5e Druid Handbook - Land & Moon

[RickAllison]

I am playing a druid that is circle of the Shepard would it be better to take Alert or Observant?

Depends on what you are using the feat for. Alert is amazing for not getting caught off guard yourself and even gives you a hefty initiative bonus, letting you react faster. That is great for a Druid who is trying to control the field, but it leaves the rest of the party caught behind if they are surprised. Observant, in comparison, makes you more capable when it comes to spotting danger before it is too late, allowing you to mitigate ambushes and alert your companions. And you can also be a better scout by being able to read lips!

So Alert is always useful but only saves you, while Observant comes into play less often but helps everyone, and can even help with non-enemy dangers like traps! If you can take a level of Rogue for Expertise, you can have a ridiculous Perception by picking an animal form with Keen Sense (Vulture, for example). Then your passive Perception will be 20+WIS+2Xproficiency (base 10, 5 from having advantage, 5 from Observant). That means even with disadvantage, you should be able to spot anything that can be spotted. This would make you an amazing scout.

So take your pick. Alert will let you be a better mage, controlling the battlefield. Observant will let you be a better scout, finding dangers ahead or around and informing the party.

[JobsforFun]

Depends on what you are using the feat for. Alert is amazing for not getting caught off guard yourself and even gives you a hefty initiative bonus, letting you react faster. That is great for a Druid who is trying to control the field, but it leaves the rest of the party caught behind if they are surprised. Observant, in comparison, makes you more capable when it comes to spotting danger before it is too late, allowing you to mitigate ambushes and alert your companions. And you can also be a better scout by being able to read lips!

So Alert is always useful but only saves you, while Observant comes into play less often but helps everyone, and can even help with non-enemy dangers like traps! If you can take a level of Rogue for Expertise, you can have a ridiculous Perception by picking an animal form with Keen Sense (Vulture, for example). Then your passive Perception will be 20+WIS+2Xproficiency (base 10, 5 from having advantage, 5 from Observant). That means even with disadvantage, you should be able to spot anything that can be spotted. This would make you an amazing scout.

So take your pick. Alert will let you be a better mage, controlling the battlefield. Observant will let you be a better scout, finding dangers ahead or around and informing the party.

I think i'd choose alert since I like being a minion spawner and being as annoying as possible. Another one of my DM hates the alert feat since it takes away the ability to surprise the party.

[RickAllison]

I think i'd choose alert since I like being a minion spawner and being as annoying as possible. Another one of my DM hates the alert feat since it takes away the ability to surprise the party.

Unless everyone in the party has taken the Alert feat, it shouldn't prevent the party from being surprised. Anyone who hasn't taken Alert is just as vulnerable to surprise as if no one had taken it. But yes, if you like minion spawning then Alert is the way to go.

[JobsforFun]

Unless everyone in the party has taken the Alert feat, it shouldn't prevent the party from being surprised. Anyone who hasn't taken Alert is just as vulnerable to surprise as if no one had taken it. But yes, if you like minion spawning then Alert is the way to go.

Thanks for the help, and honestly with the other DM he isn't that great of a DM. He puts a lot of work into the story but when it comes to criticism he cannot take it very well.

[daltonispanda]

Dipping a level into the new UA Stone Sorcerer seems mighty tempting right now. You'll no longer be dependent on Barkskin to improve your AC, freeing up concentration. If you're not planning on being lvl 20, I think it's pretty much mandatory.

Also: Rock Bear

[Zanthy1]

So I was hoping you could do a breakdown of a build for the unearthed arcana circles. If you already have I apologize but I haven't read through all the replies here yet. I like land Druid, but am interested as well in Dreams

[hymer]

So I was hoping you could do a breakdown of a build for the unearthed arcana circles. If you already have I apologize but I haven't read through all the replies here yet. I like land Druid, but am interested as well in Dreams

No worries, I haven't.
I long since decided not to use UA material in the guide here. UA material is not official, there's rather a lot of it coming out that I would have to keep up with, and, well, a lot of it really isn't very balanced. And then there's the likelihood that it gets published in a different form, risking considerable confusion.

But if you would like a discussion on the comparative merits of one or more UA druid circles, this forum is a great place for it. I'll be happy to contribute my views to such a discussion, and if you make such a thread, I'll edit this post and link to it.

[Deleted]

Alternate title of this guide.


5e Druid Handbook: The Moon Lander

.....
...
..
.

No?

5e Druid Handbook: (we didn't) Land (on the) Moon?

(words) = very small size for the letters... Can't change them on mobile.

