EMPIRE! CWBG XIII: F5: Document Spirits F10: Summon Balepig, Keeper of Oaths

[Philote]

To be fair, tech slots are arbitrary to begin with. There is no reason that Shintouite and Solar Ray towers could not already be used together except for non-fluff balance reasons. This is not a problem, but it should stay on the mechanics / balancing side of the discussion.

I could just create a tech named [Improved Fortifications] and would need no more fluff than the name, but where is the fun in that. I'm introducing my own style into the world by including the garb. The garb can not magically turn into Shintouite on its own anyways, it would need the required techs and resources before it could do anything. The variable property of garb is the only thing being used, and simply being used as a controlling device.

You're asking me to create three techs and use several months in order to accomplish a mechanic you've already approved of? There has to be a better way.

[Aedilred]

Edit: Quinton's a ninja.

One side is fluff and the other side is mechanics. Are you asking me to create one tech that does nothing just to create another tech later on?

I should note that this is actually a thing. Calculus, Fluid Dynamics and Steam Power, and possibly others that I've forgotten about, have no direct effect in themselves but act as stepping-stones or combination opportunities for (sometimes hypothetical) further technologies.

Such a tech doesn't even necessarily have to do nothing, but in general the broader the applicability of a tech the less any mechanical benefit it imparts. Refrigeration, for instance, is a serious fluff tech but has a negligible mechanical impact (at least, for everyone except nomads). This proposed tech has a broad application fluffwise and a fairly significant - if laborious to gain - mechanical effect.

There is no limit on the number of technologies that can be built off a given resource but in this case it's more like multiple techs rolled into one, which is kind of the opposite.

To be fair, tech slots are arbitrary to begin with. There is no reason that Shintouite and Solar Ray towers could not already be used together except for non-fluff balance reasons. This is not a problem, but it should stay on the mechanics / balancing side of the discussion.

They both are and are not arbitrary, I think. As I mentioned previously, there is a fluff reason why techs in the same slot usually don't stack and it was thought that slots were a better way to handle it than making technologies more generic across the board. Taking metallurgy as an example, you can't wear a mithril helmet and an adamantine helmet. Or at least if you can the disadvantages will be worse than any advantage you gain. So it's silly for them to stack by default. C10ing a technology where both are used in a way that gets the best of both might be possible (e.g. making use of the lightness of mithril and the toughness of adamantine), but would require further research and development.

Fortifiations are slightly more arbitrary as things stand but it's possible further technologies could be developed which make less sense to stack. Even with these I think the design of a solar tower, which takes a bit of know-how and effort to build and may require a specific design, could conceivably be difficult to incorporate into a shintouite fortress built for maximum effectiveness (especially since a shintouite fortress can't easily be redesigned after construction).

[QuintonBeck]

To be fair, tech slots are arbitrary to begin with. There is no reason that Shintouite and Solar Ray towers could not already be used together except for non-fluff balance reasons. This is not a problem, but it should stay on the mechanics / balancing side of the discussion.

I could just create a tech named [Improved Fortifications] and would need no more fluff than the name, but where is the fun in that. I'm introducing my own style into the world by including the garb. The garb can not magically turn into Shintouite on its own anyways, it would need the required techs and resources before it could do anything. The variable property of garb is the only thing being used, and simply being used as a controlling device.

You're asking me to create three techs and use several months in order to accomplish a mechanic you've already approved of? There has to be a better way.

You could do Improved Fortifications and combine 2 Fortifications, yes. That would make sense and presumably would requires stone or some other building material that could logically combine them.

I appreciate you're trying to do something unique but the logic doesn't follow with what you're doing at the moment and there's been no build up or explanation that makes it where Garb makes sense being employed in this fashion. That's what the proposed Techs would do (It's only 2 by the way) Also important to note I approved the effects, not the techs.

Anyway, this conversation is effectively over in any event. The proposal for Garb to work here and now for this is unacceptable, it doesn't make logical sense given the fluff or explanation. You can pursue the two tech path I proposed if you want to go down the "turn Grab into a thing that can adapt and combine multiple techs" or you can go down the "Improved Fortifications" road if you want to get stacking fortifications here and now.

[Philote]

Is there the guarantee that I'll be allowed to do this?

[Fluff Tech = "Does Nothing"]
[Fortification Tech = "Allow the use of any two fortification techs within the fortification tech slot"]

[QuintonBeck]

Is there the guarantee that I'll be allowed to do this?

