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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Riding a floating disk.

    Can't people ride a floating disk? It was forbidden in earlier editions, but seems to be allowed now. The spell description says that it maintains a set distance from you "if not otherwise directed", which certainly seems to say it can move at its caster's direction if they want it to. And looking at the rest of the desc, it's a good strategy:

    A floating disk can hold up to 100 pounds per caster level. At level 2, it can hold most casters; at higher levels it can carry a bunch of extra gear and loot in the process.

    It moves at "a rate of no more than your normal speed each round." So, while you're riding it, you can use the disk to move your normal speed instead of spending your move action.

    The disk cannot "more than 3 feet away from the surface beneath it." Note the wording there--it just needs a surface beneath it, not one anyone could walk on. A floating disk can carry you over the surface of water, over a field of lava, over caltrops and grease, etc. You won't trigger traps on the ground, either. If you want to get sneaky, you could put a weight on the end of a long roll of cloth, throw it across a gap, and use your disk to carry you over that 'surface.'

    It lasts 1 hour / level. At higher levels you can easily keep it for most of the day.

    Finally, if you are damaged, paralyzed, or otherwise incapacitated, your disk can still move, pulling you to safety or over to the cleric for healing. If someone else in your party is injured, you can switch places with them after the fight is over to transport them easily.

    Granted, it's not a mount, and it's certainly not a fast flying mount, but it can go places mounts can't. It can navigate any surface short of a sheer vertical cliff with ease, at your full movement speed.

    And there's another trick in here, too: You can cast it for other people. Now, in that case they have to stay in Close range of you (or at least leave their disk in close range), but there's still potental here. They use your normal speed, so if you have a higher movement speed than them (either because you're a fast race, or because they're a heavily-armored fighter), they're getting sped up for one hour / level by a 1st level spell, plus being able to float next to an enemy and make a full attack, plus all the bonuses mentioned above. That's a pretty good effect for 1st level.

    Even if you say they have to make balance checks to stay standing on it when fighting (which is not at all obvious--it's three feet in diameter, after all), a fighter could still take a 5-foot step off of it and make a full attack, while a caster can just sit crosslegged on it and zoom around.

    What do you think?
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2007-04-10 at 05:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    Yeah. You'll need a balance check though, probably...eh....20 DC or so.

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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    Seems reasonable, actually. though I wouldn't use it often, I think your idea on the water and lava makes total sense, I probably wouldn't have thought of that.

    My DM would love you for that, if you pulled it off? Seriously, he loves inventive use of spells more than any person I've seen... not an exaggeration.

    ...I might possibly steal this strategy. Thank you.

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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    There was something similar on the forums just a bit ago...

    Found it. The Floating Hole!!
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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    There's a spell in the Spell Compendium called Floating Disk, Greater, that functions like Tenser's Floating Disk but allows you to ride it. It's level four. Given that WoTC put out a higher-level spell to do that specific thing, I'm guessing they don't intend Tenser's to allow you to ride it.
    Last edited by Tellah; 2007-04-10 at 05:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    I think that other people can ride it, but the wizard can not.

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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    "it maintains a constant interval of 5 feet beetween itself and you" so other people could ride it, but not you.

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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    You can't direct a disk to move. It can only accompany you as you move, or remain still. So no hovering around. Plus it stays within 3ft of the GROUND. Moving it further (like by forcing it to follow you over water) cancels it if your DM is nice, or it follows the bottom and dumps all your gear into the water, if he is mean. That being said, I have let casters pole themselves along the ground with their quarterstaves. More out of a desire to avoid stepping in dog crap than tactical maneuvering.

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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    This debate has been done before...

    The consensus is you *can* ride it, and the definition of 'ground' is negotiable with your DM. If you want to mince words, 'following you around' - you're sitting on the edge of the disk. Your but is 1 foot forward of the center of the disk. It's following your butt. Deal.

