Unarmed Warblade

[Kazuel]

So I'll be DMing a new game of 3.5 and while I'm a fairly experienced player, I don't have much DMing cred. So a player wants to play a monk. My first reaction was to direct her to the unarmed swordsage. She then did a little change of heart and wanted to play any armed Warblade so that she could fill the front line fighter role. This group seems to be a low to mid optimization group. Are there any pit falls I'm not seeing in allowing a warblade to trade weapon aptitude for improved unarmed strike?

[atemu1234]

Not really. I mean, there's not much of a penalty either way.

[DeltaEmil]

Why not just let the warblade take Improved Unarmed Strike as a feat normally, and later Superior Unarmed Strike? Or, if feats are too valuable, let the warblade use spiked gauntlets, or find a monk's belt?

[Loxagn]

I'd honestly let him swap it out for the monk's full unarmed strike progression. It's not really that big a deal.

[Karl Aegis]

Unarmed strikes are associated with Stone Dragon and Tiger Claw disciplines for the warblade. Combining the two lets you do a Heaven-and-Earth fight as one style, being specialized in aerial and grounded maneuvers. Leaping Dragon, Charging Minotaur and what-not.

[danzibr]

You can take inspiration from the unarmed Swordsage variant and let him swap out weapon proficiency and whatever for unarmed stuff. Unless he has feats to blow.

Also, I love the Heaven and Earth stuff.

[Zaq]

Using unarmed strikes is almost always a strict downgrade from just using a weapon. You can't two-hand an unarmed strike (so you can't get 1.5 times your STR to damage, nor can you get double returns on Power Attack), and you can't enchant it to make it magical. The only real benefit is style. (And, I guess, Snap Kick, but even then, you can still hold a sword for your non-Snap Kick attacks.) So really, if a player wants to use unarmed strikes just because unarmed strikes are cool, there's no harm in just letting them. Give them the full Monk progression, Unarmed Swordsage-style; they'll still end up less powerful than just picking up a weapon. They're already putting themselves at a disadvantage, so there's no balance-related need to charge them build resources (feats, etc.) for the privilege.

[danzibr]

Seconding Zaq.

It certainly wouldn't be too much to give them both IUS and base unarmed damage as Monk. In fact, you could throw in a few extra goodies and they'd still be a bit weaker than their weapon-wielding counterpart.

[justiceforall]

Seconding Zaq.

It certainly wouldn't be too much to give them both IUS and base unarmed damage as Monk. In fact, you could throw in a few extra goodies and they'd still be a bit weaker than their weapon-wielding counterpart.

If its more about the Warblade theme, and less about the Warblade itself, what about Monk x/Warblade x/Shadow Sun Ninja x?

[Kazuel]

I appreciate all the help but in the end she has decided to go with a weaponry warblade because she didn't feel it was going to give her the character she wanted with going unarmed. But at least now my group has a front line tank. Thanks again.

[Karl Aegis]

Having a tank is a good way to have to reroll your character. Being targeted at all could lead to expenditure of resources above and beyond what is necessary.

[danzibr]

Having a tank is a good way to have to reroll your character. Being targeted at all could lead to expenditure of resources above and beyond what is necessary.

Actually, Warblades can make great tanks. Not only do they have the right hd and armor, but they also get maneuvers to use their Concentration instead of their saves, and the famous Iron Heart Surge.

[Red Fel]

Actually, Warblades can make great tanks. Not only do they have the right hd and armor, but they also get maneuvers to use their Concentration instead of their saves, and the famous Iron Heart Surge.

There's a difference between being a beefstick - that is, something that can take abuse, which Warblades can easily do - and being a "tank" - that is, something that can "force" (note the quotes, see below) enemies to prioritize it over allies, which Warblades cannot easily do.

TTRPGs do not generally work like computerized RPGs, and there are very few guaranteed methods of forcing enemies to focus on you. Crusaders have some of the best methods, and people often speak well of the Knight, but Warblade just doesn't make the cut. A Warblade can be built to take and give abuse, no question, but the best means that ToB offers to draw enemy fire come from the Devoted Spirit school, which falls strictly within the bailiwick of the Crusader.

OP, be sure to let your player know this. If she wants a front-line combatant, Warblade is a fine choice, but if her goal is to "tank," it's basically Crusader or (almost) nothing.

[Zaq]

There's a difference between being a beefstick - that is, something that can take abuse, which Warblades can easily do - and being a "tank" - that is, something that can "force" (note the quotes, see below) enemies to prioritize it over allies, which Warblades cannot easily do.

TTRPGs do not generally work like computerized RPGs, and there are very few guaranteed methods of forcing enemies to focus on you. Crusaders have some of the best methods, and people often speak well of the Knight, but Warblade just doesn't make the cut. A Warblade can be built to take and give abuse, no question, but the best means that ToB offers to draw enemy fire come from the Devoted Spirit school, which falls strictly within the bailiwick of the Crusader.

OP, be sure to let your player know this. If she wants a front-line combatant, Warblade is a fine choice, but if her goal is to "tank," it's basically Crusader or (almost) nothing.

While I do not disagree with this, there's also something to be said for getting up in your opponents' faces and doing enough damage that they can't afford to ignore you, which Warblades can certainly do. It's not a hard-aggro mechanic that forces enemies to pay attention to you, but it can still be pretty effective, especially if you've got some way of preventing them from weaseling past you (which, admittedly, the Crusader does better with Thicket of Blades, but still).

[Kazuel]

The term "tank" was used more in the general sense than what it's normally associated with in MMOs. I think she'll be happy with the choice and it will fit into the game.