the disadvantage and change slashing to piercing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralanr View Post
    Sub types: Thought Builder and Shard Slayer

    Thought builder: +1 Wis, telepathy range increased to 30 feet.

    Shard Slayer: +1 Cha, able to bypass psychic resistance. (This is probably broken. But it makes sense to me since the shard slayers go out and kill other shardminds. I'll take suggestions on better choices)
    The term is subraces. Personally, I don't think the Shardmind needs them, and the Thoughtbuilder and Shardslayer would work best as fluff. Still, if you really want them, I suggest you focus on lore to figure out what should differentiate them. What drives all Shardminds is their quest to rebuild the Living Gate, and their disagreement on how to achieve that is what separates their society. Correct me if I'm wrong (it's been a while since I read the description), but the Thoughtbuilders think all the Shardminds should follow their own plan to rebuild the Gate and work together to achieve that. The Shardslayers think the best way to rebuild the Gate is to destroy other fragments of it, including Shardminds. Which doesn't make sense to me, personally, but to each their own, I guess…

    Anyway, on to the Devas. Firstly, I think I should point out the Aasimar (upon which the Deva was based) has already been converted in the DMG as an example of how to create a race. They gain +2 to Charisma and +1 to Wisdom, Darkvision, resistance to radiant and necrotic damage and access to a few spells (the light cantrip, lesser restoration by 3rd level and daylight by 5th level). You may want to take this into account when creating the Deva. Anyway…

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralanr View Post
    Spoiler: Deva
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    Deva
    Stats: +2 Int, +1 Wis
    Size: Medium
    Speed: 30 feet
    Language: Common, Celestial, and one other of your choice.
    Resistance to Necrotic damage
    So far, so good. May I suggest adding resistance to radiant damage, as shown by the Aasimar, to reflect their divine origins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralanr View Post
    Advantage on saving throws against curses (Again, no book on me at this time. So this ability is subject to change based on it not making sense)
    Yeah, you're right, that doesn't make sense. It could be an advantage on saving throws against being magically charmed or frightened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralanr View Post
    Proficiency in History checks
    Special ability: Memory of a thousand lifetimes
    -You may add 1d6 to the result of a attack roll, saving throw, skill check, or ability check that you do not like. You must use a long rest before using this ability again.
    What do you mean by "special ability"? 5e doesn't really have any sort of racial moves or special abilities.

    All in all, while these races aren't perfect, they're pretty good for someone without any 5e source material on hand
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    I greatly suspect that Lovecraft had an unfortunate incident with seafood to produce the creatures he did.
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    The only way he could shoot himself in the foot more is if he literally shot himself in the foot.


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    Default Re: Shardmind and Deva Conversion 4e->5e

    Quote Originally Posted by ReturnOfTheKing View Post
    It's Undercommon. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Shardminds aren't indigenous to the Underdark.



    Telepathy is already a spell in the game. However, it's 8th level, so it'd be a bit too op for a character. I dunno, I don't like how magic gets used in 5e, but I don't see any way around this. It's a shame, since telepathy is definitely intrinsic to the Shardmind



    Yup, checked with the UA Warforged (pretty much the only other PC construct so far) and it seems to work. Don't forget about the breathing, though. (As in, you don't need to breath, you're made of crazy psionic crystals.)



    OK, I think that's a bit op. Don't forget, 5e characters don't start off as pre-made tanks like in 4e, they have less ability to inflict and avoid damage. Perhaps if you drop the disadvantage and change slashing to piercing?



