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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    Thank you for this and the Priest handbook. Did/Can you do one for Bards? (Please )

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Sun Gnome View Post
    Thank you for this and the Priest handbook. Did/Can you do one for Bards? (Please )
    You're welcome, but thank Yorrin for the Cleric guide! I'm afraid I shan't be doing a bard guide. It's a labour of love, and I don't love bards half as much as I love druids. But I think Daishain has a bard guide in his collection of useful links. I don't know how good it is; seems to me we get better quality handbooks on this forum than on the WotC forums.
    My D&D 5th ed. Druid Handbook - My D&D 5th ed. Campaign Wiki

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Question Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    Hey, would be great if you updated the guide to also include spells from "Elemental Evil - Player's Companion"
    Last edited by dxlr8r; 2015-03-20 at 03:56 PM.

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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    Quote Originally Posted by dxlr8r View Post
    Hey, would be great if you updated the guide to also include spells from "Elemental Evil - Player's Companion"
    I didn't include them in the Quickspell Guide on purpose. There's no guarantee the EEPC will be used for play, and even if it is, it's noted that the DM can restrict access to spells. The Quickspell Guide needs to be as simple as I can make it, so a lot of ifs and alternatives are no good. I guess I could make a QSG that includes EEPC spells, but as new supplements come out, it will become a nightmare to keep one for each and one for every combination. I'd rather not start down that road.
    But I've analyzed all the cantrips and spells in post 5, so you can find them there. And the races are in post one, though you may have noticed those already.

    Thanks for bringing it up and giving me the opportunity to explain my reasoning.
    My D&D 5th ed. Druid Handbook - My D&D 5th ed. Campaign Wiki

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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    A most awesome guide to Druids, also my favorite Class.

    THANK YOU!

    Do you know of any Guides/Handbooks for the Sorcerer Class?

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    @E’Tallitnics: Thank you! I'm glad you enjoy it.
    As for sorcerer guides, Daishain lists two in his very useful meta-thread. I haven't read them, but there they are for what it's worth.
    My D&D 5th ed. Druid Handbook - My D&D 5th ed. Campaign Wiki

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    A great guide, thank you for all the time you put in this!

    I was wondering, I didn't see the ''spell sniper'' feat in the feat section. Did you accidently skip it, or did you consider it not that important when you created the guide?

    I would actualy like to have your opinion on it. The spell range boost for attack based spells seems pretty interesting for a land druid who wants to focus on pure spellcasting.

    Thank alot!

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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    @ Doldrum: Thanks for the praise! I'm glad you've found the guide useful.
    As for spell sniper, off the top of my head I can't think of a non-cantrip druid spell that makes ranged attack rolls. I don't think there is one in the PHB druid list at all, though I'm happy to receive corrections. Druid cantrips are mediocre at best, so much so I wouldn't try to shore up their combat potency with a feat.
    All in all, it seems a feat for warlocks and sorcerers more than for druids.
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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    Hey there.
    You seem to rate the EE spells pretty poorly, and I wanted to ask about that. I'm a land druid (grasslands - level 2), and looking at Ice Knife in particular as a pretty good damage spell. It does less AoE than Thunderwave, but more direct damage than anything on the druid spell list. It is a bit annoying that half the damage is an attack roll, and the other half is a dex save, but overall seems pretty good.
    Comparing them to sorcerer level 1 spells (in a conversation with our party sorc), I see:
    Magic Missile is 10.5 straight up
    Burning hands is AoE 10.5 save to 5
    Ice knife is attack roll for 5.5, plus AoE for 7 (dex negates)

    The druid AoE is Thunderwave, which is 9 (save for half) with knockback.

    So, the question here is, what am I missing? Not just Ice Knife, but the other EE spells too. Are they really sub-par?

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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    @ Kajorma: I was a little terse there, wasn't I? Ice Knife does get one word of praise, and that's in its rarity - direct damage for druid spells isn't so common. But my reason for disliking the spell is two-parts. Number one is save for nothing and miss for nothing. And number two is inflexible targeting.

