General WoD Discussion #4: Rage Against the God-Machine

[Blackhawk748]

They're not totally subservient. They just can't decide WHEN to do their things. Some of them work towards freeing themselves from the Judges (achieving Apotheosis, but they're considered heretics and nobody knows if it even can be done), others act according to their ideologies (some work to free the oppressed, for personal power, curiosity, stuff like that). Mummies are still HUMAN at their hearts; they're just super-powerful humans from millenia ago with severe amnesia. They have similar drives as we do; some even make quasi-mummies called Sadikh out of their servants so that they'll have someone always with them, who understands them, because just like us they get lonely.

Regarding artifacts, generally they don't destroy artifacts, but these are modern times, artifacts get destroyed or damaged by accident or by vandals or by philistines.

Ok so whatever i think and immortal human would want to do is what Mummies do. Ok i can work with that.

Also as to the PDF thing, if the Werewolf 2E pdf is as good as my Hunter 1E one, you will be happy. Its a really nice PDF

[SiuiS]

-6? Man, that's worse than the initiative penalty for most guns. It seems the balancing factor for guns and melee is that melee is much faster now with using built in weapons or flatout brawling doing no penalties. I like this change. Still, that chainsaw though, a minimum of 6L damage against an unarmored foe.

Also, I personally find the quality of the book much better than the original Werewolf NWoD 1e book myself. Better constructed, better bookmarks, and things follow the typical WoD book formats. Another neat thing is that all of the important rules for running a game are in the book itself, so you don't even need to own a copy of anything but Werewolf 2e to run a game. You may still need to find things using a search command, but it's not too bad. My only issue was finding the spirit rules for totems but that only took like 10 minutes.

There might still be some errors or hiccups though.

You will probably immediately just flip out once you see what some of the big changes are. So much stuff is redesigned and revamped, the only thing able to be ported from 1e might be the gifts from Signs of the Moon and the fetishes. Entire sections of old gifts wouldn't work or fit the new system at all without serious redesign to convert for the Facets system.

That's a good sell. Tell me though, are all the rules in there? I find demon is insufficient for, say, making mortals. It ony has the relevant info for Demon stuff. Some of the chargen just doesn't overlap so they leave it out. I'm having trouble with specifics, right now – it's always stuff that comes up rarely. But integrity rolls and such, I think those are the ones. Is werewolf the same?

(I suspect the rules are somewhere in the actual text, but they aren't in the appendix which deals with all this stuff).

I don't know; I have pre-formatted PDFs of various chapters, rather than the whole finished product. Reads just fine to me, but I don't generally have an issue with using electronic formats, so I'm coming from a different position to you.

Okay. I'll probably just end up with the book then. Eventually. A search shows that only the PDF is available? D: man, that's going to hurt. >_<


Kiero, would it be within bounds for me to get just the Blood and Bone rules from you? The current set you have? I am unsure if that is fair use. I only want them to try and engineer something for changeling, but I can't buy a book that doesn't exist yet.

Ok so whatever i think and immortal human would want to do is what Mummies do. Ok i can work with that.

Also as to the PDF thing, if the Werewolf 2E pdf is as good as my Hunter 1E one, you will be happy. Its a really nice PDF

Imagine. You're an immortal human with an agenda. You wake up and you don't know your agenda. You're basically an activated sleeper agent. But unlike most spies, you're the guy who blows everything up, not the guy who covert stuff like sneaking info.

[Blackhawk748]

Imagine. You're an immortal human with an agenda. You wake up and you don't know your agenda. You're basically an activated sleeper agent. But unlike most spies, you're the guy who blows everything up, not the guy who covert stuff like sneaking info.

Yay more info! I love having more to work with, might actually get Mummy just so i can get more info.


Also, and this is completely out of left field, but does anyone know if they updated Highlander: the Gathering (aka Immortals: the Gathering) to nWoD? As im watching the movies again (in all their cheesy glory) and i was thinking about dropping a pair into my game.

[Tome]

That's a good sell. Tell me though, are all the rules in there? I find demon is insufficient for, say, making mortals. It ony has the relevant info for Demon stuff. Some of the chargen just doesn't overlap so they leave it out. I'm having trouble with specifics, right now – it's always stuff that comes up rarely. But integrity rolls and such, I think those are the ones. Is werewolf the same?

(I suspect the rules are somewhere in the actual text, but they aren't in the appendix which deals with all this stuff).

It doesn't quite cover everything for mortals. Fortunately, everything it leaves out is in the free GMC update.

