Dragon Age Inquisition V: Hard in Hightown

[Morty]

I prefer the Bow of the Beresaad because it looks better - simpler, without any weird lights. In any case, I'll finish Descent and then see what I have when it's over.

[Morty]

Well, I finished the main plot. Corypheus went down embarrassingly quickly, despite the difficulty being Hard. I guess level 22 was too high. I'll fool around some other places before diving into Trespasser. Maybe kill some more dragons.

Also, some impressions from Descent. I liked it, even though the combat got repetitive. The lore bits were very interesting, if frustratingly vague.

Spoiler

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Combined with Dagna's ramblings after she experiments on Fade-stuff, it seems the dwarves were joined with the Titans in some sort of hive-mind. Then the titans went to sleep. Why?

Also, I'm willing to bet that the dwarven caste system is a relic of the time when they were workers in the Titans' bodies.

[Anteros]

I agree that Cory was an extremely disappointing final boss. I killed him before he was 1/4th of the way through his monologue on my first playthrough. I had to go back because I actually wanted to see what he had to say.

[Morty]

Yes, he only managed to taunt Cole before I beat him.

[Giggling Ghast]

Ah yes, the Cory fight is a bit of a letdown compared to the battle he put up in DA2. I expected to be fighting through way more demons. But at least the party was fun.

Regarding the Titans:

Spoiler

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Trespasser indicates that the ancient elves warred on the Titans. That may have caused the dwarven race to split in two.

BTW, here's something silly and nug-related:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6BL9lzpYnE

[Morty]

Spoiler: Dwarves, Titans & Trespasser

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Yeah, I just saw the hidden fresco in the Deep Roads. Mythal and other elves struck down the Titan. They wanted lyrium and something else. But they got more than they'd bargained for. Maybe it has something to do with Darkspawn. Solas did mention that if he hadn't created the Veil, the Enuvaris would have destroyed the world. Maybe they unleashed the Blight, which Solas quarantined in the Fade.

I finished the whole DLC. I liked it. The choice at the end is difficult and rife with implications - I chose to preserve the Inquisition, but I don't think I like the Chantry controlling it. Solas is set up as the next game's antagonist, and the Inquisitor has a good reason for taking a back seat. Also, the two fights against the Sarebaas were actually challenging enough for me to turn down the difficulty from Hard to Normal.

One curious thing about that is Qunari mages being apparently more powerful than human and elven ones. Even without snorting lyrium until they float. That's surprising, but it fits a theory by a friend of mine, who believes the race might be a result of a Tevinter breeding experiment with dragon blood. It'd also make their mages' rarity about the only disadvantage they have against the south, except pure numbers.

Solas himself is... well. That he didn't think of those around him as people when he woke up doesn't speak well of him. I know he eventually changed his mind, but it's basically "Yes, I see that even you magic-less practically-Tranquil are actual real people". Not cool.

It does suggest that before the Veil was created, everyone was a mage, and the Enuvaris were just orders of magnitude more powerful than any others. Dwarves were probably cut off from the Fade already at that point, whatever their exact relationship with the titans. What about humans? I don't think we have a clue.

[Giggling Ghast]

Spoiler

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Interestingly, Corypheus will comment to a qunari Inquisitor that "your race is not even a race. It is a mistake." Old God Kieran will also say that your blood is not your own and Iron Bull offers the theory that qunari have dragon blood. The mosaics also seem to point to the qunari once being slaves to the Old Gods

My own theory is that the Old Gods were once the deities of the qunari. But the qunari rejected them and took a very anti-theist stance with the Qun. The Old Gods in turn sought out the primitive humans that eventually formed the Tevinter Imperium.

[Dienekes]

Spoiler: Dwarves, Titans & Trespasser

Show

Yeah, I just saw the hidden fresco in the Deep Roads. Mythal and other elves struck down the Titan. They wanted lyrium and something else. But they got more than they'd bargained for. Maybe it has something to do with Darkspawn. Solas did mention that if he hadn't created the Veil, the Enuvaris would have destroyed the world. Maybe they unleashed the Blight, which Solas quarantined in the Fade.

I finished the whole DLC. I liked it. The choice at the end is difficult and rife with implications - I chose to preserve the Inquisition, but I don't think I like the Chantry controlling it. Solas is set up as the next game's antagonist, and the Inquisitor has a good reason for taking a back seat. Also, the two fights against the Sarebaas were actually challenging enough for me to turn down the difficulty from Hard to Normal.

One curious thing about that is Qunari mages being apparently more powerful than human and elven ones. Even without snorting lyrium until they float. That's surprising, but it fits a theory by a friend of mine, who believes the race might be a result of a Tevinter breeding experiment with dragon blood. It'd also make their mages' rarity about the only disadvantage they have against the south, except pure numbers.

