Why hasn't V taken spell penetration yet?

[MrMercury]

Seriously? S/he is constantly complaining about spell resistance. If S/he took (greater) spell pen, this should mean most of the spells s/he casts would get through.

Is this something to do with V's supposedly poor wizard build? (I personally like the idea of blaster wizards, even if they aren't optimized.)

[Keltest]

The number of opponents that V faces with any sort of magical resistance are surprisingly few. Plus, spell penetration doesn't guarantee that you will get past the spell resistance. When facing an opponent like Z who has specifically built around that to fight someone, you still end up with an uphill battle.

[Yuki Akuma]

Vaarsuvius has five feats unaccounted for - she very well might have (Greater) Spell Penetration, and just keeps flubbing the caster level check. Or he just keeps forgetting to take it until after.

[MrMercury]

The number of opponents that V faces with any sort of magical resistance are surprisingly few. Plus, spell penetration doesn't guarantee that you will get past the spell resistance. When facing an opponent like Z who has specifically built around that to fight someone, you still end up with an uphill battle.

Just less uphill

And sure, they meet less people with spell resistance. But it just seems that it's at the more critically important times where s/he meets people with it. See---> the siege on azure city. If the disintegrate spell on the death knight went through, then the soldiers wouldn't have died, and they may have held the breach.

It just seems odd for a blaster wizard not to have spell pen

[Keltest]

Just less uphill

And sure, they meet less people with spell resistance. But it just seems that it's at the more critically important times where s/he meets people with it. See---> the siege on azure city. If the disintegrate spell on the death knight went through, then the soldiers wouldn't have died, and they may have held the breach.

It just seems odd for a blaster wizard not to have spell pen

As Yuki pointed out above, he may very well have it and just not announced it. It doesn't automatically mean that you can overcome any spell resistance, and it wouldn't create a visual change in his magic either.

[Quild]

See---> the siege on azure city. If the disintegrate spell on the death knight went through, then the soldiers wouldn't have died, and they may have held the breach.

1. The DK killed the enhanced soldiers before the disintegrate. He had time to kill a dozen (fourteen actually) additional guards though.
2. Since it didn't work, we somehow know that disintegrate was used because it wouldn't work.
3. Would a successful disintegrate have been sufficent to kill the DK? If not, he may have had time to kill the thirteen "young" guards. Not sure if the DK would had poor fortitude saves since he's undead.

[NerdyKris]

Just less uphill

And sure, they meet less people with spell resistance. But it just seems that it's at the more critically important times where s/he meets people with it. See---> the siege on azure city. If the disintegrate spell on the death knight went through, then the soldiers wouldn't have died, and they may have held the breach.

Then something else would have stopped Vaarsuvius from instantly killing the death knight. Like the death knight making his fortitude save the same way Hinjo and Roy do at other points. Or Vaarsuvius would have instantly killed it, and the comic would have continued without the punchline regarding the dragon head.

The soldiers wouldn't have held the breach, because they would have still retreated. Only 14 troops died to that blast from the death knight. That would not have held the breach any better against the thousands of hobgoblins. There was no way ANY number was going to hold it against thousands of troops. Pure physics would have forced the soldiers back.

[Reboot]

1. The hueceva killed the enhanced soldiers before the disintegrate.

Huecuva was the cleric, who Durkon killed in #453. Melee was Death Knight.

[Porthos]

The Giant doesn't roll dice before each encounter as he writes the story, you know,

I joke, but to make a point. Well, two points. The first is rather self-evident. If V is going to fail at something in battle, nothing he has on his character sheet is going to help him. He might be able to get in a good rant about how the laws of probability are making a mockery of his feat selection, but that'd be about it. Or he would just end up facing people where his mooted (G)SP wouldn't be enough. GSP only gives one a +4 cumulative to the check, after all.

The second point is, V is learing that lusting after MOAR DAKKA isn't necessarily the path he should be following. Therefore he might look toward making his magic more utilitarian in nature rather than "Make Sure Mah Fireball Gets Through". Now an argument could certanly be made that (G)SP does help him in that regard. But it's the why he would get it that would be important. If he got it because he thought it would make him more useful in the support role he seems to want to carve out for himself lately, that's one thing. It could be a sign of character growth (thus allowing a story reason for to be put in by Rich [while still allowing, as I noted above, for the possibilty for failure]).

OTOH, if it's to make sure that he proves his mastery over everyone else, and his magic truly is supreme, rather less so.

[zimmerwald1915]

This thread is moot. V can take her next feat at 18th level. 18th level is far enough away that the story will probably be resolved before she reaches it.

