Would you find a chart like this cumbersome?

[Grr]

As the title asks, would you find combat resolution like this cumbersome?

Step 1: Attacker rolls d20, adds modifiers.
Step 2: Defender rolls d20, subtracts it from attackers roll.
Step 3: Compare result to a Defense Chart

The defense chart is similar to the way the to hit rolls work in World of Warcraft. You start at 0 and work your way up. I'm just not capping it at 100 and using percentages. So in this example, the attacker has a total bonus of +15 to their roll. The defender has a defense of 10, dodge of 4, parry of 4. Attack rolls a 15, for a total of 30. Defender rolls a 10, which makes the attack a normal hit.

Miss = 0 to 10
Dodge = 11 to 14
Parry = 15 to 18
Hit = 19 to 28
Crushing Hit = 29 to 34
Critical Hit = 35+

Obviously, buffs and other modifiers would come into play, but a lot of them could be figured out beforehand. Commonly used buffs could have their own chart on scrap paper, to speed things up.

[Icewalker]

Huh. Interesting. I actually really like this, and don't find it particularly confusing, although each character would have to have their own chart, as they'd have different dodge and parry and such. I think this'd work excellently for someone going for realism with custom characters sheets.

Miss: should be constant I think, but I dunno bout 1 through 10, low level characters would never hit. Could scale with level...
Dodge: Replaces old AC bonus from dex / dodge feat and such.
Parry: special feats and the other stuff that gives parry bonuses, I guess
Hit: the next 10 numbers
Crushing hit (x1.5 dmg?) next 5 numbers
Critical hit, as weapon: anything higher.

[Kultrum]

i could stand using it, but would prolly default to the old system for simplicity's sake also it reminds me of the dodge roll system

[Grr]

Huh. Interesting. I actually really like this, and don't find it particularly confusing, although each character would have to have their own chart, as they'd have different dodge and parry and such. I think this'd work excellently for someone going for realism with custom characters sheets.

Miss: should be constant I think, but I dunno bout 1 through 10, low level characters would never hit. Could scale with level...
Dodge: Replaces old AC bonus from dex / dodge feat and such.
Parry: special feats and the other stuff that gives parry bonuses, I guess
Hit: the next 10 numbers
Crushing hit (x1.5 dmg?) next 5 numbers
Critical hit, as weapon: anything higher.

I'm using it for an rpg I'm making for irc games. Eventually going to script a bot to handle combat with little interaction from the GM. The "Miss" section of the chart varies, based upon the characters Defense skill.

A starting character would have at max, Agility 4, Defense 2, Parry 2, Dodge 2, Block 2, for a total of 12, but they would be required to have a weapon in one hand and a shield in the other. Otherwise they wouldn't get the benefit of Parry and Block. Heavier armors reduce damage taken, but also reduce your defense value. An attacker using a melee weapon could have a Strength 4, Attack 2, Weapon 2 for a total of 8.

The system favors defense over massive hit points, using a wound level system similar to World of Darkness and Shadowrun. A single, well placed attack can devastate anyone. The problem I'm seeing now, is that there's no room for the lucky hit from the novice. I don't have any rules written for natural 1's or 20's yet, so that's probably where I can add them.

[Kyace]

Since this appears to generate a number by 1d20 + x - 1d20, if x < 19 then negative numbers are possible. Does the attacker shoot himself in the foot then on negative results?

[Grr]

No, anything less then zero is treated as a zero.

[Kyace]

As it stands, you have a range of nearly fourty possible results for a given set of modifiers. Since there are two dice rolled, the middle results should happen much more often than the extremes. (IE, for 1d20 + x - 1d20, there are 20 possible sets of two rolls that result in a final number of x, but only 1 possible set of two rolls for a result of either x - 19 or x + 19.) Instead of normal d20's 5% odds for max and min rolls; with two d20 dice you end up with .25% chance of rolling max and min. You get .5% chance to roll x - 18 or x + 18 and .75% chance to roll x - 17 or x + 17, up to 5.0% chance to roll x.

If you want lucky strikes and lucky misses to happen more often, you could replace the 1d20 + x - 1d20 system with a 1d39 + x - 20 (To a bot, d39 dice are just as likely as d20). You'd end up with the same range, but each possible result from x - 19 to x + 19 has exactly the same odds of happening.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I voted yes since it's a lot more cumbersome than the current system. However it could be made to work.

[InaVegt]

How about

Attack roll = normal
defense roll = d20 + circumstance modifiers

{table]less than -5|miss
-5 till dex modifier|dodge
dex modifier +1 till armor bonus + dex modifier|scrapes armor
armor bonus + dex modifier +1 till armor bonus dex modifier + parry bonus[br](including two weapon defense)|parried
armor bonus + dex modifier + parry bonus +1 till AB + DM + PB + 15 - crit mod of weapon|normal hit
AB + DM + PB +16 - crit mod and up|critical[/table]

So a 14 dex rogue with leather armor and no shield has

{table]less than -5|miss
-5 till +2|dodge
+3 till +4| scrapes armor
+5 till +4 (not happening)|parried
+5 till 20 - crit mod|normal hit
21 and up|critical[/table]

[Telonius]

Yes. I played using something like this about 8 years ago online, back before AOL's roleplaying chatrooms had completed their descent into lesbian vampire furry-dom. It used d100s instead of d20s, but it was a similar concept. Battles took forever, modifiers were obnoxious to figure out, and it was just generally a pain in the butt.

