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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Magnificent Boop in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Arkentools....Chaotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doshi View Post
    Thinking about the characters as children leads me to think about their 'families'. Wanda's tribe, the Croatan, is lost. If Wanda is in some sense like a child who has lost her family, in other words an orphan, then her lack of hope and poor sense of humor is explainable as the result of psychological trauma. Her apparent loyalty to Stanley may be the result of her trying to make the Plaid tribe her new family.
    It seems to me that her desire to force her will on the outside world (and thereby prevent it from hurting her again?) fits that view....

    But even the Plaid tribe of Stanley and Sizemore is in danger. It's "nearly lost." What effect has the near destruction of their tribe (family?) had on Stanley and Sizemore?
    Sizemore expects to die soon. Why does he return from the Magic Kingdom, to face his doom? (I don't know for sure that Sizemore had other options, but it seems at least possible he could have stayed in the Magic Kingdom, rather than returning to Gobwin Knob with Wanda.) Does Sizemore remain loyal to Stanley (his big brother?) because the two of them are among the last members of the Plaid?
    I'm not quite as convinced by this reading. For one thing, Sizemore only shows an "expects to die soon" level of pessimism in reaction to Parson's admission that he doesn't think he's the "perfect warlord" the summoning was supposed to produce, and he perks up when Parson declares that he intends to win somehow (even though he has no reason, really, to think Parson can actually do so).

    Basically, I think Sizemore is loyal because he doesn't have the gumption to consider doing anything else.

    Jillian doesn't know what she really wants. Is this because she's rejected her family? She doesn't let anyone except Wanda know she really a Royal. She has rejected both the obligations and privileges that come with being a member of her family. She is drawn to both Anson, who has a family like hers, and Wanda, who has no family.
    A lot depends on whether the speculation that Jillian's royal family is the one deposed by Stanley turns out to be true. She may also be an orphan (I read Vinnie's "Well, kinda" caveat as more likely to represent ambiguity about Stanley's culpability for the regicide and/or whether the old monarch was croaked in a way that really fits that word, not the fact that it happened).

  2. - Top - End - #32
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Arkentools....Chaotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    I'm not quite as convinced by this reading. For one thing, Sizemore only shows an "expects to die soon" level of pessimism in reaction to Parson's admission that he doesn't think he's the "perfect warlord" the summoning was supposed to produce, and he perks up when Parson declares that he intends to win somehow (even though he has no reason, really, to think Parson can actually do so).

    Basically, I think Sizemore is loyal because he doesn't have the gumption to consider doing anything else.
    I think that when Sizemore insists on paying Janis 20 Rands on page 11, and explains why he's overpaying her by saying, "There's a good chance I'll never see you again", he's doing so because he strongly suspects that he's going to die soon. So I think his ignoring the danger and returning to Gobwin Knob showed real courage.

  3. - Top - End - #33
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: The Arkentools....Chaotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    She seems more dedicated to her side's victory than Stanley himself -- she pressed him to spend a big chunk of the treasury on the summoning, and she had done some advance work on this plan while Stanley continued losing with the old tried-and-not-terribly-true method of promoting the most handsome and dashing available trooper.
    Very true.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    As for the possibility that she's facilitating Jillian's escapes, one variation of that theory -- that she's doing so as a "black op" maneuver, confident that Jillian will be back to her reckless ways and get recaptured with a head full of fresh intel -- is perfectly consistent with loyalty to her side.
    The new comic seems to support that....

    Quote Originally Posted by Doshi View Post
    Thinking about the characters as children leads me to think about their 'families'.
    I think this is unlikely; when you consider a typical family with several children, the children try to be as different as possible....And so a child wouldn't really relish the idea of being stuck in families in Childworld. More likely (imho) is that each tribe is a group of friends, and the reason that they're becoming lost is that they're growing up, and growing apart from each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doshi View Post
    But even the Plaid tribe of Stanley and Sizemore is in danger. It's "nearly lost." What effect has the near destruction of their tribe (family?) had on Stanley and Sizemore?
    For Stanley, I have to ask you this question in return: Is Stanley capable of feeling love for members of his family/group of friends? Or is it a result of his apathy that the Plaid tribe is becoming lost, as people abandon him?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doshi View Post
    Sizemore expects to die soon. Why does he return from the Magic Kingdom, to face his doom? (I don't know for sure that Sizemore had other options, but it seems at least possible he could have stayed in the Magic Kingdom, rather than returning to Gobwin Knob with Wanda.) Does Sizemore remain loyal to Stanley (his big brother?) because the two of them are among the last members of the Plaid?
    Had he not returned to Gobwin Knob, and Stanley lost the battle, then it's quite likely that he'd be killed as soon as someone from Ansom's army found him. So the least dangerous thing for him to do is probably to go back to the capital anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doshi View Post
    Jillian doesn't know what she really wants. Is this because she's rejected her family? She doesn't let anyone except Wanda know she really a Royal. She has rejected both the obligations and privilages tha tcome with being a member of her family. She is drawn to both Anson, who has a family like hers, and Wanda, who has no family.
    Anson has a family (he is a Royal)
    Actually, Jillian has no family (or no friends) because she claims no tribe, and Ansom does have one because he's a Jetstone. I don't think Royals are all members of the same family; it seems more like Royals are the leaders of their respective tribes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doshi View Post
    and tries to live up to its expectations. He is attracted to Jillian, who seems to have no family. Does Anson's family approve of his relationship with Jillian? Perhaps Royals are only supposed to marry other Royals? Does Anson feel guilty about his relationship with Jillian, because, as far as he knows, Jillian in not a Royal?
    I don't think Ansom has a relationship with Jillian yet; he wants to, but she seems to be ignoring him completely....

