Goblins XV: Klik Here

[halfeye]

I struggle at times to determine which is greater - the project creator's malfeasance, or Thunt's naivete.

I'm wondering about that. How is the guy still running a website "selling" stuff if the police are after him?

Are the police after him?

How haven't they caught him if they are?

[Dodom]

Has there been any activity on the guy's site or is the site keeping on collecting donations as it was previously set up? I mean if the site is just keeping running on its own, he could as well be dead.

[halfeye]

Has there been any activity on the guy's site or is the site keeping on collecting donations as it was previously set up? I mean if the site is just keeping running on its own, he could as well be dead.

Yeah, but presumably there's a computer somewhere, why hasn't that been found? Maybe it's rented? so why hasn't the rental company been informed and turned it off? If the cops are after this guy, and with presumably lots of unsatisfied customers, they would have to be, why haven't they found at least who he's renting computer time from yet? It all strikes me as a bit weird.

[Bird]

Yeah, but presumably there's a computer somewhere, why hasn't that been found? Maybe it's rented? so why hasn't the rental company been informed and turned it off? If the cops are after this guy, and with presumably lots of unsatisfied customers, they would have to be, why haven't they found at least who he's renting computer time from yet? It all strikes me as a bit weird.

Without evidence of such, I would not assume that police are after the guy. (And I'm not even sure which police they'd be--the incident and customers and suspect are all in different places, including the internet.) Broadly speaking, lots of stuff goes down that never gets investigated.

[Typewriter]

Without evidence of such, I would not assume that police are after the guy. (And I'm not even sure which police they'd be--the incident and customers and suspect are all in different places, including the internet.) Broadly speaking, lots of stuff goes down that never gets investigated.

Honestly we have no reason to think that any sort of legal action is being pursued against the guy at this point. Thunt is not in 'the know' and as far as I've seen the backers haven't attempted any legal action for not receiving their rewards up to this point. If they did and/or somehow got Kickstarter involved all the guy would have to do is post a message saying, "Still working on the game guys, everything is A-OK", and that would be the end of it for a while.

The fact that the kickstarter page was finally taken down is interesting, hopefully it means Thunt involved a lawyer over a copyright dispute, or perhaps they got concerned at the potential for one, but my (admittedly limited) knowledge makes me think nothing will come of it - Thunt publically (and presumably legally) gave the guy the authority to use his IP. Maybe if they had some sort of contract in place it could have expired or he could claim that the project wasn't completed in a reasonable time expires the use of it, but again I'm pretty ignorant on legal specifics, so who even knows :/

[Lissou]

I'm wondering about that. How is the guy still running a website "selling" stuff if the police are after him?

Are the police after him?

How haven't they caught him if they are?

It doesn't really matter that the police is after him once the website is setup. I once bought a product from a website that turned out to be an hoax that hadn't been maintained in years. Websites don't necessarily just pop out of existence, especially if their original owner has disappeared and can't take it down themself. You can always send cease and desist letters but they're unlikely to accomplish anything if nobody is there to receive them. In the end, you can get to the hosting company but you may have to go to Court before they do anything at all.

The fact that people are spending money on something they'll never get doesn't necessarily mean the guy is getting it, either. He could be dead or in a coma or something. His presence or activity aren't needed at this point.

[halfeye]

It doesn't really matter that the police is after him once the website is setup.

I was sort of thinking maybe the police would find the IP address, and maybe from that the hosters of the website.

I once bought a product from a website that turned out to be an hoax that hadn't been maintained in years.

I'm sorry to hear that.

Websites don't necessarily just pop out of existence, especially if their original owner has disappeared and can't take it down themself. You can always send cease and desist letters but they're unlikely to accomplish anything if nobody is there to receive them. In the end, you can get to the hosting company but you may have to go to Court before they do anything at all.

I was kind of thinking that maybe if the police turned up at the hosting company and said something like "Excuse me, but we're looking for this guy, and he seems to be hosted here, do you by any chance know what he looks like or where he lives?" something useful might come of that, and it seems odd to me as an outsider that nothing like that has happened. Kickstarter is one thing, but he's apparently been selling directly, and in my country there are time limits on non-delivery of goods, after which you can call in trading standards, and eventually the police.

The fact that people are spending money on something they'll never get doesn't necessarily mean the guy is getting it, either. He could be dead or in a coma or something. His presence or activity aren't needed at this point.