    The save for nothing is pretty self-explanatory. You can deal unreliable damage (even AoE) without expending spell slots. I grant you that at level 2, this isn't quite so horrible - the damage is about twice what you can get with thunderclap, and at range. On the other hand, your spell slots are all the more precious now. I'd want some certainty (or at least much better odds) into the equation if I am to expend my precious spell slots and spell prepared. If you feel lucky or like the chancyness, you may not see this as much of a downside, of course.

    The targeting method also makes it less useful than it could be. Since you have to target a creature and make it the centre, to get someone caught in the cold damage, they would have to be bunched up quite tightly just to get two targets into the AoE. Less than that and you're rather wasting the potential of AoE damage, I think. In addition, many cases make it useful to centre an AoE spell on the area behind the enemy line of fighting, catching several of them and none of your allies.

    All in all, there's too much annoyance for me in this spell to be worth considering without some extenuating circumstance. Thanks for taking the time to ask!
    My D&D 5th ed. Druid Handbook - My D&D 5th ed. Campaign Wiki

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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    Thank you!
    That actually clears this up for me. I did have a pretty major success with Thunderwave so far (though, that was because most of my targets didn't save, and I rolled well) so I can see that the half damage on failure is still a pretty good thing.
    I may keep Ice Knife around anyway just because its cool, (heh heh) but I'll probably dump it when I feel I really need that spot back.

    I have to agree that Goodberries are amazing. Our party barbarian was making fun of the spell, but after a few sessions its pretty apparent how potent the thing is. My wife is playing a druid as well (moon) so we are going into our adventures with just tons of the things.

    Thank you, by the way for the guide. It's helped a lot in picking where I want to go with my druid.

    One thing that would be really awesome would be a breakdown of the wildshapes at various levels. For now, it seems that my biggest combat options are Boar and Wolf, and that for Moon Druids, it's the Brown Bear (2 attacks at level 2?!)

    EDIT: Shut my mouth. Beasts are covered in post #2. Whoops.
    Last edited by Kajorma; 2015-05-05 at 03:27 PM.

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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    Quote Originally Posted by Kajorma View Post
    Thank you, by the way for the guide. It's helped a lot in picking where I want to go with my druid.
    You're most welcome!
    My D&D 5th ed. Druid Handbook - My D&D 5th ed. Campaign Wiki

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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    I wanted to talk about Mold Earth and Control Flames. I'm actually surprised that these got such a low rating when a cantrip like Druidcraft got the only Blue.
    I'm not upset that Druidcraft got blue but the same reason it would be a blue (creative usage/utility) also IMO makes Mold Earth and Control Flames spells with a ton of potential.

    Mold Earth: Too specific in its uses to be really worth it. Two 5’ squares of difficult terrain (can’t enemies just jump them?) or being able to draw in earth (get some coloured chalk) aren’t very enticing. The digging effect might be something, but how often do you really need to dig? And can’t you pack a spade, which can presumably also handle earth that isn’t ‘loose’?
    While I can certainly agree that the first two uses you mention are nice extras at best, the third use is what really makes this effect for me. The spell lets you instantly excavate a 5x5x5 cube of dirt and move it 5ft. That's frankly ridiculous and it sure as heck isn't something you can just do with a shovel. Oh I mean sure if you had a buddy and spent the next three/four hours or so doing harsh labor then yeah you could do what this spell does instantly but man, that's really not the same.

    Lets talk about the limitation now: Sure it only works if the land/dungeon is in fact made of dirt but that's actually not really unlikely unless your DM rules that "loose dirt" is only a very specific type of terrain. Personally I would think "loose dirt" is any that you could reasonable move with your hands/feet (given enough time) which is actually most dirt you're going to come across. Most outdoors areas are thus going to have a floor made up of loose dirt and most mines/burrows and the like will also be made of loose dirt. Cities, castles (and other large structures), and solid rock caves are some of the few places I can think of where finding loose dirt would actually be tough.