[Fluff Tech = "Does Nothing"]
[Fortification Tech = "Allow the use of any two fortification techs within the fortification tech slot"]

Yep. With the caveat that Fluff Tech allows future techs that incorporate garb as you've apparently intended to take it to different things down the road. Fort tech wouldn't use garb as a resource either, like I said, probably a construction material like Stone or Wood.

[Philote]

Whats the point of making it a two step tech if the second tech doesn't build off the first?

[Multitool] ---> [Transformative Materials]

[QuintonBeck]

Whats the point of making it a two step tech if the second tech doesn't build off the first?

The second one does build off the first? That's exactly what I'm saying? It's a very big tech impact (not mechanically, but implications-wise) to wrap up in one tech, it works if you stretch it out over 2, then you can even create a 3rd based off the first one similar to the 2nd one that applies to different things than the 2nd one did/does.

[Philote]

The first tech would be [Multitool] a fluff tech that involves Garb. The second would be [Transformative Materials] the fortification tech also involving Garb.

[QuintonBeck]

The first tech would be [Multitool] a fluff tech that involves Garb. The second would be [Transformative Materials] the fortification tech also involving Garb.

This is pretty much what I'm proposing, yep.

[Soommor]

I'm really sorry to say Philote, but it really does sound like you're not getting this through without a few changes or some extra hassle on the way.

While I really like the idea of the 'Garb' that can be used to change and enhance the properties of things, (one of the most awesome bits of fluff I've seen so far), I can also see why Quinton is so concerned with making sure this resource is correctly controlled. Without anything major in the way to stop you, you would be more or less capable of buffing nearly every aspect of your gameplay. If you can use this cloth to make towering walls even more towering, you could make a sword sharp enough to cut through anything, unpiercable armour, assassins that can't be seen, crops that grow faster, workers that never tire. Without the correct control this could become out of hand.

I'm not saying that was your intention, or that if you could you would do this. I'm merely saying, for Quinton, who needs to control the balance of the game, which is fairly delicate, it seems like something that could really mess people up if it was abused.

Just my thoughts,
Soommor.

[Aedilred]

The native folk of Hringboga are a giant-like race called the Naedre... They typically stand around four meters high, with their tail reaching lenghts of around 7 meters.

That's pretty damn big

[Durmatagno]

That's pretty damn big

Not the only giants running around, region 154 has Basahuan, 20 foot tall giants.

Also, as I don't see anywhere that says where to post for trying to join, gonna put it here, and put a copy wherever I'm directed

The Kingdom of Dekboard

Dekboard
Region 152, Durmatagno

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/shows...&postcount=915

Kingdom Luck?: 1

King Tet Dekboard

Current Stats:
Diplomacy: 2
Military: 4
Curiosity: 5
Faith: 2


Population: 1,110,000

Original Stats:

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Diplomacy: 2
Military: 4
Curiosity: 5
Faith: 2

Terrain

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Dekboard is a cold, mountainous.While it is relatively flat at the regions borders, at the center of the northern half stands three tall, white (the actual rock) mountains with an odd shape. These three mountains are known as the Shattered Fort, but the Lorveyo that inhabit the region no longer remember why, but they do know that the mountains have an odd shape. When faced from the right angle from both the east and west, from the Region's capital, and it's second largest city, the three mountains line up to look like, at least the top quarter, a white king piece from chess.Surrounding these mountains are gentle hills that flow into the flat plains that make up the northen halfs borders.

The south, however, is dominated by a mountain range covered in snow, and a boreal forest. The Boreal forest is know as Silverleaf Forest, and as you go deeper to the center, there is a sudden break into a deep valley, with a frozen lake, beneath it's waters the top of some kind of stone spire can be seen, and this is know as The Lake of Drowned Keep, though no one knows what the structure beneath the ice actually is.

Finally, the Capital City of Dekboard, Elrika, was built on the shores of the sea, know as The Sea of the Forgotten, from which a massive geyser erupts twice a year in the cities harbour, once at he Summer Equinox, and once at the Winter Equinox. This geyser is known simply as Remembrance, and around it, a thriving coral reef has formed, heated by the steam constantly pouring from the geyser between large eruptions.

People:

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The People of Dekboard call themselves Dekboardians, but as a race they are better known as the Lorveyo. While they look incredibly similar to humans, there is one major difference. The eyes of the Lorveyo, besides always seeming to have a metallic glint, will faintly glow in the night. Physically Lorveyo appear identical to humans, but their bodies are more flexiable, can move with greater speed, and can jump much higher then a human, allowing them to traverse mountains like a mountain goat. Despite this, in combat they wear lighter armor to retian their flexiablity and speed. While they can see better at night then a human, they are still reliant on light from the stars, and moon to see.

