LGBTAI+ 55: AKA The Page We'll Get to if I Don't Make a New One

[SiuiS]

I don't really think so, at least not for the sort of thing I'm thinking of. I'm thinking more "how to fake/hide boobs", "how to create/hide curves", voice training exercises, the hiding stubble with make up stuff we just had a page ago even, things like that. "How to respond to mistakes, how to respond to bigotry, and how to tell the difference" could be good too. I feel like "I think I'm trans, now what?" might be handy, but also might vary from place to place. In any case, that's the sort of thing I'm thinking of, and there's room in that for different perspectives.
But in any case, I am interested in the more personal side anyway: if you could go back to when you first even found out that transsexuality was a thing, what would you tell yourself - practical or otherwise?

I'll check the links that were offered later, thanks.

That's what I mean. There is no good "how to voice train", there's only "how I taught myself voice training, which may or may not work for you". We've even had women in videos upset the locals because of how well and truly female they sounded compared to te stuff you learn on YouTube.

I don't know at all what I would think or say or do, honestly. D=

I will start collecting this information now though. May as well, yeah? I'll start adding it every thread.

[Serpentine]

"How I taught myself voice training" is just fine, though, and can easily be supplemented with "and also there's these other ways you can try, too". Which would actually be better than just the one anyway.

[SiuiS]

While I understand the concept, I think it's dangerous. Body stuff, especially body stuff with a rote mental component, can be counterintuitive. It's common for things which help short term to cause long term harm, up to and including a condition named after a singer; he lost his voice and found it was because every time he went to sing, his entire torso locked up it took a lot of reconditioning to break that.

Voice training can instill a lot of habits that will take years to undo compared to the months one would have seen if they had done it the 'proper' way. Proper Bei. In scare quotes because who even knows, anyway? I'm less judging, more advocating building a body of knowledge to draw from.

Of course, there's always the harm of not advancing at all to consider. On those cases it is better for the woman to get even mediocre, mid term help. But it makes me wish the research had been done and established and disseminated enough that there were no mediocre choices. Only excellent ones. Which I suppose is the heart of my statement "we should build one".

[Anarion]

"How I taught myself voice training" is just fine, though, and can easily be supplemented with "and also there's these other ways you can try, too". Which would actually be better than just the one anyway.

The main thing you might do is collect a list from your trans friend of things that she cares about. As was also discussed here recently, different women feel differently about how they dress, speak, wear makeup, carry themselves, and so forth. I have no personal experience with most of this (other than my voice being mistaken for a woman on the phone frequently because I tend to lilt upwards on my "hello"), but I can help list some things out.

Clothing: Colors, styles? Still wants jeans or wants dresses? Tons of pink yes/no?
Voice: Mezzo or soprano? What's the ideal?
Makeup: a lot or a litte? Natural tone covering up facial hair only? Very bright reds?
Hairstyle: long? Styled up or down? Anything done to it? Tied back?

I dunno, I'll start with that. I'm sure lots of people here can offer specific suggestions for products or techniques once they know more.

[bluewind95]

I read the replies and thank you all. I have, unfortunately, been too low on energy to reply. I will ASAP.

[SiuiS]

Man.

What's a mezzo? What's a soprano?

Sound stuff is not stuff I can learn through reading. Not texts, at any rate. And it's such a basic thing for everyone who does beauty-noise that it's too fundamental for them to real down and explain. ._.

[Anarion]

Man.

What's a mezzo? What's a soprano?

Sound stuff is not stuff I can learn through reading. Not texts, at any rate. And it's such a basic thing for everyone who does beauty-noise that it's too fundamental for them to real down and explain. ._.

Mezzo=low woman's voice, soprano=high woman's voice. Old terms, somewhat formal. Also, and this is stupidly confusing, technically it's sorprano and mezzo-soprano.

[Heliomance]

Okay, turns out that I do still have an appointment with the therapist on the 15th of April, the appointment I missed was with the endocrinologist. They say they sent a letter, and I'm honestly not sure if I remember getting it or not, but it didn't get into my calendar either way. I told them I had no record of it and they say I'll be able to rebook, but I need to write into them physically to do so. For some reason, email is not acceptable, it has to be a physical letter sent by post. Ho hum.

[Anarion]

Okay, turns out that I do still have an appointment with the therapist on the 15th of April, the appointment I missed was with the endocrinologist. They say they sent a letter, and I'm honestly not sure if I remember getting it or not, but it didn't get into my calendar either way. I told them I had no record of it and they say I'll be able to rebook, but I need to write into them physically to do so. For some reason, email is not acceptable, it has to be a physical letter sent by post. Ho hum.