    The term is subraces. Personally, I don't think the Shardmind needs them, and the Thoughtbuilder and Shardslayer would work best as fluff. Still, if you really want them, I suggest you focus on lore to figure out what should differentiate them. What drives all Shardminds is their quest to rebuild the Living Gate, and their disagreement on how to achieve that is what separates their society. Correct me if I'm wrong (it's been a while since I read the description), but the Thoughtbuilders think all the Shardminds should follow their own plan to rebuild the Gate and work together to achieve that. The Shardslayers think the best way to rebuild the Gate is to destroy other fragments of it, including Shardminds. Which doesn't make sense to me, personally, but to each their own, I guess…

    Anyway, on to the Devas. Firstly, I think I should point out the Aasimar (upon which the Deva was based) has already been converted in the DMG as an example of how to create a race. They gain +2 to Charisma and +1 to Wisdom, Darkvision, resistance to radiant and necrotic damage and access to a few spells (the light cantrip, lesser restoration by 3rd level and daylight by 5th level). You may want to take this into account when creating the Deva. Anyway…



    So far, so good. May I suggest adding resistance to radiant damage, as shown by the Aasimar, to reflect their divine origins?



    Yeah, you're right, that doesn't make sense. It could be an advantage on saving throws against being magically charmed or frightened?



    What do you mean by "special ability"? 5e doesn't really have any sort of racial moves or special abilities.

    All in all, while these races aren't perfect, they're pretty good for someone without any 5e source material on hand
    Shardmind
    1. in 4e they have "deep speech" as one of their racial languages. I just assumed that was undercommon.
    2. Crap really? I can't see a way around that either. If 5 feet is too OP then I don't know what to do there.
    3. Breathing, got it.
    4. Originally I was going to make it piercing, but then I had a thought about some of your pieces getting stuck in things. Other than that I'd like to point out that this ability can hurt allies if you decide to move through them. I'll change it to piercing, though I'm not sure how this makes them less OP. I think I'll also make it so if you get hit before you reform on your next turn, you have to go through two 8 hour rest periods before doing it again.
    5. I only wanted to use subraces because in 4e they get +2 Wis OR +2 Cha along with their Intelligence. Though the abilities did seem broken (Bypassing a resistance type or 30 foot telepathy? Broken no?). You are correct on the origins of the Thought Builders and Shard Slayers. Not sure what their +1 should be now though.

    Devas
    1. I'll work that in. Probably get rid of the special ability
    2. I'll go with being frightened.
    3. Honestly I keep looking at the abilities in 4e and wondering "How do I convert those?". Though that is silly because not every race needs an on active power to use. That being said I do like the Deva's "add 1d6 to any roll you don't like" ability, but we'll see how that goes.

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    Default Re: Shardmind and Deva Conversion 4e->5e

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralanr View Post
    Shardmind
    1. in 4e they have "deep speech" as one of their racial languages. I just assumed that was undercommon.
    Language is a setting issue, for 5th Ed. you probably want Undercommon, but there is no reason not to use Deep Speech as its name.

    2. Crap really? I can't see a way around that either. If 5 feet is too OP then I don't know what to do there.
    3. Breathing, got it.
    5 feet radius telepathy isn't overpowered. It is all but pointless. You might as well just whisper because the recipient is right next to you.

    What ReturnOfTheKing forgot to mention about the Telepathy spell is that it has Unlimited range as long as both targets are on the same plane. It is pretty much a souped up Sending and arguably one of the worst uses for an 8th level spell slot. I personally would drop it down to a 5th level spell in any game I decided to run, if I wanted to see it being used at all.

    4. Originally I was going to make it piercing, but then I had a thought about some of your pieces getting stuck in things. Other than that I'd like to point out that this ability can hurt allies if you decide to move through them. I'll change it to piercing, though I'm not sure how this makes them less OP. I think I'll also make it so if you get hit before you reform on your next turn, you have to go through two 8 hour rest periods before doing it again.
    Shard Swarm is incredibly clunky and not quite true to the original. I would change it to an action teleport available once per short rest. Maybe also causing some sort of penalty to the enemies next to the area you leave.

    5. I only wanted to use subraces because in 4e they get +2 Wis OR +2 Cha along with their Intelligence. Though the abilities did seem broken (Bypassing a resistance type or 30 foot telepathy? Broken no?). You are correct on the origins of the Thought Builders and Shard Slayers. Not sure what their +1 should be now though.
    Don't stick to the old edition's mechanical conventions. That is not how it works.