    But then to get to the real point, what does it matter if you don't need to dig much? This is where, like Druidcraft, creativity and planning pays off.

    How about forming a 5/10ft deep trench with a 5/10ft tall wall on the other side is only a few actions away if you have the time to spare. Sure the wall is "only" made of "loose dirt" but honestly that's not much of a disadvantage. It's still ~10,000lbs of dirt (1cuft of dirt is like 80-100lbs and you're moving 125cuft), that's 5 feet thick/tall (more than enough to stop most projectiles), and climbing it would actually be harder the "looser" you make the dirt/mud as it wouldn't hold up and would flow down as they tried to climb/run up it (depending on how well your DM rules the loose dirt holding its shape). Spend a minute making a "wall" around your camp every night if you want, build (admittedly rough/minor) fortifications before major fights, ect...

    What about a mobile cover piece? Sure you're only moving at 5ft per action but you're doing it with 5 tons of earth between you and anything trying to shoot you. Or how about "pushing" a wall of dirt through a dungeon? It's going to do alot for creating choke points/favorable terrain if the hallways are small enough and even if they aren't you're still getting your mobile cover.

    How about tunneling? Full on tunneling might be out of the question (again depending on how your DM rules the earth around your tunnel holding its shape) but if you're in a dungeon with walls/floor/ceiling made out of dirt you could potentially take a few short cuts/block enemy movement when the mood struck you.

    There is just so much potential here and not too much of it is entirely up to DM fiat. It seems like a crime to just wave it off as nothing to me...

    Control flames: Cool, but not that useful cantrip. It requires some non-magical flame to have an effect. If you deal with fire hazards a lot, this grows in usefulness, but you do have other options that can extinguish flames or cause them.
    Like Mold Earth this seems like it has more potential to it than a red spell. Unlike Mold Earth this requires a specific environment (or alot more personal prep work) for it to work but still it seems like it could be good in the right situation. Of course some of it is a bit "meh" (shaping fire, bright/dim is only ok, extinguishing is situational) but the expanding of the fire with one action is pretty interesting.

    Again lets talk limitations: Sure this effect requires already existing natural fire to function but honestly that's not hard to provide. A lit torch is common in most environments and is something you can carry with you/produce easily enough. Even if you don't have a fire ready it can certainly be made in just an action (Druidcraft or using Produce Flame to set something on fire both could work. While Produce Flame would be magical fire while it's in your hand, once you use it to light something on fire I would think it would then be natural fire.) The other limitation is that it requires fuel. This is where environment and prep work comes in. In a forest setting or even grasslands this shouldn't be too hard to argue as available most places. Even in towns (especially towns you don't mind destroying) it's somewhat easy to find materials as needed. Anywhere else, well there is where shaping the terrain to your advantage can work. Carry a bundle of wood with you (and have your friends do it too), it's useful for alot of things (like setting off traps), and in a pinch you can throw them out to supply the fuel you need for your fires.

    Why use this when Druidcraft/Produce Flame can also make fire? Again it's a question of scale. Druidcraft/Produce Flame are only going to at best light a torch/camp fire or the like, that's a far cray from filling a 5x5x5 cube with flame. Arguing you're making a wall of fire with Druidcraft/Produce Flame is hardly going to fly (at least not without alot more prep work) but that's exactly the kind of thing Control Flames does (though hardly with the speed, power, or ease of use of Wall of Fire... Not that I'm saying even at the best of times this effect would compare to Wall of Fire). In just a few actions you can make a curtain of fire between you and incoming enemies and you can spread it towards them at will. Much more limited than Mold Earth perhaps but then it is actually a potentially damaging effect so it's not too surprising.

    Anyway, these are just some random thoughts I had while trying to think of which Cantrips would be best for my Druid.
    Last edited by TSRD; 2015-05-26 at 12:27 PM.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    @ TSRD: Thanks for taking all the time to write that out!