(Fluff to mechanics terms: In order for their military units to still be balanced against others, despite their great speed, and agility, they have to wear little to no armor, making any hits against them much worse than a soldier from a normal human unit)

Lorveyo are, however, wired strangely internally. Their name comes from an ancient version of their current language, and crudely translates to English as "Playful." Lorveyo are, in their most relaxed state, energetic, and love to play. While they live to be 250, they physically mature at the same rates as humans, but they aren't considered fully adults till they reach the age of 20. During those first 20 years, they spend most of their days playing, but the games aren't all a waste a time like they would appear. Among other things, a popular variant of chess has appeared in the region that allows for up to eight players, each fielding the normal range of units found in chess, and the turn order decided each turn by a simple roll of the dice. Besides that, the children brawl with each other using light sticks, and race to climb, strengthening their bodies, and letting them learn to defend themselves. Finally, they are all taught the basics of reading, and writing, in order to play word games that help them expand their knowledge of the world. Their emotions are also far more intense than that of a human, a small amount of anger to them is greater than an equivalent amount in a human, but the same goes for joy, love, and sadness. Because of this, their cities constantly ring with the sounds of laughter, and music echos through the streets.

At the age of 120, a Lorveyo is said to pass from adulthood, into Elder status. As Elders, they are no longer required to work, or contribute directly, only watch the children, and live the rest of their lives however they please, and as such, most of the craftsmen are of this age, having spent their younger years doing labor jobs. This rule applies even among the nobles, head of the house passes when the current head decides to become an Elder, usually at 120, but sometimes later, and this goes even for the Royal Family.

Their clothes are usually bright, and flashy, but don't restrict bodily movement. Even the plain garb of peasants would be bright and flashy elsewhere. With this, they also tend to wear their hair at shoulder length, and have bright, vibrant versions of the normal human colors, with a touch of blue mixed in with black as one of the rarer hair colors. Fiery red hair currently dominates the current Royal line, the Dekboards, founder of the Kingdom of Dekboard in the region of Dekboard. Lorveyo are actually a cousain of humans, a little more distant than Neanderthals would be, and adapted to the environment of Dekboard.

Resources

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Good Marble - The hills, and mountains of Dekboard are rich with this stone, which makes up a majority of the stone buildings in the nation. It is also used to make arrowheads so that young children can practice without spending money on more expensive metal heads. Thankfully, marble can also be used as a flux stone for steel production.

Good Timber - With half the region dominated by a Boreal Forest, on top of the rich marble beneath the soil, high quality wood is readily availble in the region, and anything not made of stone is made of good wood. Thankfully this also means access charcoal because the region lacks any serious amount of coal.

Good Iron - Buried inside of the Marble that dominates the region, despite not normally being there, lies large deposits of iron that Dekboard relies on in order to keep a well equipped military.

Needed Resource - Food: While the there is a rich reef fed by steam vents, and geysers, the people of Dekboard can't access them without a huge risk of wrecking thanks to the steam that hangs around everywhere, and the soil in the areas where the people could farm is infertile, and hard, unsuitable for more than small crops. Because of this, Dekboard can barely put enough food in peoples mouths to keep them alive, let alone fill them up, and even the Royal family eats as little as it can so everyone can share the limited food.

Religion: Animist, but slowly evolving to be more complex.

Technologies: None (New Nation)

Family Tree:

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85 Year Old King Tet Dekboard - 83 Year Old Queen Nani Dekboard
15 Year Old Princess Robin Dekboard (No Siblings)

[QuintonBeck]

Round Open in Approximately 5 Hours

Durm Looks good to me. You can move it on into this thread Your people sound like Fae/Fae-Blooded folks and surprisingly similar to Kitsanth's Niskans of the Sovereign Principality of Niskovia/Commonwealth of Lorvyn (even some similar names there) I don't know how much is on the wiki (though there is stuff in the Lands thread) but the wiki is just generally useful so link

[Morph Bark]

Wait, hold up. Wasn't the round close going to be on Monday? I just came home from being gone all day, so I'm quite surprised to see the round being closed now.

[Mynxae]

Wait, hold up. Wasn't the round close going to be on Monday? I just came home from being gone all day, so I'm quite surprised to see the round being closed now.

But dear Morph, it is Monday!

In Australia... Mwahahahaha...

[Snowfire]

Wait, hold up. Wasn't the round close going to be on Monday? I just came home from being gone all day, so I'm quite surprised to see the round being closed now.

Likewise...

I was under the impression that we had until the usual sort of time Monday to have everything in order.

[Lord_Burch]

Likewise...