Solas himself is... well. That he didn't think of those around him as people when he woke up doesn't speak well of him. I know he eventually changed his mind, but it's basically "Yes, I see that even you magic-less practically-Tranquil are actual real people". Not cool.

It does suggest that before the Veil was created, everyone was a mage, and the Enuvaris were just orders of magnitude more powerful than any others. Dwarves were probably cut off from the Fade already at that point, whatever their exact relationship with the titans. What about humans? I don't think we have a clue.

Now I didn't play Trespasser, only watched one playthrough of the good bits.

Spoiler

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I took Solas' comments to mean that once all elves were magical. That's why they were the highest and mightiest of the races and why he has such a low opinion of every other race which he reveals if you talk to him in certain ways. The elves were all magical and the elven gods were the most magical of them all, and used their abilities to basically be the biggest evil buggers in the world.

And for some reason Solas is trying to bring all that back. Good on you, Solas. You dumb racist bastard.

[Archpaladin Zousha]

The flavor for Spirit Healers is confusing me a bit. Do they bargain with multiple spirits as the need arises or stay bonded with one particular spirit?

Wynne is the first Spirit Healer we meet, and how she became one is obvious and explored in conversations with her: the Spirit of Hope is bonded to her.

Anders is a bit more confusing. He IS bonded to Justice in DA 2, but in Awakening he starts as a Spirit Healer with little explanation as to why.

And what about PC Spirit Healers? There's a headcanon that many like using that the Warden Spirit Healer's bonded spirit is the Spirit of Valor from the Magi Origin, but where exactly does that leave Hawke?!

[Morty]

Spoiler

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Interestingly, Corypheus will comment to a qunari Inquisitor that "your race is not even a race. It is a mistake." Old God Kieran will also say that your blood is not your own and Iron Bull offers the theory that qunari have dragon blood. The mosaics also seem to point to the qunari once being slaves to the Old Gods

My own theory is that the Old Gods were once the deities of the qunari. But the qunari rejected them and took a very anti-theist stance with the Qun. The Old Gods in turn sought out the primitive humans that eventually formed the Tevinter Imperium.

Spoiler

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Those comments are the basis for the theory, yet. It seems very likely Qunari have something to do with dragons, one way or the other.

And it's certainly possible that the Old Gods are responsible for their creation, without Tevinter involvement. Corypheus would know about it from Dumat.

Now I didn't play Trespasser, only watched one playthrough of the good bits.

Spoiler

Show

I took Solas' comments to mean that once all elves were magical. That's why they were the highest and mightiest of the races and why he has such a low opinion of every other race which he reveals if you talk to him in certain ways. The elves were all magical and the elven gods were the most magical of them all, and used their abilities to basically be the biggest evil buggers in the world.

And for some reason Solas is trying to bring all that back. Good on you, Solas. You dumb racist bastard.

Spoiler

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That all elves had magic before the Veil is clear enough, yes. But were there other races at the time? We know dwarves were around, as part of the Titans in some way. But all the records of the world before the Veil conspicuously lack humans. The Evanuris ruled over the elven people, but there's nothing about them enslaving humans, or doing anything to humans at all.

And yes, trying to bring it back would be a terrible idea even if it weren't going to destroy the world. I guess Solas just isn't willing to live with the consequences of what he did.

[Giggling Ghast]

World of Thedas (which admittedly based on old lore) says humans arrived in Thedas about 250 years before the elves started noticing they were no longer immortal. The Dreamers made contact with the Old Gods about 50 years after that.

Spoiler

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Honestly, I think it goes like this:

Elves rule supreme over Thedas. They conduct holy wars and enslave each other at different intervals. At some point, they war on Titans.
Solas creates Veil, sealing away gods. Elven civilization begins to decline.
Humans show up. They are much more adaptable to a low-magic setting than elves.
With aid of Old Gods, Tevinter forms and conquers remnants of elven civilization.
As slaves, elves forget much of their history and blame those dirty shems for the loss of their immortality.
And you know the rest.

[Morty]

That sounds like a part of the inaccurate version of elven history, though. I imagine we may well find out in the next game.

Spoiler

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Apart from that, though, the timeline does look about right. I think the Old Gods orchestrated the rise of Tevinter specifically so they would eventually breach the Veil.

On another note, I suspect that the game's restriction of four active abilities at a time is going to get worse when I play a mage. And it looks like my hope to bypass the ridiculous language-lock will be in vain.

[Anteros]

The flavor for Spirit Healers is confusing me a bit. Do they bargain with multiple spirits as the need arises or stay bonded with one particular spirit?

Wynne is the first Spirit Healer we meet, and how she became one is obvious and explored in conversations with her: the Spirit of Hope is bonded to her.