    I can definitely see where you’re coming from. My first thought about the excavation power of Mold Earth was something along the very same lines. But then I thought about when it would have been applicable in my past sessions, and came up with just one place (an ambush site that shouldn’t be disturbed too much, or the trap would’ve been obvious). And then I kept on thinking, and it seemed to me that the ifs and buts kept piling on.

    A major stumbling block for the judgment of the spell is of course ‘loose earth’. What does that mean? Well, the parts of my garden where I keep the soil free, that’s loose enough. It doesn’t stay that way, however. I have to loosen it every few months with tools and bothersome work. Soil compacts naturally, and that’s before someone walks all over it (well, I hope they don’t), or plants grow on it obstructing your line of sight to it and getting their unaffected roots into it. Once I get close to a tree or my hedge, there’s no loosening it at all because of all the roots. And if you go below five inches or so anywhere, it’s quite compact where it isn’t downright muddy. Well, that’s just my experience with soil.
    How about the restriction that it must move along the ground? Does this mean you can’t pile it? It would seem so, unless the pile counts as the ground, which it doesn’t sound to me like it would.

    Moving on. Let’s assume that the DM goes with definitions to the advantage of the cantrip. You can thus gather large amounts of earth for various uses. Of course, this is something you can already do with a spade – in fact you can do much more with a spade, because you can deal with non-loose soil, you can get at things you don’t have line of sight to, and you can deal with stuff that isn’t all loose soil – rocks, roots, mud, whatever. Mold Earth balks at dealing with those things, even at the most generous interpretations of the troublesome parts.
    Then the sort of structure you can create with loose earth is also a question. I can’t see a wall of loose soil; that wouldn’t be loose at all! A big pile of loose earth, sure, I see them at construction sites a lot. Trickier than you’d think at first, because you have to move the dirt in five foot stages, between which it must rest. There may be a maximum inclination the DM is willing to go along with; indeed there should be.
    So you can make an elongated dirt pile of sorts, maybe add something by hand to give a firm foothold where you and your party want to stand; tables, doors, maybe. That should give you cover, and slow down an advancing enemy trying to get into melee, so that’s something. Your enemies approach.
    Upon seeing, likely from some distance, sure signs of fortifying activity, do they fail to take that into consideration? Sure, some monsters are pretty stupid, but most aren’t. Maybe they go around, or wait you out, or start making their own little earth fort, or send for reinforcements.

    The final limiting factor I’ve noticed: This is for the rare occasion where you’re trying to make an area ready for a fight, rather than breaking into enemy territory to fight them there. It happens, sure, but it’s far from the standard combat encounter I should say.

    So, if you have
    A: The right interpretation of ‘loose earth’ and ‘along the ground’
    B: Knowledge in advance of where the fight will be; loose earth there; and possession of said ground
    C: Enough time to prepare, but too little to do it with regular tools
    D: Enemies unable or unwilling to adjust
    Then you have a good combat use for the excavation of Mold Earth.

    You also have a very real risk of having a cantrip able to do things Stone Shape can’t even do. If earth is loose all the way down to the bedrock, and you can move earth upwards, you have to wonder why the campaign world looks the way it does, when moving earth is so easy; the lowliest wizard can cast it all he likes. Construction and city planning changes dramatically. All manner of buildings can be undermined in moments. Channels can be dug in a few days. And so on.
    A word might also be said about the style of campaign where this sort of thing is done often enough to be worth a cantrip. It wouldn’t be for everyone.

    As for Control Flames: Sure, you can have a torch as a ready source of flame. But what can you do with a torch-sized flame that’s worth doing? Set fire to something? Can’t you already do that by holding the torch over to the fuel? If the DM is already nicely lenient, you may be allowed to use Produce Flame to start fires at range.
    As for creating a cool flaming surprise, you don’t need Control Flames for that. Just douse the fuel with lamp oil, and set fire to it when you’ll need it. Prep time would be virtually identical. The cost is in gp, compared to the cost of a different cantrip, a nice switch in my view.