Okay. I'll probably just end up with the book then. Eventually. A search shows that only the PDF is available? D: man, that's going to hurt. >_<

It's only just been released. They give it a few weeks for the public to pick it over for errors before they send it off for print.

Something I reeeeeally wish other companies would do. Or, you know, actually errata things at all (looking at you Catalyst).

Kiero, would it be within bounds for me to get just the Blood and Bone rules from you? The current set you have? I am unsure if that is fair use. I only want them to try and engineer something for changeling, but I can't buy a book that doesn't exist yet.

I can give you a quick paraphrased summary.

Your Blood archetype is who you are on the hunt, the primal side of yourself that comes out when you let instinct dictate your actions under pressure. Whenever you make a bad choice in the heat of the moment in accordance with your Blood archetype, regain a Willpower point. If you take it a step further and allow yourself to succumb to Kuruth (death rage) or call a sacred hunt on a whim in accordance with your archetype, regain all your Willpower points.

The Bone archetype is who you are when you have a moment to think, the person you see yourself as and the behaviours you can rely on. When you fight off the rage and take an action based on more rational motives in accordance with your Bone archetype, regain a Willpower point. When you double down and let your rational mind interfere with the hunt or cause conflict within the pack in accordance with your Bone archetype, regain all Willpower points.

In both cases there has to be some element of risk to it.

The example Blood archetypes are The Alpha, The Challenger, The Destroyer, The Fox, The Monster and The Soldier.

The example Bone archetypes are Community Organiser, Cub, Guru, Hedonist, Lone Wolf, Wallflower.

[Almarck]

Werewolf does not feature the normal integrity mechanic nor does it not feature every mortal specific merit but in like chapter 4 or 5 it has pretty much everything you need. It seems like someone copied a good chunk of the GMC rules update, but added extra werewolf specific flair such as werewolves having claw attacks as an option or in healing wounds werewolves heal everything super fast.

It doesn't help you make normal mortals much more than the last werewolf book I believe but you can just skip adding the werewolf specific parts. One good thing about werewolf packs now is that it allows you to run non werewolves as members and g shows the implications and penalties non werewolves face for joining in. For instance one of my favorite rites "Great Hunt" turns every non werewolf into a wolf and gives them basic regeneration. This is a breaking point for non wolf blooded but wolf blooded accept the rite just fine.

[Kiero]

I'm playing a Wolf-Blooded character in an Uratha pack, though because we're not doing a troupe-style thing where everyone can have an Uratha, a Wolf-Blooded and a few humans, mine has been enhanced over the usual template. He has three Tells (instead of the usual one), a couple of Merits for free (Pack Bond and Raised by Wolves) and started with 30 Experiences.

[SiuiS]

It doesn't quite cover everything for mortals. Fortunately, everything it leaves out is in the free GMC update.

It's only just been released. They give it a few weeks for the public to pick it over for errors before they send it off for print.

Something I reeeeeally wish other companies would do. Or, you know, actually errata things at all (looking at you Catalyst).

Aye. I appreciate the concept, and saw the "if you buy the PDF now we'll discount the book later" tag which ameliorates my problem somewhat.

I can give you a quick paraphrased summary.

Appreciate it. I'm trying to get enough solid rules text to peruse, examine, and dissect to build a similar system for changeling though. I think between virtue/vice, blood/bone and the vampire one (mask/something else) I'll be able to kludge it together though. :)

[Almarck]

A part of me really thinks the term "reflection" should somehow be incorperated into the changeling virtue/vice replacements. The idea is that clarity is fragile as glass, afterall. And mirrors are fun.

Regardless, I'd offer whatever advice, critique or stuff you need.I am a fan of homebrew.


Also, in that note, anyone got any idea for good werewolf gifts from 1e to try to port over. I think the Signs of the Moon Gifts can be ported in as new Moon gifts, but anything else needs more work.

[SiuiS]

There was the neat but poorly explained cahalith one that gave you damage every round but either reduced all damage one degree or healed one degree of damage a turn.

[Almarck]

Where's that?

[Kiero]

Kiero, would it be within bounds for me to get just the Blood and Bone rules from you? The current set you have? I am unsure if that is fair use. I only want them to try and engineer something for changeling, but I can't buy a book that doesn't exist yet.

Did you check your PM Inbox?

[SiuiS]

Did you check your PM Inbox?

I did, I apologize. I didn't have room to say thanks

That is exactly what I needed. Now I just need to access my vampire PDF so I can have solid stuff to discuss with my sounding board. Phone has trouble with the file from rpg drive thru.