[Tetrasodium]

I came across something pretty significant with regards to druid armor options:

March 2016 Sage advice

CLASS FEATURES
What happens if a druid wears metal armor? The druid explodes.

Well, not actually. Druids have a taboo against wearing metal armor and wielding a metal shield. The taboo has been part of the class’s story since the class first appeared in Eldritch Wizardry (1976) and the original Player’s Handbook (1978). The idea is that druids prefer to be protected by animal skins, wood, and other natural materials that aren’t the worked metal that is associated with civilization. Druids don’t lack the ability to wear metal armor. They choose not to wear it. This choice is part of their identity as a mystical order. Think of it in these terms: a vegetarian can eat meat, but the vegetarian chooses not to.

A druid typically wears leather, studded leather, or hide armor, and if a druid comes across scale mail made of a material other than metal, the druid might wear it. If you feel strongly about your druid breaking the taboo and donning metal, talk to your DM. Each class has story elements mixed with its game features; the two types of design go hand-in-hand in D&D, and the story parts are stronger in some classes than in others. Druids and paladins have an especially strong dose of story in their design. If you want to depart from your class’s story, your DM has the final say on how far you can go and still be considered a member of the class. As long as you abide by your character’s proficiencies, you’re not going to break anything in the game system, but you might undermine the story and the world being created in your campaign.

Given that pg140 in the dmg has a blurb that makes that even more interesting

Spoiler: donning & wearing armor

Show

WEARING AND WIELDING ITEMS
Using a magic item's properties might mean wearing or wielding it. A magic item meant to be worn must be donned in the intended fashion: boots go on the feet, gloves on the hands, hats and helmets on the head, and rings on the finger. Magic armor must be donned, a shield strapped to the arm, a cloak fastened about the shoulders. A weapon must be held in hand.

In most cases, a magic item that's meant to be worn can fit a creature regardless of size or build. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they magically adjust themselves to the wearer.

Rare exceptions exist. If the story suggests a good reason for an item to fit only creatures of a certain size or shape, you can rule that it doesn't adjust. For example, armor made by the drow might fit elves only.

Obviously it's not going to do much good for a giant snake, octopus, whale, or maybe a bunch of other things; but beasts capable of bipedal movement like a polar bear, canid/feline or a dinosaur could do quite well with a suit of the medium armors druids are proficient with

[ansikt]

One thing to note about Conjure Woodland Beings + Pixies: it's a totally awesome trick, but you can't actually turn the party into flying t-rexes. The polymorph is being cast by the pixies, so it's restricted to only CR 1/4 shapes. So, flying velocoraptors at best. Polymorph still makes a great tool offensively, as despite the atrocious spell save of the pixies (12, IIRC), they'll have to succeed 8 of them. A little less game-breaking that way, especially if your DM throws some area effects your way.

[Saggo]

One thing to note about Conjure Woodland Beings + Pixies: it's a totally awesome trick, but you can't actually turn the party into flying t-rexes. The polymorph is being cast by the pixies, so it's restricted to only CR 1/4 shapes. So, flying velocoraptors at best. Polymorph still makes a great tool offensively, as despite the atrocious spell save of the pixies (12, IIRC), they'll have to succeed 8 of them. A little less game-breaking that way, especially if your DM throws some area effects your way.

The CR is based on the target’s level or CR, not caster's.

[EKruze]

Animal Shapes: Concentration. This is like a minor mass wildshape effect. It doesn’t seem to be a very strong option on the individual level, but it does allow you to transform a big group of little or no combat capability into beasts of CR 4 or less, retaining their minds. If you ever need a herd of elephants, this is exactly the right spell for it.

This spell unfortunately limits you to Large or smaller creatures which appears to prevent any of the CR4 creatures from serving as options.

[hymer]

This spell unfortunately limits you to Large or smaller creatures which appears to prevent any of the CR4 creatures from serving as options.

Good point, thanks for pointing it out! I'll amend that next time I update the guide.

[Albert_Newton]

This was really helpful for me. I am now planning to turn my level 8 druid into a support unit. Is this a good idea?

[Tetrasodium]

This was really helpful for me. I am now planning to turn my level 8 druid into a support unit. Is this a good idea?

Very possible, I suggest creating a new thread with details on your character & a bit about the group

[hymer]

This was really helpful for me. I am now planning to turn my level 8 druid into a support unit. Is this a good idea?

I'm glad you found it useful!

