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  1. - Top - End - #1021
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by One Tin Soldier View Post
    Generally, rolling fewer successes than your opponent counts as failure.
    This is especially apparent in Clash of Wills or Grapples. If you lose you control over your opponent, your attack fails and in many cases is reversed onto you. Same applies to your opponent.

    Exceptional Success is considering having 5 more successes more than your opponent.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by Almarck View Post
    This is especially apparent in Clash of Wills or Grapples. If you lose you control over your opponent, your attack fails and in many cases is reversed onto you. Same applies to your opponent.

    Exceptional Success is considering having 5 more successes more than your opponent.
    Actually, that second part is up for debate. It seems more likely that you get an Exceptional Success for have at least 5 successes, and more successes than your opponent.
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  3. - Top - End - #1023
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by One Tin Soldier View Post
    Generally, rolling fewer successes than your opponent counts as failure.
    Does that mean that, for example, if one character rolls two successes and the other rolls four, that the one who rolled two successes can turn their roll into a dramatic failure for a beat? Or that if that character has a Condition or other effect that applies when they "fail" a roll, that that triggers?

    Quote Originally Posted by One Tin Soldier View Post
    It seems more likely that you get an Exceptional Success for have at least 5 successes, and more successes than your opponent.
    This is what the book says.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

  4. - Top - End - #1024
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by Sith_Happens View Post
    Does that mean that, for example, if one character rolls two successes and the other rolls four, that the one who rolled two successes can turn their roll into a dramatic failure for a beat? Or that if that character has a Condition or other effect that applies when they "fail" a roll, that that triggers?
    I'd say definitely yes on the latter and probably yes on the former. Dramatic Failures on contested rolls usually do something pretty nasty, though.
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  5. - Top - End - #1025
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    I think the general rule is that any failure can be turned into a dramatic failure... so, use at your own peril.
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  6. - Top - End - #1026
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Curious question here on celerity in 2nd Ed Vampire Requiem, it says you can apply defense to situations where you wouldn't be granted it normally, I'm sure the prime example of this is when someone uses firearms against you at range.

    My question is, does this apply also to explosives, especially trap triggered explosives?
    Situation is this, guy opens door which has been booby trapped with explosives so opening door equals boom. It would have been 10 Lethal at the time.

    I imagine it would as celerity suggests you become fast on a passive as well as active level. Though I could see someone saying they need Danger Sense to know to react in time.

  7. - Top - End - #1027
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    First off, Celerity penalizes Firearms attacks specifically rather than all Defense-denying attacks generally. Secondly, it specifically only works against attacks you're aware of. So it doubly doesn't work against an explosive booby-trap.

    You might be able to use the second active effect to GTFO from the blast area just before the explosion makes contact with you, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

  8. - Top - End - #1028
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by NooDM View Post
    Curious question here on celerity in 2nd Ed Vampire Requiem, it says you can apply defense to situations where you wouldn't be granted it normally, I'm sure the prime example of this is when someone uses firearms against you at range.

    My question is, does this apply also to explosives, especially trap triggered explosives?
    Situation is this, guy opens door which has been booby trapped with explosives so opening door equals boom. It would have been 10 Lethal at the time.

    I imagine it would as celerity suggests you become fast on a passive as well as active level. Though I could see someone saying they need Danger Sense to know to react in time.
    As has been said, it only works against attacks you are aware of. I would personally allow you to get the defence from Celerity if you knew the explosives were there, but if you haven't been able to spot the booby trap I'd need vitae to interrupt the trap's action to get to safety. But this is a personal ruling, and the answer is 'if it makes sense in the situation'.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  9. - Top - End - #1029
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    I'd consider the type of explosive too, if you're looking for further ways help/justify the scenario.

    Considering the speeds involved using Celerity, the ability to dodge real-time aiming or dodge actual bullets, it would make the most sense to be able to dodge something like a cluster of abruptly de-pinned grenades or a Bouncing Betty or something with a tripwire... something that gives either a moment's pause or has an unusually noticeable activation.

