Building a Computer

[Blackhawk748]

Im planning on building a computer (duh) and i need a bit of a hand. Now i used to know what graphics card was better than another, what motherboards not to use etc, but its been awhile and now im confused lol So if you guys have any recommendations i would be very appreciative.

The Goal: a Future Proofed Gaming Computer (i dont want to think about upgrading something for at least 5 years) that is portable.

Ill probably go with a Fenix Prodigy for the case and ive already got a few ideas for my harddrive (gonna get a few terrabytes) but past that im a bit overwhelmed.

[wumpus]

How do you define "future-proof"? I think you can look at Intel's roadmap and be reasonably confident that there won't be an AMD64 compatible chip noticably more powerful than current chips (although they might be a lot cooler in a tiny case). The GPU side will be trickier: chips have been improving even on the same process, and chips are finally moving on to better processes. VR seems likely to be a disruptive force: later GPUs with the ability to output a line at a time (whereas current GPUs need specifically compatible screens to draw the specific screen at a time).

For builds that aren't limited by the case, I recommend: http://www.logicalincrements.com/
and expect that it will be helpful even in your case (sorry).

[factotum]

Future-proof for 5 years just ain't going to happen at the speed development happens in the PC realm, unless you spend lots and lots of money on the absolute top-end kit you can get right now. It would actually be cheaper to buy a mid-range PC now and then buy another mid-range one in 2.5 years time than it would be to buy one powerful enough to last for 5!

[Flickerdart]

The best way to future-proof your computer is to buy a decent machine right now and then invest in some really nice aftermarket cooling a few years down the road, then overclock everything until your computer starts melting.

[Nai_Calus]

The computer I built last year is already on the verge of 'obsolete' and the worst things in it are still in or equivalent to the 'Very Good' category on the site wumpus posted. Granted it was a mid-end build that would have been around 1100 if I'd bought everything.

Any particular reason for the fairly limiting Mini-ITX case? I mean, you can build gaming PCs in them, but... Wouldn't an ATX mid/full-tower be better? Most Mini-ITX builds I've heard of are people wanting smallish computers or a budget system. Your stated case is rather in conflict with your stated goals.

My advice: Build a computer that's fairly beefy but not horribly expensive. It will be usable, but not relevant, for five years. I can't predict the future to tell you if the best CPU you can buy today will still be relevant for gaming five years from now, but it's almost a given you'll need at least a GPU upgrade.

Then after a few years, do it again. Reuse the parts that are still decent - Or compatible. This will be less than you'd hope. XD;

We're about to shift things again, don't forget. DDR4 is technically here already, though not really ready for wide consumption yet, we're getting new Intel CPUs before too long, it may be best to just wait a while and see what comes up.

[Balmas]

If I might offer a suggestion?

I'm going to back up what most other people here are saying. Consider ditching the mini-ITX case. I'd actually recommend the Cooler Master Storm Scout if you want a portable gaming box. It's only a few inches bigger in the vertical and horizontal than the Fenix, has big, robust carrying handles, and has the room and airflow for a full ATX board and gaming peripherals. If you want to future proof, ATX boards also offer more RAM capacity, more PCI expansion slots, more room for hard drives and SSDs. Plus, you can fit a really beefy aftermarket air or water-cooling system, so you can overclock everything without suffering too much from heat.

[Blackhawk748]

If I might offer a suggestion?

I'm going to back up what most other people here are saying. Consider ditching the mini-ITX case. I'd actually recommend the Cooler Master Storm Scout if you want a portable gaming box. It's only a few inches bigger in the vertical and horizontal than the Fenix, has big, robust carrying handles, and has the room and airflow for a full ATX board and gaming peripherals. If you want to future proof, ATX boards also offer more RAM capacity, more PCI expansion slots, more room for hard drives and SSDs. Plus, you can fit a really beefy aftermarket air or water-cooling system, so you can overclock everything without suffering too much from heat.

Ok just look at the Storm Scout, and that thing is sweet. I went with the Fenix because my cousin recommended it as a portable case and at the time it was the only one i knew of. So im probably gonna switch to the Storm Scout.

And ok, 5 years is apparently not feasible, my hopes and dreams are shattered lol So anyone got recommendations for a decent graphics card? My goal currently is to play Lichdom Battlemage on Ultra. Not sure how rough that is comparatively to other games but it does seem on the higher end.

[Balmas]

Ok just look at the Storm Scout, and that thing is sweet. I went with the Fenix because my cousin recommended it as a portable case and at the time it was the only one i knew of. So im probably gonna switch to the Storm Scout.