Yeah, that's clear.

[Lissou]

Honestly I have no clue if the police is looking for him at all. I've heard of lots of cases where the police pretty much went "well it's an online thing, so it's not my jurisdiction" and it can be very fuzzy whose jurisdiction it is if anyone's. It has a better chance being brought to Court with lawyers involved than being prosecuted. The police isn't going to go chase a guy who may not even have intentionally deceived anyone, just been unable to deliver.

I once had a guy pay me with a fake check (yes, I've had a few things happen to me :P) and I noticed when the check was more than he was supposed to pay me and he wanted me to give him the difference (with a stupid excuse about how the client paid me directly and his fee was part of the check). So I didn't cash it and I did some research to locate the guy, and I had some information about him that I thought could be useful. In the end I was told that nothing could be done, really, and to just not cash the check and try to move on.

It wasn't a huge deal. Disappointing but since I never deposited it, I didn't get hit with any fees. I just wasn't paid, and I didn't deliver the work either since the guy paid me in advance. I suspect he couldn't have cared less about the work itself. But it showed me how the answer often is "well, nothing we can do, even if you have proof and some useful information".

So my guess is that Thunt is in a similar (but much worse) situation, where there isn't really much he can do. Plus he probably tried the civil approach of contacting him, then to go through Kickstarter to resolve it peacefully, etc. I doubt his first reaction was to go to the police. They might still not be involved in any of it (or did he say they are now?)

[Vinyadan]

I think Thunt is completely right in trying to take action against this guy. The Kickstarter did show his name and work, those who backed it were his fans, and I think he personally advertised it. This means that there was a huge potential for damage against Thunt's image.

The guy lives beyond the border, which makes things more difficult.

At the same time, Kickstarter did not help him, because he wasn't the creator of the campaign and he probably didn't use a legal back then. Kickstarter used a lot of excuses.

The guy now has lost the permission to use Thunt's intellectual property. The contract said that he would lose it, if he had not produced the game in a certain date, which has expired. That's why there currently is a IP fight about the project, and why the Kickstarter was taken down.

Thunt also took legal action against the guy, or is strongly willing to do so (I mean, I never read a word from him saying "I have taken legal action", but it seems strongly implied in a couple of things he wrote).

However, the police cannot take down just any website. There are international laws about this, and the USA probably have an advantage due to their role in the birth and maintaining the Internet, but, if the website is hosted by a company whose servers are situated on (e.g.) a Caribbean island, then it's likely out of their reach and jurisdiction. There are exceptions for very heavy offences, I think (terrorism and human trafficking in its various forms), but I don't really think this case belongs to this class.

While I wouldn't be so open about the situation as Thunt is, I do understand that he is trying to show his personal situation and to explain his own role to his fans. I also hope the money gets back. The project was actually kickstarted before there was a modification in the contract saying that proposers of the project are obliged to deliver if they get the money, so I don't think it will be so easy.

[Neoriceisgood]

I'm kinda shocked at all the stuff Thunt always gets into & has going on.

[The Succubus]

I feel really sorry for the guy. No one should have to go through all this stuff, including having their personal details sent to thousands of angry people.

[AtomicKitKat]

I hate you.

Your hate two me is only natural. It is the result of realising your twotune to run into someone who enjoys wordplay enough to twogo all sense of humility to mess with the twobidden art.

[Typewriter]

I think Thunt is completely right in trying to take action against this guy. The Kickstarter did show his name and work, those who backed it were his fans, and I think he personally advertised it. This means that there was a huge potential for damage against Thunt's image.

The guy lives beyond the border, which makes things more difficult.

At the same time, Kickstarter did not help him, because he wasn't the creator of the campaign and he probably didn't use a legal back then. Kickstarter used a lot of excuses.

To my knowledge Kickstarter has used one excuse - you aren't the project creator and therefore we you have no authority regarding the project and we can not communicate with you.

The guy now has lost the permission to use Thunt's intellectual property. The contract said that he would lose it, if he had not produced the game in a certain date, which has expired. That's why there currently is a IP fight about the project, and why the Kickstarter was taken down.

Did he? I don't remember ever reading about any sort of timeframe on the project - I mean, there could be and this could be happening, but as far as I know this is just conjecture, and considering Thunts vocal behavior up to this point I imagine we would have heard something about it if this was the case.

