If You Could Wish Upon A Throne...

[Arracor]

I'm working on a world centered around a set of godly artifacts that, when used in tandem, can grant miracles. In this world, spellcasters have no access to Wish/Miracle spells. There's only one other plane, and only spirits live there (think fey); no angels, no demons, no gods. The artifacts in question are a set of 5 Thrones, and to utilize their miraculous power, all 5 must be used in perfect synchronicity. In other words, 5 people have to agree on their wish for it to work.

My issue, then, is that I need some wishes. In a world like that, what are some things people would spend their lives trying to achieve/attain that can't be gotten more easily through more mundane means? (I'm basically just gathering ideas, so go wild! I need as many as I can fit in a Haversack and then some, since there's several centuries' worth of people trying to gain control of the Thrones and their goals will probably form the basis of still-existing factions.)

[the_david]

You might try the Dragonball series for ideas, because your plot is fairly similar. Except, you know, you've got just 5 dragonballs instead of 7 and they are a lot harder to move around. If all else fails, wish for panties!

Don't worry about the Dragonball-clone thing though. These things aren't called tropes for no reason.

[Gritmonger]

If the thrones are spread far apart and immobile, it makes a question of timing and intent a bit more of the equation - I'd expect literate folks would gather together and write out their wish to be read at the right time in coordination.

Maybe one of the first wishes was to bring all five thrones together in one place, in a kind of five pointed circle - or the opposite, to take such a circle and spread all five thrones to the corners of the world... maybe this has been done multiple times.

[Mr.Cobalt]

So basically the only ones able to use this would be members of a cult/conspiracy all dedicated to the same ideal and capable of planning the simultaneous acquisition of these thrones?

[GorinichSerpant]

Immortality is a classic wish.

Could the thrones give the wish of making the 5 people sitting on the thrones immortal?

Alternatively, someone could as a work around wish for anyone who sits on the throne to gain immortality, no way that could backfire!(it will backfire in ways full of wonderful story opportunity)

What is the cool-down on the thrones? What is stopping 5 people who already have the thrones to say all the wishes that they have according to a before planned list and time.

I think that as a one time thing where multiple party worked together for a single wish, a common threat like a archdemon was imprisoned by the wish of 5 different kings.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

If the thrones are spread far apart and immobile, it makes a question of timing and intent a bit more of the equation - I'd expect literate folks would gather together and write out their wish to be read at the right time in coordination.

Maybe one of the first wishes was to bring all five thrones together in one place, in a kind of five pointed circle - or the opposite, to take such a circle and spread all five thrones to the corners of the world... maybe this has been done multiple times.

That's just awkward. The thrones are magic, set them up so that everybody sitting on them has a psychic link and can communicate about the wish they're going to make. It lets politics move faster and makes things more interesting.

Anyways, if the power of the thrones is well-known (there have been historical instances of wishes happening and things happening as a result), you have a few assumptions:

1) All of the thrones are violently guarded and controlled by the nation that possesses them. Kings might even move their capitols to the thrones and use control of the throne as a symbol of political legitimacy. Coming within a hundred yards of the throne without authorization is an instant death sentence.

2) Once in a while, maybe every decade or so, the rulers of the kingdoms can agree on a small, minor wish. Something they can all agree on to solve a crisis (like a drought or maybe the invasion of a foreign power). However, all of the kingdoms have veto power, so this is pretty rare. If the kingdoms are on good terms, they may agree on trading compromises for wishes (or this happened once, and somebody immediately didn't hold up their end of the bargain and now nobody can agree on anything because of mutual mistrust).

3) If one nation tried to conquer another nation and take its throne, all of the nations would unite against them. Having control of two thrones is just asking for trouble. You may even get small nations spun off for the sole purpose of controlling the throne independently and their neighbors could exert influence on one another through economic support.

4) If a single power managed sieze all the thrones, the world would never be the same.

[Gritmonger]

That's just awkward. The thrones are magic, set them up so that everybody sitting on them has a psychic link and can communicate about the wish they're going to make. It lets politics move faster and makes things more interesting.

So... that makes some assumptions and powers about the thrones - why wouldn't they be used as a communication device commonly? Or would they? Are they accessible and controlled? Or are they prone to, like other powerful artifacts, causing ownership to fall away as they see fit? Is having one around truly a boon, or does it carry with it some other issues like the attention of more than just mundane powers?