    So I have thought about it more than my terse grunts seem to indicate. I don’t rate them higher than I did. But Mold Earth in particular is based on interpretation, and could easily be seen to be much more powerful than I indicate. Maybe I should point out that it could in fact be a world changing cantrip with the right (or wrong) interpretations.

    Thank you for asking, regardless!
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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    It's certainly true that what defines "loose earth" is a make or break aspect of the spell. Personally mine would be that if you can reach down, dig your fingers in, and pick up the soil, it is "loose." Either way though, that's something that will change from DM to DM, even if you and I were to work toward an agreement on the definition. Of course the same can easily be said of all the non-attack cantrips (Druidcraft for example has either a modest amount of utility or only the barest depending on how tight/loose your DM is).

    I would certainly disagree however with an interpretation that you can't form a mound with the spell. Yes it says it moves along the ground but all I take that to mean is you're not levitating the dirt out of the hole, into the air, and then setting it down. You're causing it to "flow" across the ground to a new spot. It specifically calls out that you're moving all of the dirt that used to fill a 5x5x5 cube to a new spot 5 feet over. Unless the spell somehow causes the dirt to disappear into thin air (and it certainly doesn't say anything about it being spread evenly over a large area) it has to go somewhere. Heck, the excavation process almost assuredly loosens the dirt even further which means it would take up more room than the original 5x5x5 cube, not less/no room, but that's getting a bit too detailed.

    Regarding the tactical stuff, when I said "wall" I meant a mound of dirt, not a 90 degree smooth cliff face or a perfectly square block. How steep the mound is is debatable but it's still certainly enough to impede movement/line of sight, especially when you take into account the "hole" you're leaving from the excavation itself. And even then all of this is instant. That 10,000lbs of earth instantly flows from the ground to a new spot. Sure it's only 5 feet away but that's 5 ft every action (which I believe is assumed to be 6 seconds). No spade can possibly do that.

    Lastly, how "standard" a combat encounter this is: That all depends on how you choose to fight. Do you have to always charge into the enemy's cave? No. Parties do it alot but they don't have to. Likewise many times it's a given that what your defending yourself from is an attack. Say Goblins want to ambush your camp while you're asleep. If they see your fortifications and that makes them not do it then yay, you didn't get ambushed, if they do it anyway, then you have better terrain, either way win win. They aren't building fortification while you sleep, nor are they likely to get reinforcments (they would have already done that if they could). And if you're really in a situation where you can't be on the defensive then you can make use of the mobile cover aspect and take some with you. Finally, after all that, if you still can't afford to be slowed down by taking the earth with you then... Don't do it and press on. Sometimes a utility cantrip isn't applicable to the situation.

    Now onto the RP aspect, I don't really understand you position of "If it can do all this then the world should be drastically different..." I can only respond with, "It's called suspension of disbelief." The world should be different the second a guy got high enough level to cast Wish but for some reaosn it didn't and that's just how it is. To give an example of a similar spell, in Pathfinder Create Water is a "cantrip" for divine classes. They can literally make water at will. That would alter the world as much (if not more) than this would and yet it "doesn't." Why is up to you/your DM to decide, maybe it's tiring to cast spells non-stop for hours on end (even if the rules don't bother to go into that kind of detail) much like swinging your arm would naturally be tiring (again without the rules saying so). Perhaps in the given setting this spell is rare/requires a unique affinity for earth that the common caster lacks. Maybe casters in general are relatively rare and those who have this spell have no desire to spend their time using it for mundane purposes.

    Regarding Control Fire: Again it's the scale, not the effect. Control Flame causes a 5x5x5 cube of fire to spread, not just a "torch" size flame. You need that natural torch flame for the spell to act on but past that, it's creating alot more fire than the torch would. Oil could be argued to have enough ignition to duplicate the effect but that's an oil flask for each square you want to light. Yes, the effect can be duplicated but that same could be said for alot of other cantrips too The advantage here is the speed, magnitude, and the fact that you don't need to have a pack mule worth of oil to do the same thing. Still, alright, I have no problem saying that it is much more setting dependant than alot of spells so red probably is correct. I just felt it deserved a bit of praise.
    Last edited by TSRD; 2015-05-26 at 05:59 PM.