    I've used it to carry a party along a floating river, and to hover above 1 foot of watery ground. My gnome was *not* walking in that crap... especially after the paladin and the rogue were sucked under it by an unknown force...
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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    I've heard of using the floating disc to carry a wounded party member around. My interpretation of its movement is that it follows the Wizard around. So, if the Wizard isn't leading the way, the disc can't move.
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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    I quote the RAW

    The disk floats approximately three feet above the ground at all times and remains level. It floats along horizontally within spell range and will accompany you at a rate of no more than your normal speed each round. If not otherwise directed, it maintains a constant interval of five feet between itself and you.
    (Emphasis mine)

    There you go. You want to ride it, direct it.
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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    I'll quote the same RAW, with a different emphasis.

    The disk floats approximately three feet above the ground at all times and remains level. It floats along horizontally within spell range and will accompany you at a rate of no more than your normal speed each round. If not otherwise directed, it maintains a constant interval of five feet between itself and you.
    If I understand semantics correctly, and I believe I do, accompanying you cannot be done from underneath you.

    Riding it is entirely different from it following you.
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    Hmm. Easily solved. First, we'll construct a long wooden frame. It looks a bit like a flat, lightweight wagon bed, but with a roughly three-foot-diameter hole where you'd hitch the horse, as for a large, flat peg, and designed to support the whole weight on this area. Put it over the floating disk, with the floating disk securely in this hole. Now sit the wizard on the wagon bit behind it, five feet from the disk. The disk is now 'accompanying' them at the default distance. The rules plainly allow them to "otherwise direct" the disk, making it go more than five feet away from them, or less. So they direct it. It tries to move to its new relative position, causing the frame to move, causing the wizard to move. Presto! Free movement with a floating disk. Plus, once you're high enough level, the rest of your party can ride the frame, too. In fact, you could build a small lightweight house over the disk.

    I'm not sure whether they could turn, like this--they might just be able to set the disk's target distance, which wouldn't let it make turns normally. So the frame needs to be set up so the wizard can turn it with some sort of steering wheel, using the disk as an axle. It can always move forward or back on the axis defined by the wizard's position, so this will allow free movement.

    But we're not done yet. The disk can float; it just needs a 'surface' of some sort below it. So we add one more bit to the frame: A flat wooden surface, attached a foot beneath the disk. The disk can now fly at any height, since the surface beneath it will keep it from ever self-destructing.

    Now we need a way to make it faster. Well, the disk moves at our normal speed, right? If something changes our normal speed, that's the disk's new speed. So, we bring a horse onto the frame with us, and put it under the wizard. The wizard's "normal" speed in this situation is their riding speed--the speed of the horse. Therefore, the disk instantly becomes as fast as a horse, but with no ride skill required, and capable of flying, floating, and carrying 100 pounds per level (minus weight of wizard, horse, and frame.) A well-trained horse would likely be necessary to take full advantage of this.

    Now, instead of a horse, let's put a potential horse under the wizard. That is, we don't actually get a horse, but we consider the possibility. They could ride a horse everywhere, making that speed "normal" for them. The wizard's maximum normal movement is therefore now capped at their riding speed, since they could potentially hop onto a horse at any time and move the horse's distance. In fact, it's capped at the speed of the highest horse they could ride. The disk can move up to the limits of their 'normal' movement.

    In fact, at any given time, the person riding the disk could cast Expeditious Retreat to raise their normal movement by 30. As long as they decide to only move while under expeditious retreat, the boosted movement it grants is plainly their 'normal' movement--it's the only movement they use. That means that however fast the disk is capable of moving them (which is their 'normal' movement now, since it's what they use everywhere), they could be moving 30 feet faster than that, and therefore the disk could be moving 30 feet faster than that. So the disk is moving at NI speed, and can arrive anywhere on the plane (or on any plane that can be reached via movement) in one round. Note that at no point do they actually cast expeditious retreat--the mere potential to do so is sufficient.
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2007-04-11 at 03:01 AM.

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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    You seem to be forgetting a few things: Firstly, like spells don't stack. You could only get one Expeditious retreat, and that's from a lenient DM.
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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    Note that at no point do they actually cast expeditious retreat--the mere potential to do so is sufficient.
    I disagree with this... if the mere potential is sufficient, then there wouldnt be a limit on the things speed in the first place. Also, the spell doesnt say thier potential speed, it says thier normal speed.