As for remaking yourself as a support caster, it can be as simple as changing your prepared spell list to include spells that will support your group. At your most recently attained spell level: A well-placed Wall of Fire can divide the enemy group and let your allies deal with them piecemeal. Polymorph can do something similar to one enemy, or buff one of your allies who needs to conserve spells or hit points. Confusion isn't the most reliable of spells, but it can wreak havoc on a group of enemies.
And you can of course keep your Conjure Animals on your prepared list for when things get tough. They can be particularly useful for covering a retreat, and/or to pick up fallen comrades and bring them along (apes should be able to do that well).

[nmitchell2]

I'm wondering want people think good multiclass builds are for Druid. Obviously 1 level of Barbarian or Monk (likely Monk) for an AC boost in Wild Shape and either Rage or Martial Arts for Circle of the Moon. Maybe 2 levels of Rogue at a push for Cunning Action? Beast Conclave for the Revised Ranger?

Circle of the Land prefers multiclass options that don't slow spellcasting progression much. The obvious option is Cleric; 1 level of Life Domain is great and 2 levels of Tempest Domain combos quite nicely with Call Lightning. A more martial Druid or a Druid worried about survivability might look at up to 5 levels of Monk or the Hunter Conclave for the Revised Ranger. Even 1 level of Monk for the AC boost while only delaying spellcasting by 1 level. Notice how all these classes key off Wis.

[RickAllison]

I'm wondering want people think good multiclass builds are for Druid. Obviously 1 level of Barbarian or Monk (likely Monk) for an AC boost in Wild Shape and either Rage or Martial Arts for Circle of the Moon. Maybe 2 levels of Rogue at a push for Cunning Action? Beast Conclave for the Revised Ranger?

Circle of the Land prefers multiclass options that don't slow spellcasting progression much. The obvious option is Cleric; 1 level of Life Domain is great and 2 levels of Tempest Domain combos quite nicely with Call Lightning. A more martial Druid or a Druid worried about survivability might look at up to 5 levels of Monk or the Hunter Conclave for the Revised Ranger. Even 1 level of Monk for the AC boost while only delaying spellcasting by 1 level. Notice how all these classes key off Wis.

Rogue 1 for Athletics Expertise on a Moon Druid, which makes your forms that grapple on successful hits extremely difficult to escape from. Arcana Cleric for Booming Blade to pair with Shillelagh for a Wisdom-based melee druid. If you also have a good Intelligence (good rolls, maybe?), Bladesinger could be great as your bonus to AC and concentration saves will transfer over to your Wild Shapes. Getting up to Extra Attack is a hefty multiclass, but your Moon forms become much more versatile when you can apply the great natural weapons of the animals with the freedom to use them as you like. It is less useful for something like a Brown Bear, but it doubles the output of creatures that rely on single attacks.

[SharkForce]

Rogue 1 for Athletics Expertise on a Moon Druid, which makes your forms that grapple on successful hits extremely difficult to escape from. Arcana Cleric for Booming Blade to pair with Shillelagh for a Wisdom-based melee druid. If you also have a good Intelligence (good rolls, maybe?), Bladesinger could be great as your bonus to AC and concentration saves will transfer over to your Wild Shapes. Getting up to Extra Attack is a hefty multiclass, but your Moon forms become much more versatile when you can apply the great natural weapons of the animals with the freedom to use them as you like. It is less useful for something like a Brown Bear, but it doubles the output of creatures that rely on single attacks.

DC to escape most automatic on-hit grapples is set, not an opposed athletics check.

it *might* be based on athletics proficiency, but then again, it might not. (considering the animals in question typically have no athletics proficiency, i'm inclined to speculate that it is not, but there isn't really any conclusive way to tell).

[RickAllison]

DC to escape most automatic on-hit grapples is set, not an opposed athletics check.

it *might* be based on athletics proficiency, but then again, it might not. (considering the animals in question typically have no athletics proficiency, i'm inclined to speculate that it is not, but there isn't really any conclusive way to tell).

I'm going off what the Monster Manual states, which is that the DC is 10+Athletics. That doesn't have to be what the monster's is because it may have special rules (only has Athletics proficiency under specific conditions, for example; this has precedent in racial abilities that only come into play under specific circumstances) while the Druid's skill modifier is used when it is higher. This is pursuant to the following text:

If the creature has the same proficiency as you and the bonus in its stat block is higher than yours, use the creature’s bonus instead of yours.

So yeah. It works by the Monster Manual.

[hymer]

I'm wondering want people think good multiclass builds are for Druid. Obviously 1 level of Barbarian or Monk (likely Monk) for an AC boost in Wild Shape and either Rage or Martial Arts for Circle of the Moon. Maybe 2 levels of Rogue at a push for Cunning Action? Beast Conclave for the Revised Ranger?