    Devas
    1. I'll work that in. Probably get rid of the special ability
    2. I'll go with being frightened.
    3. Honestly I keep looking at the abilities in 4e and wondering "How do I convert those?". Though that is silly because not every race needs an on active power to use. That being said I do like the Deva's "add 1d6 to any roll you don't like" ability, but we'll see how that goes.
    The "special ability" is fine. Most races have something unique like that. If you should get rid of anything is calling it "Special Ability: memory of a Thousand Lifetimes", instead of simply "Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes".
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    Default Re: Shardmind and Deva Conversion 4e->5e

    Give them subraces, instead of giving the player a choice between your secondary ability score increase split them up into sub races.

    Shardmind
    +2 Int

    +1 Wis = Pearl Shardmind

    +1 Cha = Diamond Shardmind

    Then you can make some different types of shardminds, pull in some inspiration from racial feats and such.

    You can do this with the Deva too.

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    Default Re: Shardmind and Deva Conversion 4e->5e

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusaderJoe View Post
    Give them subraces, instead of giving the player a choice between your secondary ability score increase split them up into sub races.

    Shardmind
    +2 Int

    +1 Wis = Pearl Shardmind

    +1 Cha = Diamond Shardmind

    Then you can make some different types of shardminds, pull in some inspiration from racial feats and such.

    You can do this with the Deva too.
    Tried doing that, couldn't figure out abilities to really differentiate the two subraces. Might work more on it later.

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    Default Re: Shardmind and Deva Conversion 4e->5e

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    What ReturnOfTheKing forgot to mention about the Telepathy spell is that it has Unlimited range as long as both targets are on the same plane. It is pretty much a souped up Sending and arguably one of the worst uses for an 8th level spell slot. I personally would drop it down to a 5th level spell in any game I decided to run, if I wanted to see it being used at all.
    Thanks, missed that! OK, maybe you could reduce it to 10 feet. What slot would that be worth?

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    The "special ability" is fine. Most races have something unique like that. If you should get rid of anything is calling it "Special Ability: memory of a Thousand Lifetimes", instead of simply "Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes".
    That's what I meant. My bad, should've been more specific.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    I greatly suspect that Lovecraft had an unfortunate incident with seafood to produce the creatures he did.
    Quote Originally Posted by GAAD View Post
    Well, I assume that you assume that she assumes that he assumes that everyone assumes that everyone else is a hipster.
    Quote Originally Posted by GorinichSerpant View Post
    The only way he could shoot himself in the foot more is if he literally shot himself in the foot.


    Kudos to smuchmuch for the fantastic 11th Doctor avatar!

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    Default Re: Shardmind and Deva Conversion 4e->5e

    Quote Originally Posted by ReturnOfTheKing View Post

    How're the races coming?
    Added Subraces.

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    Default Re: Shardmind and Deva Conversion 4e->5e

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralanr View Post
    Added Subraces.
    Excellent! Looks great so far, keep up the good work
    My shameful creation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honest Tiefling View Post
    I greatly suspect that Lovecraft had an unfortunate incident with seafood to produce the creatures he did.
    Quote Originally Posted by GAAD View Post
    Well, I assume that you assume that she assumes that he assumes that everyone assumes that everyone else is a hipster.
    Quote Originally Posted by GorinichSerpant View Post
    The only way he could shoot himself in the foot more is if he literally shot himself in the foot.


    Kudos to smuchmuch for the fantastic 11th Doctor avatar!

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    Default Re: Shardmind and Deva Conversion 4e->5e

    Quote Originally Posted by ReturnOfTheKing View Post
    Thanks, missed that! OK, maybe you could reduce it to 10 feet. What slot would that be worth?
    It would be worth nothing at all. Even the Message cantrip has a range of 120 feet (that is essentially what telepathy is, that cantrip, minus an action cost, most creatures with telepathy also have it that range to boot).

    Give them a range 30' telepathy like the Great Old One warlock gets.
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    Default Re: Shardmind and Deva Conversion 4e->5e

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    It would be worth nothing at all. Even the Message cantrip has a range of 120 feet (that is essentially what telepathy is, that cantrip, minus an action cost, most creatures with telepathy also have it that range to boot).