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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    May I suggest you make a thread (or two if you prefer) for the general discussion of this? I'll be happy to talk more, but I'd rather not fill up this thread with a long back-and-forth. I'll edit in a link in this post, so people can find the discussion if they're interested. Ok?
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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    So happy this is still here. I like that you added a reference for the conjurable critters, that will be helpful to me. I'm still playing that Dwarf Druid, level 12 now.
    Conjuring Pixies is insanely good. Their ability to cast Phantasmal Force should be mentioned - the illusions don't allow a save unless they are interacted with. I managed to scare off a dragon by having them make a pack of illusionary Coatls (coatls are involved in the shackled city storyline somewhat).
    Last edited by Grynning; 2015-05-27 at 01:27 PM.
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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    Quote Originally Posted by Grynning View Post
    So happy this is still here. I like that you added a reference for the conjurable critters, that will be helpful to me. I'm still playing that Dwarf Druid, level 12 now.
    Conjuring Pixies is insanely good. Their ability to cast Phantasmal Force should be mentioned - the illusions don't allow a save unless they are interacted with. I managed to scare off a dragon by having them make a pack of illusionary Coatls (coatls are involved in the shackled city storyline somewhat).
    phantasmal force actually does allow an initial save for free (after that it requires an action and a check). that said, it's an int save, and not many things are likely to make 8 int saves even if the DC is low.

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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    Oh yeah, I guess it does. We'd already damaged the dragon a bit with shooting so it fled just because I made the field suddenly appear to have a lot more enemies, and the pixies were able to spread out beyond breath weapon killing range anyways. I generally don't use the conjure spells except in emergencies because I feel like they just upstage everything else when I do, but they are good panic buttons.
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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    May I suggest you make a thread (or two if you prefer) for the general discussion of this? I'll be happy to talk more, but I'd rather not fill up this thread with a long back-and-forth. I'll edit in a link in this post, so people can find the discussion if they're interested. Ok?
    Sorry, I didn't mean for this to spam the thread or anything. I just wanted to say one last thing then that'll be it on this topic.

    Regarding "loose earth": I was looking for other spells that specify "loose earth" and noticed that Earth Tremors also uses that wording (with regards to what surfaces become difficult terrain). However looking at the spell it, says "loose earth or stone" which I think helps answer our question by itself. It wouldn't make much sense for the spell to only work on stone or freshly tilled fields but not normal/hard packed earth, which means I think they are simply using the broadest meaning of "loose earth" (eg soil/dirt in general, which "loose earth" is the definition of).

    Of course that does nothing to address the other issues brought up (how applicable the cantrip is to your normal adventure or the like) but I hope this at least helps other players a little bit.
    Last edited by TSRD; 2015-05-28 at 12:48 AM.

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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    @ Grynning: Thanks! As for mentioning Phantasmal Force, I guess I really could mention all the pixie spells. I opted to point out some, and then the rest go into the ‘some others’ bit.
    But you’re right that illusion spells are thin on the ground in the druid spell list, and as such a welcome addition via conjuring.
    And I agree with you completely on using pixies sparingly. It’s both the decent thing to do, and less likely to provoke the DM to nerf or ban.

    @ Sharkforce: Good catch, and good point. On the other hand, if four of the newly appeared pools of molten lava look fishy, the rest might be viewed with some extra suspicion. Which, I guess, could be helped a lot by mixing things up a bit, and maybe activate only as many as needed to fool that particular target. Well, illusions are always rather DM-dependent.