    The higher the tech, or the faster the ignition, the worse your chances- broken lasers, tripped circuits, near-instantaneous explosions and the like would be much harder to get the warning you'd need.

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    ...this is of course using RL justifications for why a rule might work like it does, and why/if it's appropriate to modify that rule because the game model was ambiguous- I've made no considerations of RAW or balance. Obviously isn't what you asked for, but I thought if you were undecided that it might be welcome.

  10. - Top - End - #1030
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    So, a bit late to the party, but I just read Dudes of Legend. Best mashups (discounting Murder Systems because it makes anything ten times better)? The most obvious are probably You Are a Deadly Schoolgirl + The Myth of the Magic Katana Is No Myth At All (Armor Ain't Got **** Against This Blade) + Mad Ninja Skillz (Knife Skillz) to be an unstoppable killing machine and John Woo Two-Gun Mojo + The Truth About Desert Eagles + Bullets Ain't Got Nothing on You for the ranged version.

    I also can't help but notice that one isn't prohibited from having both Fearful Priapism and Sacred Vagina, though they don't really synergize with each other anyways and I can't think of a good third hack to go with them (for crunch purposes at least, if we're talking fluff than the obvious choice is Bare Thy Chest to Conquer All).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

  11. - Top - End - #1031
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Dudes of Legend is the best supplement ever. I've been campaigning for it to be added to the sanctioned book list for my LARP club for years.

  12. - Top - End - #1032
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Heck, that post cracked me up just to type.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

  13. - Top - End - #1033
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Hi, new to this thread. Never played Changeling: The Lost before, but I'm joining my college's roleplaying club and I have a character idea that I want to see if I can have some help statting up.

    I was just re-watching the Me!Me!Me! video and started thinking that it looked a lot like a Changeling's Durance and how cool it would be to create a character based off that video.

    My backstory would be the same that I've been seeing in the video explanations: an otaku named Shuu who slowly let his connections to the world around fall apart as he sunk deeper into an obsession with otaku culture and virtual girls. When a Gentry who styled itself as a punisher of crimes of lust and betrayal saw him abandoning the real Hana (as shown in the video), she spirited him into her realm to punish him. Ripping him apart mentally and physically on a constant basis, only to heal him and send him to a simulacrum of his own room to make him think it was a dream. The events of the video cover about one or two cycles of this torture.

    I'm debating whether the Gentry took Hana-chan too, to show him just what he had abandoned. Maybe it even shaped her into a Fairest to heighten the effect. If he left her behind, she might become a vengeful loyalist out for his blood.

    I'm not sure how he finally got out. Maybe the Gentry got bored of its current form and he snuck out while it was planning out its new role.

    So, I'm thinking that he could be some kind of armored Ogre who's good with Firearms and Missiles, but I really am not sure what to do with him past that.
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  14. - Top - End - #1034
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    My long-standing gaming group just decided to start a oWoD Vampire game. I have 2 weeks to come up with a concept. I kind-of know what I want to play, but since I know almost nothing about oWoD clans, am not sure how to make it work...

    Modern day setting. Probably mid-level generation (that hasn't been decided yet). Sabbat.

    I'd like to be the kind of character that is underestimated. Sure, he can fight, but he'd rather do something other than get his own hands dirty. (Tzemize is an option, but I think another player is going that route.) I'm also thinking foppish, though that isn't a requirement.