It's okay, the world will catch up to 1995 someday.

[Serpentine]

The main thing you might do is collect a list from your trans friend of things that she cares about. As was also discussed here recently, different women feel differently about how they dress, speak, wear makeup, carry themselves, and so forth. I have no personal experience with most of this (other than my voice being mistaken for a woman on the phone frequently because I tend to lilt upwards on my "hello"), but I can help list some things out.

Clothing: Colors, styles? Still wants jeans or wants dresses? Tons of pink yes/no?
Voice: Mezzo or soprano? What's the ideal?
Makeup: a lot or a litte? Natural tone covering up facial hair only? Very bright reds?
Hairstyle: long? Styled up or down? Anything done to it? Tied back?

I dunno, I'll start with that. I'm sure lots of people here can offer specific suggestions for products or techniques once they know more.

I did try to get some specific topics she wanted to know about, but I don't think even she really knows exactly. Like, I think she's at the point where she doesn't know enough to know what questions to ask. Plus it was pretty busy and distracting at the time. She just finished with "any tips you have would be good!" She did mention her voice a couple of times, and something about clothing, and someone made a very unfortunate joke about her boobs (I really hope he'd just missed the announcement and still thought she was just a dude wearing a dress for his lady character... But at least the people around came back with "but many women don't have much in the way of boobs" and the like). I suggested she have a look here, might link her directly.

Okay, tu that I do still have an appointment with the therapist on the 15th of April, the appointment I missed was with the endocrinologist. They say they sent a letter, and I'm honestly not sure if I remember getting it or not, but it didn't get into my calendar either way. I told them I had no record of it and they say I'll be able to rebook, but I need to write into them physically to do so. For some reason, email is not acceptable, it has to be a physical letter sent by post. Ho hum.

Sorry for mangling that quote, but that's completely bizarre. Why on earth would they demand snailmail? Weird.

[noparlpf]

Okay, turns out that I do still have an appointment with the therapist on the 15th of April, the appointment I missed was with the endocrinologist. They say they sent a letter, and I'm honestly not sure if I remember getting it or not, but it didn't get into my calendar either way. I told them I had no record of it and they say I'll be able to rebook, but I need to write into them physically to do so. For some reason, email is not acceptable, it has to be a physical letter sent by post. Ho hum.

Geez, what a pain. At least it's not too bad.

It's okay, the world will catch up to 1995 someday.

Who the heck do these people think owns a home fax machine? Let alone pays for the phone line or whatever? Everyone has a cell phone now. Besides, nearly every home printer now has at least a low-end scanner built in. Just let me email the thing. They can print it out just fine on their end and keep a digital copy. So much easier.

[golentan]

So... there's a bathroom picture campaign showing how ridiculous trans exclusionary policies are. One of the more effective components, tying into the fact that transmen are often forgotten?

Big, muscular, bearded men in women's restrooms. Apparently some people are freaking out over the realization that this is a consequence of excluding people from the correct restroom.

On the one hand, you go guys! On the other hand, I'm kind of sad that this reinforces my old impression that for a lot of people, well, they hear trans and they assume "guy in dress," they don't realize that a transwoman is actually a woman, and they don't realize that transmen exist at all. I also feel like there's a lot of... Homophobia seems to be more antagonistic towards gay men, and more sort of condescending towards gay women... It seems to be a sexism thing on several fronts. The LGBT boogeyman is a gay male, sometimes a gay "male" in a dress, and "he's" coming to prey on your children... Stereotypes and misinformation everywhere.

The positive thing about that, for me? An awareness campaign seems like (as so often) a way to dispel a lot of those myths.

[SiuiS]

It's okay, the world will catch up to 1995 someday.

You take your threats elsewhere, mister!

I did try to get some specific topics she wanted to know about, but I don't think even she really knows exactly. Like, I think she's at the point where she doesn't know enough to know what questions to ask. Plus it was pretty busy and distracting at the time. She just finished with "any tips you have would be good!" She did mention her voice a couple of times, and something about clothing, and someone made a very unfortunate joke about her boobs (I really hope he'd just missed the announcement and still thought she was just a dude wearing a dress for his lady character... But at least the people around came back with "but many women don't have much in the way of boobs" and the like). I suggested she have a look here, might link her directly.


Sorry for mangling that quote, but that's completely bizarre. Why on earth would they demand snailmail? Weird.

Understandable. I think we can probably put together a thing. I mean, a list to make a list from.

So... there's a bathroom picture campaign showing how ridiculous trans exclusionary policies are. One of the more effective components, tying into the fact that transmen are often forgotten?