    Give them a range 30' telepathy like the Great Old One warlock gets.
    I think I'll give them 15. Honestly I don't want them to have an ability that is the exact same as a class ability.

    At least not consciously.

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    Default Re: Shardmind and Deva Conversion 4e->5e

    Personally, I couldn't care less for the Deva, but hey.
    I think you did pretty well with the Shardmind conversion though. One thing I'd like to say: the shard swarm is kinda...meh. It's kinda pointless. 1d4 is the damage of an unarmed attack, kinda pathetic. You restrict your movement to 1/2, and you can still be attacked. Not to mention an effective 24 hour cool down? There's the slight bonus of being resistant to one type of damage (which is really quite powerful), but is offset by it's vulnerability.
    There are a few ways to make it a bit more useful. One: you could explicitly say that this movement allows you to move through small cracks in doorways and such; as well as explicitly saying that you don't provoke attacks of opportunity for moving in this way. (Makes sense as most creatures don't expect their opponent to turn into a swarm of floating crystals and move past them)
    Two: You could, instead of damage, have it force some sort of save (perhaps dexterity or wisdom), or have all creatures you pass through to treat all their targets other than you as having concealment until you reform. (They can't see them past your swarm) You don't provoke attack of opportunities while moving in this form, but they can attack you as normal.
    Three: Require a short rest, as opposed to a long rest. (If nothing else is changed, this doesn't matter too much, as the ability does nothing, save maybe from protecting you from a fatal blow of a piercing weapon [and even then, you're still provoking AoO for running] )
    Four: Say that you are virtually untargetable until you reform, but the square where you are can be targeted by an AoE ability, and you'd take the regular damage.

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    Default Re: Shardmind and Deva Conversion 4e->5e

    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    Personally, I couldn't care less for the Deva, but hey.
    I think you did pretty well with the Shardmind conversion though. One thing I'd like to say: the shard swarm is kinda...meh. It's kinda pointless. 1d4 is the damage of an unarmed attack, kinda pathetic. You restrict your movement to 1/2, and you can still be attacked. Not to mention an effective 24 hour cool down? There's the slight bonus of being resistant to one type of damage (which is really quite powerful), but is offset by it's vulnerability.
    There are a few ways to make it a bit more useful. One: you could explicitly say that this movement allows you to move through small cracks in doorways and such; as well as explicitly saying that you don't provoke attacks of opportunity for moving in this way. (Makes sense as most creatures don't expect their opponent to turn into a swarm of floating crystals and move past them)
    Two: You could, instead of damage, have it force some sort of save (perhaps dexterity or wisdom), or have all creatures you pass through to treat all their targets other than you as having concealment until you reform. (They can't see them past your swarm) You don't provoke attack of opportunities while moving in this form, but they can attack you as normal.
    Three: Require a short rest, as opposed to a long rest. (If nothing else is changed, this doesn't matter too much, as the ability does nothing, save maybe from protecting you from a fatal blow of a piercing weapon [and even then, you're still provoking AoO for running] )
    Four: Say that you are virtually untargetable until you reform, but the square where you are can be targeted by an AoE ability, and you'd take the regular damage.
    So far it seems the Shardswarm has been the most difficult to really convert. Personally I enjoy the concept of this ability doing damage more for logic than for optimal reasons, since you have a bunch of sharp pointy gems and crystals floating right through you. The damage is a bit weak though, I didn't have my book with me to compare other abilities at the time of creation, I should probably increase the damage and make it scale with level, but not sure if I should make it progress like the dragonborn breath attack or otherwise (I don't think it should do more damage since it's a teleport).

    I'll probably get rid of the advantage and disadvantage, it's too wordy. Might also make it so you reform where you land. I'll probably ask my DM for some more advice and I'll take any advice you all give into consideration. Thank you though for reminding me of Attack of Opportunity, I completely forgot about that and it would be bad if that triggered it.

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