*


Speaking of, a question. What special rules do hunters have? They can gamble willpower, they have compacts and conspiracies as some combination of splat affiliation and powers tree. Anything else or badly understood?

[Hullu_Iivana]

Speaking of, a question. What special rules do hunters have? They can gamble willpower, they have compacts and conspiracies as some combination of splat affiliation and powers tree. Anything else or badly understood?

They can use Tactics to carry Vigil more efficiently. They also gain Practical Experience, that's used to buy Tactics, Skills and Merits and can be burned to quickly refill Willpower pool. And they also have few unique Merits, including the Endowments. That's about it.

[SiuiS]

I never came across that. What are tactics? As far as you can tell me, anyway. I may just wind up winging it. Practical XP was "tell me everything you think you learned today" right?

[Hullu_Iivana]

I never came across that. What are tactics? As far as you can tell me, anyway. I may just wind up winging it. Practical XP was "tell me everything you think you learned today" right?

That's pretty good summary of Practical XP, but the cell also gains it from defeating monsters, from critical successes and dramatic failures, innovative strategies, succesful Tactics and saving lifes of others. It's collective to the cell and can be shared for use when needed. Tactics are teamwork actions that the cell has created and practiced together and they range from efficient staking to cutting arms off from monsters, from shadowing to pre-battle psyching to shield cell members from mental attacks. They are varied, and quite useful. For example, Net Tactic, involves one member throwing net over the monster, others tackling and holding it in place and last member tying up the package for capture or killing strike.

[SiuiS]

That's amazing. Is this all available in the core book for hunter or do I need a variety of sources?

Could I just pinch the pack tactics merit from Werewilf? I have that already. If it's sufficiently different though...

[Almarck]

It's sorta different. Tactics can more or less be described as an extended teamwork feat with very specific setups but with much better benefits. In short, if you played Chrono-Trigger, they do special team moves.

Also, the base book has a wide selection of Tactics, but each of the supplements add more.

[Blackhawk748]

While the Core Hunter book has all you will really need, Spirit Slayers, Witch Finders, and Night Stalkers all add a lot of cool stuff. Slasher is also filled with a ton of cool stuff and its the closest thing Hunters have to a Nemesis. And finally we have Mortal Remains, which has our GMC update (yay!) and covers the otehr supernatural stuff the first three splats didnt cover (Geists, Promethians, Changelings, Mummies, and Demons).

All in all not necessary, but still awesome.

[SiuiS]

Alright. Looks like I'm going to start introducing ther game elements into my mortals game. Start pulling ideas from hunter, if they can get together and work as a unit.

I'm going to use the risking willpower rules (not sure if should use gmc version or just pinch the vigil's set... Probably the former), let them start training for group cohesion (I've already just about talked two of them into small unit tactics, which is a start, and I told them I'm using the demon rules for planning stuff), if I add in practical beats I think that covers all the incentive I need to get them focused on survival and long term cohesion over shooting dodos and winning battles and stuff.

[Blackhawk748]

Alright. Looks like I'm going to start introducing ther game elements into my mortals game. Start pulling ideas from hunter, if they can get together and work as a unit.

I'm going to use the risking willpower rules (not sure if should use gmc version or just pinch the vigil's set... Probably the former), let them start training for group cohesion (I've already just about talked two of them into small unit tactics, which is a start, and I told them I'm using the demon rules for planning stuff), if I add in practical beats I think that covers all the incentive I need to get them focused on survival and long term cohesion over shooting dodos and winning battles and stuff.

The GMC ones are nice, it lets you risk willpower on combat rolls now.

[Hullu_Iivana]

The GMC ones are nice, it lets you risk willpower on combat rolls now.

You could always risk Willpower on combat rolls, GMC just lets you add one extra damage to successful attack.

[ghanjrho]

oh jesus wat

Conceded that chainsaws in 2e are nothing like chainsaws in 1e or RL.

For what it's worth, 2e chainsaws are intended to represent
1) chainsaws in fiction
2)any large, unwieldy two-handed melee weapon (such as an executioner's axe)

[SiuiS]

You could always risk Willpower on combat rolls, GMC just lets you add one extra damage to successful attack.

The notes I can find actually say "usually no on combat rolls and not on any non-physical rolls", so I see where they're coming from.

The new version is an enhanced form of taking a dramatic failure. It's much swingier than just "oh I failed? Lemme fail really bad for XP". I had some thoughts on it as it integrates or reflects other systems, but they are inchoate. I'll have to straighten that out and articulate it if I can.

[Hullu_Iivana]

The notes I can find actually say "usually no on combat rolls and not on any non-physical rolls", so I see where they're coming from.