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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    Straight from the Wizards website FAQ


    "Can you ride your own Tenserís floating disk?
    No. While you could command your Tenserís floating disk
    to move close enough for you to sit upon it, it has no ability to
    move under its own power. It can follow you only at a
    maximum rate equal to your normal speed."

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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaMullet View Post
    You seem to be forgetting a few things: Firstly, like spells don't stack. You could only get one Expeditious retreat, and that's from a lenient DM.
    Ack, I didn't state it right... I was tired. I'm not casting even one Expeditious Retreat. I'm not sure Expeditious Retreat is even necessary. It works like this:

    The disk moves at your 'normal' movement speed -- the speed that is normal to you.

    So, I decide that I will, from here on, only move while under expeditious retreat. That makes my 'normal' movement become 60. The disk's normal movement becomes 60. Then I decide that I will only move while under expeditious retreat and riding the cart attached to the disk. My 'normal' movement becomes 120. The disk's movement becomes 120. My normal movement becomes 180 (my 60 + the disk's new 120). The disk's movement becomes 180. And so on until the disk can reach any place on the plane in a single round.

    "Can you ride your own Tenser’s floating disk?
    No. While you could command your Tenser’s floating disk
    to move close enough for you to sit upon it, it has no ability to
    move under its own power. It can follow you only at a
    maximum rate equal to your normal speed."
    This confirms my plan above--you can order it close to you or far away from you. That's all you need to use it to power a cart or other contrivance.
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2007-04-11 at 12:17 PM.

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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    The disk floats approximately three feet above the ground at all times and remains level. It floats along horizontally within spell range and will accompany you at a rate of no more than your normal speed each round. If not otherwise directed, it maintains a constant interval of five feet between itself and you.
    The directing part only has to do with the fact that you can control the distance that it follows you.

    So:
    1. It can only follow you.
    2. The default distance that it follows behind you is 5'
    3. You can direct it to follow you at an interval closer than that.
    4. You can sit on it and float, but it won't move.

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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayabalard View Post
    The directing part only has to do with the fact that you can control the distance that it follows you.

    So:
    1. It can only follow you.
    2. The default distance that it follows behind you is 5'
    3. You can direct it to follow you at an interval closer than that.
    4. You can sit on it and float, but it won't move.
    So, in other words, you agree that it will attempt to move closer to or further from you if ordered.

    Now, what happens if you don't sit on it directly, but (for instance) attach a ten-foot-long board to it, and sit on this board, five feet from the disk--then order it to move to close to a distance of two feet from you, or six feet from you?

    Also. Could you place a large amount of stuff on the disk and use it for moving cover that follows you everywhere?
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2007-04-11 at 01:20 PM.

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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    ^^ Exactly. Hitch it up.

    Again, I don't understand why 'following you as directed is a problem.' I agree you cannot ride it, per se. You just constantly redirect it. Its directive is 'stay withing 1 foot of my nose.' Sit on it. Proceed to lean forward. Lo, it follows you! It's not your fault that it's under you, that's just a perk.

    You wouldn't claim a familiar on your shoulder is not accompanying you. Above, below, in front, behind, if you're both going to the same place it's all the same.

    @Aquillon: No, that's very silly. It moves at your speed. Your speed while riding the disk still equals your speed, so saying you can add your current speed with a potential speed (if the disk were moving) doesn't math out. I'd probably say you can move at Expeditious'd speed for the duration of that spell. 'Normal' would have to be a speed you can maintain.
    Last edited by Ditto; 2007-04-11 at 11:36 PM.
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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    The horse added you to it's inventory and it is the one with the higher speed not you. It isn't a move speed buff like in wow. Look for boots of striding and springing and similar things. And as for your attempts to argue for potential speed, that's a lame route to take. You should be arguing how fast the planet is spinning or how fast said planet is orbiting the star. Abusing relativity, THAT'S how you argue that your character has an awesome movement speed.