    Help?
    Last edited by Kesnit; 2015-09-24 at 07:36 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #1035
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Bases on my limited Sabbat knowledge, Lasombra fits the attitude you want. They take being shadowy manipulators both very seriously and very literally.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Tremere Antitribu fit the 'not getting their hands dirty' bit. Tremere have no physical combat Disciplines (Potence, Fortitude, Celerity) but Thaumaturgy used smartly is a deadly force in its own right
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  17. - Top - End - #1037
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    Tremere Antitribu fit the 'not getting their hands dirty' bit. Tremere have no physical combat Disciplines (Potence, Fortitude, Celerity) but Thaumaturgy used smartly is a deadly force in its own right
    The group is playing with the assumption that the Tremere founder is still around and cursed the Valdore (spelling?) to cause any Tremere who partakes to die. (It's in one of the books, though I'm not sure where.)
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  18. - Top - End - #1038
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by Kesnit View Post
    The group is playing with the assumption that the Tremere founder is still around and cursed the Valdore (spelling?) to cause any Tremere who partakes to die. (It's in one of the books, though I'm not sure where.)
    Vaulderie
    I would just point out that just because its in one of the books doesn't mean it isn't contradicted in another. Certainly my 'Players Guide to the Sabbat' makes no mention of it. This is deliberate action on the part of White Wolf, partly to indicate the uncertain nature of the world, where PC's can never be sure of anything and partly so the ST can choose the background they want to play and still be able to surprise the PC's
    However assuming your ST isn't allowing Tremere Antitribu then, maybe Toreador Antitribu. That would fit with the 'foppish' thing as the Sabbat Toreador are as obsessed with appearance as the main part of the Clan and their decadence would fit with the 'not getting their hands dirty'. Also Toreado tend to get underestimated as 'effete artistic' types which can be a bad idea for a Clan that gets Celerity as a Clan Discipline
    Last edited by comicshorse; 2015-09-24 at 09:10 AM.
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  19. - Top - End - #1039
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by comicshorse View Post
    Vaulderie
    Thanks! I'm away from my books, so could only guess.

    I would just point out that just because its in one of the books doesn't mean it isn't contradicted in another.
    I know. I didn't mean to infer "it's in a book, so it must be true." I only meant that is the way the group has decided to play it.

    However assuming your ST isn't allowing Tremere Antitribu then, maybe Toreador Antitribu.
    That's one option I have come up with so far. But since I don't know oWoD much at all, I'm not sure if anything else would fit what I want.
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  20. - Top - End - #1040
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by Kesnit View Post
    I'd like to be the kind of character that is underestimated. Sure, he can fight, but he'd rather do something other than get his own hands dirty. (Tzemize is an option, but I think another player is going that route.) I'm also thinking foppish, though that isn't a requirement.

    Help?
    Some ideas:
    Tzimisce sounds like a good bet as you said.
    Lasombra can also work, but as I understand they prefer to be known as a power.
    Ventrue Antritrib works better than Lasombra, but people will expect you to either be a) planning to nab more power or b) jealous of power you don't have.
    Nosferatu, if you're willing to take the ugliness (I would be if I ever player) are always underestimated. You don't have as good a discipline spread as the other clans mentioned, but Animalism is a useful tool for gathering information, as is obfuscate, and potence gives you an edge if you decide to fight. Other clans also expect the Nossies to essentially be dirty skum selling information. They do sell information, and as a tight clan* they get the advantage of having a better information network than the Ventrue, Lasombra, Toreador, or any other 'high clan', meaning that as long as you have permission to sell the information you can justify having the equivalent of resources 3+ and several dots of allies, contacts, and retainers, giving you access to people who can supply resources and muscle for you if you need it.

    *This is why I didn't say Antritribu, as there is no difference. If you go to a Camarilla city the Nosferatu there will except you as one of their clan, which means that you get access to what Nossies in pretty much any city dig up if you can supply your information.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  21. - Top - End - #1041
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Lasombra can also work, but as I understand they prefer to be known as a power.
    Ventrue Antritrib works better than Lasombra, but people will expect you to either be a) planning to nab more power or b) jealous of power you don't have.
    As I understand both clans, this makes sense.

    Nosferatu, if you're willing to take the ugliness (I would be if I ever player) are always underestimated.
    Since I don't know much about how the game will be run, I'm hesitant to play a Nos. It would work well, or not, depending on the premise of the game.

    meaning that as long as you have permission to sell the information you can justify having the equivalent of resources 3+ and several dots of allies, contacts, and retainers, giving you access to people who can supply resources and muscle for you if you need it.
    Although it's not confirmed, the ST said he is thinking about having the first game start with a "Shovel Party," with the PC's as the "guest of honor." (Yes, I do know what that means.) Given that, I don't think I can justify allies or contacts, given that I assume I would lose any mortal ones I had with my sudden appearance change.
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  22. - Top - End - #1042
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by Kesnit View Post
    As I understand both clans, this makes sense.