[Grr]

Uh, you guys keep trying to put this into d20 rules, and it's not made for that. The modifiers are pretty much all there already. Having two or three charts pre-written to cover usual buffs would speed things up quite a bit.

[Kyace]

If a bot is going to be deciding the result, then really the chart can be as confusing as you want, the players can just treat it as a black box system.

Also, in Gezina's defense, you yourself was already using the 1d20 + x system so it made sense to assume you were at least basing this off of d20 rules.

[Grr]

Just because something uses a d20 doesn't mean it is the d20 ruleset.

[ArmorArmadillo]

Well, I'd prefer the standard D20 System, but in response to your question it is not at all cumbersome, I find it easy to understand and simple.

[Kyace]

Just because something uses a d20 doesn't mean it is the d20 ruleset.

I understand that, I was merely saying that it was logical to assume that you might have been. Possibly incorrect, but much of what is said is context based anyway.

The first paragraph of the SRD for d20. Beyond ACs and +1 greatswords, the very basis of d20 starts with the mechanic of if (1d20 + x >= y) then success.

You are free to use whichever system you want, but if you post a thread in a homebrew section that is mostly d20 and it isn't d20, you may not wish to get angry when posters think it is.

If you were not angry, then ignore this post.

Generally, once you put the system into a program/bot, the rules can be as complex as you wish. This is why most tactical RPGs/Turn-based strat games can be so involved, because since players don't have to understand the details, you can include stuff like "If you fire up wind, you are more 3% likely to miss" or "Left handed sword fighters gain a 2.5% bonus against right handed mace bearers". You'd want to tell the players the general rules, but they don't have to figure out exactly how misses and parries are decided.

[Grr]

Well the title of the forum is d20 & RPG, not just d20. =p

I want the system to work for pencil and paper games too. Not just a scripted bot in irc. The bot for irc is only to make the DM's task easier. I'm planning on putting in commands that allow the players to assess the status of all the foes in combat with them via a private message with the bot. So they would type /battlestatus or /bs and it would send a private message to them listing each foe and their visual status: Orc1 - Healthy, Orc2 - Wounded, Orc3 - Wounded, Orc4 - Dead, Orc5 - Healthy/Stunned. It could work for any number of rpg systems with some work. It's purpose is to keep the players from having to ask constantly who's wounded, dead, dying.

The d40 - 20 is an easier way to do the rolls, but it takes the defender out of the rolling process. Rolling for the defense isn't that bad in a pnp game. It keeps people paying attention and since everyones at the table, it's easier to get them to roll. I've noticed in my many irc campaigns, that keeping the interest of the players can be hard at times when combat slogs down a bit or players have to keep asking what is where, wounded, etc.

[Jayabalard]

that seems kind of cumbersome to me, and I think that makes it so that people miss quite a bit more than they would previously.

[Grr]

that seems kind of cumbersome to me, and I think that makes it so that people miss quite a bit more than they would previously.

That's kind of the point. To make it more like real duels with melee weapons. A lot of parries, blocks, and dodges before that telling blow is landed and the loser goes down like a sack of potatoes.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I like it. I may use it in my next campaign. However, i would like to wait to see it completed... But certainly a yes!

Oh snap, i just clicked the wrong button! Oh well.

[Grr]

That's about all it is Gwyn. I could probably whip up a d20 version pretty easily.

Attack Roll = d20 + BAB + Str Mod + Size Mod + Other Stuff

Defense Chart
0 to 10 = Miss (This is the base 10 ac everyone gets)
11 to Avoid = Dodge (Add in any dodge/size bonuses as well)
Avoid+1 to Avoid+Armor = Armor Hit (Armor AC bonus)
Armor+1 to Armor+Shield = Block (Shield AC bonus)
Shield+1 to Shield+Misc = Other (Other bonuses like luck/holy/sacred/whatever)
Misc+1 or higher = Hit

If you want to give them a parry skill or something you can toss it in there somewhere. So a fighter with platemail and dex of 12, a large shield would have a defense chart of:

Defense Chart (AC 21)
0-10 = Miss
11 = Dodge
12-19 = Armor/Parry
20 = Shield Block
21+ = Hit

It looks like you're missing one point of AC from the shield block, but that's just because in d20 you only have to equal the AC, not exceed it.

[Tor the Fallen]

It'd be great if you could get a computer to do it for you.

[Matthew]

What exactly is the aim of this system?

[XtheYeti]

meh, sounds ok to me. but thats just me

[Indon]

If you're running the system automated, then it can add flavor to a fight. If it's not automated, or not automated enough, then it risks being a time-consumer that weakens suspension of disbelief.

[Grr]

I would think it would only be time consuming if you have inattentive players who don't write down beforehand.

[Raum]

Pagemaster (Rolemaster to those who haven't played it.) killed the idea of looking up results on charts for me. Yes it's simple, but anytime you look something up you're slowing the game. Worse, you're interrupting the flow of combat. It can easily kill immersion.

If you get it set up as a script where all the look ups are internal to the code's logic it probably won't be bad. But as a chart...yes it's cumbersome.

[Grr]

It's one chart that each player has on their character sheet. It's not Rolemaster...