Big, muscular, bearded men in women's restrooms. Apparently some people are freaking out over the realization that this is a consequence of excluding people from the correct restroom.

On the one hand, you go guys! On the other hand, I'm kind of sad that this reinforces my old impression that for a lot of people, well, they hear trans and they assume "guy in dress," they don't realize that a transwoman is actually a woman, and they don't realize that transmen exist at all. I also feel like there's a lot of... Homophobia seems to be more antagonistic towards gay men, and more sort of condescending towards gay women... It seems to be a sexism thing on several fronts. The LGBT boogeyman is a gay male, sometimes a gay "male" in a dress, and "he's" coming to prey on your children... Stereotypes and misinformation everywhere.

The positive thing about that, for me? An awareness campaign seems like (as so often) a way to dispel a lot of those myths.

Ha!


*


So I have a life changing thing coming up soon. Does anyone have ANY IDEA how difficult it is for a trans woman to end up as a foster parent? I'm on the strange middle-f-Venn-diagram ground of "most stable blood relation" and "viewed as mentally ill by the Establishment".

[Zurvan]

Remind her that there are plenty of women that don't fit the chromosomal "normal". The Olympics stopped using chromosome testing because a significant number of women (like, 1 in 400, about the same percentage as people who are trans) have an extra X chromosome, and it was causing them to fail the testing and be banned from competing for no reason.

Also, look up Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. It's rarer, but people with it are women who have a completely "male" phenotype, but who are assigned (and, more often than normal, identify) as women. Chromosomes are a horrible test for whether someone is male or female, because there are so many things that can cause one to vary from the norm. Our friendly neighborhood Noparlpf can go into extreme detail, but what I've posted are some of the main talking points.


~Phoenix~

That helped thanks!

If chromosomes were all that determined gender, HRT wouldn't work. May be time to return to the "what is possible with makeup, hrt, and surgery" photo cache. If you want more ammo to argue against these people, look up the aforementioned androgen insensitivity, etc. However, you're simply patching holes that people are boring into the boat.

On a strategic level, when/where is all this bullying happening? Is there a way to avoid the presence of these people?

They are her classmates. Some even used to be my friends.

Me too, actually.


This, mostly. Avoidance, if possible, is the best strategy, because I have a feeling there's no reasoning these people.
(Also because the best advice I can come up with to deal directly with the bullying itself is to reply something along the lines of "well on a genetic level level you're mostly a pig/chimpanzee/dolphin/[other animal we're pretty close genetically to]" but that'd not be helping at all, despite being technically true.
Now, sharing that fact with your friend might help convey the message that genetics is not a matter you should focus too much on. However, telling her directly about Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome would surely do a better job at it: these people were assigned female at birth, identify as female, and might learn that they don't have XX chromosomes in the first place. That' the best argument she can be - is - a woman no matter what her Y chromosome might claim.)

She can't avoid they are her classmates. And the teachers don't care much most are homophobes too.

Besides what everyone told you I guess you could try to take her thoughts away from that kind of stuff.

She already have to deal with all this pressure and bullying so why don't you use the time you two have together to think of other stuff. Things she like, thinngs that will make her feel happy.

Spend a good amount of quality time with her and maybe she will feel better. Her troubles won't go away but she will remember that there are better things in this world and maybe she won't care so much about it.

Yeah I really try to do that. I'm one of her last friends.

Also welcome. Nice to see another gay guy aorund here.

Also I don't like chest hair I think it is ugly. I know that guys who keep that look very manly but I just don't like it.

On the one hand, you go guys! On the other hand, I'm kind of sad that this reinforces my old impression that for a lot of people, well, they hear trans and they assume "guy in dress," they don't realize that a transwoman is actually a woman, and they don't realize that transmen exist at all. I also feel like there's a lot of... Homophobia seems to be more antagonistic towards gay men, and more sort of condescending towards gay women... It seems to be a sexism thing on several fronts. The LGBT boogeyman is a gay male, sometimes a gay "male" in a dress, and "he's" coming to prey on your children... Stereotypes and misinformation everywhere.

It is because of A... Nope I said I whould not say this kind of stuff so I won't.

[The Succubus]

Important LGBT related question for Golly - how are the piggies doing and can we have pictures?

[golentan]

Important LGBT related question for Golly - how are the piggies doing and can we have pictures?

What, grandpa and percy, the pets? They're doing great, and of course you can have pictures!