And ok, 5 years is apparently not feasible, my hopes and dreams are shattered lol So anyone got recommendations for a decent graphics card? My goal currently is to play Lichdom Battlemage on Ultra. Not sure how rough that is comparatively to other games but it does seem on the higher end.

Do you have an idea of your budget? If we know how much you want to spend, it can help us give you a rough estimate of what you can afford. Might be the difference between an R9 290 and a GTX 980.

A quick google search shows that a GTX 760 is about the minimum GPU that would meet Lichdom Battlemage recommended stats. However, with the recent improvements in graphics cards--the GTX 970 is a major disruptive force in the GPU world--I really can't say it's what I'd choose. That's especially true with your desire to future-proof your computer. I'd probably recommend either the GTX 970 or 980, depending on how much money you have to spare. A 970 will play all modern games at good settings and framerate if you're using standard 1920x1080 monitors. It'll even do 4K for some older games like TF2.

How important is a quiet PC? Do you plan to do any recording? Maybe some overclocking? If the answer to any of these is yes, then aftermarket cooling might be in order. It might also mean we may need some extra RAM, or better RAM.

[wobner]

Ok just look at the Storm Scout, and that thing is sweet. I went with the Fenix because my cousin recommended it as a portable case and at the time it was the only one i knew of. So im probably gonna switch to the Storm Scout.

And ok, 5 years is apparently not feasible, my hopes and dreams are shattered lol So anyone got recommendations for a decent graphics card? My goal currently is to play Lichdom Battlemage on Ultra. Not sure how rough that is comparatively to other games but it does seem on the higher end.

you really need to specificy what you mean by future proof, because obsolete to some people, simply means there is something better, where as to the rest of the world, obsolete means it can no longer do what it was intended to do.

any game company with an ounce of common sense is not going to have requirements so severe that a solid computer from 5 years ago isn't going to be able to play it. Will you get all the bells and whistles? no. Will you be able to play the game, will it be fluid and stable, in five years, yeah. So you have to use smaller textures, reduce veiw distance, turn off some lighting effects or go with simple reflections. turn of shadows or reduce their detail, etc. etc. These options exist for a reason, and the game will likely still look good and be playable. as an example, i'm looking at the supposed minimum requires for GTA5, and they are from 7 years ago.

and in the current enviorment, When a computer truely does become *obsolete* for gaming, most extreme upgrades can be put off for atleast a year or two with a simple graphics card upgrade. I know you don't want to upgrade anything, but thats a pretty simple fix for extending the life of the machine.

My last computer, top of the line when i assembled it, lasted over 10 years able to play the latest games, just with many of the graphics features reduced or turned off(it actually lasted 14 because i lost all interest in playing the latest and greatest crap to spill out of the industry, but i digress) all i had to do was buy 1 extra stick of ram and a new graphics card, which was moot cause the old graphics card died anyway.

so, are you someone who absolutely has to have the greatest visuals possible? if so, sure 5 years is unfeasable. Are you someone who just wants to be able to play the top titles that come out, even if you have to reduce quality to do so, 5 years is totally do able. Obviously i am *extremely* forgiving when it comes to visuals, but still, 5 years is totally reasonable for a reasonable person. so if you could clarify
(end mini rant)

[Blackhawk748]

Do you have an idea of your budget? If we know how much you want to spend, it can help us give you a rough estimate of what you can afford. Might be the difference between an R9 290 and a GTX 980.

A quick google search shows that a GTX 760 is about the minimum GPU that would meet Lichdom Battlemage recommended stats. However, with the recent improvements in graphics cards--the GTX 970 is a major disruptive force in the GPU world--I really can't say it's what I'd choose. That's especially true with your desire to future-proof your computer. I'd probably recommend either the GTX 970 or 980, depending on how much money you have to spare. A 970 will play all modern games at good settings and framerate if you're using standard 1920x1080 monitors. It'll even do 4K for some older games like TF2.

How important is a quiet PC? Do you plan to do any recording? Maybe some overclocking? If the answer to any of these is yes, then aftermarket cooling might be in order. It might also mean we may need some extra RAM, or better RAM.

Budget wise, going for a round 1000 bucks (american) as far as quiet, not overly necessary.

As for future proofing i just mean i should still be able to play new games at least at medium settings (note i usually play RTS's and RPGs, Lichdom is the most graphically taxing game ive ever wanted to play)

[Max™]

I will second the logicalincrements site, and add that this is like the best companion for it eve: http://pcpartpicker.com/. I love it due to the little button labeled "compatibility filter" that will actually show you whether or not things will work, if they will work with driver updates, if they might work with bugs, and so forth.

