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Thread: Belkar Metagaming
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2015-03-13, 09:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Belkar Metagaming
Is it possible that Belkar is capable of/is metagaming within the comic? Specifically, after his whole spirit quest with Shojo and realizing that he could 'cheat' within the game of society, he may have applied it in a sort-of-meta way to the game world.
Evidence:
1) Belkar is willing to accept Roy's explanation for trusting Durkon before #945.
2) He becomes considerably more hostile to him post #945.
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2015-03-13, 10:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar Metagaming
Like fudging die rolls? I don't think that is possible since I don't think there are literal die rolls behind the curtain of the OOTSverse, so to speak. As for misinterpreting feats on purpose or ignoring pre-reqs? That's the kind of thing I'd expect to work in the early days of the comic, but not for quite some time.
Homebrew PrC: The Performance Artist
Avatar by Kymme
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2015-03-13, 10:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar Metagaming
To the contrary, I distinctly remember Durkon mentioning Vaarsuvius rolling a Natural 2 on his attempt to Dispel Nale's Suggestion on Belkar. Also the rogue who attacked Haley saying he "rolled mostly 6's, too." So they appear to exist, though they almost certainly won't be the driving force for any plot the big man Rich puts in place.
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2015-03-14, 05:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar Metagaming
Eh, I don't think there are literal dice being rolled. I think in OOTS verse, if you have a +10 to attack and the enemy has 20 AC, you have a flat 50% chance to hit them. But there aren't literal dice being rolled anymore so there's nothing to fudge. The probability is inherently built in.
Homebrew PrC: The Performance Artist
Avatar by Kymme
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2015-03-14, 08:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar Metagaming
I don't think that Belkar became all that much more hostile to Durkon after the news of what Durkon was was revealed. Even if he has, I think that's more readily explained by the fact that he had several days to grow to dislike the new Durkon even more.
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2015-03-14, 11:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
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- In the Playground, duh.
Re: Belkar Metagaming
Oh come on, V metagames horribly in the first comic. OOTS wouldn't be OOTS if it had a functioning fourth wall, either in a game sense or a comic sense.
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2015-03-14, 01:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar Metagaming
Homebrew PrC: The Performance Artist
Avatar by Kymme
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2015-03-14, 01:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
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- In the Playground, duh.
Re: Belkar Metagaming
Sure, Haley would never have in-character knowledge about spell resistance, and it's not like Elan would take any more knowledge (webcomics) checks, right? I mean, surely, Rich would never put in a random gnome who knew the numerical save bonus granted by the vest of resistance, or worse still, have Haley mention the comic in the comic, right? And he certainly wouldn't have Elan and Haley discussing the comic layout, right?
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2015-03-14, 02:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: Belkar Metagaming
And it's not like Elan knows how much time it takes for the comic to update, right?
Metagaming (or "metacomicing", as the case may be) has been the norm in OOTS for a long time.
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2015-03-14, 02:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar Metagaming
Okay, let's slow down there with the sarcasm, jeez. Yes, knowledge of the game mechanics is built into the world, I know that, give me credit that I am not a complete moron, okay? I'm talking about the context of the thread, where Belkar is fudging the rules to be more competent somehow. I was acknowledging yes, that sort of thing would have been perfectly in line with the early comics, but I don't think it would happen anymore.
Homebrew PrC: The Performance Artist
Avatar by Kymme
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2015-03-14, 05:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
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Re: Belkar Metagaming
I concur. Belkar's ability to win a fight is already dependent on the Giant's desire for a specific outcome in the fight. For something plot relevant to be decided by "Belkar can arbitrarily break the laws of reality sometimes" would be rather jarring at this point, especially since Rich has plenty of other tools at his disposal that don't involve creating problems in the future.
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2015-03-15, 11:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar Metagaming
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2015-03-16, 07:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar Metagaming
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes. (W.Whitman)
Things that increase my self esteem:
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2015-03-16, 09:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
Re: Belkar Metagaming
Belkar can metagame, but not always successfully.
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2015-03-16, 11:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
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Re: Belkar Metagaming
Indeed. I would like to point out though that the Diamond thing didn't actually solve an otherwise insurmountable problem, it just saved them the time it would take V to plane shift a couple times and grab a diamond. As soon as Rich opens that can of worms with Belkar and combat though, every time he doesn't crush his opponent, people will be asking "Why didn't he do X, when he was capable of it before?"
“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
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2015-03-16, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Belkar Metagaming
It also solved a problem that only occurred on the same strip. The lack of diamonds was not a long-term problem that had been plaguing the Order for multiple strips. Durkon had already acquired the required diamonds. The only reason they were stolen was to allow Rich to include the 4th-wall-breaking joke of Haley stealing the diamond from herself, and to provide another situation where V's Ultimate Arcane PowerTM was again unnecessary.
Last edited by Lord Torath; 2015-03-16 at 12:04 PM.
Warhammer 40,000 Campaign Skirmish Game: Warpstrike
My Spelljammer stuff (including an orbit tracker), 2E AD&D spreadsheet, and Vault of the Drow maps are available in my Dropbox. Feel free to use or not use it as you see fit!
Thri-Kreen Ranger/Psionicist by me, based off of Rich's A Monster for Every Season
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2015-03-16, 03:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: Belkar Metagaming
Yeah, if Belkar could literally "fudge" die rolls, I don't think he'd still be consistently fluffing every. Single. Saving throw.
I'm reasonably sure he's not 'metagaming' in any meaningful way. There are good in-comic reasons why he (alone) knows not to trust the HPoH."None of us likes to be hated, none of us likes to be shunned. A natural result of these conditions is, that we consciously or unconsciously pay more attention to tuning our opinions to our neighbor’s pitch and preserving his approval than we do to examining the opinions searchingly and seeing to it that they are right and sound." - Mark Twain
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2015-03-16, 03:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Last edited by Killer Angel; 2015-03-16 at 03:51 PM.
Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes. (W.Whitman)
Things that increase my self esteem:
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2015-03-18, 07:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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Re: Belkar Metagaming
Metagaming is perhaps a bit strong a term, but I do think he was always been the most genre-savvy character in the Order Besides Elan.
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2015-03-27, 05:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2015
Re: Belkar Metagaming
Coincidentally, there is an answer to this in the comc where Belkar starts that trick: "I thought we weren't actually representing a game camping, we were just living in a world where the laws of_" So yeah, i'm not sure Belkar is able to Metagame if they're not in a game but rather in a world with Laws Of (presumbley) Physics that resemble a game.
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2015-03-28, 07:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2012
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- Cambridge UK
Re: Belkar Metagaming
I'm pretty sure everything is moving at the speed of plot, at a rate of plot plots per narrative.
S&P is a comic I draw that's not as popular as this one.