Anders is a bit more confusing. He IS bonded to Justice in DA 2, but in Awakening he starts as a Spirit Healer with little explanation as to why.

And what about PC Spirit Healers? There's a headcanon that many like using that the Warden Spirit Healer's bonded spirit is the Spirit of Valor from the Magi Origin, but where exactly does that leave Hawke?!

I just headcanon it that once Wynne learned the spells from her spirit, others were able to mimic the ability. It's probably not correct, but it's enough for me to ignore the plot hole.

[Giggling Ghast]

As I understood it, spirit healers just summon spirits to aid them in healing; they don't need to be possessed to be one. Rhys from Asunder is a spirit healer.

[Inarius]

World of Thedas (which admittedly based on old lore) says humans arrived in Thedas about 250 years before the elves started noticing they were no longer immortal. The Dreamers made contact with the Old Gods about 50 years after that.

Spoiler

Show

Honestly, I think it goes like this:

Elves rule supreme over Thedas. They conduct holy wars and enslave each other at different intervals. At some point, they war on Titans.
Solas creates Veil, sealing away gods. Elven civilization begins to decline.
Humans show up. They are much more adaptable to a low-magic setting than elves.
With aid of Old Gods, Tevinter forms and conquers remnants of elven civilization.
As slaves, elves forget much of their history and blame those dirty shems for the loss of their immortality.
And you know the rest.

The World of Thedas stuff is pretty solid to go with. The lore of the game is mostly set in stone and has been since before DA:O launched. If a writer comes up with an idea they have to go and check the internal wiki to make sure it doesn't cause conflicts with existing lore before they're able to use it. I think thats part of the reason the DA series seems a little more coherent than the ME series despite switching protagonists every game.

On another note, I suspect that the game's restriction of four active abilities at a time is going to get worse when I play a mage. And it looks like my hope to bypass the ridiculous language-lock will be in vain.

I thought there were 8 active abilities even on consoles. Even with 8 though its way too tight of a fit. I tend to wind up dropping situational abilities like dispel and give them to my companions to use when necessary.

[Morty]

I'm playing on the PC, but I'm using a controller. If using a keyboard means I can have more slots, I'll do that. Eight is way too tight a fit, certainly, even when I was playing a rogue. I'm not sure if companions use abilities that don't fit in their active slots? That makes it easier for them, at least.

[Dienekes]

I'm playing on the PC, but I'm using a controller. If using a keyboard means I can have more slots, I'll do that. Eight is way too tight a fit, certainly, even when I was playing a rogue. I'm not sure if companions use abilities that don't fit in their active slots? That makes it easier for them, at least.

All I know is that I played on PC and I had way more than 4 abilities active. I think you get one for every number key, but I don't know for sure. I remember I didn't have enough to get every ability I wanted plus each prestige classes super move, so I just never did the super moves.

[Bashhammer]

On the 360, if you hold the left trigger the little icon thingy that shows your abilities flips over to show you four more slots. On a side note, WHY CAN'T US LAST GEN PLAYERS HAVE DESCENT OR TRESPASSER?!?!?!? *ANGRY NOISES*

[Inarius]

On the 360, if you hold the left trigger the little icon thingy that shows your abilities flips over to show you four more slots. On a side note, WHY CAN'T US LAST GEN PLAYERS HAVE DESCENT OR TRESPASSER?!?!?!? *ANGRY NOISES*

According to Bioware the last gen consoles arent powerful enough to handle the environments or number of baddies on screen. They had to choose whether to tone the DLC down or cut support for last gen and they chose the latter.

[Landis963]

According to Bioware the last gen consoles arent powerful enough to handle the environments or number of baddies on screen. They had to choose whether to tone the DLC down or cut support for last gen and they chose the latter.

And honestly, the sheer size of places like the latter 3rd of Descent or the Eluvian section of Trespasser kind of bear them out on that.

[Morty]

All I know is that I played on PC and I had way more than 4 abilities active. I think you get one for every number key, but I don't know for sure. I remember I didn't have enough to get every ability I wanted plus each prestige classes super move, so I just never did the super moves.

On the 360, if you hold the left trigger the little icon thingy that shows your abilities flips over to show you four more slots. On a side note, WHY CAN'T US LAST GEN PLAYERS HAVE DESCENT OR TRESPASSER?!?!?!? *ANGRY NOISES*

Yes, on a 360 controller there are eight slots in total. Unfortunately, a keyboard has the same number - 9 and 0 are bound to potions. Bugger. I guess I'll have to pick carefully.

[Anteros]

And honestly, the sheer size of places like the latter 3rd of Descent or the Eluvian section of Trespasser kind of bear them out on that.

I feel like you probably shouldn't model DLC for a game as more system intensive than the game itself. Especially with the EA model of locking half their plot behind the DLC. Otherwise you have people buying games and not being able to play through the full plot.