I was under the impression that we had until the usual sort of time Monday to have everything in order.

Well, it appears that QB has deleted his round closure post. So... Have at it?

[QuintonBeck]

Sorry all, I had more time than I'd expected to have. I gotta say, I don't really know why people were waiting until Sunday since that isn't normally round close and was an exception and getting in right under the line is a bit weird, but nevertheless I'll stick with what I said and round open will be tomorrow. Approximately 13-14 hours from now.

[Durmatagno]

Round Open in Approximately 5 Hours

Durm Looks good to me. You can move it on into this thread Your people sound like Fae/Fae-Blooded folks and surprisingly similar to Kitsanth's Niskans of the Sovereign Principality of Niskovia/Commonwealth of Lorvyn (even some similar names there) I don't know how much is on the wiki (though there is stuff in the Lands thread) but the wiki is just generally useful so link

Heh, wasn't expecting that. That said, if a race appears once, it becomes more likely that there's similar people in the world, even if they come from different sources.

[BladeofObliviom]

I lacked inspiration and set myself an extra day to edit in a final action.

Anyway my actions should be final now, though I won't promise that I won't add more rumors if it suits my fancy.

[Reggiejam]

I like your fluff piece Sam. It's pretty cool!

[Durmatagno]

Planning out a handful of my actions in advance, but quick question, do regions for brand new nations start with any military?

[TheDarkDM]

Planning out a handful of my actions in advance, but quick question, do regions for brand new nations start with any military?

They do not.

[Durmatagno]

They do not.

Right, makes my first turn a bit simpler then I'd like, but no big deal

[HalfTangible]

They do not.

Unless you spend your five free actions to MAKE a military, but I don't think that was the question.

[Elemental]

[QUOTE=Durmatagno;19199008]...once at he Summer Equinox, and once at the Winter Equinox.[/SPOILER]

Do you perhaps mean Summer and Winter Solstice?

Other than that, I like it. They share their love of colour with Jarrland and their love of festivities with Palas Caercia who are the major powers in that part of the world. And I agree with Quinton, they definitely do seem Faeblooded.

[Durmatagno]

[QUOTE=Elemental;19202637]

...once at he Summer Equinox, and once at the Winter Equinox.[/SPOILER]

Do you perhaps mean Summer and Winter Solstice?

Other than that, I like it. They share their love of colour with Jarrland and their love of festivities with Palas Caercia who are the major powers in that part of the world. And I agree with Quinton, they definitely do seem Faeblooded.

Yeeeah, I wrote the thing up on my phone while I was in bed because I couldn't sleep, probably auto-corrected or my lack of sleep messed it up, but it's a simple fix.

Oh they are Faeblooded, but I left it vague because they don't know, they're in a cold, harsh area of the planet, and have lost most of their past history. It leaves plenty of Curiosity actions to try and uncover the past, find lost resources, and at least one great project, maybe more. The sunken building in the lake, the strange trio of mountains, and then I noticed that region 154 has this

Atalya Anoche is a vast watchtower literally carved from a mountain. Or, to be more precise, an entire mountain was carved and crafted into a vast watchtower. It lies at the point of deep, geochemically warmed valley surrounded by a glacier. Its massive dimensions tie it to the cast structures of region 153 and beyond. It is considered a haunted place by the Basahuan. It is said to glow on certain nights, providing a waypoint for travelers in the wild.

And decided that it fit perfectly, maybe it's not from the Lorveyo/Dekboard's past, but it would have most definitely been connected. Combined with the two I have, it definitely speaks about something big having happened in the region at some point in the past.

I have, purely species wise, giants to my direct west, some bird people directly to my north, and some tall, pale, burly people to my north-east, not as big as the giants, and I hesitate to call them ogres, so there being faeblooded around the area isn't a big stretch. Then there's still unexplored, and unclaimed regions nearby that could have even more odd races, and structures.

[SamBurke]

I like your fluff piece Sam. It's pretty cool!

Thanks! I'm finishing up Wesley's storyline soon, and I wanted to make sure that at the very least, his Apotheosis subplot got fleshed out. It'll be changing Guilder's style more than a little.

Right, makes my first turn a bit simpler then I'd like, but no big deal

Going M5 for all units is a pretty solid starting turn anyway; people also use it for big projects and the like.

[QuintonBeck]

Round Close in 1 Hour

EDIT:

Round 40 Open

[Gengy]

QB, I think you mean Round 41 Open.

*cough*

I'm sure that I'm just seeing things, though.


Clarification: Did the Makgrull reclaim the sword from the dead Shark or not?