Circle of the Land prefers multiclass options that don't slow spellcasting progression much. The obvious option is Cleric; 1 level of Life Domain is great and 2 levels of Tempest Domain combos quite nicely with Call Lightning. A more martial Druid or a Druid worried about survivability might look at up to 5 levels of Monk or the Hunter Conclave for the Revised Ranger. Even 1 level of Monk for the AC boost while only delaying spellcasting by 1 level. Notice how all these classes key off Wis.

I've set down a thought or two in the multiclass section of the guide (in case you haven't noticed). The best advice I can give for moon multiclassing is to talk out the options with your DM so neither of you gets any nasty surprises. And to give the DM time to think through the possibilities.
And the best advice I can give on land multiclassing is: Don't. Delaying access to higher level spells is rarely worth it. The exception is mostly when you feel constrained to improve yourself in a given role (like healer or electrical blaster in the suggestions you make above).

Edit: Added the two beasts and the two fey from Tales of the Yawning Portal in post 5.

[Tetrasodium]

I've set down a thought or two in the multiclass section of the guide (in case you haven't noticed). The best advice I can give for moon multiclassing is to talk out the options with your DM so neither of you gets any nasty surprises. And to give the DM time to think through the possibilities.
And the best advice I can give on land multiclassing is: Don't. Delaying access to higher level spells is rarely worth it. The exception is mostly when you feel constrained to improve yourself in a given role (like healer or electrical blaster in the suggestions you make above).

Edit: Added the two beasts and the two fey from Tales of the Yawning Portal in post 5.

That TYP lizard sounds pretty awesome. Do you happen to have its details handy?

[RickAllison]

That TYP lizard sounds pretty awesome. Do you happen to have its details handy?

Some highlights (I won't post the stat blocks):

Giant Crayfish
15 AC, just short of Barkskin. Really nice for a beast.
30 ft of blindsight, which is always a nice bonus.
Two claw attacks, 1d10+2 damage with a grappling effect. Not a high DC since it does not have Athletics proficiency, but you can boost it if you have that. More of a carrot than a great feature.

Giant Subterranean Lizard:
Huge, which makes this lizard quite useful.
Bite and Tail multiattack. 2d10+5 with auto-grapple for Bite, Tail is the same damage with knocking someone prone at DC 15. Either can be swapped for the Swallow attack, which is limited to a Medium or smaller grappled creature. Same damage, but the target switches grappled condition for blinded and restrained and takes 3d6 acid damage (only one creature swallowed at a time). Nasty bite, but very useful.

Giant electric eel:
CR 3 (which is also relatively empty), but restricted to water breathing. On land, you are only getting a little while in this form with 5 ft speed.
Blindsight of 60 feet. That is awesome and tied for the longest distance.
Multiattack of two Bites, working from a +3 Dexterity. Quite the nasty bite, actually, doling out 2d6+3 piercing and 1d8 lightning damage.
Lightning Jolt, a recharging (5-6) attack that affects one enemy the eel can touch on land or any within 15 feet in water. Con save. If they fail, they take 3d8 damage (not too bad...) and are stunned (bad). Stunning makes the person incapacitated (no actions), unable to move, barely able to speak, auto-fail Strength and Dex saves, and giving advantage to any attackers. Not pleasant.
Fun facts: Real-life electric eels are more closely related to catfish than eels, are actually air-breathers, have all their vital organs near the head while 80% of their body is devoted to the electrical organs, "see" almost entirely through sending out low-level electrical impulses, and can kill a human rather easily though such deaths are rare as the two species rarely come in contact

Not terribly exciting, but it works.

[hymer]

Some highlights (I won't post the stat blocks)

Thanks, especially for sparing me the dilemma.

Giant electric eel

I haven't been doing aquatic animal reviews, but I should at least allude to the electric, air-breathing catfish' caricature.

[RickAllison]

Thanks, especially for sparing me the dilemma.


I haven't been doing aquatic animal reviews, but I should at least allude to the electric, air-breathing catfish' caricature.

Fair point, though you might consider a separate section for aquatic animals for those situations when they are actually needed. Aquatic campaigns, water dungeons (Zelda flashbacks...), traveling by ship, etc.

Also, eels are terrifying. Just putting that out there. They will just wait in their hidey-holes for prey or a potential danger to get close, then launch out and rip into them. And if they don't want to let go, you have to break their jaws to get them out. They are the one animal that freaks me out...

[Tetrasodium]

Fair point, though you might consider a separate section for aquatic animals for those situations when they are actually needed. Aquatic campaigns, water dungeons (Zelda flashbacks...), traveling by ship, etc.