Follow the filter guidelines and you can rest assured that barring getting broken or defective parts, it will work.

Not sure what your OS situation is, not sure your preferences on the brands and such, but if I was shooting to spend about 1k and play the game you listed at max, this looks good to me atm: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/TdqbZL

Naturally you should go play around with the different parts and such, even if you like how the build looks feel free to go click on the different pieces and see what else is available with that setup, mix and match, so forth. Awesome site.

[Balmas]

Here, consider this. It's a pretty solid sub-$1K build, with a good CPU, a really good GPU, and a decent balance of parts. If it were my build, I might switch out for a different Gigabyte mobo and an ASUS graphics card, as that helps match the red-and-black theme of the Storm Scout case. This build oughtta let you play pretty much any modern game while maintaining excellent graphics and framerate. Plus, it'll look pretty awesome.

[Max™]

The one Balmas just posted looks even better than the one I did, I wasn't able to find a way to work in the 970+an i5-4xxxk chip and wasn't sure how big on overclocking you'd be anyways.

[Blackhawk748]

Here, consider this. It's a pretty solid sub-$1K build, with a good CPU, a really good GPU, and a decent balance of parts. If it were my build, I might switch out for a different Gigabyte mobo and an ASUS graphics card, as that helps match the red-and-black theme of the Storm Scout case. This build oughtta let you play pretty much any modern game while maintaining excellent graphics and framerate. Plus, it'll look pretty awesome.

Wow that is awesome. I think im gonna use this as my base and play around with a few things, probably shop around for parts.

[Balmas]

Wow that is awesome. I think im gonna use this as my base and play around with a few things, probably shop around for parts.

Here's my own take on that same theme. It's basically a bigger brother to the previous build, with twice the amount of RAM, twice the storage capacity, and a motherboard that supports SLI, since the previous listed one does not. It's also color coordinated to match the case, which is something I always try to strive for. (If you feel like tossing some extra fancy stuff in there, consider some black/red BitFenix Spectre fans to replace the ones that accompany the CPU cooler.)

However, it's slightly more expensive. Even when you factor in the cheaper CPU cooler, the premiums for the ASUS GPU and the larger memory sizes push it to something like $1150. It's up to you whether you think it's worth it, but personally, I'd go for it. It'll be cheaper than upgrading later on.

Even if you don't go for this build exactly, definitely go for a motherboard that supports SLI. SLI means you can buy a second 970 in a few years, and stretch that super-good graphics level a few years more.

[Flickerdart]

It's up to you whether you think it's worth it, but personally, I'd go for it. It'll be cheaper than upgrading later on.

Wouldn't upgrading later be cheaper, since the components you mention (GPU and RAM) would surely decrease in price for that performance point?

[Balmas]

Wouldn't upgrading later be cheaper, since the components you mention (GPU and RAM) would surely decrease in price for that performance point?

GPU will almost certainly be cheaper in two or three years. I'm not so sure about RAM. However, I could have been clearer; I meant that it's probably cheaper to buy them now, as I'm unsure that buying two 8GB sticks of RAM in a set won't be cheaper than buying two one-stick sets of 8 GB each. The two main increases in price for this build are RAM and HDD. You get more storage per dollar with a 2TB HDD than with a 1TB HDD. (Then again, buying a 3TB Western Digital Red is less than twice the price of the 1TB; three times the storage for less than twice the price is a good deal, I think. I might have to spring for that.)

[wumpus]

Future-proof for 5 years just ain't going to happen at the speed development happens in the PC realm, unless you spend lots and lots of money on the absolute top-end kit you can get right now. It would actually be cheaper to buy a mid-range PC now and then buy another mid-range one in 2.5 years time than it would be to buy one powerful enough to last for 5!

Have you looked at actual improvements lately? Here's my take:

CPU: If you want "future proof", wait for Skylake. While Intel's roadmap seems to go out to 7nm, expect plenty of delays and little improvement (Moore's law is mostly dead, but Intel keeps pushing it). The thing is that Skylake is a CPU designed for 14nm which should stay state of the art for awhile. Warning: this may stick you with DDR4 (which may be an advantage if you need to buy ram in the next 5 years).

RAM: see above. DDR3 is pretty cheap, and I've seen deals on 16G here and there.

Motherboard: Ideally you would have USB type C. That should be "good enough" for 5 years. You might also want a M.2 drive in case you need a new (possibly replaced a failed) SSD.