    Since I don't know much about how the game will be run, I'm hesitant to play a Nos. It would work well, or not, depending on the premise of the game.



    Although it's not confirmed, the ST said he is thinking about having the first game start with a "Shovel Party," with the PC's as the "guest of honor." (Yes, I do know what that means.) Given that, I don't think I can justify allies or contacts, given that I assume I would lose any mortal ones I had with my sudden appearance change.
    Obfuscate 3 my dear friend.

    And losing mortal ones really depends on what your GM is like. In the modern world you can interact with people without it ever being in person.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  23. - Top - End - #1043
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Question about spirits:

    Quote Originally Posted by God-Machine Chronicle
    Spirits may attempt to gorge themselves on a source of appropriate Essence. Once per day, when in proximity (even if it’s on the other side of the Gauntlet) to a suitable Condition, a spirit can roll Power + Finesse, regaining successes in Essence. If the spirit is still in the Shadow, the dice pool is penalized according to Gauntlet strength.
    Is that once per day at all or once per day per Condition? As in, if a spirit finds two different Resonances that match it in the same day, can it gain Essence from both or only one?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

  24. - Top - End - #1044
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Grammar sez they can make the roll (and therefore regain the essence) once per day. "when in proximity (even if it’s on the other side of the Gauntlet) to a suitable Condition" is a condition on when they can make this one roll.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Grammar sez they can make the roll (and therefore regain the essence) once per day. "when in proximity (even if it’s on the other side of the Gauntlet) to a suitable Condition" is a condition on when they can make this one roll.
    On the one hand that's definitely what it seemed like it was saying to me too. On the other hand it craps all over the idea constantly bandied about in Werewolf that spirits are primarily motivated by wanting MOAR ESSENCE.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

  26. - Top - End - #1046
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    I'm all for Werewolves being wrong, but maybe it's just that Spirits simply can't do their voodoo more often than that.
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    I'm all for Werewolves being wrong, but maybe it's just that Spirits simply can't do their voodoo more often than that.
    It's not just about the Werewolves themselves being wrong, about half of everything the book says about spirit behavior and politics just sort of falls apart when a fire spirit can only harvest Essence from one fire per day, and only a few points at that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by Sith_Happens View Post
    It's not just about the Werewolves themselves being wrong, about half of everything the book says about spirit behavior and politics just sort of falls apart when a fire spirit can only harvest Essence from one fire per day, and only a few points at that.
    Consider perhaps the rule is intended to force spirits to multiply and spread sources out instead of relying on a single one.

    It also perhaps refers that each "item" has its own internal cool down limiting how much essence it can provide from "passively" harvesting a single source. In order to havest more, special means such as rituals or outright destroying the object needs to take place.

    Ergo, a fire spirit will be insentivised to create an inferno so as to completely negate the drawback of this limitation. He can only draw from a single fire at a time, but in an inferno, he's got plenty. And in order to draw more from a single specific blaze, he has to destroy his source utterly.
    Last edited by Almarck; 2015-09-25 at 06:47 PM.
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  29. - Top - End - #1049
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Sith_Happens's Avatar

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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Does the one-Door reduction for repeat social maneuvering attempts stack with itself? As in, if you're trying to maneuver someone you've successfully maneuvered twice before, do you get a one or two-Door discount?
    Revan avatar by kaptainkrutch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrylius View Post
    That's how wizards beta test their new animals. If it survives Australia, it's a go. Which in hindsight explains a LOT about Australia.

  30. - Top - End - #1050
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

    Has it ever been mentioned in any V:tM material that Childer automatically start with a 1-step blood bond to their sires as a consequence of the Embrace?

    I could swear I've seen something to that effect somewhere, but I could easily have misremembered. Or maybe it's just my own headcanon that I've conflated with printed material somewhere along the way; wouldn't surprise me.
    Last edited by Failed Phantasm; 2015-10-03 at 07:49 PM.

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