Also, eels are terrifying. Just putting that out there. They will just wait in their hidey-holes for prey or a potential danger to get close, then launch out and rip into them. And if they don't want to let go, you have to break their jaws to get them out. They are the one animal that freaks me out...

Their teeth are curved back& I believe inward compared to something like a dog where they are just pointed mostly up/down. It's not so much a matter of not wanting to as not really being able to

[hymer]

Fair point, though you might consider a separate section for aquatic animals for those situations when they are actually needed. Aquatic campaigns, water dungeons (Zelda flashbacks...), traveling by ship, etc.

I don't think I'll do exactly that, but maybe I can do one better. Eventually I may decide to make a fresh page with a link to it in the guide, where all the available beasts, elementals and fey are in, from every book. Looking at it by book is useful too, but as the number of other books increase, a document encompassing everything becomes more valuable.

Also, eels are terrifying. Just putting that out there. They will just wait in their hidey-holes for prey or a potential danger to get close, then launch out and rip into them. And if they don't want to let go, you have to break their jaws to get them out. They are the one animal that freaks me out...

I've helped catch and eat way too many eels to find them terrifying. Interesting (and tasty; not the mud-dwellers, though), sure, but not terrifying.

[SharkForce]

Their teeth are curved back& I believe inward compared to something like a dog where they are just pointed mostly up/down. It's not so much a matter of not wanting to as not really being able to

sounds pretty suspect. if they literally could not open their mouth after biting something, they would die of starvation if they ever bit something. which is a fairly significant flaw for a creature that eats by biting things, to say the least.

[cloner4000]

No worries, I haven't.
I long since decided not to use UA material in the guide here. UA material is not official, there's rather a lot of it coming out that I would have to keep up with, and, well, a lot of it really isn't very balanced. And then there's the likelihood that it gets published in a different form, risking considerable confusion.

But if you would like a discussion on the comparative merits of one or more UA druid circles, this forum is a great place for it. I'll be happy to contribute my views to such a discussion, and if you make such a thread, I'll edit this post and link to it.

If I can hijack your thread and get some advice from you regarding the Twilight Moon Druid build. Our group is starting a new campaign with Curse of Strahd, so I think Twlight Circle should fit both thematically and mechanically with speak with dead and other spells/abilities.

I am leaning toward either caster-focused druid as I have played mostly melee character up to this point, My group tended to not take too many short rests so Arcane recovery probably won't be used too much so I thought going with Twlight seems interests as I will only be giving up the extra cantrip and the bonus land spells.

I assume that before those difference the rest of the build should be similar to how I would build a Land Druid, but maybe a few more dmg spells as I get to add 1d10 to those spells and heal when I kill enemies to take advantage of the abilities?

[hymer]

If I can hijack your thread and get some advice from you regarding the Twilight Moon Druid build. Our group is starting a new campaign with Curse of Strahd, so I think Twlight Circle should fit both thematically and mechanically with speak with dead and other spells/abilities.

I am leaning toward either caster-focused druid as I have played mostly melee character up to this point, My group tended to not take too many short rests so Arcane recovery probably won't be used too much so I thought going with Twlight seems interests as I will only be giving up the extra cantrip and the bonus land spells.

I assume that before those difference the rest of the build should be similar to how I would build a Land Druid, but maybe a few more dmg spells as I get to add 1d10 to those spells and heal when I kill enemies to take advantage of the abilities?

Firstly (and this isn't just for you): I don't mind answering a quick question with my best judgment, but there's really no reason not to make a thread and open this question up to all the clever people in this forum. If you want to be sure you get my view, you can send me a private message and link me to the thread.

I haven't played or run tests with twilight circle druids, so this is just me shooting from the hip: I wouldn't prepare more damage spells with a twilight druid than I would with a land druid. I'd build them virtually identically (though mindful of not getting the extra spells and slots from land, but instead getting a bit of nova and healing from twilight). You can use Harvest's Scythe with a cantrip if need be. You shouldn't need extra ways to deliver it, though you may want to focus a little more on AoE spells (and this could be a reason to pick up Thunderclap from EE), as they would seem to be able to deliver the damage multiple times for better results and resource economy.
You need to ask your DM some things about HS. Like does the extra damage get halved with a successful save for half? Does it get multiplied on a successful crit? Can it apply to conjured minions dealing damage (probably not, but you should ask)? Those things would shape the ways you try to use it.
One trick I'd consider trying out with HS is spiking otherwise small damage. So who cares if a monster takes 2d4 damage from walking through the very edge of a Spike Growth? Well, that damage could become surprisingly high if the druid wanted to invest in it. That it occurs outside your turn is nice too.