Thunt also took legal action against the guy, or is strongly willing to do so (I mean, I never read a word from him saying "I have taken legal action", but it seems strongly implied in a couple of things he wrote).

As of now Thunt has filed a DMCA takedown request with Kickstarter. I have seen nothing to make me think that he has done anything more up to this point besides complain to anyone who will listen. My reasons for thinking this are twofold - first, if any sort of legal proceedings were going on Thunt would be talking about them - he can't keep his mouth shut regarding the subject, he seems deadset on posting every single bit of activity that occurs. Secondly, and it sort of ties into the first - I imagine that any lawyer worth a cent would tell Thunt to stop talking about what is going on in a public setting.

As far as the DMCA thing goes I imagine it's going to blow up in his face. He filed a takedown request for something he authorized - I'm pretty sure he can't just revoke it. That page was created legally and it continues to be legal for it to exist until Thunt takes someone to court. IP law generally doesn't work on the foundation that you can just change your mind about something.

However, the police cannot take down just any website. There are international laws about this, and the USA probably have an advantage due to their role in the birth and maintaining the Internet, but, if the website is hosted by a company whose servers are situated on (e.g.) a Caribbean island, then it's likely out of their reach and jurisdiction. There are exceptions for very heavy offences, I think (terrorism and human trafficking in its various forms), but I don't really think this case belongs to this class.

People keep talking about the police - again, I feel lost - has anyone actually contacted the police? As near as I can tell the guy hasn't actually done anything illegal - he's obviously not completing the project, and that's something he can/should be taken to court for, but failure to complete a contract is not something the police get involved in most of the time. At best Thunt could probably get the guys site(s) taken down and sue for control of the project based off of the fact that the guy is misusing the authority to use the IP that he was granted in a way that harms Goblins.

While I wouldn't be so open about the situation as Thunt is, I do understand that he is trying to show his personal situation and to explain his own role to his fans. I also hope the money gets back. The project was actually kickstarted before there was a modification in the contract saying that proposers of the project are obliged to deliver if they get the money, so I don't think it will be so easy.

I definitely understand where Thunt is coming from in regards to being open with his fans, but every time he posts something I just cringe. His most recent e-mail to Kickstarter, for example - he's trying to talk down to them and/or intimidate them for not doing what he wanted, when the fact of the matter is that they did nothing wrong. He then goes on to say that the project is no longer happening, that nobody will receive anything... but he has no authority to be the one to state that because he is not officially involved in the project. He keeps explaining to them the situation, and the fact of the matter is that he's right in a very specific way. But he's not right in his dealings with Kickstarter because he is so focused on the fact that he's right that he repeatedly ignores his own lack of authority in the situation.

I like Thunt, I very nearly backed this project (I actually pledged 99 dollars, then backed out at the last second because, at the time, I thought Thunt was leading the project and I didn't trust him to fulfill), but I really wish he would try to understand the actual situation that's happening instead of getting so hung up on the way he thinks things should go.

[Daywalker1983]

*snip*

I wholeheartedly agree.

On top of all that I wonder if his willingness to once more drag those things into the public is gonna come back to bite him in the posterior.

I don't think Kickstarter or anyone else will take too kindly to having the minutiae of this case trodden out to the internet.

Is there any objective source that confirms Evertide going belly up? I'm not saying THunt is lying, not at all, but we have no evidence. All THunt has done is forcing Kickstarter to take down his artwork, which technically is not connected to the Kickstarter. Shouldn't there be angy rants about how Evertide has talen money for mewrchandise and has not delivered?

And did THunt really think Kickstarter wasn't able to mail the backers, in the way that there wasn't a "mail all backers" button? It was pretty clear to me that they just said they wouldn't do it.

[halfeye]

To my knowledge Kickstarter has used one excuse - you aren't the project creator and therefore we you have no authority regarding the project and we can not communicate with you.

That covers the kickstarter situation. Probably.

People keep talking about the police - again, I feel lost - has anyone actually contacted the police? As near as I can tell the guy hasn't actually done anything illegal - he's obviously not completing the project, and that's something he can/should be taken to court for, but failure to complete a contract is not something the police get involved in most of the time. At best Thunt could probably get the guys site(s) taken down and sue for control of the project based off of the fact that the guy is misusing the authority to use the IP that he was granted in a way that harms Goblins.