What restriction would there be on any use of them at all if just five people had to agree instantaneously, and could use them any time those five saw fit? What would prevent them from all wishing themselves into the status of deities? Can they only be used when the stars are right? Can an individual only sit in them once? Are there any restrictions on the wish besides consensus?

[Arracor]

I'm surprised at the amount of logical guesswork here. I s'pose it was silly of me not to expect this. Let's seee......"

1: Yes, there is a psychic link between the Thrones. More specifically, one of its granted powers is the ability to operate mentally and perceptively on 2 layers, one of those layers being a sort of astral chamber in which all 5 Thrones do, in fact, sit in a circle.

2: The Thrones are indeed the capitals of their respective kingdoms, and are guarded -very- jealously.

3: Yes, it would basically take a conspiracy to pull it off, something that has never been accomplished since the old empire that created the Thrones fell. Especially given the world-altering nature of many of the wishes I've already come up with.

4: Sure, immortality is possible. The point of this thread, really, is to come up with more ideas. The average monarch's reign is about 2-5 years in this world, and -every- monarch has an agenda, and I need a lot of wishes; it'd be pretty boring lore/plot if all the wishes were just "immortality, wealth, and bitches", no?

5: Nobody knows the limitations on the power of the Thrones United, since nobody has managed to use them as a set since the old empire, and there are neither memory nor record of the time before it fell. Everything known about the power of the Thrones United is essentially commonly accepted myth.

6: Indeed, taking multiple Thrones by force would cause the other kingdoms to band together exactly long enough to tear you down. Overt military means of gaining additional Thrones is basically checkmating yourself.

7: Mutual mistrust is the name of the game. Every monarch is, by definition, going to be paranoid as all hell due to the unquestionable knowledge that scores of other factions want their Throne, including every other monarch. A temporary alliance to pop off a single mutually beneficial miracle is actually an idea one of the current monarchs (a Throne-Cycle-hating idealist) has proposed, to the utter derision of the other 4. Nice in theory, but it'll basically never happen. (Some even wonder if the Thrones really are unlimited-use, or if perhaps they've only got enough spunk left for one or two miracles.)

So I guess given the new infodump, what are some interesting wishes you can see being planned? (It should be something 4 other people could agree on.)

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

What would prevent them from all wishing themselves into the status of deities?

Greed, hubris, and caution. There's no point in me being a god if all the rest of you have to be gods too. You're all terrible people, and any two of you could conspire to kill a third anyways. Better to leave us all mortal.

4: Sure, immortality is possible. The point of this thread, really, is to come up with more ideas. The average monarch's reign is about 2-5 years in this world, and -every- monarch has an agenda, and I need a lot of wishes; it'd be pretty boring lore/plot if all the wishes were just "immortality, wealth, and bitches", no?
So I guess given the new infodump, what are some interesting wishes you can see being planned? (It should be something 4 other people could agree on.)

Sure, everybody and their brother would have their idea of what they would wish, but in practice no five people could ever agree on anything. The kings might meet once per month to talk about it and have zero consensus each time.

The way these are set up, wishes would be extremely rare. It may be that they've only ever been used to make a wish once, on something that everyone was in agreement on. Probably a major apocalyptic event, like a meteor crashing into the continent or a demonic extraplanar invasion. Maybe the kingdoms around the thrones are the last safe place in the world, and everything outside the kingdoms is post-apocalyptic.

[Gritmonger]

Greed, hubris, and caution.

Wouldn't hubris be an argument for wanting to be a deity?

Maybe the kingdoms around the thrones are the last safe place in the world, and everything outside the kingdoms is post-apocalyptic.

...that would argue there was an apocalyptic event, either due to the thrones (in which case, usurpation would be in order) or in spite of the thrones (again, arguing for usurpation), or due to apathy in wanting to fix it and make sure subjects had enough to eat (once more, usurpation).

One wish in that case would be to 'fix' the damage of the apocalypse as an obvious wish.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Wouldn't hubris be an argument for wanting to be a deity?

Two options:

• One or more of the kings is good, and knows that by becoming gods the others would be tyrants.
• One or two of the kingdoms are very small, and the others fear that their king would try to expand if he had godlike power.