The new version is an enhanced form of taking a dramatic failure. It's much swingier than just "oh I failed? Lemme fail really bad for XP". I had some thoughts on it as it integrates or reflects other systems, but they are inchoate. I'll have to straighten that out and articulate it if I can.

What notes are you using? Risking rules in Hunter corebook are quite explicit. Roll directly relating to Vigil are permitted and examples include stealth rolls against monsters, breaking to their homes, resisting powers and attacking monsters. And risking failure rules were the same before Mortal Remains, now you just get Practical Beats instead of Practical Experience. The results haven't changed; hilarity still ensues when you fail risked roll (Tactics have pretty horrible results for Dramatic Failures).

[SiuiS]

Combination memory and google search. I'm moving so a lot of my actual resources are drastically unavailable for access.

I should note the change isn't "they get XP" it's that there is a second XP pool which can only be used to go et better at being a hunter. It's basically introducing Arcane XP into a mortals game, at this stage.

As for dramatic failures, since I don't think I'll be using any actual tactics so much as letting them buy merit dots in "do something cool" a la pack tactics, and since I like the GMC set up of dramatic failures being dramatic instead of ungodly terrible punishments for no raisin, I think it'll go smoother than before.

[Kiero]

I have the kernel of an idea for a completely un-supernatural (ie not set in the WoD) techno-thriller game using the nWoD system. In a similar vein to the likes of 24, Bourne, (new) Bond, Spooks, Strike Back and so on.

8/6/4 Attributes and 13/9/5 Skills. The three skill categories are renamed Operations (Mental), Tactical (Physical) and Covert (Social). Everyone would start out with bonus levels in a minimum Skill package, which doesn't cost any resources to purchase, covering things like: Academics 1, Computers 1, Investigation 1; Athletics 1, Brawl 1 or Firearms 1, Drive 1; Empathy 1, Intimidation 1 or Subterfuge 1, Socialise 1 or Streetwise 1.

[One Tin Soldier]

Good news everyone!

If you remember back to about halfway through the last thread, Xallace and I were working on a fansplat, Dragon: the Inheritance. We've continued to work on it since, and now we feel that is is close enough to completion to make a proper thread for it in the Homebrew section. It's evolved a good amount since then (we're up to about 80 pages of material now), so if you were interested then you should go check it out!

[Blackhawk748]

Good news everyone!

If you remember back to about halfway through the last thread, Xallace and I were working on a fansplat, Dragon: the Inheritance. We've continued to work on it since, and now we feel that is is close enough to completion to make a proper thread for it in the Homebrew section. It's evolved a good amount since then (we're up to about 80 pages of material now), so if you were interested then you should go check it out!

Wait, wait, wait... Your telling me i can be a Dragon? An honest to gods Fire Breathing, Building Breaking, Godzilla Fighting Dragon? I am so in.

[Almarck]

This is the second time dragons have been the subject of a major fansplat. If you're interested there's another project that seems to keep going on and off by. It's pretty well developed. Look up Dragon the Embers if you're interested. I am not the guy who worked on it but I recomend it though it's the subject of so many revisions.

Regardless I'll look in on your project Tin..... Pony Soilder. I need go think of an easy way to refer to you instead of writing out your whole name. I feel Tin might work bit I dunno. How do you feel about it?


On the subject of fansplat my personal favorite is Leviathan which has you playing a lovecraftian sea monster with Summerian mythology baked right in. It basically with the right set up allows you play Godzilla.

[One Tin Soldier]

Wait, wait, wait... Your telling me i can be a Dragon? An honest to gods Fire Breathing, Building Breaking, Godzilla Fighting Dragon? I am so in.

That is correct. Have fun! Though the biggest an Heir can get is about the size of a pleasure yacht.

This is the second time dragons have been the subject of a major fansplat. If you're interested there's another project that seems to keep going on and off by. It's pretty well developed. Look up Dragon the Embers if you're interested. I am not the guy who worked on it but I recomend it though it's the subject of so many revisions.

Regardless I'll look in on your project Tin..... Pony Soilder. I need go think of an easy way to refer to you instead of writing out your whole name. I feel Tin might work bit I dunno. How do you feel about it?


On the subject of fansplat my personal favorite is Leviathan which has you playing a lovecraftian sea monster with Summerian mythology baked right in. It basically with the right set up allows you play Godzilla.

Oh, we know about Embers. One of the reasons we started Inheritance was because we were dissatisfied with Embers as a Dragon game. It's pretty different, all things considered.

And people usually call call me OTS for short.