  4. - Top - End - #34
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Scientivore's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Arkentools....Chaotic?

    On Page 40, Wanda, Parson and Stanley remind me of a sitcom mom/son/stepdad dynamic. Read the first two panels again, replacing "perfect warlord" with "perfect son" and replacing "Overlord" with "husband". It totally works!

    Wait...now I'm not sure why I posted that in this thread. It doesn't really fit a Childworld reading, does it? I must've been looking at it more general terms of family dynamics.
    Last edited by Scientivore; 2007-04-11 at 05:54 PM.
    My avatar is a remix that I made of Prince Ansom. Resource credit:
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    Snag some Erfworld avatars and backgrounds, make some lolerfs and motivators (or demotivators), read my Erfworld fanmix, or check out my latest spotlight on an under-discussed webcomic: Head Trip (Scilight #13)!

  5. - Top - End - #35
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: The Arkentools....Chaotic?

    Consider: Erfworld is first and foremost a game.

    What is the purpose of this game, and how can it be won? Parson is an expert on games: how long will it take him to recognize the fundamental nature of the situation he's in, and see it as more than a series of combats?
    Alignments are objective. Right and wrong are not.
    Good: Will act to prevent harm to others even at personal cost.
    Evil: Will seek personal benefit even if it causes harm to others.
    Law: General, universal, and consistent trump specific, local, and inconsistent.
    Chaos: Specific, local, and inconsistent trump general, universal, and consistent.

  6. - Top - End - #36
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: The Arkentools....Chaotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caledonian View Post
    Consider: Erfworld is first and foremost a game.

    What is the purpose of this game, and how can it be won? Parson is an expert on games: how long will it take him to recognize the fundamental nature of the situation he's in, and see it as more than a series of combats?
    Who says you can win or lose in Erfworld?

    Edit: I mean, overall....Obviously there can be winning and losing of a battle, or even a war, but if it's any type of RPG, no matter how small the roleplaying part is, you can't lose....
    Last edited by Maerad of Pellinor; 2007-04-12 at 10:07 PM.
    "Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand, I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me. Take me out to the black, tell 'em I ain't comin' back, burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me. There's no place I can be since I found Serenity, but you can't take the sky from me."

    May the Force be with you.

    Why are you standing in the courtyard holding a parasol painted like a bullseye?

    Highlight: I prepared Explosive Runes this morning.

  7. - Top - End - #37
    Magnificent Boop in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Arkentools....Chaotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maerad of Pellinor View Post
    Who says you can win or lose in Erfworld?

    Edit: I mean, overall....Obviously there can be winning and losing of a battle, or even a war, but if it's any type of RPG, no matter how small the roleplaying part is, you can't lose....
    Well, I would assume that getting croaked means "you lose"....

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: The Arkentools....Chaotic?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveMB View Post
    Well, I would assume that getting croaked means "you lose"....
    Good point....

    Edit: But assuming Parson isn't croaked, can he really lose the game? He isn't under any obligations to defend Gobwin Knob, after all--only to obey Stanley....So if Stanley dies, he wins (he's free of his needing to obey) and if Stanley lives, he wins (his side won the battle--assuming GK losing implies Stanley's death)
    Last edited by Maerad of Pellinor; 2007-04-13 at 09:08 PM.
    "Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand, I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me. Take me out to the black, tell 'em I ain't comin' back, burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me. There's no place I can be since I found Serenity, but you can't take the sky from me."

    May the Force be with you.

    Why are you standing in the courtyard holding a parasol painted like a bullseye?

    Highlight: I prepared Explosive Runes this morning.

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: The Arkentools....Chaotic?

    Wanda doesn't know what a child is. Which makes me think even more that Erfworld is the world of a child's imagination....
    "Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand, I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me. Take me out to the black, tell 'em I ain't comin' back, burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me. There's no place I can be since I found Serenity, but you can't take the sky from me."

    May the Force be with you.

    Why are you standing in the courtyard holding a parasol painted like a bullseye?

    Highlight: I prepared Explosive Runes this morning.

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