...that would argue there was an apocalyptic event, either due to the thrones (in which case, usurpation would be in order) or in spite of the thrones (again, arguing for usurpation), or due to apathy in wanting to fix it and make sure subjects had enough to eat (once more, usurpation).

One wish in that case would be to 'fix' the damage of the apocalypse as an obvious wish.

Yeah, there should be tales of ridiculous natural disasters surrounding these thrones, either caused by them or stalled by them (or both).

[Arracor]

Ohey this thread is still alive. :O
If people are still interested, I can list off the intended miracles of the 5 current reigning monarchs. I can always use ideas, there's dozens upon dozens upon dozens of conspiracies to take the Thrones going on at any given time.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Ohey this thread is still alive. :O
If people are still interested, I can list off the intended miracles of the 5 current reigning monarchs. I can always use ideas, there's dozens upon dozens upon dozens of conspiracies to take the Thrones going on at any given time.

If you've got any more ideas, just dump them all here and we'll riff on them.

[Arracor]

Well, pretty simply:

One wishes to use the Thrones to purge the spirit realm of all its spirits, because said spirits did something horrible to her in her past and basically have a lasting curse on her race that killing them all would erase. (Spirits=fae)

One wishes to use the Thrones to ascend her race to what amounts to planar status, making them effectively akin to angels.

One wishes to use the Thrones to nullify themselves, forcing society to evolve past the limitations and stagnation of the Throne Cycle.

One wishes to use the Thrones to resurrect a legendary wise king, uniting the kingdoms into a grand empire under his eternal banner.

One doesn't care about wishes or miracles or what have you; he simply wishes to rule unchallenged, and he's willing to whore out miracles to whichever 4 lackeys of his are willing to let him have the world. (Since any wish has to be pretty specifically agreed on by all 5 Throne-users, there's no real risk for him since he has veto power on anything that might disturb his end goal.)

Prior to the current batch, I've got one more who was a nihilistic supremacist and wanted to flood the world entirely so his race (aquatic, of course) would be undisputed masters of the world.

[BootStrapTommy]

That all boots were hats.

That was a legitimate wish in a campaign before.

[Slayerofundead]

A drinking horn that never goes dry.
A cauldron that is always full of food.
A cloak of invisibility.
A ring of shapshifting.
Mastery over Dragons.

[jqavins]

When you wish upon a throne
Makes no difference what you own...

Two wishes, agreed to and achieved in long forgotten antiquity:***

• That the gods and other outsiders be barred from the world forever.
• That the world be divided into five kingdoms, ruled by the occupants of the thrones.

Potential current wishes:

• That I, I alone, just me, should be duplicated four times and occupy all five thrones forever.^*
• An end to war, poverty, and injustice. (Who says all who seek power do it for their own gain? Most of them, sure, but all? Why?)
  
• That the gods return.***
• The Destruction Of All Things.^**
• "Tell me about... fast breeder reactors."
• A corner on the global market in [iron | gold | cement | whatever].
• To know everything that there is to know in all the universe.

* I have four trusted friends who, by their temperments, don't want global power but have other goals of their own. I've promised to grant their wishes once I'm ensconsed in all the thrones.^**

** There was no requirement that the plans be sane.

*** Removed after feedback from the OP.

[Arracor]

That's the spirit!

[The Mentalist]

Potential Wishes (And my foreseen reactions to them)

A collective army: Imagine the Emerald Legion from these boards or the Golden Army from Hellboy, something big and indestructible that is under the same command as the thrones. All five rulers must agree on the actions of this nearly indestructible army. (Granted: Knowing that they cannot be used against any of them and can be used to maintain a status-quo, preventing minor uprisings, Big T rampages, used as political favors)

Universal Laws: A universal prohibition against various things. (Murder, theft, and so on) (Denied: Feared would restrict the leeway of plotting to manipulate the other throne holders)

Limited Wishes: By collective decree the thrones can grant each other a number of Limited Wishes with provisos. (Granted several times: Political bargaining, none currently available) NOTE: The limitations of these wishes are written out in contracts that would make Devils jealous. They are almost exclusively available to maintain order within the kingdoms.