I have a pretty good computer, so it doesn't necessarily effect me, but it's still not a model I want to support.

[Dienekes]

I feel like you probably shouldn't model DLC for a game as more system intensive than the game itself. Especially with the EA model of locking half their plot behind the DLC. Otherwise you have people buying games and not being able to play through the full plot.

I have a pretty good computer, so it doesn't necessarily effect me, but it's still not a model I want to support.

There's a lot of things with DLC that I find reprehensible business practices. And while EA hasn't reached capcom levels of putting already finished stuff on the disc behind paywalls they're generally still not good

[Morty]

Descent isn't bad, I think, since it's a side-area without relevance to the main plot. It has some interesting lore that may become important later, but that's it. Trespasser, on the other hand... is basically the actual ending to the game. So that's not very classy.

[BRC]

Descent isn't bad, I think, since it's a side-area without relevance to the main plot. It has some interesting lore that may become important later, but that's it. Trespasser, on the other hand... is basically the actual ending to the game. So that's not very classy.

Trespasser is simultaneously the actual end to the game, and a less-interesting side-story. Which makes it bad on two fronts.


It's bad because, rather than end the story properly within the main game, they put the real conclusion in a DLC epilogue, AND because they tied that plot to a random, barely-connected, largely inconsequential, side-story.

Spoiler: Spoilers for Trespasser

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So, The BIG thing is we learn about Solus and the old Elven civilization, and with that the truth about how Corypheus got the Orb and what Solus was trying to do AKA the things that motivated the actual plot of the game.

But, that was basically told to us VIA exposition dump, meanwhile we ran around fighting Renegade Qunari Soldiers in a rather inconsequential side-story. These were "Renegades", so it's not like they represent the Qunari's decision to invade Thedas again. They're just mooks to kill and a plot to foil.

On top of all that, the big twist/reveal of the whole thing was spoiled by the DLC's trailer.

So, you (The player) spent all game being expositioned at, while killing things as part of an isolated side-story with no real connection to the rest of the story, doing an inconsequential political plot that all comes down to an angry declaration you make at the end, regardless of what you do during the five minutes you spend dealing with the Exalted Council, all waiting for the game to tell you what you already know: that Solas is the dread wolf, and is behind everything.

[Psyren]

I'm confused though - how else are they going to add a later ending to an already finished game except through DLC? Would you folks have preferred waiting for a sequel? And voice actors/animators don't work out of the goodness of their hearts, they need to be paid.

I hesitate to use words like "entitled," but I'd much rather pay for good content than get mediocre content (read: voiceless slideshows) for free. If you really want all the new story content for free, that's what Youtube is for.

[Dienekes]

I'm confused though - how else are they going to add a later ending to an already finished game except through DLC? Would you folks have preferred waiting for a sequel? And voice actors/animators don't work out of the goodness of their hearts, they need to be paid.

I hesitate to use words like "entitled," but I'd much rather pay for good content than get mediocre content (read: voiceless slideshows) for free. If you really want all the new story content for free, that's what Youtube is for.

I would like the actual main story to be finished in the actual damn game. No missing little bits I have to pay extra for just to actually see the story (example Leviathan and The Prothean from Mass Effect 3). If the big point of the entire game is that Solas is behind everything and he's the Dread Wolf, and he's trying to destroy the world, that should be in the game.

If however, you want to do a fun cool little side story, that you didn't have time for but it's just too awesome not to do (example Citadel from Mass Effect 3, or Lair of the Shadow Broker from ME2) go for it, more power to you.

[Anteros]

I'll second the notion that if it's plot critical it should be included in the game itself. The system they have now is like selling a book with the final chapter ripped out, and trying to sell you the last chapter at a mark up. It's ridiculous that the consumer puts up with it.

[Psyren]

The main story was finished; Corypheus was threatening the world, you stopped Corypheus. The Dread Wolf stuff didn't need to be fleshed out then, and likely would have been sparse and rushed had they tried to cram it all in without DLC, never mind what else they'd have had to cut. Bioware rushing things is exactly what we're trying to avoid going forward.

[Anteros]

The main story was finished; Corypheus was threatening the world, you stopped Corypheus. The Dread Wolf stuff didn't need to be fleshed out then, and likely would have been sparse and rushed had they tried to cram it all in without DLC, never mind what else they'd have had to cut. Bioware rushing things is exactly what we're trying to avoid going forward.

Bullcrap. They could have easily included the actual plot critical information in the game. It's like 5 minutes worth of actual relevant exposition. It's not like they were up against some sort of space limitation, and even if they were they should include it over other non plot related content.

They just know people will pay for it so they keep pushing the envelope on what they can get away with.