    And there is a much simpler way to ride it. Simply get a larger metal or wooden disk, whose radius is more than the distance the disk wants to maintain away from the caster, set it on top and use the other party members as a counterweight on the rear. As you move to the edge of the disk, just far enough to make it follow you, it scoots the party along at 30ft a round. Less cost and construction time than the cart idea.
    Last edited by BCOVertigo; 2007-04-12 at 01:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    Now, what happens if you don't sit on it directly, but (for instance) attach a ten-foot-long board to it, and sit on this board, five feet from the disk--then order it to move to close to a distance of two feet from you, or six feet from you?
    In my opinion, the same thing that happens when you sit on that board and try to push the disk physically. Nothing. Not because of physics, because this is magic and has nothing to do with science, but because the spell description + the FAQ quote mentioned elsewhere make it sound like the disk only moves as directed when it is not physically tethered to you. The physical tethering (such as the board) causes a magic-based situation that makes it so that the disk doesn't move. I'd view it as a magical equivalent to electical grounding.
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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    This sounds like Yoda.
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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    Here's what I do when someone asks me if they can ride their disk: "No. Sit down."

    It's worked so far.
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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fhaolan View Post
    ....the FAQ quote mentioned elsewhere make it sound like the disk only moves as directed when it is not physically tethered to you....
    I don't see anything about indirect physical contact. Nowhere in that faq quote nor in the spell description does it say that anything other than direct contact with the caster or coming too close cancels the 'following mode' of the disk.

    If you don't want to allow it in your game that's cool but by raw I don't see anything that makes attaching the disk to an object and indirectly propelling yourself fail to function so long as you don't allow the disk to come within the distance from you it is attempting to meet.

    I'm thinking of this like holding a carrot in front of a pack mule; so long as he never catches it he'll keep walking(pretend he's mindless and not lazy).

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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    Quote Originally Posted by BCOVertigo View Post
    I don't see anything about indirect physical contact. Nowhere in that faq quote nor in the spell description does it say that anything other than direct contact with the caster or coming too close cancels the 'following mode' of the disk.
    I also don't see anything about not using the disk as a battering ram or for slicing people off at the knees by directing it to move through occupied spaces.
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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    Personally, if I was DMing and one of my players brought this up, I would rule that WotC is wrong and that yes, you can indeed ride a floating disk. However, since it can only move your base speed per round, stuff such as expeditious retreat and other such things (including run actions) could not be undertaken by said disk. Therefore, it is *not* good in a battle situation, and only marginally better than a horse for long-distance travel.
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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    Oh, that's just petty. Rams and weapons have stats for using them as such. These are their stated functions. The disk's purpose is a means of carrying things. It has stats for using it as such. It does not preclude carrying persons, or oneself. That's all that was said.

    I'm sort of sad that I responded to that at length. Petty.

    EDIT @Enzario: Agreed. It's not meant for a particular combat advantage, as I see it. It's just for when you really don't want to touch the ground.
    Last edited by Ditto; 2007-04-12 at 09:10 PM.
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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    My thoughts on this is that when the Disc follows you, you are "towing" it along. It's like an invisible leash that is attatched to you, and you can call the disk or make it stay, and that's about it. if you move too fast the "leash" stretches because the disc can't keep up until it goes out of range and spills your treasure. Even though you are towing it, the weight doesn't affrect you because the disc effectively negates gravity and friction.
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    Default Re: Riding a floating disk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ditto View Post
    Oh, that's just petty. Rams and weapons have stats for using them as such. These are their stated functions. The disk's purpose is a means of carrying things. It has stats for using it as such. It does not preclude carrying persons, or oneself. That's all that was said.
    True, it was. And I apologize for that.

    However, somewhere buried in that was a point. I honestly believe that the intent of the spell was to produce a magical pack-mule, not to be a method of transportation. Hooking a sled to a floating disk to my mind is no different than building a steam engine powered by burning hands. Yes, as DM you can allow it, but you don't have to and no amount of player 'but it's reasonable!' explanations can force you into doing it. It's all magic afterall, and I can come up with all sorts of magical explanations for those things not working.

    I'm against it because it opens up cans of worms campaign-wise. As a player, and as a DM, I've been down this path before and neither time did it go good places. Allowing a floating disk/sled combination almost immediately led to two magic items with floating disk enchantments running off each other to create a rideable hovercraft. From there things went downhill fairly predictably.
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