Defenses: Things like warding the throne-rooms against Scrying & Teleportation (Can't guess: Would depend on the paranoia of the current arrangement, maybe the defenses have been granted and destroyed several times)

I would consider looking at the UN and seeing what they've been able/failed to pass and translating that to a magical setting.

[Grek]

Why not write a contract and then Wish for anyone who violates it to be struck dead?

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Why not write a contract and then Wish for anyone who violates it to be struck dead?

One or more rulers would recognize that this could lead them into a false sense of security. Anyone sitting on the thrones could nullify that contract. It would be rejected on principle unless everybody could be convinced that it's mutually beneficial. And why would I agree not to backstab the other kings unless the contract has a loophole that let's me backstab the other kings?

Any contract agreed upon by the five kings would be as flimsy as swiss cheese. "It says that we're not allowed to send our armies to attack each others' lands, but I can totally pay mercenaries to do that." "It says we're not allowed to order any of our underlings to seize each others' thrones, but nothing in the contract says I can't tell my generals I'll reward whoever can do it." "It says we're not allowed to send assassins to kill each other, but nothing's stopping me from adminstering poison to any gifts I send."

[Everyl]

Wishes:

- That I and my people shall never lack for good food and drink. (I'll wish it for your people at the same time if you support me on it!)

- That I shall live and reign from this throne forever.

- That horrible misfortune shall befall <insert disliked population group who doesn't control a throne>. (Horrible, but sadly a realistic)

- That my heirs shall forever be rulers of this kingdom. (Immortality by lineage)

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

- That I and my people shall never lack for good food and drink. (I'll wish it for your people at the same time if you support me on it!)

The king who owns all the famous vineyards vetoes that.

- That I shall live and reign from this throne forever.

The sharp king vetoes that. Something about, "a fate worse than death." He and the inbred king argue about it for hours and nothing productive gets done today.

- That horrible misfortune shall befall <insert disliked population group who doesn't control a throne>. (Horrible, but sadly a realistic)

The pious king vetoes that. You make a note to try again once he's dead.

- That my heirs shall forever be rulers of this kingdom. (Immortality by lineage)

The king whose brothers "vanished" a few months ago vetoes that, but asks you to come back with a more precise definition of "heir".

This sounds like a colossal waste of time. I would bet the kings only have these meetings once per month, and as soon as anybody gets offended and leaves the meeting is over. Some months they don't even show up and you have to send a delegation requesting they meet again.

[GorinichSerpant]

The king who owns all the famous vineyards vetoes that.

A counter argument would be that the good drink will come from said vineyards, and that those vineyards will always produce enough for said people at a minimal. Or even better add in a clause that the vineyards will only produce said amount if they are cared by people that are affiliated to the King.

Wishes made in such a manner would lead to institutions, business and so forth that should have gone under ages ago to stay alive and relevant do an ancient Wish. Or do to the wording of the Wish, they could partially exist, leading to some weird cases.

[jqavins]

- That I and my people shall never lack for good food and drink. (I'll wish it for your people at the same time if you support me on it!)

So how about this: One kingdom has renowned vinyards. Another has lush grasslands for growing grains. The third has fruit orchards. The fourth has livestock ranches, cattle, sheep, poultry, etc. And the fifth has a productive coastline and rivers and lakes so they produce lots of seafood. These are what they exported most before the wish, so the rulers see it in their mutual best interest to use a wish to keep thsese resources vital as well as each one agreeing to modest production limits and low export limits on the others' speciaties. (High enough that if, let's say, the coastal kindom has the best olive trees they can use their own olives and export some.) Any kingdom violating the export limits looses the magical protection for its main resource. (It wouldn't immediately dry up, but they'd be subject to nature.)

- That horrible misfortune shall befall <insert disliked population group who doesn't control a throne>. (Horrible, but sadly a realistic)

Or not so natural. If there is no moral person among the five monarchs, wish that all the people in one or more neighboring lands just drop dead or disappear so the land can be carved up between the five. (The "neutron bomb" wish.)

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

A counter argument would be that the good drink will come from said vineyards, and that those vineyards will always produce enough for said people at a minimal. Or even better add in a clause that the vineyards will only produce said amount if they are cared by people that are affiliated to the King.