    @ TSRD: Nice find! I’m not entirely sure it means what you think it means, though. I read it as ‘loose earth or loose stone’. So it doesn’t make a solid stone slab or rock face into difficult terrain in that reading. But let’s not argue endlessly over it, eh?
    Still, you’ve harangued me sufficiently that I’ve noted ‘Mold Earth’ on my list of things to look at when I next update the guide. At least, I think I should point out just how much relies on interpreting the wording.
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  22. - Top - End - #52
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    phantasmal force appears entirely in the head of the target. my reading is that, just like a hold person spell doesn't hold the air around the target if they make their save, phantasmal force simply does not appear at all if they make their initial save; it hasn't gotten past their mental barriers. they might see a flicker of light that very briefly looked sorta like something, but basically, the spell ends when they make their save. there's nothing to concentrate on, and nothing to see.

    (also, honestly, if they want to spend their next 4+ actions investigating the non-suspicious lava instead of defending themselves, i'm not sold on that being a bad use of the spell. getting out of phantasmal force requires an int check - not a save - and spending an action to end it, so if 4 get through and the target doesn't want to be hindered by those 4 spells, that's at least 4 actions needed to escape. personally i recommend incapacitating chains that have spikes on them that move around and tighten and cut them up or similar, no sense letting them have a *choice* of ignoring the effect).

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    Isn't it possible to Magic Stone 3 pebbles on a bandolier, or placed in your mouth, then be used when you wildshape into a bear? The spell uses the casters modifier on the attack, so the spirit of the spell seems that the stones are enchanted so a disabled child could throw it or a bear could spit it/throw it with the same efficiency?
    It takes a turn of set up but I think if the DM allows, having three ranged attacks while wildshaped is decent tactics.

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    Quote Originally Posted by Shatterphim View Post
    a bear could spit it/throw it with the same efficiency?
    To be honest, I don't like stone-spitting bears, just because it's silly and breaks immersion.

    As to the rules though:
    "You or someone else can make a ranged spell attack with one of the pebbles by throwing it or hurling it with a sling."

    I'd rule that you'd have to be able to use a sling or to throw things to make this work. I don't know that a bear could, but I could see an Ape of some kind taking advantage of it.

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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    Quote Originally Posted by Shatterphim View Post
    Isn't it possible to Magic Stone 3 pebbles on a bandolier, or placed in your mouth, then be used when you wildshape into a bear? The spell uses the casters modifier on the attack, so the spirit of the spell seems that the stones are enchanted so a disabled child could throw it or a bear could spit it/throw it with the same efficiency?
    It takes a turn of set up but I think if the DM allows, having three ranged attacks while wildshaped is decent tactics.
    The answer to your question is entirely depedant upon the DM. However bears don't have opposable thumbs and therefore cannot grab (to throw) anything.

    As for spitting them it's a cool idea. However as an AL DM I'd have to say if a player tried this at my table I'd let them do it, but the range would be the same as a net (5/15). At that range the bear should just attack.

    What you need is a potion of fire breathing. Now that would be something to see!

  26. - Top - End - #56
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    @ Shatterphim: Whether it's possible (as has been said above) is entirely up to the DM. But since the duration of Magic Stone is 1 minute, the practicality, even if it's allowed, is somewhat questionable. If you need to fight at a distance, you should probably stay in caster form. Otherwise, you need an Ape (with its own ranged attack) or a flying wild shape.

    Quote Originally Posted by E’Tallitnics View Post
    Now that would be something to see!
    Spoiler: Look no further
    Show
    Last edited by hymer; 2015-08-07 at 01:02 PM.
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    Variant human isn't just decent. It's good for most charisma or strenght based classes and perfect for druid. Variant humans are making the best druid, oh yeah.
    Have an awesome day!

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  28. - Top - End - #58
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    @ EnderDwarf: Thanks for your opinion!
    The merits of the various races is often debated. Let's run a comparison with the Wood Elf.

    VHumans get +1 to two different stats. That'd likely be +1 wis and +1 con or dex.
    Wood elves get +1 to wisdom, +2 to dex.
    Prettty even so far.