[Anarion]

Let's be honest here. If the thing has spell resistance that affects the story, V will roll a 1 every time that the spell resistance is important to prevent a spell from happening for the story and V will roll a 20 every time that it's important a spell work properly for the story.

God The Giant does not play dice.

[Rakoa]

This thread is moot. V can take her next feat at 18th level. 18th level is far enough away that the story will probably be resolved before she reaches it.

The question is not "why doesn't V take spell penetration at level 18?", luckily, but "why hasn't he yet?".

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Even if Vaarsuvius has, I doubt it would help, especially against Zz'dtri. In general, the plot moves to make sure the Vaarsuvius doesn't win all the time, and that involves making it so that they cannot overcome spell penetration or they would lose in some other way. Zz'dtri, who has built himself so that he has massive Spell Resistance, probably wouldn't care.

[ORione]

The question is not "why doesn't V take spell penetration at level 18?", luckily, but "why hasn't he yet?".

I doubt that V has gotten a feat-gaining level since facing off with Z.

[Rakoa]

I doubt that V has gotten a feat-gaining level since facing off with Z.

Which time? V's latest faceoff with Zz'dtri wasn't the first, nor was it V's first encounter against an enemy with spell resistance.

[D.One]

Maybe (s)he has Spell Penetration (and even Greater Spell Penetration). Maybe not. We don't know for sure.

I believe, as others have said, that the point of the question is moot, because (s)he will fail any check the story needs failed and succed in any check the story needs succeded, no matter what feats (s)he has.

The presence (or absence) of SP (GSP) could only result in some comment like "Blasted Spell Resistance! Even with my SP, I can't beat it." or "If I had taken GSP..."

[ORione]

Which time? V's latest faceoff with Zz'dtri wasn't the first, nor was it V's first encounter against an enemy with spell resistance.

The latest one. Don't be purposely obtuse.

Sure, Z's not the only one with spell resistance, but there are lots of useful feats out there, and spell resistance hasn't come up that often.

[ti'esar]

It's also worth considering that Vaarsuvius had every reason to consider Z gone for good after the lawyers dragged him away.

[goto124]

*tries to make Will save against making immature jokes about 'penetration'*

[Gwynfrid]

Two reasons:
- One has been stated time and again: The OOTS members aren't well-optimized characters and never were meant to be.
- For all we know, V has Spell Penetration; it changes nothing to the storytelling, so it changes nothing to which of V's spells will be resisted. If an enemy is meant to be a true challenge to V, then it will have high enough SR to resist a large portion of V's spells, irrespective of Spell Penetration. Why? Because otherwise, that enemy can't be a challenge, so the question is moot.

[Fish]

I'm on the side of moot.

For one thing, if V did have Spell Penetration, it's not as if he announces it prior to casting. From a story-telling standpoint, that wouldn't scan very well for the lay reader. Your average non-D&D fan would say, "Spell penetration? That's a thing? Okay, fine ... so why didn't it help? Why didn't V win that battle just now, when he had the spell penetration thing? Why didn't he use it in that other battle? This comic makes no sense." Of course, the flip side is the D&D experts saying, "Why doesn't V have this or that feat? It would mean the difference between losing and winning!"

Well, no. No, it would not.

V is going to win the battles when the story says it is possible to win, and lose the battles when it is not yet time. Furthermore, V will win the battles in the manner that the storyteller proscribes, and not because of a particular feat, die roll, saving throw, or other game-related mechanism. Remember when V defeated Xykon with a familiar and Explosive Runes? Victory is based on what happens in the story, not what feats the characters have. Sure, Xykon wasn't "defeated" as in "utterly destroyed," but that's the point: all of their victories are on the story's terms, not on the game's terms. Announcing or elucidating Spell Penetration, as a storytelling device, would only muddy the waters.

[Flame of Anor]

Furthermore, V will win the battles in the manner that the storyteller proscribes

*prescribes. To proscribe is to forbid or outlaw.

[Quild]

*prescribes. To proscribe is to forbid or outlaw.

Yeah, that's Rich's problem with wizards, they get exactly where he doesn't want them to go

[Rakoa]

Yeah, that's Rich's problem with wizards, they get exactly where he doesn't want them to go

Vaarsuvious saves his family from the Ancient Black Dragon. Rich nods in agreement. Vaarsuvious announces he is going to take down Xykon. Rich looks down at the computer in horror, and starts scribbling, but it is too late. V teleports into the throne room, and Rich begins to sweat profusely and rapidly tries to think of a way to get his story back on track. Curse this uppity Wizard! How dare you go where Rich proscribes?

Of course, Rich still won that battle.