The guy allegedly has a website that is taking money, has been for years, and has so far not delivered any products. Any and all of the people who have paid money to that site and not received the product they ordered within a set amount of time (in the UK it would be 28 days, in the USA that may well vary, but I'm pretty sure there will have been a time limit) can complain to the police. If the police get a complaint worth $10, they probably won't bother that much, if they get a thousand $10 complaints, that's a pretty big amount of money, and they ought to start taking notice.

However, that doesn't seem to be happening, which is odd in my opinion.

[Lethologica]

That covers the kickstarter situation. Probably.


The guy allegedly has a website that is taking money, has been for years, and has so far not delivered any products. Any and all of the people who have paid money to that site and not received the product they ordered within a set amount of time (in the UK it would be 28 days, in the USA that may well vary, but I'm pretty sure there will have been a time limit) can complain to the police. If the police get a complaint worth $10, they probably won't bother that much, if they get a thousand $10 complaints, that's a pretty big amount of money, and they ought to start taking notice.

However, that doesn't seem to be happening, which is odd in my opinion.

At a guess, only a fraction of the victims bothered reporting, and a significant number that did reported to the wrong jurisdiction--for that matter, what is the correct agency to handle this? And then some fraction of those people got brushed off for not having large enough individual complaints.

[Typewriter]

I wholeheartedly agree.

On top of all that I wonder if his willingness to once more drag those things into the public is gonna come back to bite him in the posterior.

I don't think Kickstarter or anyone else will take too kindly to having the minutiae of this case trodden out to the internet.

Is there any objective source that confirms Evertide going belly up? I'm not saying THunt is lying, not at all, but we have no evidence. All THunt has done is forcing Kickstarter to take down his artwork, which technically is not connected to the Kickstarter. Shouldn't there be angy rants about how Evertide has talen money for mewrchandise and has not delivered?

And did THunt really think Kickstarter wasn't able to mail the backers, in the way that there wasn't a "mail all backers" button? It was pretty clear to me that they just said they wouldn't do it.

I hope it doesn't but it seems like it very easily could. All the guy would have to say at this point is that Thunt was harassing him and turned his followers on him. There is zero evidence that the guy did anything 'wrong' other than failing to complete the project 'yet'. He could say that he received excessive e-mails from Thunt and took his time responding, but by the time he was ready to explain the 'delays' he started receiving threats and harassment from Thunts fans so he instead laid low.

That covers the kickstarter situation. Probably.


The guy allegedly has a website that is taking money, has been for years, and has so far not delivered any products. Any and all of the people who have paid money to that site and not received the product they ordered within a set amount of time (in the UK it would be 28 days, in the USA that may well vary, but I'm pretty sure there will have been a time limit) can complain to the police. If the police get a complaint worth $10, they probably won't bother that much, if they get a thousand $10 complaints, that's a pretty big amount of money, and they ought to start taking notice.

However, that doesn't seem to be happening, which is odd in my opinion.

Is that the case even when it comes to pre-purchases - I mean, people spent money on a project that will eventually result in a finished project - I imagine that people should be eligible for a refund if they request it, but I also imagine the pre-order nature of the situation to to complicate things when it comes to complaints. Plus, as you said, I'm not sure how many people are even caring to complain.

At a guess, only a fraction of the victims bothered reporting, and a significant number that did reported to the wrong jurisdiction--for that matter, what is the correct agency to handle this? And then some fraction of those people got brushed off for not having large enough individual complaints.

I'd be willing to guess that anyone who has problems/complaints with the project that went through Kickstarter is trying to go through Kickstarter to get the situation resolved. Or they just don't know there is a situation. As far as the website - for all we know the number of people ordering it through there was very small. Of those, a few could have done chargebacks when they realized they were being scammed, some could have complained and/or requested a refund then lost interest. I really doubt many people (anyone at all, really) are going to the police because a board game they pre-ordered didn't get delivered and they have failed to get a refund.

[BannedInSchool]

IANAL (but I have been watching Better Call Saul), but it seems to me that getting a civil lawsuit brought against whatshisface would be easier than getting whatever jurisdiction it might fall into interested in a criminal case.

Now the more frustrating annoying thing out of this is that I can imagine in general this will become "Hey, remember when Thunt stole all that money with Kickstarter?".