Wishes made in such a manner would lead to institutions, business and so forth that should have gone under ages ago to stay alive and relevant do an ancient Wish. Or do to the wording of the Wish, they could partially exist, leading to some weird cases.

Well, there's an interesting idea. You have cities with magical technology to handle certain things like food dole and sewage, and yet skilled trades and knowledge of how the magic works are terrifyingly rare. Some of it is even starting to break down according to its own laws (not because the magic is failing, but because of faults in the wording and definitions used in the original wishes.)

• There are magical lights on all the city's streets, and you can pry up cobbles from the road and bring them into your home as a light source at night, but they quit working when the road is re-paved.
• The capitol has a granary which dispenses a full bag of grain to anyone who says a phrase in a dead language. If you mispronounce it or try to get it to work more than twice in a 24 hour period the granary will never give you anything again. The grain is always slightly musty and causes a severe rash in 10% of the population.
• The city's sewer grates destroy any liquid that falls through them. Sticking your hand into one is horribly painful, but survivable if you get to a healer ASAP. The current king will dangle people over them on a winch as a public torture method. On windy days you can't go into the streets without a filtered mask because the dust that blows out of the sewers is toxic (although it does make pretty good fertilizer).
• Anyone who says the name of a certain dead king will instantly die (painfully). This also includes random babblings, and children are told stories about forbidden syllables from an early age. Forbidden language is a legally recognized cause of death.
• Every citizen makes a pligrimage to certain temples or shrines once per year to buy a small tchotke from the priests. Those who do not are cursed with boils and blemishes. Those who were not born in the capitol seem to be immune to the boils and blemishes, but it's considered bad luck not to do it. Everyone is aware that the religion is a folly or curse caused by one king's desire to make his beloved's family rich, and the priests are either destitute or criminals serving a felonious sentence. Killing them is not a crime, and it's traditional to kick or spit on them when you make your purchase.

[jqavins]

I'm still tryig to think up some more new wishes that five people, five monarcs, might possibly agree on. Even allowing that one or more of them might be less than fully sane, it's hard. So what if the monarcs are also frustrated by this same trouble? So, one day they get just a little drunk and agree to this: a wish that, henceforward, the thrones must be used for a wish at least once per year or they will stop working until all five monarcs are replaced with new ones. Thus, they are forced to find something they can agree on now and then. There would, thenceforth, be lots of annual wishes for nice weather.

But this is still slightly off topic, I think. The original request from Arracor, if I'm not wrong, was for wishes that people might attempt to gain the thrones to make, rather than wishes for the sitting monarcs to make.

• To go back to childhood and have the chance to do life all over again, knowing what I know now.
• That all magic and monsters (including the thrones) disappear forever, so the world will be normal.
• To strike down the wicked and unholy.
• To bring back our home village, that was destroyed by [fire | bandits | invaders | a plague | the tyrant | whatever].
• Retcon away some great evil. (Y'know, the "Let's kill Hitler" wish.)

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

ISo, one day they get just a little drunk and agree to this: a wish that, henceforward, the thrones must be used for a wish at least once per year or they will stop working until all five monarcs are replaced with new ones. Thus, they are forced to find something they can agree on now and then. There would, thenceforth, be lots of annual wishes for nice weather.

I can get behind that. Keeps things interesting. How about having the following rules in place for the throne? Nobody needs to know their origin, they're just there and they're how the thrones work. However, all of the kings should know the rules. They should be inscribed on the throne, or written in giant golden letters in the mind-space they all share when they meet.

• Must be used once per year or the thrones automatically wish the five kings dead. (Exact definition is, "whoever has sovereign claim to the land the throne rests on").
• Cannot grant any wish that duplicates a previous wish from the thrones.
• Cannot directly undo any previous wish.

Adding a "one wish per year" limit would also make sense. Makes it impossible to clean up the mess for an entire year if you make a big mistake.

To go back to childhood and have the chance to do life all over again, knowing what I know now.

Very smart, you can get away with it because you time travel away from the danger of five kingdoms about to kill you.

What if this already happened once? Might be interesting to have five NPCs in the world with an almost supernatural amount of foresight.

That all magic and monsters (including the thrones) disappear forever, so the world will be normal.

Only if you were dealing with an end-of-the-world catastrophe. Certain radical organizations might support this idea. In fact, the radical organizations that support this idea might appear very benevolent and Lawful Good to a party of adventurers.