RAM: I expect it to be easier to add DDR4 in three+ years. I can't really expect anything to need more than 16G of RAM in that time. Remember: mobile is driving more and more things, so don't expect huge power needs. Note that buying DDR2 right now isn't that hard, so don't worry about buying DDR3.

Drives: Looks like a mix of SSD and rust for 1T (1T of SSD is ~40% of your budget). In the event of "future-proof-failure" just add a drive. Having a M.2 port is the real "future proofing". Don't forget an extra >=1T drive for backup (a 2-3TB external should hold multiple increamental backups).

Monitor[s]: "Portable" is the kicker. I don't think you can buy "portable" high-res displays that aren't already computers themselves (I can't say I've looked hard). Three smallish 1080 monitors might be the most portable option (maybe even a carry-on option). VR is the only thing that the future could really threaten this with.

GPU: Progress in GPUs might be slow, but it is pretty steady (even if it takes a few designs on the same node). Lichdom Battlemage at least gives us something to shoot for: taken from here: http://www.gamingbench.com/benchmark...e-performance/

2550x1440 (not exactly portable): will need at least two state of the art CPUs ganged together. Expect >50% of the budget here. Between the monitor and everything else it doesn't look possible.
1920x1080: Looks like GTX 970 and R9 290X easily get 60fps (and run between $300-$400). 280X and 770 if you are less picky about 60fps.
1920X1080X3: google seems to imply it can be done with just two state of the art chips ganged together (see 2550x1440). Other googling implies that this doesn't give you AA (part because of bugs making it not available, but I suspect that AA would just drag it down if it worked). Don't expect it.

Wouldn't upgrading later be cheaper, since the components you mention (GPU and RAM) would surely decrease in price for that performance point?

DDR3 isn't going down. DDR4 might, but you will pay a higher premium now for it than you will save later (and you aren't sure you will even need to save later). Connecting AMD's HDR to a CPU might be a game-changer (but likely only for servers, and ARM/cat/atom based ones at that. I wouldn't hold my breath).
GPUs are essentially big arrays of floating point multiply-adds. You drop down the transitors and they shade the pixels (complicated yes, but essentially limited by physics). I don't see nVidia and AMD being able to buy significantly cheaper transistors. The only real issue would be VR needing features current GPUs don't have (read "Gsync for line-by-line" transfer to make chasing the beam trivial).

And of course, always make sure you have a slot or two open for another drive. Future-proof seems possible, after decades of laughing at the idea (just watch carbon nanotube based computers shipping 4 years and 11 months after building this box).

[Flickerdart]

Drives: Looks like a mix of SSD and rust for 1T (1T of SSD is ~40% of your budget). In the event of "future-proof-failure" just add a drive. Having a M.2 port is the real "future proofing". Don't forget an extra >=1T drive for backup (a 2-3TB external should hold multiple increamental backups).

Apparently Intel has this thing now where you use an entire SSD drive as a cache for an HDD, which lets you enjoy the access speed of an SSD for all your files (mostly) while not being limited in drive size.

[Brother Oni]

any game company with an ounce of common sense is not going to have requirements so severe that a solid computer from 5 years ago isn't going to be able to play it.

*Cough*Crysis*Cough*.

[factotum]

*Cough*Crysis*Cough*.

Better, more recent example: the Witcher 3. The absolute minimum CPU requirement for that game is a Core i5-2500K at 3.3GHz, which was only introduced in 2011, and the GPU requirement is a GeForce GTX 660, which is a high-end card from Autumn 2012. These are minimums, note, not recommended.

As for GTA5 requirements, that game was originally released on the XBox 360--OK, the PC version is based on the XBone/PS4 version, which has some extra features, but that doesn't change the fact that the original base game ran on a 10-year-old console, so it's hardly surprising it doesn't have especially high system requirements.

[Knaight]

*Cough*Crysis*Cough*.

Crysis didn't do that. You couldn't play on maximum settings with everything, but with low settings just about any computer 5 years after release could handle it with no issues. It was designed to scale into the future, and while it was a bit iffy even with lower settings for the computers on release that didn't last.

[FallenFallcrest]

My suggestion, wait until the Moore's Laws runs out for transistors, pixel density, ect. Then wait for the fabricator to be invented so that you can build it for free. But seriously, it is really hard to build a "future-proof" system. You can make one that lasts ages depending on what you want it to do, but if you exist on a high end need world, like gaming, then the need wI'll just increase until your computer cannot handle it as well as it used to.