[Vinyadan]

@ Typewriter: This is a comment he posted two weeks ago to the video linked above: "It is a crime, yes. I am going to crush him legally. Unfortunately, I suspect the money is probably gone. Still... it's on. The maddening thing, is that all he had to do, was talk to me. Grrrr.

As far as copyrights are concerned, our contract does state that if the game isn't made by a certain date, ALL of the art, etc becomes mine. That date has passed, so at least he can't sue me."

I don't know how police works in North America, but, where I live, if money disappears, you can report to them and they will investigate the thing, even if it's not yours.

The Evertide website has no weblinks to G:AR anymore, even though the page can still be accessed through direct link.

As I said, I understand the situation in which Thunt is, but I wouldn't be so loud, if I were him - I would actually hold my mouth shut (and I would say different things, if I had to). What I meant with excuses was, e.g., the "we cannot email all the backers", which could be interpreted as a technical issue (while it probably was to be read as "we cannot email all the backers on your demand"). Sending Thunt's home address (if he didn't mean his homepage) was quite a blunder. The title to the last blog post, however, was so over the top, I can't think of something worse.

I also am not accusing Kickstarter for not helping before, because they must act as a business firm, and you can't just take everyone's word as true.

[Lissou]

I was very confused by the "home address" thing so I went through the email and tried to find said home address. I did eventually find a street address. I would never have realised it was his home address had he not said it. I would never have even clicked that link (although I'm sure some people did). It strikes me as incredibly unwise for him to make this post, not just because he'd being Godwinny in it, but because he's drawing attention to something most people probably would never have noticed. Why he didn't ask them in private to take down the address or something, I'm not sure. Even just shutting up about it would have yielded better results. Kickstarter effed up by providing the link in question, but it could have gone completely unnoticed. Thunt definitely made it worse here.

I understand Tarol's frustration about the whole thing, but I'm forced to admit Kickstarter has been acting exactly as I would have expected them to.

I'm sure Tarol is keeping secrets the details of the legal thing. It's not like he's never kept secret or is unable to keep them. Just because he shares a lot otherwise doesn't mean he shares everything. Since he started legal proceedings, there might be a lawyer involved. If so, whatever is happening right now is not something we're going to be aware of, except for thing that are already going to reach people like the Kickstarter email thing.

I hope things turn out for the best with this whole issue. The game seemed awesome and I hope it gets released eventually. I do wish Tarol didn't take all the responsibility on his shoulders because that's a lot to carry and it must be frustrating and overwhelming, but since he's already made the decision to take control over the project, I hope he'll be successful with it.

[Typewriter]

@ Typewriter: This is a comment he posted two weeks ago to the video linked above: "It is a crime, yes. I am going to crush him legally. Unfortunately, I suspect the money is probably gone. Still... it's on. The maddening thing, is that all he had to do, was talk to me. Grrrr.

As far as copyrights are concerned, our contract does state that if the game isn't made by a certain date, ALL of the art, etc becomes mine. That date has passed, so at least he can't sue me."

I don't know how police works in North America, but, where I live, if money disappears, you can report to them and they will investigate the thing, even if it's not yours.

The Evertide website has no weblinks to G:AR anymore, even though the page can still be accessed through direct link.

As I said, I understand the situation in which Thunt is, but I wouldn't be so loud, if I were him - I would actually hold my mouth shut (and I would say different things, if I had to). What I meant with excuses was, e.g., the "we cannot email all the backers", which could be interpreted as a technical issue (while it probably was to be read as "we cannot email all the backers on your demand"). Sending Thunt's home address (if he didn't mean his homepage) was quite a blunder. The title to the last blog post, however, was so over the top, I can't think of something worse.

I also am not accusing Kickstarter for not helping before, because they must act as a business firm, and you can't just take everyone's word as true.

Ah, I did miss that post of his. I hope this works out for him, but I just can't understand what he would be doing sending out his own notices and e-mails to Kickstarter and the like if he is undergoing legal action... it really seems like something his lawyer should be doing, not him. I am happy, at least, to know the contract he worked on the guy with had a provision in there returning the IP to him - I'm honestly curious as to how the legality of it will turn out. He gave away the rights to his IP for a project that people could pay in advance for, which people did, and now the thing they purchased no longer belongs to the seller to deliver. It's... interesting, to say the least.