    VHumans get a free skill proficiency.
    Wood elves get proficiency in what is possibly the most used skill for anyone: Perception.
    Again, pretty close.

    VHumans get an extra feat.
    Wood elves get darkvision, 35' base move, trance, resistance to charm, immunity to sleep, proficiency in some weapons, and the ability to hide more effectively behind natural effects.

    Bottom line is that wood elves get more stuff. VHumans get more flexible stuff. So how good are feats for druids? Druids don't have feats along the usefulness of Great Weapon Master for a barbarian or Heavy Armor Master for a low level paladin. Feats are good for a druid, but they do not turn things upside down for them the way they do for many other classes. And let's not forget that if feats are in play, eventually the non-human druid will also get the best feats.

    All in all, humans are very similar to the usefulness of dwarves, elves and gnomes. I think that rating one of them higher than the other might be true in strict cases (human moon druid from level 1-3 e.g.), but actually misleading. They are too close to usefully call, particularly when you consider the DM-dependence of such abilities as Trance (Is that a Long Rest in 4 hours?) and Mask of the Wild (How often does it come up? How does stealth work exactly?).
    Suffice it to say, I personally prefer playing a wood elf over a variant human just from a mechanical standpoint.
    Last edited by hymer; 2015-08-08 at 04:52 AM.
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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon Post 2

    Hey hymer. Good document--I learned something.

    I do think you are underestimating Smoke Mephits as a summons though. Smoke Mephits are enablers for the rest of your party, especially for a ranged-heavy party. More below.

    Quote Originally Posted by hymer View Post
    Smoke Mephit: Pretty weak casting ability (dancing lights), but its breath and death burst can blind. They can take less of a beating than mud mephits, but must get close to the enemy to do much of anything. Again, not the obvious choice of summons.
    The breath weapon is only DC 10, but it's a Dex save, which is the worst save of most high-CR monsters, so it scales well. Smoke Mephits are the mephits of choice for hunting beholders, for example: Dex +2 save vs. up to eight DC 10 checks means a 97% chance of blinding the beholder for a round, and a blinded beholder cannot use its eye rays and it easy prey for weapon attacks of all kinds. Even a Demilich (Dex +5) has an 84% chance to fail at least one of the saves and get blinded for a round.

    The other thing smoke mephits are good for is spotting for archers in the dark. Say you're a land druid sneaking around in the Underdark in the form of a giant wolf spider, the advance scout for a party of warlocks and rangers following 100' behind you. You've got a couple of smoke mephits with you (the rest are back with the party), and they're all pretty good at stealth so it's okay. You pass a Perception check and notice a group of drow 60' away creeping silently through the dark toward you--you made your Stealth check so they haven't seen you yet. Normally drow are dangerous because their darkvision is 120', which means that at ranges between 61' and 120' they can see you and you can't see them, ergo they get advantage on attacks (cancelling the range penalty from hand crossbows) and you have advantage to attack them back. But in this case, if you can get your mephits to cast Dancing Lights on the drow, your party 100' behind you, 160' from the drow, will be able to see the drow and not vice versa. You can turn the tables and wipe them out, and here's the best part: you don't even have to cast the Dancing Lights spell yourself, you can remain hidden while the mephits take the heat!

    Melee-heavy parties love wolves, but sneaky ranged parties love smoke mephits.

    On an unrelated note: if you summon an Air Elemental, consider asking a wizard to Mage Armor it up to AC 18, one better than an Earth Elemental.
    Last edited by MaxWilson; 2015-08-08 at 04:28 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #60
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    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: 5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

    Nice guide. I wonder if you have considered adding a section on multiclass options. I know most people that want primarily a druid go straight druid, but there are some interesting possibilities.

    For instance, I am working on a ranger 5/rogue 8/Druid 7 build. Grasslands land circle will give me invisibility and haste which I otherwise would have had trouble getting and the summons work well with sneak attack (ally summon in 5 feet of target). Pretty juicy stuff for an archer assassin.

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