Spoiler: Percy the Pig

Show

Spoiler: Grandpa the Cat

Show

[SiuiS]

Aww~ grandpa looks snuggler than I thought he would~

I imagined a scraggly alleycat style grandpa. :3

[Anarion]

What, grandpa and percy, the pets? They're doing great, and of course you can have pictures!

Spoiler: Percy the Pig

Show

Spoiler: Grandpa the Cat

Show

It's pictures like this that make me wish I didn't start sneezing anytime I spend more than 4 hours around pets that shed hair.

[golentan]

Aww~ grandpa looks snuggler than I thought he would~

I imagined a scraggly alleycat style grandpa. :3

Heh. He was actively fat when I got him, and while he's only got three teeth he hasn't been on the streets for years.

[Lissou]

Awww I want to snuggle Grandpa.
Percy looks interesting. I thought albino guinea pigs were white, and he looks grey.

Both are very cute either way.

[golentan]

Awww I want to snuggle Grandpa.
Percy looks interesting. I thought albino guinea pigs were white, and he looks grey.

Both are very cute either way.

He's actually not an albino. He's got a pigment mutation (hence the red eyes) but it only seems to affect the eyes, everything else is normal. He's actually kinda tan.

[Mono Vertigo]

Aww, cuddly animals! Grandpa is a great name for a pet!



Some of you may know that currently there some debate going on in the USA about which toilets trans* people should go to. (It's not exactly new but it's taking new proportions right now.) BBC article here: http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-31860346
Leaving aside the legal parts... it's great to see many people taking a stand against this travesty of a policy.
(Also, last time I checked, lesbians, gays and bisexuals alike are using the same bathroom as the people they're attracted to, but nobody has ever called for them to be banned from these bathrooms for safety/sexual harassment reasons. So we've got, among several other flaws in their thought process, a good old case of "I didn't think this thing through at all". Which, again, is not new. But it's always comforting to find 100% objective arguments against such crap.)

[Miriel]

ntly there some debate going on in the USA about which toilets trans* people should go to. (It's not exactly new but it's taking new proportions right now.) BBC article here: http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-31860346
Leaving aside the legal parts... it's great to see many people taking a stand against this travesty of a policy.
(Also, last time I checked, lesbians, gays and bisexuals alike are using the same bathroom as the people they're attracted to, but nobody has ever called for them to be banned from these bathrooms for safety/sexual harassment reasons. So we've got, among several other flaws in their thought process, a good old case of "I didn't think this thing through at all". Which, again, is not new. But it's always comforting to find 100% objective arguments against such crap.)

Actually, I'm taking part in this. It started in Canada with #PlettPutMeHere, AFAIK I'm the second person to have started doing that. I've been post at least one picture everyday for a week, but media only occasionnally report on me.

[Astrella]

Actually, I'm taking part in this. It started in Canada with #PlettPutMeHere, AFAIK I'm the second person to have started doing that. I've been post at least one picture everyday for a week, but media only occasionnally report on me.

I've seen one of your pictures circulate as part of a tumblr ppost about the Canada situation.

[Mono Vertigo]

Actually, I'm taking part in this. It started in Canada with #PlettPutMeHere, AFAIK I'm the second person to have started doing that. I've been post at least one picture everyday for a week, but media only occasionnally report on me.

Really? That's great! I completely missed it, I'm not an active Twitter user, and I'm not on Tumblr at all.
That reminds me of something though. BF's aunt (who's trans) is planning to move to Canada, and it may happen this year. If I get the chance to see her before that, do you think I should inform her of this (provided it's still relevant by that time)?

[noparlpf]

Actually, I'm taking part in this. It started in Canada with #PlettPutMeHere, AFAIK I'm the second person to have started doing that. I've been post at least one picture everyday for a week, but media only occasionally report on me.

Yeah, I saw you on tumblr last night.

[Jormengand]

So today I talked to a guy I haven't spoken to in a while, and we kinda jokingly hit on each other.

And then it kinda become less jokey and I gave him a kiss.

And he smiled at me.

He's totally straight.

[JusticeZero]

And then it kinda become less jokey and I gave him a kiss. And he smiled at me. He's totally straight.

...augh, suddenly I don't remember your presentation to know which form and flavor of "" I should use there! Should I giggle, grin mischievously, or squee? So confusing! *flails*

[Shamash]

So today I talked to a guy I haven't spoken to in a while, and we kinda jokingly hit on each other.

And then it kinda become less jokey and I gave him a kiss.

And he smiled at me.

He's totally straight.

That escalated quickly!

Straight? What you mean?

Give us more details!

[JusticeZero]

So apparently a clothes store has colonized the tag #Agender. This is irritating me..