As for the police in the U.S. - well I'm no expert but I don't think a blind claim is enough to warrant police action, especially when it's a civil, not criminal, matter. If someone stole my money then it's a criminal offense and I would notify the police. If I purchased something and the company failed to deliver it would either be something I handled through my bank or in civil court - failing to deliver on a deal (purchase/contract) is civil, not criminal so police involvement would never come up in the first place.

[halfeye]

As for the police in the U.S. - well I'm no expert but I don't think a blind claim is enough to warrant police action, especially when it's a civil, not criminal, matter. If someone stole my money then it's a criminal offense and I would notify the police. If I purchased something and the company failed to deliver it would either be something I handled through my bank or in civil court - failing to deliver on a deal (purchase/contract) is civil, not criminal so police involvement would never come up in the first place.

Well I certainly don't claim to understand US law.

Does deliberate fraud not cross the line from civil to criminal in the USA?

[Starbuck_II]

Back to the comic, we found out who was talking: another Klik.
I like the way this story is going. Starting to be funny again.

[Typewriter]

Well I certainly don't claim to understand US law.

Does deliberate fraud not cross the line from civil to criminal in the USA?

Fraud can be criminal, but requires evidence and as of right now the guy hasn't delivered, but there is absolutely zero evidence of criminal wrongdoing, aka fraud. Me going to the police and saying somebody committed fraud probably wouldn't go anywhere.

Back to the comic, we found out who was talking: another Klik.
I like the way this story is going. Starting to be funny again.

I like the fact that it's moving (I can't help but wonder if the Patreon funding isn't a good motivator for him) but I'm sort of annoyed with the current focus of the comic. After years we finally get to the GAP, then Thunt talks about the following three pages blowing minds and then... six month hiatus. Was the mind blowing part the fact that Kore looks creepy? Or is it where we are now with the klikked up Forgath. And now we're focusing on new characters instead of the probably more interesting MM + GAP.

What's going on is interesting/funny/fun but I just don't care. Whatever purpose these new characters are going to serve could likely have been accomplished in a quicker simpler way. At with the pace over the last year I think that would have been a good thing.

But again - it is entertaining to read, even if I wish his focus was elsewhere.

[runeghost]

Does anyone else think that the original plan was to kill Forgath in the fight with Kore, and what we're seeing now is Thunt's way of writing himself out of that corner?

[Lissou]

Does anyone else think that the original plan was to kill Forgath in the fight with Kore, and what we're seeing now is Thunt's way of writing himself out of that corner?

I don't think so. Thunt is really good about following long-term plans and having details come up much later. My guess would be that he planned things this way all along, either because the prophecy referred to another moment, or for another reason yet to be explained in the story.

[Neoriceisgood]

I don't think so. Thunt is really good about following long-term plans and having details come up much later. My guess would be that he planned things this way all along, either because the prophecy referred to another moment, or for another reason yet to be explained in the story.

W-woah, new Lissou avatar..?!

[Traab]

Heh, amusing comic. Honestly, I kinda sympathize with Typewriter. Though for me the problem is, this is turning into war and peace with the sheer number of characters. (Ok im exaggerating, sue me) Every time we adjust to the current character list, the party gets split up again, and meets new characters again. The GAP are the only ones who have managed to stay together, aside from dies horribly. And when you have like, 3 different story lines, with an update schedule thats closer to monthly than anything else, it takes way too long for progress to be made, and there are long stretches where your personal favorite crew arent in the updates. Like the long gap between The GAP meeting Kore, and Minmax and Forgath getting through the maze of many. Each was an awesome story true, but it left the cliff hangar hanging for WAAAAAY too long.

[Lissou]

W-woah, new Lissou avatar..?!

Haha, sorry for confusing you :P Yes, I guess it had been years since I changed it, hadn't it?

[Daywalker1983]

I don't think so. Thunt is really good about following long-term plans and having details come up much later. My guess would be that he planned things this way all along, either because the prophecy referred to another moment, or for another reason yet to be explained in the story.

One of those Details just came back to bite him, though. Ward called himself a Klik, which makes no sense. Klik was calld that because he went Klik, and he was given the name by Dies. Why would he call himself a Klik, when it's just the way his language sounds to us? And even if he would there is no way Ward could know this. It would also be awfully convenient if they in Fact happened to call themselves Klik, and that translates to our language as Klik, too. He confuses Auhtor knowledge and character knowledge.

In other news, he doesn't have a lawyer yet. I'm not saying he deserves all of this, but some days it seems he keeps on asking for more.