To strike down the wicked and unholy.

The gods might step in and interfere with that one. Either the good ones for it being a nasty contradiction that could harm their philosophical footing, or the evil ones for it being horribly damaging to their interests. Anyone evil would veto it, and the majority of good people would veto it if they put any thought into the problem. You would have to get five righteous fools to make that wish. (So, again, Lawful Good villains. Wheee!)

To bring back our home village, that was destroyed by [fire | bandits | invaders | a plague | the tyrant | whatever].

I bet that once the kings caught you, they would be amazed that you did this. "That's all you wished for!? You convinced five people to defy five kings to make that wish!? He must be lying! Take him to the torture chamber!"

Retcon away some great evil. (Y'know, the "Let's kill Hitler" wish.)

That's the obvious, easy one. If it's that evil, you have to ask why the kings aren't planning to do it.

[jqavins]

• Cannot grant any wish that duplicates a previous wish from the thrones.

We wish for a nice sunny day on May 1, 2015.
We wish for a nice sunny day on May 1, 2016.
We wish for a nice sunny day on May 1, 2017...

Only if you were dealing with an end-of-the-world catastrophe. Certain radical organizations might support this idea. In fact, the radical organizations that support this idea might appear very benevolent and Lawful Good to a party of adventurers.

Remember that the idea is to come up with lots of possible wishes that someone might persue. They don't have to be sensible, they don't have to be practical. This only takes one person who can persuade four other people that it would be a good idea, and then they might try for it. And fail. Arracor wants a bag full of wishes and it doesn't matter if they're outrageous.

The gods might step in and interfere with that one. Either the good ones for it being a nasty contradiction that could harm their philosophical footing, or the evil ones for it being horribly damaging to their interests. Anyone evil would veto it, and the majority of good people would veto it if they put any thought into the problem. You would have to get five righteous fools to make that wish. (So, again, Lawful Good villains. Wheee!)

Again, look back at the OP. There are no gods.

[Everyl]

As far as I can tell, the OP was asking for ideas for wishes that might be on someone's agenda, not necessarily for wishes that might have reasonably been enacted successfully. Wishes that could be enacted depend so heavily on factors that haven't been shared with us that I would have difficulty speculating on them. What races are in the setting? How divisive are ethnic and religious groups within the races-in-a-D&D-sense? What are relations like among various racial/ethnic/religious/etc. groups is the setting? How far apart are the thrones - neighboring kingdoms? Distant, but reachable lands? Entirely separate continents? What sort of technology (and/or routine magic) is available in the setting, and is it comparable in the lands around all five thrones, or are there regional disparities?

So I'll be sticking to general wishes and leaving the details up to the OP.

On the subject of wishing for good weather, if we're talking about agrarian societies, that's roughly synonymous with wishing for plentiful food and drink. I think that, while some kings and would-be kings would have lofty aspirations of altering the foundations of the world, a great many people would simply be seeking material benefits for themselves and their family/clan/followers/subjects/whatever. Given some of the darker aspects of human nature, wishing ill upon rival groups of people also sounds likely.

As for whether these wishes could ever be acted upon, that depends heavily on how the thrones are geographically distributed. If they're close enough together for the kings to be geopolitical rivals even without the thrones, then I'd expect a lot more paranoid scuttling of reasonable wishes. "I don't want to wish for bountiful harvests for everyone, my people have plenty of food and King Bob's people might use it to feed an army." "Queen Sue is having trouble with nomadic raiders on her eastern frontier. I'd join a wish for a plague on them, but I'm happy with her being distracted from what I have my people doing on her western border."

I think that the concept has a lot of potential. Wishes made in ages past could shape the modern world in all sorts of ways that people would take for granted. Perhaps the races that can interbreed with one another (humans, elves, orcs, etc) were all one race long ago, and throne-sitters made wishes to subdivide and "specialize" them long ago. If it was during the age of the lost empire, maybe the races were intended to be social castes, with a long-lived elven elite and strong-but-dumb orcs as menial laborers. There could be miracles that people take for granted - nobody understands why a river flows uphill to irrigate an otherwise-arid plateau, but it's been happening so long that hardly anyone thinks to question it.